This is a serious topic, not one for jokes

[Traab]

My grandmother is 88 years old and lives with my mother and me. The problem is, she is starting to see things. My mother is playing along with the delusions, seeing people who arent there, animals, whatever. I dont think this is a good idea. Wouldnt playing along just make things worse? Up till now we have always corrected her on the few times she would say that she is seeing say, a dog on the counch, when we dont have one. But now its like my mom has given up on correcting her and just agrees that yes there is an ugly woman sitting in the corner who just sits there and stares at her all day long, and acts like when you play along with a kid who talks about monsters in the closet and pretends to scare it off. What do you guys think? Play along? Or try to show her that it isnt real? Should I convince mom to go back to showing grandma it isnt real?

[Edan]

My great aunt who died a couple of years ago was close to that age. Her passing was from complications of dementia and she started seeing things like that. It was quite painful to all of us. I'm no doctor but seeking a competent one would be a good idea not only for diagnosis but also advice. Family therapy or counseling might also be beneficial.

Good luck.

[Lycan 01]

From the experiences I had with my family caring for my grandmother, I have to say playing along is the better alternative. If you try to disprove her or correct her, she may want to disagree or argue. She might think you're just disagreeing to mess with her, or she may get angry at you for lying. The results of disagreeing are, in my experience, worse than just going along with what she says.

I don't think enforcing or dismissing her delusions has any sort of effect on the progress on her condition either way, though I could be wrong. But if she gets upset, that could effect her condition because of the stress on her body and mind. That's what I'd be most worried about.

[Perenelle]

I think playing along might be better.. I don't think correcting her would stop her from seeing things, it would probably just stress her out or she wouldn't believe you. Going along with her would probably make her happier, and if there's nothing anyone can do about her condition than that's probably what's best.

*hugs* good luck.

[Traab]

Ah ok, you see, I wasnt sure about that. if giving into the hallucinations and allowing her to accept them as real would let her mind slip that much faster, or if arguing with her would do that instead. My personality is more of a pragmatic tough love kind of guy. I can be a bit abrasive at times, though not often, but my main issue is I dont like playing games. When my niece came downstairs crying about monster in her closet or under her bed, I go right up with her, open the door wide, or flip over the mattress, and make her see that there isnt anything there and there is no way for things to go there. I dont play pretend and go, "Ok honey, ill go scare them off for you."

The reason I bring that up is because now its taken a turn along those lines. She is getting creeped out and frightened by these imaginary people she sees standing there all day long and refusing to enter the room she insists they are in, and mom had to go in there and pretend to chase the imaginary woman off. I just wonder if its better to play along and pretend to scare off the person, or if its better to have my grandma point out where she is, walk right through the spot, and say, "See? She isnt here."

[Lady Moreta]

My grandmother went through something similar before she died... she was in a nursing home at the time and would get really agitated because she wanted to 'go home' we kept telling her 'you are at home, this is where you live'. Eventually we figured out that she thought she was in Kaikoura (a place about 2.5 hours from where we lived). We all went 'oh I wish we'd known that's what she was thinking, we could have taken her on an imaginery trip home'. Once the nurses figured out what was going on, we simply played along, it made grandma much less agitated and in the long run, made it easier on ourselves as well.

Aruging the point will only stress your grandmother out even more. It only takes a little effort to chase away the bad lady in the corner and then everyone can go back to normal :smallsmile:

[ArlEammon]

My grandpa may have had mild dementia. He was such a good man, but he suffered near the end of his life as someone who didn't exactly know what was going on all the time. It was mild enough that it could have been passed off as just advanced age, but eventually, after he died, I realize that the most probable reason for his eventual bad behavior and alarming mean-naturedness wasn't because he was just grumpy.

I think that since I don't have much to say that I should make what I have to say count.

This is serious, and I think you need to find a good friend to talk to.

[Orzel]

When my grandmother hit the serious dementia stage of Alzheimers, she said a lot of kooky stuff.

As long as she didn't said or do something dangerous, we found it better to go along with it. The more you interact, the slower the degradation goes said the doctors.

