Optimizing a Paladin / Sacred Prostitute

[Frozen_Feet]

Sacred prostitute is a PrC from Book of Erotic Fantasy, page 88. Suppose that I have, for some reason, decided to create a character centered around being this class and a goody-two shoes.

So... how to best use this kind of character in a party, and how to keep it relevant outside doing this and that? Party face / diplomancer is the obvious direction, but looking at greater detail than that. I'm pretty much asking for specific tactics at some spots of leveling (Levels 5, 10, 15 and 20 for example) like in the "Iron Chef" thread.

Requirements for Sacred Prostitute are: Bab +3, Cha 13, App 13, eight ranks in Diplomacy, Perform (Sexual technique), Profession (Prostitute), and Feat: Sexually Open Society. (Oh, and "must be willing to engage in sexual acts when asked", but that won't be a problem.)

Some specific questions and guidelines:


Allocation of stats: How would you allocate array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 12, 10, 8? How would you allocate stats with 30 point buy? How about 41 point buy?

Race: anything without LA will do.

Class:
Must have levels in some Good variant of Paladin. Otherwise, it doesn't matter much. Homebrew is allowed for these purposes if you've seen a very good version.
Must acquire all give levels of Sacred Prostitute, preferably by level 10 but by level 15 at latest.
Otherwise... go wild.


Other rules stuff: Up to two Flaws (from UA) allowed.

Sources: Anything in the SRD and BoEF is fair game, obviously. Other published D&D resources are also allowed, but I'd ask you to keep amount of additional sources required for any one build three or less.

Casting seems to be pretty much out, since SP eats away five levels and offers very little casting itself. (That said, I'll be impressed if someone finds a way to make it major part of the character). Trying to get Charisma to as many things as possible seems like a good way to reduce MAD.

So... help me please (http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/1/27/pwettypwease128459099906108750.jpg). :smallredface:

[Mando Knight]

:smalleek:

...Ah... well...
...I would go with the Paladin of Freedom. That way you don't have to deal with the headache that is trying to be both ridiculously sexually promiscuous and a paragon of Law. (Normal Paladin gets Diplomacy, though, which makes the skill qualifications easier)

I would go with 4 levels of Paladin of Freedom to get Turn Undead (for Divine Feats)... the fifth level is optional, if you want a pretty pony and an extra Smite Evil 1/day.

After that, since the Paladin of Freedom lacks Diplomacy and Perform on its skill lists, go Rogue or Bard (your preference). Or, if you don't want to shore up skill points before you multiclass, start with one of them.

For races, I'd pick Human or Lesser Aasimar, off the top of my head. Possibly Half-Elf, though it lacks the free skill and feat of the Human or the +2 Wis/Cha-and-no-drawbacks of the Lesser Aasimar.

[Saint GoH]

:smalleek:

I would go with 4 levels of Paladin of Freedom to get Turn Undead (for Divine Feats)... the fifth level is optional, if you want a pretty pony and an extra Smite Evil 1/day.

I suppose a joke about a paladin mount would get me in trouble eh?

[MammonAzrael]

I hope this will be a suitably mature game.

A big problem is that the Sacred Prostitue casts spells as a bard. So, despite being mostly entered by clerics, and being a servant of a deity, it casts arcane spells. :smallconfused: I'd ask your DM to switch that to divine casting.

What god to you follow?

I'd recommend considering Vows of Nonviolence and Peace. If you do, a Merciful weapon is a must.

Church Inquisitor would be an interesting way to take the character. A Contemplative also works.

[Frozen_Feet]

I suppose a joke about a paladin mount would get me in trouble eh?

Nah, not really. It'd just make us very ashamed of you.

Paladin of Freedom would seem like a no-brainer, yes, but losing Diplomacy as class skill sucks. Starting with Bard 2 / PoF 3 would be a start, but I'm hazy as to how well that combination would do around level 5. I could get into SP after that and intersperse SP progression with... what? As far as single or two level dips go, what would be most useful between level 5 and 10? Another problem is what to do after to get the disparate parts to synergize - would it be possible to pull off some variant of the infamous Pervirtuoso from these roots?

As an aside, whoever thought Bards can't be lawful should be shot. Another build I see some potential with would be Bard / Cleric entering Prestige Paladin between levels of SP. The problem is that I can't imagine much use for the bard levels expect as source of skillpoints... is there some bardic PrC that isn't alignment-sensitive?


I hope this will be a suitably mature game.
Trust me, if I ever end up using this kind of character, I'll make darn sure I find the right game for it. Either suitably mature, or immature in a suitable way.


A big problem is that the Sacred Prostitue casts spells as a bard. So, despite being mostly entered by clerics, and being a servant of a deity, it casts arcane spells. :smallconfused: I'd ask your DM to switch that to divine casting.
That struck me as odd too. However, is there any potential benefit (read: exploitable loophole) for either quality?

What god to you follow?
That's completely open. I have some concept of what the personality of this kind of character would be, but I haven't thought of a deity to follow yet.

I'd recommend considering Vows of Nonviolence and Peace. If you do, a Merciful weapon is a must.

Church Inquisitor would be an interesting way to take the character. A Contemplative also works.
The first are from BoED I take, but where are Church Inquisitor and Contemplative from?

[Mando Knight]

Rogue gets the Perform skill as a class skill and doesn't have the silly "any non-lawful" restriction...

[MammonAzrael]

Yes, the vows are both from BoED. Nonviolence primarily boosts the DC of spells that don't deal damage or cause death by 4, and Peace gives you a handful of defensive and calming benefits. Both fit with a Sacred Prostitute.

Both the PrCs are in Complete Divine. Both offer full divine spellcasting progression, so your Paladin will be slinging some spells.

Church Inquisitor will require you to be able to cast Zone of Truth as a divine spell, which makes entry a bit delayed. You'll also have to be Lawful Good or Neutral. It grants several immunities and ways of divining the truth.

Contemplative actually seems like a great fit with Sacred Prostitute, as it seeks to become with the deity it worships. You gain bonus domains, immunity to diseases and poisons, slippery mind, self-healing, spell resistance, immunity to aging penalties and magical aging (though you still age and die), and becoming an outsider.

[Psyren]

I'd recommend considering Vows of Nonviolence and Peace. If you do, a Merciful weapon is a must.


Go with Nonviolence and kick Peace to the curb. You will fall for killing a bug. Accidentally.

