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View Full Version : Cheese or Genius: 'Buff Bombs?'



Legoman
2006-09-19, 04:35 PM
So, I was driving around today, and I had an idea.

Take rules for creating magical traps:



Touch: A touch trigger, which springs the trap when touched, is one of the simplest kinds of trigger to construct. This trigger may be physically attached to the part of the mechanism that deals the damage or it may not. You can make a magic touch trigger by adding alarm to the trap and reducing the area of the effect to cover only the trigger spot.

Magic Device Trap Cost

Building a magic device trap involves the expenditure of experience points as well as gold pieces, and requires the services of a spellcaster. Table: Cost Modifiers for Magic Device Traps summarizes the cost information for magic device traps. If the trap uses more than one spell (for instance, a sound or visual trigger spell in addition to the main spell effect), the builder must pay for them all (except alarm, which is free unless it must be cast by an NPC; see below).

The costs derived from Table: Cost Modifiers for Magic Device Traps assume that the builder is casting the necessary spells himself (or perhaps some other PC is providing the spells for free). If an NPC spellcaster must be hired to cast them those costs must be factored in as well.

Automatic Reset Trap:
Each spell used in trap:
+500 gp x caster level x spell level,
+40 XP x caster level x spell level


Now: Viola, our trap:

Legoman's Leet Longbow Lure
Spells used:
Alarm (Free)
Range: Touch.

True Strike (CL 1, Level 1 Spell)

Trap Type: Automatic Reset (Magical)
Cost: 500 gp, 40xp
Target: A small gem, placed in the grip of a longbow.

Translation:

Once your wizard gets to caster level 3, take the craft wondrous item feat. Spend 500 gp and 40xp for each weapon your party owns.

Have party press the trapped gem before each shot.

Never miss again.

Use with any spell combo you want.

Mage Armor + Shield.
Bull's Strength + Haste.
Mirror Image.
Invisibility

Jack_Simth
2006-09-19, 04:48 PM
Cheese, definately cheese. Guidelines, a command-word item of True Strike would cost 1800 gp... and that's considered broken, in and of itself.

For even more cheese, try a proximity trigger on the quiver; every time you reach in to pull an arrow..... and you can sell the bow later, with no problems.

Cheese. Definately cheese.

NullAshton
2006-09-19, 04:56 PM
Except for the part where traps are stationary, seems great! Maybe you could have a buff station inside your mode of transportation, for example...

The higher level spells, where it will really benefit the caster to not have to cast them, would get a lot more expensive.

So nothing broken, since it's stationary, and you just can't carry your wagon through the dungeon can you? (Or go inside it...)

martyboy74
2006-09-19, 05:11 PM
Except for the part where traps are stationary, seems great! Maybe you could have a buff station inside your mode of transportation, for example...

The higher level spells, where it will really benefit the caster to not have to cast them, would get a lot more expensive.

So nothing broken, since it's stationary, and you just can't carry your wagon through the dungeon can you? (Or go inside it...)
You trap your weapon.

Legoman
2006-09-19, 05:26 PM
Or, alternatively, your pocket.

Ikkitosen
2006-09-19, 05:28 PM
I've seen one shot glyph traps used to store cure spells, then scribed behind enemy barricades and such for on the spot healing, but nothing this cheesy!

PinkysBrain
2006-09-19, 05:56 PM
The trap is the caster ... personal range buffs aren't going to work. Still a cute trick though.

NullAshton
2006-09-19, 06:10 PM
Okay, yeah, you're going to put a trap on your weapon.

While we're at it, let's go ahead and put OFFENSIVE traps on the blade of our swords! A nice energy drain trap, for 2d4 negative levels every time you touch your opponent! Yippie!

Or, wail of the banshee, specially crafted so that the wielder is immune! Activate it on touch too! Woohoo, 27 DC save-or-die every time you thwack your opponent!

Nevermind the fact that a trap tends to be immobile, like in the roof.