And it was easier to shoo imaginary animals than convincing her it wasn't real, arguing her with proof, and watching her cry.

[Telonius]

Just my two cents - take it for what you will.

If I were in that situation, it would be pretty clear that my grandmother isn't going to be around all that much longer. My primary concern would be for making her last few (days, months, years) on earth as comfortable as possible. If the things that she's seeing are freaking her out, do something that comforts her. She's not operating on logic anymore, so "proving" to her that what she's seeing isn't real, just isn't going to do much good. She's either going to spend the last few months of her life in constant fear and conflict, or she's going to have some periods of lucidity and calm. If "chasing away the ghosts" is making her calm down and feel at ease, then strap on the proton pack and get to work. It's ridiculous and illogical, but it just might be the kindest thing you can be doing for her.

[AsteriskAmp]

My only recommendation is to tell you to have a geriatric care doctor come to your home and diagnose her. The symptoms you describe are not exclusive to dementia, schizophrenia has a similar symptomatology, as some other diseases and syndromes do. Some of them are treatable, which can either slow the progression and/or act as a lenitive. A proper physician will also suggest your family what to do about her and how to approach her illness/disease/condition.

[Moff Chumley]

My grandmother has Alzheimer's, and dementia is starting to set in. It's not easy to deal with. My sympathy and condolences, man.

[Serpentine]

I strongly recommend seeing a doctor, both for diagnosis and advice. Noone here will give you information more reliable than a doctor.

[AslanCross]

I strongly recommend seeing a doctor, both for diagnosis and advice. Noone here will give you information more reliable than a doctor.

Agreed. I think this is the best way to care for her.

My grandfather's younger sister was afflicted with Alzheimer's, and since their family was poor, they were never able to take care of her well. She'd wander around and do really freaky things (like eating with a screwdriver). It was really difficult to even be in the same room with her whenever our relatives brought her over.

My grandmother also has a sister (who lives in the US) who has Alzheimer's, and the dementia would get pretty violent at times. Even though her family can afford special care and a nursing home, it was pretty tough when she stayed over. When they last visited us, her family went about their business (visiting friends and such) with her in my grandmother's care. She would alternate between sobbing because she felt abandoned by her family and wanting to go home to the US, and being very manic and upbeat. For propriety's sake, her family no longer leaves her with us here, as she's become increasingly difficult to deal with.

It's nasty, man. I wish you the best and pray you're able to take care of her in the best possible way.

[rakkoon]

My grandmother is a ninety one year old diabetic and she starts hallucinating when she forgets to take her medicine. That's why she's in a nursing home, she started seeing gorillas who attacked her and all. Funny thing is that now that she's in the nursing home, on a diet and taking her medicine and all, she's a bit too good to stay there.

[grimbold]

i have know 3 of my great grandmothers. Only one of them is still alive. She is like 93-94. Some days when i see her she starts calling me Benny. Benny was her brother (my great-great uncle and generall a great person). She will call me by the name of other people she knows as well. In those instances i try and correct her but i try to be gentle as in
'Grandma, its not Uncle Benny, its Frodo (pseudonym) remember?'

[Castaras]

My Grandmother had Dementia, I would highly recommend getting her to a doctor. If needbe, play along with the hallucinations to get her there. May seem like it's tricking her, but she needs the help.

[Lycan 01]

My grandmother got pretty bad with the mistaking names and locations stuff. She started thinking we were in the city she grew up in, and while we tried to convince her otherwise for awhile, we eventually gave up. And she'd sometimes call me by the name of my uncle, who died a year or so earlier. I don't know if she just got my name mixed up, or if she thought I was him. Either way, I didn't correct her on that...