[dsmiles]

...I would go with the Paladin of Freedom. That way you don't have to deal with the headache that is trying to be both ridiculously sexually promiscuous and a paragon of Law. Sexuality, in and of itself, has nothing to do with anything on the alignment scale. As long as he/she/it doesn't use his/her/its powers for evil, he/she/it should be fine. I don't see where the headache would come from...:smallconfused:

[Frozen_Feet]

I assume it would come from trying to convince a hypothetical GM to play nice with it.

Anyways, idea hit me. Is there a Domain for Cleric that grants Perform as class skill?

[dsmiles]

Maybe something in FR. Lemme check.

[Psyren]

I assume it would come from trying to convince a hypothetical GM to play nice with it.

Anyways, idea hit me. Is there a Domain for Cleric that grants Perform as class skill?

Just take the Sexual Training feat from the same book.

[kladams707]

I'm sorry to not add anything, but someone mentioned "turn undead" and I realized that w/ this PrC, that takes on a whole new meaning :D

[JaronK]

So, it casts as a bard? Does it progress Bard casting or just cast as a Bard? I need to know this before continuing... I mean, what all does this class give? And it's 5 levels, right?

If it continues bard casting, then the obvious choice is to do some sort of Divine Bard/PrC Paladin of Freedom thing. If it just gives some casting for 5 levels, something using Crusader would make sense.

JaronK

[dsmiles]

Didn't see any domains for Perform in FR. That's about all I can access at this time.

[Cruiser1]

Requirements for Sacred Prostitute are: Bab +3, Cha 13, App 13, eight ranks in Diplomacy, Perform (Sexual technique), Profession (Prostitute), and Feat: Sexually Open Society.
Must acquire all five levels of Sacred Prostitute, preferably by level 10 but by level 15 at latest.
A simple build that works is: Paladin 5 / Sacred Prostitute 5 / Paladin 10.

Since Sacred Prostitute has 5 levels, if you want all 5 by level 10, you need to take your first SP level at level 5, which means you need Diplomacy, Perform (Sexual technique), and Profession (Prostitute) as class skills from levels 1-5. Take the Feat "Pleasing Physique [Sexual]" from BoEF so Perform (Sexual technique) is a class skill. Standard LG alignment Paladin gives the other two as class skills.

From a RP standpoint (as well as making the build easier) I think it would be more interesting to combine Sacred Prostitute with the standard LG alignment Paladin. The Sacred Prostitute "is not a common streetwalker or tavern whore", but rather they "must believe that the 'client' is true in their desire to comune with their deity through the body of the sacred prostitute". In other words, they seem more Lawful than Chaotic to me, since sex is a sacred duty.

[Frozen_Feet]

Just take the Sexual Training feat from the same book.
I wonder how I managed to miss such an obvious choice. Still interested if there's such a cleric domain, though - it'd free up that feat for something else.

So, it casts as a bard? Does it progress Bard casting or just cast as a Bard? I need to know this before continuing... I mean, what all does this class give? And it's 5 levels, right?

If it continues bard casting, then the obvious choice is to do some sort of Divine Bard/PrC Paladin of Freedom thing. If it just gives some casting for 5 levels, something using Crusader would make sense.

JaronK
Just cast as a Bard. It lets you cast something like one spell per day (discounting bonus spells) from a very short list, up to level 3 spells.

The PrC gives you the ability to remove a long list of detrimental conditions (nauseated, sickened, fatigued etc.), restore ability damage, restore hitpoint damage, divine the future (as by Divination spell) remove curses and eventually restore lost spellslots (once per day)... by doing this and that with the patient for 20 minutes.

It also makes everyone less awkward around you if you have to talk about birds and bees.

Also get 6 skillpoints per level from halfway decent list.

[Psyren]

So, it casts as a bard? Does it progress Bard casting or just cast as a Bard? I need to know this before continuing... I mean, what all does this class give? And it's 5 levels, right?

It has its own casting progression (and a VERY limited list, though they do get Alter Self), which maxes out at 3rd-level spells. The "casts spells as a bard" makes them arcane, which means ASF factors in as well, and by RAW they also all have verbal components.

The other stuff I don't really see as worth writing home about, though 90% success-rate divination as a (Su) is nice even(?) if it does require 20 min. of sex first.

[DMfromTheAbyss]

I second including LG Paladin portion of the build. It gets you the skills and it certainly makes for interesting RP.

Just have to make sure the DM ok's a society/diety that doesn't equate law or good with being sexually repressed.

That being said paladin really is a weak class.. so cleric or bard, or something else might be needed to make this character really work in an "Optimal" fashion. It kinda depends what your looking to do for combat. Do you wanna be melee smite evil charger(paladin), buff/healer (sorta fits sacred prostitutes) or something else?

[Psyren]

Use Pathfinder Paladin; They are much stronger and Charisma-focused, giving them lots of synergy with the BoEF stuff.

[Khatoblepas]

Bard 3/Paladin 2/Sacred Prostitute 5/Sublime Chord 10

9th Level spells and all what you want in an elegant build. You only have a couple of weird 1-3 level spells, but that doesn't matter by the time you enter Sublime Chord.

Sacred Prostitute gets 3rd level spells, which qualifies them for SC. It's the crux of this build.

The wizard of the party will absolutely adore you.

[Frozen_Feet]

I second including LG Paladin portion of the build. It gets you the skills and it certainly makes for interesting RP.
Okay. I'm looking at PrC and PF Paladins for slightly more powerful version, but I'm not averse to starting with vanilla Paladin.


Just have to make sure the DM ok's a society/diety that doesn't equate law or good with being sexually repressed.
I'm not expecting that to become the main problem. If anything, I expect potential interaction between "a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters" and "must be willing to engage in sexual acts when asked" to be more problematic, but I have a few arguments thought out to tackle that if it ever comes up. :smallsmile:


That being said paladin really is a weak class.. so cleric or bard, or something else might be needed to make this character really work in an "Optimal" fashion. It kinda depends what your looking to do for combat. Do you wanna be melee smite evil charger(paladin), buff/healer (sorta fits sacred prostitutes) or something else?

Yes, that's why I started this topic. I see pretty off-the-wall Prestige and base class combinations thrown around on these boards as suggestions to fairly simple character concepts, so I hoped to utilize that creativity here too.