As you can plainly see, traps were meant to be stationary, or mostly so. Like for example, a heavy chest. There's nothing wrong with a healing trap, like a 'buffing center' in your party's mode of transportation.

Emperor Tippy
2006-09-19, 06:21 PM
I'm thinking of the applications for the kings castle. Trap the top of the wall with this. Every 5 foot square now gives each person standing on it +20 to hit each and every round.

Zelc
2006-09-19, 06:23 PM
I'm thinking of the applications for the kings castle. Trap the top of the wall with this. Every 5 foot square now gives each person standing on it +20 to hit each and every round.
Heal is a good one too for that. And perhaps a high level anti-evil spell as well.

Wehrkind
2006-09-19, 06:30 PM
As you can plainly see, traps were meant to be stationary, or mostly so. Like for example, a heavy chest. There's nothing wrong with a healing trap, like a 'buffing center' in your party's mode of transportation.

You miss the point of "stationary". The trap itself does not move, but what it is attached to does. Obviously. Otherwise you couldn't cast it on anything, since everything is in motion relative to something else. That heavy chest can be picked up and carried around. The roof can be torn off in a storm. Both hurtle through space as they rotate around the sun and the planet's axis, etc.

So, yes, it works on spells that let you target other things (True Strike only works on the caster, so that is out.) Drain Life would give hit points to the sword, which doesn't make sense, but it could still deal damage. Essentially it is just poor planning in the game. Nothing new there, thought the particular loop hole was cleverly found.

NullAshton
2006-09-19, 06:31 PM
Yeah, so you're going to have to go in and out of the trapped area again to get the benefits.

...if you think that personal effect spells are game, I have something for you. It's called dimension door. And teleporting 400 feet or more into the bottom of a nearby volcano. BELOW THE MAGMA. Enjoy 20d6 every round while you get back up to the surface, no save.

Heal works fine, though. Though, why the heck would you do that? "Yeah, I spend billions of gold pieces making healing stations on the walls so that my level 2 fighters can instantly heal themselves..."

And besides, this is for PLAYER CHARACTERS. Not NPCs. Player characters, you can just send them through a dungeon. People only go inside their mode of transportation/place to sleep away from the wind and rain after the encounters for the day. And what kind of cleric doesn't heal them with all remaining spell slots before sleeping? "Um... yeah... I didn't prepare any cure spells and I already used every single spell I had to nuke the enemy... sorry..." Byebye cleric. One of the balancing features of clerics, in fact, they actually HAVE to save spell slots because they have to heal the party...

Emperor Tippy
2006-09-19, 06:54 PM
Um the point of making the wall heal your troops is that it resets every round and goes off every round. So you have to 1 hit each and every guy to clear that wall.

Jack_Simth
2006-09-19, 07:08 PM
Well, one round them, anyway.

Turns south fast, though, if an opponent manages to end up on your walls.....

Zelc
2006-09-19, 07:30 PM
But if they're undead...

Actually, I think I have a better idea.

Automatically Resetting Magical Trap (Pointy Stick of Celestial Owl Spam)
Trigger: Detect Evil (500 gp)
Effect: Summons 38 Celestial Owls in a 3x3x4 block + 2 squares in front of the tip of the stick [Summon Monster I x38] (500 * 38 = 19000 gp)
Total Cost: 19500 gp and 1560 xp

CR: There's two CR components to this trap. First, the Summons are triggered by the Detect Evil, so they're treated as two different traps. The Detect Evil component has a CR of 1, and the Summons component has a CR of 10.

So, basically, when you don't want this to go off, you can keep it in a sheath made of 1 inch of metal. When fighting's going on, you can pull it out, and it'll summon 38 Celestial Owls per round to Aid Another. A medium creature on the ground has 16 squares contacting it (assuming there's a 5' cushion all around and it's in melee against a medium creature). With a 75% chance of hitting AC 10, the owls will grant an average of +24 to the next attack, or +24 to AC.

Oh, and 38 more owls are coming the next round. And the round after. And the round after that, and the round after that, and the round after that, and...