Whenever she got sick or something, though, she'd start hallucinating really bad, and she'd get extremely mean and angry at you for illusionary reasons. Water running down the walls, flowers and butterflies moving around on some of the wallpaper, thinking my parents and/or me to be heavily involved in drug trade and use... I had to spend the night at the hospital with her twice when she was like that. This was also before I knew not to correct her and try to talk sense to her, so she got verrry terse with me through-out the night. Two of the most agonizing experiences of my life... :smallfrown:

[grimbold]

My Grandmother had Dementia, I would highly recommend getting her to a doctor. If needbe, play along with the hallucinations to get her there. May seem like it's tricking her, but she needs the help.

agreed
but do be wary of this tactic
my grandfather had to do it once to get his mother (my previously mentioned great grandmother) to the hospital and he was a bit... shaken for weeks after.

[Cyrion]

Another +1 to your best bet getting her to see a physician.

For helping you and your family cope, keep in mind that this isn't something she's doing "just for fun." Her mind is betraying her, and these things are very real to her. Logic isn't going to dispel them. It's like your perception of the door- no matter how much I tell you that your door is mostly empty space, if you walk into the door, you're going to bump your head. The hallucinations are going to seem just as real to your grandmother. I know how hard it is to accept that- my mom's having memory issues, and everyone really wants to believe that if she just worked harder, she'd remember. It's so very hard for us to understand how real a problem this is for her.

On top of it all, if she's at the beginning of the dementia process she's going to be dealing with fear and denial. She won't want to believe that this could be happening to her (she's not old in her own mind), and she's probably very, very scared of what's happening. The best thing you can do is help her deal with her fear and any denial that may be keeping her from seeking care.

[Dr.Epic]

I would seek medical help on this one. If the Matrix and 1984 have taught me one thing, you have to be able to discern what''s real.

[Amridell]

I don't have any true experiance with this sort of thing, but my mom works at a senior care center, and the best way to deal with dementia is to simply change the subject. If she starts getting freaked out about a wild animal in her house, say "don't worry. If it gets near us, I'll defend you. Y'want lunch?" or somehting like that. Her hallucinnations look threatening, but if you play along, that inkling of understanding that her vision is deceiving her will be swept away. Going along with it will only make things worse. You won't always be there.

You have my sincerest wishes of hope. I can do no more than lend some advice, but it might be enough. Good luck.

[tomandtish]

Another vote for the Doctor. There are many causes of dementia, and it is dangerous to assume it is just old age. Changes in medication, environmental changes, and even dietary changes can all be causes.


To give an example of a similar (if not exact) experience, I was placed on Lyrica a few years ago for health problems that kept me out of work for about 2 months. A few days in I developed significant problems with my short-term memory. I would call my boss at work to tell him I wouldn’t be there, then call him again 5 minutes later. If I turned the stove on, I had to set a timer or I would forget it was on. My wife would call me, and I would forget we had spoken (and not in the normal husband way of forgetting).

We figured out the cause and stopped the medication after 3 days, but it was a week before the effects wore off. It was probably the scariest time of my life. You know something is wrong, but you aren’t sure what.

Anyway, take her to the Dr. They can help determine what is causing this, and the best way to handle it.

[Don Julio Anejo]

A physician won't be able to do much. They usually don't have the training or knowledge to deal with psychiatric issues beyond depression and Alzheimer's. Your best bet is a full blown psychiatrist (NOT psychologist).

But yes, play along with her as everyone's said. Constant stress from fighting your mother and you (and anxiety over seeing things and wondering whether or not they're real) won't do your grandmother much good.

[Serpentine]

A physician won't be able to do much. They usually don't have the training or knowledge to deal with psychiatric issues beyond depression and Alzheimer's. Your best bet is a full blown psychiatrist (NOT psychologist).Uh... I suspect terminology might vary from place to place, but at least around here a psychologist is much more respectable than a psychiatrist.
And, again, around here, a GP is almost always your first point of call. They'll be able to give you some general advice, some prelimenary treatment, and a referral to the appropriate specialist.

[LCR]

Uh... I suspect terminology might vary from place to place, but at least around here a psychologist is much more respectable than a psychiatrist.
And, again, around here, a GP is almost always your first point of call. They'll be able to give you some general advice, some prelimenary treatment, and a referral to the appropriate specialist.

Depending on their specialty, psychiatrists and clinical psychologists often do pretty much the same thing. But since a psychiatrist is an actual physician, they tend to earn more and are often seen as less of a Freudian quack but as a scientist (as unfair as this may be to the science of psychology). I guess everything is upside down in Australia.