As for doing "something else"... I'm not entirely sure, and am asking for ideas exactly because. SP requires Diplomacy and synergizes with Charisma, so being the party face is the obvious role, but there isn't much in the class to utilize for combat. Buffer sounds good, but neither SP or vanilla Paladin offer much in that regard. That's why I asked about adding Bard to the mix earlier.

[Flame of Anor]

The wizard of the party will absolutely adore you.

And hey, if he wants to act on it... :smallamused:

[Psyren]

And hey, if he wants to act on it... :smallamused:

Then you can't say no or you lose your class features. Hopefully you're in the mood.

[Khatoblepas]

Then you can't say no or you lose your class features. Hopefully you're in the mood.

Technically, you only have to say yes if they ask. If they demand it, you can say no.

Now, would you kindly refresh my spells?

[Frozen_Feet]

Then you can't say no or you lose your class features. Hopefully you're in the mood.

Duty over-rides these "moods" you speak of. Besides, for him/her to get any benefit from it, s/he has to play nice anyway. So it is hardly a problem.

[stainboy]

"Must engage in sensual acts when asked" could be a problem no matter what class you are. If you're a paladin it's worse, but it doesn't really matter because if the DM wants to make your life hell with that requirement your character will be unplayable regardless.

You: You've burned last orphanage, Count Grimdark! Prepare to face justice!

Count Grimdark: Would you please perform a sensual act which must be left to the imagination on a PG-13 board, but suffice to say would occupy both hands as well as your mouth? Also, I remind the table that speaking is a free action and may be performed out-of-turn.

You: Not again!


You may as well assume that if you're playing the character at all, the DM won't use the RP requirement to screw you (badum ching).

[Frozen_Feet]

"Must engage in sensual acts when asked" could be a problem no matter what class you are. If you're a paladin it's worse because you can lose class features, but if the DM doesn't houserule some qualifiers onto that you're not a functional character.

You: You've burned last orphanage, Count Grimdark! Prepare to face justice!

Count Grimdark: Would you please perform a sensual act which must be left to the imagination on a PG-13 board, but suffice to say would occupy both hands as well as your mouth? Also, I remind the table that speaking is a free action and may be performed out-of-turn.

You: Not again!

You may as well assume that if you're playing the character at all, the DM won't use the RP requirement to screw you (badum ching).

Point first: SP can't complete their duty in a hostile situation.
Point second: it's well within the limits of SP class and Paladin's code to make it so that the situation is peaceful for the act, and both participants are safe. (What did you think the Use Rope skill is there for, huh?)
Point three: SP is Cha-dependant, has Diplomacy as class skill, and, with things to be found in BoEF, can get modifiers out the wazoo into it in a situation like that. Surely, they can negotiate a workable solution.
Point four: SP is a vessel for the divine energies of a deity of love. We all know love is just the thing villains with freudian excuses need to start on their path to redemption. So anything that actually happens can be written off as trying to redeem the villain, which is (per additional source books) fine and dandy for a Paladin. Punishing the wicked can come afterwards, or even happen during the process.


Sure, the character could fall. I'm obviously not thinking of a character like this without being prepared for it. Atonement exists for a reason, afterall. However, I've never had this legendary Paladin-hating GM come my way yet, and I'm not letting this hypothetical boogieman deter me from trying to make the character. :smallwink:

[Cieyrin]

I can't offer much in the way of build advice except to mention the Faerunian Goddess of Love, Sune, can have normal Paladins despite her alignment being CG, which seems like it would play well with both Pally and SP. :smallsmile:

[stainboy]

I've never had this legendary Paladin-hating GM come my way yet, and I'm not letting this hypothetical boogieman deter me from trying to make the character. :smallwink:

Exactly my point. A paladin-hating DM would also be a SP-hating DM and by extension a paladin-entry SP hating DM. So don't sweat the conflict between SP and the Paladin's Code, because any DM who would make you fall from SP/Paladin would also make you fall from SP by itself.

Sorry if that wasn't clear. I wasn't trying to dissuade you from making the character.

[Quietus]

I hope this will be a suitably mature game.

A big problem is that the Sacred Prostitue casts spells as a bard. So, despite being mostly entered by clerics, and being a servant of a deity, it casts arcane spells. :smallconfused: I'd ask your DM to switch that to divine casting.

What god to you follow?

I'd recommend considering Vows of Nonviolence and Peace. If you do, a Merciful weapon is a must.

Church Inquisitor would be an interesting way to take the character. A Contemplative also works.

Church Inquisitor Sacred Prostitute... I don't know whether this is wonderful or terrible, but I want to make one anyway. :smalleek:

[MammonAzrael]

Church Inquisitor Sacred Prostitute... I don't know whether this is wonderful or terrible, but I want to make one anyway. :smalleek:

They would have a very different approach to the "good cop/bad cop" routine.

[JaronK]

It seems to me like Sublime Chord would be a natural end to this build... so why not finish out with that?

JaronK

[Noneoyabizzness]

[LIST]
So anything that actually happens can be written off as trying to redeem the villain, which is (per additional source books) fine and dandy for a Paladin. Punishing the wicked can come afterwards, or even happen during the process.

For some reason a sune paladin/sp and ln priest of lovitar combo of redemption and punishment just popped into my head. too many buddy cop films and porn as of late.

[Quietus]

They would have a very different approach to the "good cop/bad cop" routine.

Possibly both in one, depending on his or her specialties... ugh. I'm finding myself thankful I no longer have access to BoEF, or I'd have to draw up a character sheet right now.

[Frozen_Feet]

It seems to me like Sublime Chord would be a natural end to this build... so why not finish out with that?

Yup, saw it suggested earlier and got myself a copy of Complete Arcane to use it. Unfortunately, bro hijacked it, so I've only managed to skim it yet.

One unoptimal thing I noticed was that while Perform (Sexual) fills for prereqs, the clause that says it can only be used in peaceful situations makes it a bit unsuitable for Bardic music. Would it be worth it to spend points on another Perform skill, or is there a trick that could be used to get around it?

[dsmiles]

You know, FF, if you went Paladin of Tyranny (unless SP requires good alignment), I could see this working out much like an Honored Matre from the later books of the Dune series...interesting...