An alternative would be the following:
Gatling Gun of Anti-Evil
Trigger: Detect Evil (500gp)
Effect: 20x Magic Missiles at the nearest evil creature (10000gp)
Total Cost: 10500 gp and 800 XP

Get two of them, deal an average of 140 damage per round as a free action to the nearest evil creature. :D

Hileria
2006-09-19, 07:54 PM
The idea is pure cheese...

But the idea that it's cheese because traps don't move is pure bunk.

I submit, for your movable trap pleasure - Fire Trap. Castable on any openable object... such as the always popular target - A spell book. And they tend to get moved around quite a bit.

Still - it's a very cheesy idea. :)

Zelc
2006-09-19, 08:05 PM
And for a buff trap:

Sugar, Spice, and Everything Level 1 and 2 That's Nice
Automatic Reset, Rock
Total Cost: 45,000 gp (11250 per person if split 4 ways) and 3600 XP
Trigger: Touch
Effects, in the following order:
Bear's Endurance (3,000g)
Bull's Strength (3,000g)
Cat's Grace (3,000g)
Eagle's Splendor (3,000g)
Fox's Cunning (3,000g)
Owl's Wisdom (3,000g)
Darkvision (3,000g)
Spider Climb (3,000g)
Blur (3,000g)
Aid (3,000g)
Delay Poison (3,000g)
Lesser Restoration (3,000g)
Barkskin (3,000g)
Cure Light Wounds (500g)
Protection from Chaos (500g)
Protection from Evil (500g)
Protection from Good (500g)
Protection from Law (500g)
Shield of Faith (500g)
Hide from Undead (500g)
Hide from Animals (500g)
Enlarge Person [Fort save DC12] (500g)
Reduce Person [Fort save DC12] (500g)
Endure Elements (500g)
Remove Fear (500g)


For comparison, an item of +4 enhancement to a stat costs 16000.

Moral of the story: DMs should not allow PCs to mess with trap creation.

PinkysBrain
2006-09-20, 11:15 AM
Strange that they bothered to have a good balancing factor for mechanical traps, the CR being a pricing multiplier, which they completely left out for magic traps.

Rejakor
2007-04-16, 10:18 AM
That's cause its magic, silly!

Also, I would totally do this, but i'm the most experienced player in a group of newbies, and they wouldn't understand why it was funny.

h2doh
2007-04-16, 10:28 AM
And for a buff trap:

Sugar, Spice, and Everything Level 1 and 2 That's Nice
Automatic Reset, Rock
Total Cost: 45,000 gp (11250 per person if split 4 ways) and 3600 XP
Trigger: Touch
Effects, in the following order:
Bear's Endurance (3,000g)
Bull's Strength (3,000g)
Cat's Grace (3,000g)
Eagle's Splendor (3,000g)
Fox's Cunning (3,000g)
Owl's Wisdom (3,000g)
Darkvision (3,000g)
Spider Climb (3,000g)
Blur (3,000g)
Aid (3,000g)
Delay Poison (3,000g)
Lesser Restoration (3,000g)
Barkskin (3,000g)
Cure Light Wounds (500g)
Protection from Chaos (500g)
Protection from Evil (500g)
Protection from Good (500g)
Protection from Law (500g)
Shield of Faith (500g)
Hide from Undead (500g)
Hide from Animals (500g)
Enlarge Person [Fort save DC12] (500g)
Reduce Person [Fort save DC12] (500g)
Endure Elements (500g)
Remove Fear (500g)


For comparison, an item of +4 enhancement to a stat costs 16000.

Moral of the story: DMs should not allow PCs to mess with trap creation.

:smallconfused: Enlarge and reduce? that seems pointless.

Rejakor
2007-04-16, 10:46 AM
Make the Fort save for the one you don't want - i.e. want to be bigger? make the DC 12 fort save for the reduce person spell. Want to be smaller? make the DC 12 fort save for the enlarge person spell. Fail the save? Try again next round.

