Whips

[Calmar]

While building an evil hobgoblin thrall master, I noticed that the whip deals no damage against armoured foes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/whip). I can see the logic behind the notion that thick skin or clothing render you immune against lashes. But by the same logic, chainmail and better armour should make you virtually immune against light blades (for example, Saladin's men used maces to crack knights, because their swords were not effective).
With 1d3 damage, reach, its bonuses for combat maneuvers, and the Exotic Weapon Proficiency requirement the whip in my opinion should be still quite fine balanced, even if it would deal lethal damage.

My questions are: Do you think I overestimate whips? Would it be unfair to let them deal lethal damage?

[Psyborg]

See Whip-dagger from Arms & Equipment Guide (3.0, but unupdated). It's described as a blade- or spike-tipped whip, but for all mechanical intents and purposes it's a whip that deals lethal damage. And the best part? If you're proficient with whips, you're also automatically proficient with whip-daggers. Bards everywhere rejoice.

[Ozymandias]

It's an inconsistency in the system, honestly. Armor is supposed to be fully abstracted with +AC, and this is just a leftover piece of pseudo-realistic detritus. Just throw it out.

And whip daggers are just silly.

[Greenish]

If you're going to be a hobgoblin, have some hobgoblin pride and use a spiked chain!

[sonofzeal]

If you're going to be a hobgoblin, have some hobgoblin pride and use a spiked chain!
I fully endorse this idea. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y)

[Asheram]

Otherwise, there's the Lasher prestige class from Sword and Fist. A 3.0 book, but it's quite nifty.

[Calmar]

Thanks for the replies! :smallsmile:


If you're going to be a hobgoblin, have some hobgoblin pride and use a spiked chain!

Meh, common humans and goblins aren't that tough. He's supposed to motivate his work force, not to decimate them. :smalltongue:

[Land Outcast]

In this case, those things on the whip aren't knots but wire:http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/lifeochr/Image88a.GIF

[Kahlendrrari]

also if you look into "masters of the wild" there was the Nagaika (sp?) that was basically Simon Belmont's thorn whip, as this whip is studded through with glass, and there were rules for "mighty" versions of it

[Prime32]

The whip is useful if you have some form of Channel Spell... for attacking your allies to buff them.


Also, take a look at the Ranged ThreatDR350 feat. It does two things:

You threaten out to 15ft while wielding a ranged weapon
You can make AoOs with ranged weapons, but this uses up all your AoOs for the round.

Dual-wield a whip and a dagger (which can be thrown), and you now threaten out to 15ft with a whip. :smallbiggrin: Unfortunately the prereqs are steep (Combat Reflexes, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, BAB +6)

[Daftendirekt]

The whip is useful if you have some form of Channel Spell... for attacking your allies to buff them.

Yeah, the people in my game used to tell me about a player in a previous campaign that would send them Cure Wounds spells through the whip. The subdual damage he did to them was healed with the spell he hit them with!

[ericgrau]

The main part that annoys me is that by RAW lions are immune to whip damage.

I can see the logic behind natural armor more than manufactured armor because it covers every part of the body... except every monster in the world has a little natural armor and this way falls flat.

[Calmar]

Can a whip be used against adjacent foes, or must there be more space between the combattants?

[Daftendirekt]

Whip is right in the PHB, just look it up. However, whips dont threaten their 15' reach (you don't get to take AoOs) and using it counts as a ranged weapon, so you DO provoke.

[Calmar]

Ok, thanks. I wasn't sure if there wasn't a hidden rule somewhere, similar to those pole arms that may not be used against close enemies. :smallsmile:

[jpreem]

i think they have made whip too lousy of a weapon for an exotic one.
Only ones of core classes who get the proficiency are bards - and in core they are not melee monsters anyway so why not give them a little boost. (Or give a boost to some poor sucker who *gasp* spent a feat for whip proficiency.)
Removing this not-being-able-to-hurt anyone except butt naked humanoids would be the start.
Maybe to give an opportunity to do Aao-s also - that would make it an extremely useful area control weapon - trip around in 15' circle.
( This would maybe make it even too good - then it'll be a real competition for the almost only weapon every powerful core melee fighter uses - the spiked chain)