[Frozen_Feet]

Good paladin. Good. Aiming for a "Hooker with Heart of Gold", not "Hooker with Heels of Tempered Steel". :smalltongue:

[dsmiles]

"Hooker with Heels of Tempered Steel".You've just given my players reason to fear brothels. :smalltongue:

[MammonAzrael]

She keeps heels of adamantine, silver, and cold iron around for special guests, too. :smallwink:

[Frozen_Feet]

You've just given my players reason to fear brothels. :smalltongue:

I take it you haven't let your players read BoEF, eh? That should've given them plenty reasons. :smallbiggrin:

[Mando Knight]

I take it you haven't let your players read BoEF, eh? That should've given them plenty reasons. :smallbiggrin:

And then they'll always make sure there's a Sacred Prostitute around, since the campaign is going strictly Bring-Your-Own-Harlot.

[dsmiles]

I take it you haven't let your players read BoEF, eh? That should've given them plenty reasons. :smallbiggrin:Nah. My current group is a couple of new gamers. They're not ready for BoEF yet. :smalltongue:

[stainboy]

One unoptimal thing I noticed was that while Perform (Sexual) fills for prereqs, the clause that says it can only be used in peaceful situations makes it a bit unsuitable for Bardic music. Would it be worth it to spend points on another Perform skill, or is there a trick that could be used to get around it?

Bardic music is weird. Most uses just require a certain number of ranks in Perform, but they're not Perform checks. Having 3 ranks in Perform (Lute) doesn't give you the ability to inspire allies by playing a lute. It gives you the ability to inspire allies, period. It's the same dodge that bards who play instruments use to Inspire Courage with both hands occupied and barbarian/bard gishes use to maintain Inspire Courage while raging.

So you would have the same Inspire Courage, Competence, Greatness, Freedom, and Heroics abilities as any other bard. You can't use Fascinate or Suggestion in combat anyway so no problem there. The only ability where you *might* run into problems is Countersong, and you could even make an argument that Countersong doesn't specify a type of Perform check so you can use any Perform specialization with it at any time.

[Cieyrin]

Yup, saw it suggested earlier and got myself a copy of Complete Arcane to use it. Unfortunately, bro hijacked it, so I've only managed to skim it yet.

One unoptimal thing I noticed was that while Perform (Sexual) fills for prereqs, the clause that says it can only be used in peaceful situations makes it a bit unsuitable for Bardic music. Would it be worth it to spend points on another Perform skill, or is there a trick that could be used to get around it?

Versatile Performer (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Versatile_Performer) would provide you with alternative Performs if you'd rather expend a feat over skill points.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

First of all, use the Harmonious Knight (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) substitution levels for Paladin. It works with all the paladin variants, as long as you get Detect [alignment] at will, you get Perform as a class skill, and you can pick up some abilities that are far more useful than what you trade out. For example, you could get a Badge of Valor (MIC) and learn Inspirational Boost (SC) via your prestige spellcasting, assuming it uses the Bard spell list, and grant a +3 with Inspire Courage for almost no investment. You could go with a Dragonblood race such as Silverbrow Human from Dragon Magic, and pick up Dragonfire Inspiration to instead grant +3d6 fire damage to allies' attacks.

Bards in my group typically inspire by whistling. Whistling.

[Cieyrin]

Bards in my group typically inspire by whistling. Whistling.

Halfling Whistler? (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20061121a) :smallbiggrin:

[Frozen_Feet]

Versatile Performer (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Versatile_Performer) would provide you with alternative Performs if you'd rather expend a feat over skill points.
Hehehe. That feat might not be all that good from an optimization viewpoint, but it's really delicious from a roleplaying viewpoint. Thanks.


First of all, use the Harmonious Knight (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) substitution levels for Paladin.

That'd potentially allow me to swap one poor feat for a more useful one, but otherwise doesn't give me anything I wouldn't get otherwise. I'm hazy about Milil, but adapting the substitution to other settings with other gods should be fairly easy.

[paddyfool]

Okay. I'm looking at PrC and PF Paladins for slightly more powerful version, but I'm not averse to starting with vanilla Paladin.


One more version to suggest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33551): its modular vow system allows your character to commit to something that actually fits them. (Just ignore the "Skill sets" and "Prowess" bits, and go for the standard Pally skill list).

[Cieyrin]

Hehehe. That feat might not be all that good from an optimization viewpoint, but it's really delicious from a roleplaying viewpoint. Thanks.

The combine performance clause would certainly be interesting from an RP standpoint for this character. :smallwink:

[Frozen_Feet]

The combine performance clause would certainly be interesting from an RP standpoint for this character. :smallwink:

Beatstick: "Hey, where did our bard and wizard go?"
Skillmonkey: "They're in the next room. Said they had some private stuff to take care about."
Beatstick: "... is that singing I hear? What are they doing?"
Skillmonkey: "Dunno. Maybe they're having a karaoke contest?"

[balistafreak]

http://www.myspacefx.net/import/graphics/Funny_Graphics_and_Pics/lol-cats_i-love-this-thread-so-much.jpg

[Frozen_Feet]

One more version to suggest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33551): its modular vow system allows your character to commit to something that actually fits them. (Just ignore the "Skill sets" and "Prowess" bits, and go for the standard Pally skill list).

That's a good variant. I'll prolly make a variant build using it after I'm done with one using vanilla Paladin. Though I most definitely would not ignore skill sets, as the customisation they allow would make skill point allocation a bit easier. XD

[Jack_Simth]

It seems to me like Sublime Chord would be a natural end to this build... so why not finish out with that?

JaronK

Yep - fairly straightforward, even - Paladin of Freedom-2/Bard-3/Sacred Prostitute-5/Sublime Chord-10. Charisma to saves (Paladin of Freedom), Charisma-based spellcasting, workable in light armor.

[balistafreak]

The combine performance clause would certainly be interesting from an RP standpoint for this character. :smallwink:

Brings new meaning to that old pick-up line, "We can make beautiful music together!"... or something like that, anyways. :smallbiggrin:

[Frozen_Feet]

Ending with Sublime Chord is pretty much settled now. My plan is to start with Bard to crop up more delicious skill points, though. Using SRD Paladins, pick between vanilla Pally and Pally of Freedom is pretty much a matter of taste.

Using Fax's variant, probably taking Mage & Bard skill sets. I'm at loss with what mantle to choose, as most of them would require more Pally levels to really kick in. Honor, Temperance and Valor seem like they would retain most usefulness.

Race is human, cause you can't really go wrong with that. Stats are 8 Str, 12 Dex, 12 Con, 14 Int, 10 Wis, 15 Cha and 13 App. It should be fairly safe to put all score increases to Cha.