Artemician
2007-04-16, 11:29 AM
This reminds me of the "Stimpacks" that one of my friends drew up for a joke game session.

Basically, it was a collection of fine arrows of Spell Storing arranged in the form of a jab. He dumped his spare spells of the day into them, and when he needed them, he would just poke himself.



Ah... that's the stuff

Ilmryn
2010-07-26, 11:54 AM
Another fun thing to do with traps:
Trap spells such as fire trap or explosive runes theoretically have infinite stacking; since they last until triggered you could put it an infinite amount of times on the same object. And the only cost is spell slots.
Cast Explosive Runes on a rock a few hundred times, and you have an item that will utterly destroy anything(that isn't an epic/divine being with an insane amount of hitpoints) within a 10-foot radius when activated...

gbprime
2010-07-26, 12:03 PM
And for a buff trap:

Sugar, Spice, and Everything Level 1 and 2 That's Nice
Automatic Reset, Rock
Total Cost: 45,000 gp (11250 per person if split 4 ways) and 3600 XP
Trigger: Touch
Effects, in the following order:
Bear's Endurance (3,000g)
Bull's Strength (3,000g)
Cat's Grace (3,000g)
Eagle's Splendor (3,000g)
Fox's Cunning (3,000g)
Owl's Wisdom (3,000g)
Darkvision (3,000g)
Spider Climb (3,000g)
Blur (3,000g)
Aid (3,000g)
Delay Poison (3,000g)
Lesser Restoration (3,000g)
Barkskin (3,000g)
Cure Light Wounds (500g)
Protection from Chaos (500g)
Protection from Evil (500g)
Protection from Good (500g)
Protection from Law (500g)
Shield of Faith (500g)
Hide from Undead (500g)
Hide from Animals (500g)
Enlarge Person [Fort save DC12] (500g)
Reduce Person [Fort save DC12] (500g)
Endure Elements (500g)
Remove Fear (500g)


For comparison, an item of +4 enhancement to a stat costs 16000.

Moral of the story: DMs should not allow PCs to mess with trap creation.

This is why Reciprocal Gyre is always in my spell book. :smallamused:

gbprime
2010-07-26, 12:06 PM
I did do something like this to the players once. They were trying to get through a fortified wall blocking off a narrow cave mouth, and the defenders on top had a reusable trap they could hit which gave them Protection from Arrows and False Life. Nasty little choke point for a 6th level party, but they got it and HELD it. Boy did they appreciate that reusable False life later.

Being PC's they tried to take the flagstone with the glyph in it. they lost it later when their boat sank. It was too heavy for their bag of holding. On purpose. :smallamused:

Telonius
2010-07-26, 12:18 PM
Sounds like Warlocks with Voracious Dispelling just got a whole lot more dangerous ...

EDIT: Apparently someone triggered the threadomancy trap (resetting every year). I'm not sure whether or not it's weirder that I didn't notice that, or the fact that I remembered that "stimpack" idea two years later...

Yucca
2010-07-26, 12:24 PM
Of course your character making an automatically resetting True Strike trap attachable to your weapon (or any of the other traps mentioned in this thread) could end up blowing the "Gentlemen's Agreement" out of the water.

If one of my players showed me something like this, I'd immediately start humming "Anything you can do, I can do better".

Foryn Gilnith
2010-07-26, 12:32 PM
I'm thinking of the applications for the kings castle. Trap the top of the wall with this. Every 5 foot square now gives each person standing on it +20 to hit each and every round.

Wait...
Is this thread from 2006 the seed for the Tippyverse?

Sinfonian
2010-07-26, 02:32 PM
It would seem this thread has the dubious honor of having been necro'ed on two separate occasions.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-26, 02:45 PM
In the long run, spell turrets (DMG2) would be cheaper. You throw four different spells of different schools into one, which fire in sequence each round before resetting.

Roland St. Jude
2010-07-26, 03:16 PM
Sheriff of Moddingham: Thread Necromancy. Please don't.