Concerning your grandmother's situation:
1) See her primary care physician, who ideally has completed training in geriatrics. If her primary care physician is not a licensed geriatrician, consider consulting one.
2) Have the geriatrician assess her and ask for a referral to a specialist in either geriatric neurology or geriatric psychiatry.

If those are not available near your grandmother's, the geriatrician should probably be able to manage her symptoms.
I would, however, advise against sticking with a regular GP.

[Serpentine]

Honestly, I'm not even sure if we have psychiatrists here. We have counsellors, who listen and advise and deal with mental illness etc, and psychologists, who study and - I think - deal with the brain and brain-related disease and/or mental illness, but more the medical side. And, pretty much always, the GP is your first port of call. I think you need a referral from a GP to see any specialist...

[LCR]

Honestly, I'm not even sure if we have psychiatrists here. We have counsellors, who listen and advise and deal with mental illness etc, and psychologists, who study and - I think - deal with the brain and brain-related disease and/or mental illness, but more the medical side. And, pretty much always, the GP is your first port of call. I think you need a referral from a GP to see any specialist...

Yes, you do have psychiatrists (http://www.ranzcp.org/).
Psychiatrists are physicians who have completed their residency/fellowship in psychiatry, which specializes in the treatment of mental illness.
Psychologists study psychology and work in a vast array of positions, including but not limited to clinical psychology and psychotherapy. Clinical psychologists usually cooperate very closely psychiatrists (which makes the distinction so hard), but they are not physicians, which means that they may not prescribe any medication. Psychiatrists on the other hand, often do not have the extensive background in psychotherapy some psychologists have. Therefore, patients in a psychiatric hospital are usually managed by interdisciplinary teams consisting of any number of psychiatrists, psychologists, neurologists, neuropsychologists, nurses, physiotherapists and ergotherapists.
(However, I have never seen an actual analrapist)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrIpPqcln6Y)
As a rule of thumb, a psychologist will take offense if you call him a psychiatrist and vice versa.

[Kjata]

Okay, I think you need to go see a professional. Not only is it likely no one here is qualified to answer, but I'm assuming there isn't enough information here, they would actually have to see your grandma.

This is the standard answer for health related issues on this site. I personally feel it should be against board rules to ask for any kind of health advice, because the only good answer seems to be "Go see a doctor." Just my opinion.

Oh, and it took a lot of effort not to make a one line post merely saying "She's lucky, I've spent a lot of money to hallucinate," but i realized this is serious and that would be horribly insensitive.

[Asta Kask]

What do you guys think? Play along? Or try to show her that it isnt real? Should I convince mom to go back to showing grandma it isnt real?

My mother is a gero-psychiatrist (i.e., a psychiatrist who specializes in the elderly). When our neighbor began getting visits from her dead husband my mum refused to play along, and told her that she (my mum) didn't believe that. However, this may be because my neighbor wouldn't cry or rage when corrected, just sigh and look as if my mum was an idiot.

I definitely agree with going to a primary health caregiver - psychologist, psychiatrist, geriatricist, whatever they are called in your area. Specializing in the mind gone wrong, and preferably in the elderly mind going wrong.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Five cents to the psychologist vs. psychiatrist distinction: the second most important one (after the one that a psychologist is a PhD in something like psychotherapy or counseling and a psychiatrist is an MD) is that psychologists typically treat psychological disorders. I.e. phobias, (mild) depression, anxiety disorders, "general sense of unease," etc. They also prefer talk therapy.

Psychiatrists treat psychiatric and sometimes neurological disorders. Schizophrenia, (more severe) depression, dementia, etc. They can treat psychological ones too, but generally don't since they focus on pharmacological treatments with talk therapy as an extra, depending on the condition, and you can't effectively treat shyness with Prozac. At least not in a way that will have an effect for the long term.

However, a lot (if not most) psychologists typically have connections with GP's to get meds if they feel it would benefit the patient, so both can get you drugs.