Feats: Sexually Open Society at 1st, trying to bribe GM to give me Nymph's Kiss as human bonus feat, Versatile performer at 3rd. Eyeing Snowflake Wardance as a way to pull my weight in close combat. Leaving Vows from BoED alone for now - the character has enough roleplaying restrictions as-is, benefits gained from them hardly seem to outweigh narrowing my options even more. Don't have many ideas for feats beyond level 6, though, outside meta-magic feats and Leadership.

After entering Sublime Chord, will likely focus around buffs and debuffs. Does anyone have a handy link to SC handbook etc., for help with picking good spells? Odd nature of the character's low-level casting leaves a few good spells outside reach (Glibness from core, Beauty's Caress from BoEF), but UMD should be able to cover for those.

[Half-Orc Rage]

I'm starting to think of Phedre from the Jacqueline Carey books, a prostitute that serves a higher cause and saves the kingdom

[Thefurmonger]

I just wanted to say this is the FIRST thread about the BOEF that didn't make me want to cry.

In fact this character sounds so cool I think I'll go grab a PDF and give the book another read (I'll just try to avaid all the art, Even a thread made of win like this can't make me look at that art...)

[Cieyrin]

Nymph's Kiss is Exalted, btw, so keep that in mind if you're worrying about RP restrictions.

As for Sublime Chord handbooks, I can't find one, so I'd look into Wizard handbooks for spell selection, since SC draws from the Wizard list.

[*.*.*.*]

Leadership

Warblade/harem protector? lol

[Frozen_Feet]

Nymph's Kiss is Exalted, btw, so keep that in mind if you're worrying about RP restrictions.


They aren't that bad for the particular feat. [Exalted] tag in itself only means that willingly committing evil deeds makes you lose their benefits until you Atone, and you need to convince the DM to allow them. Nymph's kiss itself just requires having intimate relationship with a Good Fey... which should not be a big problem for somewhat obvious reasons.

[elonin]

There is plenty of paladin hatred out there; including dm's who are very strict on the paladin code of ethics. Someone who dm'd a group that I was a part of insisted that my paladin had to act like a hippie with his honor requirements.

And later in your build I'll recommend the class divine voice. Not sure about name of the class but it makes you the representative of your deity. Well in other ways than just SP.

[Urpriest]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned the last Iron Chef competition, featuring as it did two (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10175580&postcount=151) different (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10175594&postcount=152) Vow of Poverty-based prostitutes.

[Chuckthedwarf]

Pro-tip (and I'm sure quite a few people have already said it):
Being Lawful doesn't mean being for vanilla monogamous marriage, etc.

You can be lawful and have one night stands every day, as long as you specify that this is a one night stand only and nothing else. As long as you don't **** with people's heads while at it, you're perfectly lawful and might even be a paladin.

More on topic, sounds like a fun plan. I'm not familiar with the PrCs from that book even though it's absolutely hilarious to read through.

[The Glyphstone]

I just wanted to say this is the FIRST thread about the BOEF that didn't make me want to cry.

In fact this character sounds so cool I think I'll go grab a PDF and give the book another read (I'll just try to avaid all the art, Even a thread made of win like this can't make me look at that art...)

Hey, I'm crying. Tears of laughter, but still.:smallbiggrin:

[paddyfool]

Using Fax's variant, probably taking Mage & Bard skill sets. I'm at loss with what mantle to choose, as most of them would require more Pally levels to really kick in. Honor, Temperance and Valor seem like they would retain most usefulness.


I hadn't considered that. I'd feel that Honor (or Temperance if you're using ranged attacks) might about the most useful, particularly as your Cha should be good and high. Valor (and Diligence) meanwhile offer classic Pally abilities which you may not want to be without... but a lot depends on what you want your character's beliefs to be.

[Eurus]

This talk about singing prostitutes with hearts of gold reminds me of a song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4873mPdm1Ro&playnext=1&list=PLA363BD6BEAF86334)...

I will never be able to think of Dolly Parton in the same way again.

[Frozen_Feet]

I hadn't considered that. I'd feel that Honor (or Temperance if you're using ranged attacks) might about the most useful, particularly as your Cha should be good and high. Valor (and Diligence) meanwhile offer classic Pally abilities which you may not want to be without... but a lot depends on what you want your character's beliefs to be.

Temperance feels like the best bet, both RP and Crunch-wise. With low Str and low BAB, standing back-to-back with a dedicated Archer (or caster using ranged attacks) while keeping distance to enemies and peppering them with arrows seems like a good tactic before SC casting starts to kick in. Archer Cohort is a potential use for Leadership, even, if my potential DM can stomach the feat.

(Potentially a Good Fey archer, to link back to Nymph's Kiss feat and character background.)

Considering how feat intensive archery is and how low my Dex is going to be, taking Archer feats with the actual character prolly won't be worth it, though. Looking at "X to Y stat" thread, there's an item called Songbow, though. With my limited uses of Bardic Music, would such item be a worthy / possible investment for levels 5 to 10?

[megabyter5]

You're missing the most important part of optimizing an SP. The most important class feature you have is the ability to completely recharge the spell slots of the party caster, so to optimize yourself, you need to optimize the spellcaster. What you need is someone who can cast high level spells, but without that many spell slots. If it weren't for the pesky alignment issues, the obvious choice would be Ur-Priest. But since that's out of the question, I suggest Elf Generalist Wizard (RotW) and Metaphysical Spellshaper (BoEF 81).

[MammonAzrael]

You're missing the most important part of optimizing an SP. The most important class feature you have is the ability to completely recharge the spell slots of the party caster, so to optimize yourself, you need to optimize the spellcaster. What you need is someone who can cast high level spells, but without that many spell slots. If it weren't for the pesky alignment issues, the obvious choice would be Ur-Priest. But since that's out of the question, I suggest Elf Generalist Wizard (RotW) and Metaphysical Spellshaper (BoEF 81).

You don't need someone with low spell slots. You just need to ensure the caster takes high level spells that can be abused outside of combat. :smallsmile: And make sure you worship Mystra or Boccob.

[Adrayll]

Could someone go dig out the Pervertuoso thread? I think that could be relevant here.

EDIT: Nevermind, found it. Pervertuoso (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167278&) This was a perform(sex) based bard build thrown around a while ago. It starts getting built about 3-4 pages into the thread if i remember right.

[Frozen_Feet]

Yes, I thought of pervirtuoso too. I *think* you could make an alternate build with Paladin 2 / {arcane base class} 3 / SP 5, venturing into some mix of Sublime Chord and Virtuoso. How would Sorcerer do for the arcane base class? I'm also not sure how Virtuoso spellcasting increases should work with SC. (~_~;;)

[Necrus Philius]

{Scrubbed}

[Frozen_Feet]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}
Fixed your typo. :smallwink:

You think I'd even think of building such character if I didn't see some allure in playing it? :smallwink:

Besides, charity for homeless and destitute would fit the character perfectly well. All they need is to be wise enough to ask. The Sacred Prostitute isn't required to take initiative. It's also well within Paladin ethos, considering the nature of the class.

[Jayabalard]

Pro-tip (and I'm sure quite a few people have already said it):
Being Lawful doesn't mean being for vanilla monogamous marriage, etc.

You can be lawful and have one night stands every day, as long as you specify that this is a one night stand only and nothing else. As long as you don't **** with people's heads while at it, you're perfectly lawful and might even be a paladin.Yes and no. Being lawful also means that you honor tradition... if your society's tradition is vanilla monogamy, being openly against that falls on the non-lawful side of the spectrum.

That doesn't really apply here at all though, since the character in question is taking the feat "sexually open society".

[Frozen_Feet]

SP is Prestige Class for a reason. They're not common whores. It goes alongside with the class that it has a special role and position in society; many problems only exist if you forget the "sacred" part. Depending on specifics of the setting, it's very reasonable to argue that normal social rules don't apply to them.

[Jayabalard]

Depending on specifics of the setting, it's very reasonable to argue that normal social rules don't apply to them.Actually, the normal social rules do apply... they're just not the same rules as for other people.

Note: I was just disagreeing with Chuckthedwarf's over-generalization, since there are cases where not going with vanilla monogamy = non-lawful behavior.

[The Cat Goddess]

I can't believe that everyone ignored just getting Human Paragon for level 1. Gets you all the Class Skills you will ever need.

As an added bonus, you can later get levels 2 & 3 to progress your spellcasting.

[0Megabyte]

You know, if I ever, ever wrote a D&D novel, this character is in. No question, the Paladin/Sacred Prostitute is totally in. It would just be too cool. Granted, she'd have to be part of an ensemble to not seem like a gimmick, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Imagine a novel where a formerly chaotic evil Daring Outlaw decided to go Lawful Good to protect the world from that which threatened to destroy it (and him, keep in mind.) He gathers together a group consisting of himself, our paladin/sacred prostitute, a borderline insane loremaster savant, a young, slightly deranged and giggly summoner girl with a giant humanoid eidolon, a fighter/barbarian who gained a terrible rage after losing everything, and a dwarf cleric of The Toady One, who equals out to happy because he saw his hometown destroyed, but he also just ate in a fantastic dining room. This ragtag and eccentric band of heroes might even succeed specifically because of the help of the paladin. (The Heart as well as the Lancer. Go figure.)

(And yes, the characters would basically be Max Daring, a non-sociopathic version of Panty, The Laughing Man, Ilya, Guts and a Dwarf Fortress dwarf.)

I thought this up all just now.

[Frozen_Feet]

You know, if I ever, ever wrote a D&D novel, this character is in. No question, the Paladin/Sacred Prostitute is totally in. It would just be too cool. Granted, she'd have to be part of an ensemble to not seem like a gimmick, but there's nothing wrong with that.


Hey! Don't steal my ideas! :smalltongue::smallbiggrin:

[megabyter5]

I only recognized the Dwarf Fortress guy. I've never even heard the names of those other ones. But he can't be a cleric, because magic hasn't been implemented yet. I'd suggest Urist McAxedorf, female Axedwarf, wearing eight pairs of socks and using her newborn baby as a shield. Her axe is a cat-bone artifact. The craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It menaces with spikes of adamantine. The handle is made of adamantine. On it is a carving of cheese.

[Frozen_Feet]

I take "non-sociopathic Panty" is reference to Panty from Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt? It's funny you thought of her, since she was on my mind too (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10371772&postcount=240)when I came up with this character concept. :smallbiggrin:

[Callista]

Paladin of Sune or another god/dess of love, depending on which world you're in. And yes, you can use a Lawful paladin.

Many of these gods will be CG; but check to see if they have paladins--some CG deities do. This helps with the Lawful angle, too, because obviously a chaotic deity isn't going to demand too much of a lawful paladin--a deity of love will probably demand honorable/chivalrous behavior that is more like kindness and dependability than strictness. It also helps offset the "monogamy is traditional" issue because the deity's wishes would supersede tradition.

If you're going to have a Lawful character who is a prostitute or has multiple one-night stands, then they need to be absolutely up-front with their clients, establishing the terms of their relationship beforehand. They're doing this to spread pleasure. They probably like to make their clients happy (in more ways than one). If they're a paladin of a god of love, chances are they will also have the authority to marry a couple; and they may easily function as marriage counselors, sex therapists, and possibly healers dealing with STDs, birth control, and pregnancy/delivery. A Lawful character who worships a god of love will not just stop at the one-night stands and the pleasure; he'll also be wanting to support people who are in committed relationships, help them build families, etc. And he can be depended on never to do anything that will tear a couple apart. Quite a useful person to have around...

[dsmiles]

Paladin of Sune or another god/dess of love, depending on which world you're in. And yes, you can use a Lawful paladin.

I really think Sharess would fit better, but I don't think she has paladins. At least not the lawful types.

[BadJuJu]

I suppose a joke about a paladin mount would get me in trouble eh?

Unless you're gaming in Tijuana...

[Triaxx]

For shame. Three Pages, and no metions of Gestalt to go both ways? Shame.

*cough* That said, I did build this:

Cavalier

Alignment: Any Lawful.

Hit Die: d10

Class Skills: The Cavalier's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (religion) (Int) Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex).

Skill Points at 1st level: (2 + Int Modifier) x4
Skill Points at Each additional Level: 2 + Int Modifier

{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|
+1|
+1|
+0|
+0|Lay on Hands, Aura of Law 1/day,
2nd|
+2|
+2|
+0|
+0|Knightly Grace, Bonus Feat
3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1|Smite Foe 1/day
4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+1|Improved Shield Bash
5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+1|Dodge
6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+1|
+1|Bonus Feat, Smite Foe 2/day
7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+2|Aura of Law 2/day
8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+2|Noble Mount 1st-Tier
9th|
+9/+4|
+7|
+2|
+2|Smite Foe 3/day
10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+2|
+2|Bonus Feat
11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+8|
+3|
+3|Ride-by Attack
12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+3|
+3|Smite Foe 4/day
13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+9|
+3|
+3|Cleric Domain-1st, Lance Knight
14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+3|
+3|Bonus Feat, Noble Mount 2nd-Tier, Aura of Law 3/day
15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+10|
+4|
+4|Smite Foe 5/day
16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+4|
+4|Combat Reflexes
17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+11|
+4|
+4|Cleric Domain-2nd
18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+4|
+4|Bonus Feat, Smite Foe 6/day
19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+12|
+5|
+5|Cleric Domain-3rd
20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+13|
+5|
+5|Bonus Feat, Stalwart Champion, Noble Mount 3rd-Tier[/table]

Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Cavaliers are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).

Lay on Hands: As per the Paladin ability.

Aura of Law: Aura of Law is a Cavalier's final defense. Used when foes close in around him the Cavalier summons his knowledge of right and law, and projects a feeling of defenslessness and clumsiness against neutral and chaotic foes. Neutral foes take a -1 penalty to AC and BAB, while Chaotic Foes take a -2 penalty to AC and BAB. This effect lasts for 1 round per Cavalier level. The aura can be resisted by a (DC10 + Cavalier level + Cavalier's CHA mod) Will save. A Cavalier may use Aura of Law once per day at first level, and gains additional uses every seven levels.

Stalwart Champion: In exchange for -1's to his Reflex and Will Saves, the Cavalier gain's +1 to his fort save.

Mounted Combat: The Cavalier is treated as always having the mounted combat feat.

Smite Foe: As per the Smite Evil ability, but only against Chaotic or Neutral Foes. A Cavalier gains one use at third level, and an additional use every three levels there after.

Knightly Grace: At 2nd level, a Cavalier has been trained to fight on horseback, and when mounted on a horse or pony gains a +2 competence bonus when attempting to control an untrained animal. When mounted on a warhorse, or warpony, the Cavalier gains a +1 bonus to mounted melee attacks.

Bonus Feat: A Cavalier is granted bonus feat in addition to those she normally receives. Bonus feats may be selected from the fighter bonus feat list.

Improved Shield Bash: At 4th level Cavalier is treated as having the Improved Shield Bash feat while mounted, even if he or she does not meet the requirements.

Dodge: From 5th level on, when mounted a Cavalier is treated as having the dodge feat even if he or she does not meet the requirements for it.

Cleric Domain: A Cavalier, while not necessarily a religious warrior is looked upon with favor by his or her god. At 13th level, a Cavalier may choose one of his or her gods domain's, and use the first level domain power as a Cleric of one quarter the Cavalier's level. At 17th level, the Cavalier gains the second level domain power, as a cleric of one quarter Cavalier level, and at 1th, gains a third level domain power, as a cleric one-quarter of the Cavalier's level. Cavaliers cast based on CHA as Sorcerors, Bards, and Paladins.

Ride-by Attack: At 11th level, if not taken before the Cavalier gains Ride-by Attack while mounted, even he or she does not otherwise qualify.

Combat Reflexes: If he has not taken it at an earlier level, at 16th level, the Cavalier is treated as having Combat Reflexes.

Lance Knight: At 13th level, the Cavalier has become a master of mounted combat, and as such is able to deal double damage when charging mounted wielding with a Sword, or Axe and Shield. Charging with a lance deals triple damage instead. The Cavalier's BAB, and chance to hit rolls are unaffected. The Cavalier also is able to disregard the -2 AC penalty while charging mounted.

Noble Steed: At 8th Level, a Cavalier may spend 1d4 days familiarizing himself with a particular mount, and bind himself to it. In doing so, it becomes a first tier mount. At level 14, it becomes a second tier mount, and at level 20, it becomes a third tier mount. While mounted on his Noble Mount, the Cavalier gains a +1 to his Reflex and Will saves.

If the Cavalier's Noble Steed is killed, it takes a year and a day to become familiar enough with another mount to replace it. Upon the steeds death, the Cavalier loses 200xp per level, with a fort save for half. In addition, the Cavalier must make a fort save, or be treated as having one half his total ride skill until he gains another Steed. Making the fort save reduces the penalty to three-quarters his ride skill. If the Cavalier's Steed is resurrected, the penalty to his ride skill is negated.


Noble Steed
{table=head]Tier|HD|Natural <br> Armor|Str. Adj.|Special
1st|
+2|
+2|
+1|Improved Mounted Combat, DR5/Silver
2nd|
+4|
+4|
+2|Shield Mount
3rd|
+6|
+6|
+4|Mounted Archery, DR10/Silver[/table]


Shield Mount:While mounted on his Noble Steed, the steed gains the Cavalier's Shield Bonus to it's AC against melee attacks.


Essentially a mount focused Paladin, but it's restricted to Lawful rather than Good.

Also see if the DM will allow the house rule of 'Skill Focus causes a skill to become a Class skill, instead of the +3 bonus.'

[Frozen_Feet]

After doing a bit of number-crunching, I've concluded that class skills aren't much of a problem. Between human, Nymph's Kiss, decent Int and starting with Bard, I get all skillpoints I need. Class skills aren't a problem either, especially if going with Fax's variant; 'sides, in my experience, GMs who rule "once a class skill, always a class skill" for convenience aren't in short supply.

What comes to Gestalt, it's a bit too easy. XD For example, Harmonious Knight Paladin / Sacred Prostitute // Sorcerer / Virtuoso could do everything the current Sublime Chord, and much more.

[0Megabyte]

I only recognized the Dwarf Fortress guy. I've never even heard the names of those other ones. But he can't be a cleric, because magic hasn't been implemented yet. I'd suggest Urist McAxedorf, female Axedwarf, wearing eight pairs of socks and using her newborn baby as a shield. Her axe is a cat-bone artifact. The craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It menaces with spikes of adamantine. The handle is made of adamantine. On it is a carving of cheese.

Pity. I suppose I didn't describe them very well, anyway:

The first character, Max Daring, is the lead of the comic book Incorruptible. Set in the same universe as Irredeemable, it is the story of one of the greatest villains, Max Damage, who witnesses the Plutonian (the superman analogue of this world) as he goes crazy and destroys first Sky City (you know, Metropolis) and then begins a rampage across the world. Max Damage, who claims to never feel anything, was moved by that image. He realized that even he had relied on the Plutonian to protect the world from the sort of chaos that even he, with his power, couldn't survive in. He realized that with Plutonian gone, someone needed to step up and protect the world. He decided that that person would be him, and he would become the paragon that the Plutonian only pretended to be. His reason of course is ridiculously selfish: He doesn't want the world to be destroyed, so he'll clean it up himself.

--- Panty is the protagonist of the anime Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt. She's an angel sent to earth to fight ghosts. She is promiscuous, and rude, and doesn't really care about other people at all. Frozen Feet could probably tell you better than I could, though the character does have some good character traits beyond being lust incarnate.

---The Laughing Man is a character from the series Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. Basically he's a super-hacker who has become a legend by the beginning of the series, and is quite possibly autistic. He has a lot of copycats, and technically was never what people thought he was in the first place.

---Guts is the protagonist of Berserk, a very dark manga. At the series' beginning, he is on a rampaging quest to destroy demonic entities known as
Apostles. And he's pissed about it. He was raised even as a child to be a mercenary, fought many battles, and eventually was betrayed by his best friend and lost his arm and eye to demons. In the "present" of the series he's consumed by hatred, and goes into a barbarian style rage (not a frenzy, though... at least not until he gets armor with frenzy as a special ability!) whenever he encounters the demons.

---Ilya is a character from the visual novel Fate/stay night. She's a little girl. She seems psychopathically insane sometimes, and other times sweet and innocent. She is the Master of Berserker, one of the seven heroic spirits summoned to fight in the Fifth Grail War.

You did catch the dwarf fortress dwarf, though! But I can cheat about clerics and whatnot, and that was basically a joke character anyway.



I take "non-sociopathic Panty" is reference to Panty from Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt? It's funny you thought of her, since she was on my mind too (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10371772&postcount=240)when I came up with this character concept. :smallbiggrin:

Well, of course I thought of Panty! The premise screams that kind of character. Only lawful good instead of chaotic evil neutral. I mean, a paladin who is thoroughly promiscuous, and who ends up becoming a sacred prostitute? I'd totally play that character as close to Panty's personality as possible. (possibly most based on her most badass moment in episode 13. She seems most sane and heroic there, as well as most comfortable with herself. It was great.)

For the actual paladin... I mean, the character doesn't have to be nice, specifically. But if I was writing this character, she'd end up being The Lancer (to use the tvtropes phrase) of the group. As well as The Cool Big Sis archetype. While still being Panty. Did I mention I foresee this group as being quite insane?

(Guts analogue would be the big guy. Laughing Man expy would be the smart guy. Ilya expy something of a Dark Chick archetype. The dwarf cleric would be the Medic. A Sixth Ranger should come later, of course.)

[Frozen_Feet]

So, one more thing I need help with: gear.

Specifically, looking for four sets of equipment, for levels 5, 10, 15 and 20, according to normal WBL. You can optimize "for the level", there doesn't need to be a smooth transition between the sets. I'm just looking for something to write down on a spare character sheet if I ever get a chance to play the character.

If someone has Spell Compendium at hand, I'm still curious of Bow of Song and whether it'd be a worthwhile investement.

[Cieyrin]

So, one more thing I need help with: gear.

Specifically, looking for four sets of equipment, for levels 5, 10, 15 and 20, according to normal WBL. You can optimize "for the level", there doesn't need to be a smooth transition between the sets. I'm just looking for something to write down on a spare character sheet if I ever get a chance to play the character.

What build did you finally decide to go for? That would be a major deciding factor in what to buy and whatnot.


If someone has Spell Compendium at hand, I'm still curious of Bow of Song and whether it'd be a worthwhile investement.

It's basically Snowflake Wardance with ranged attacks, except that it's ranged and single attack. If that's all you're expecting to do, especially if you go for a Ranged Smite Evil, it's worth your while. Otherwise, skip. It's also in the MIC, not the SpC (:smalltongue:) and ~12k, so not something you'll pick up till early middle levels (7-8).

[Frozen_Feet]

The build is Bard 3 / Paladin 2 / Sacred Prostitute 5 / Sublime Chord 10 - pretty much in that order.

My eyes must've skipped a line when looking for the bow. (^_^;;) Anyways, if it's that expensive, I think I'll be better off using that money on something else. Archery isn't going to be a major aspect of the character, after all, just an early-game survival strategy.

[Callista]

Hmm, you sure you don't want to go to Paladin 3? Aura of courage and divine health can really come in handy.

[Frozen_Feet]

Now that you mention it, I had a good reason for Bard 3, but I don't remember it right now... oh yes, I settled on Fax's variant, which doesn't actually give those things. I decided Fascinate and 4 more skill points were more useful than smite 1/day. With vanilla Paladin, Paladin 3 might be better, yes, but that's details.

[Sith_Happens]

Hmm, you sure you don't want to go to Paladin 3? Aura of courage and divine health can really come in handy.

Divine Health especially. Removes some of the *cough*occupational hazards.*cough*

[Mando Knight]

Divine Health especially. Removes some of the *cough*occupational hazards.*cough*

Pretty sure Sacred Prostitute covers those hazards as well.

Now, Aura of Courage, that would just be amusing for a character like this. "Fear not, for I have BOOBIES!"

[Callista]

Yeah :)

Hey, love conquers fear. Well known fact.

Personally, I think the Aura of Courage alone would pay for Paladin 3. I don't know if it's just the DMs I've known, but fear auras do tend to be pretty common, and often belong to creatures smart enough to know what to do with them. Anything that messes up your formation and forces you to scatter is a bad thing--you can't use any of your strategy if you're running for your life. Whereas, with you immune and boosting your allies' saves, you can pretty much count on at least half your party sticking around long enough for somebody to deal with the fear effect.

[Mando Knight]

Plus, if your DM is into using social skills against PCs, it makes you immune to Intimidate.

[Frozen_Feet]

Sure, if using vanilla Pally, I'll use Paladin 3.

Anyways, about the gear... :smalltongue:

[Callista]

Plus, if your DM is into using social skills against PCs, it makes you immune to Intimidate.And if your DM is extremely mean (as most are), it makes you immune to torture (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooKinkyToTorture) as well, because torture is an Intimidate check with modifiers.