The World Responds to Spells (3.5)

[Hyooz]

No, this is not a "how to punish the wizard for being powerful" topic, or even "how to re-balance the world so casters don't pwnzor" topic. This is more of a... fluffy thought.

When I look at our world, and think about particular things, it's hard to miss the ripple effect inventions and discoveries have. You have something as monumental as electricity totally shifting the world, and stuff like cars leading to paved roads and highways and all the critical infrastructure we take for granted everyday. Obviously things like this are setting-deciding issues, and make the difference between Eberron and Iron Kingdoms.

What this topic is about is on a much smaller scale. Like the development of new armors in response to new weapons and new weapons in response to new armor. What sort of spells and other magic, their existence being known, would change the lives of people in the world, even in a small way, just by virtue of being known?

I have two examples in mind.

1) Explosive Runes and other symbol/sigil spells. These demand a response from people who would fear assassination, in my mind. Nothing world spanning, but something as simple as an anti-magic room for reading incoming messages and missive or at least a dispeller on duty in the "postal room" of any given palace. Or maybe a "taster" who flips through documents before handing them to the king to make sure no one prepared explosive runes today.

2) Raise Dead/Resurrection/Etc. Obviously these have huge implications beyond this, and how they work can be very setting-defining, I'm more curious about what they do to the diamond trade. How much more should a diamond be valued if it can literally be used to bring the dead back to life? Do they get used as decoration anymore? Do diamond mines become really, really high CR encounters because anyone who owns one needs to protect that with the strictest and best security around? Something about their power to moot death should probably drive the price up, which interacts interestingly with the spells themselves because the material component isn't "5 diamonds" but "5000gp worth of diamonds." But really, that could be just ONE diamond, since the rocks, as I've said before laugh in death's face.

I want to come up with more of these so I can work them into future campaigns. Just little quirks of the world, y'know? They're fun.

[Runestar]

A simple hound archon would be able to cast continuous light at-will without need for that 100gp component. A single one brought in via gate would be able to illuminate an entire town for free. They never need spend money on lantern oil ever again!

Teleportation circles would do away with the need for long periods of travel by air, sea or land.

Fabricate spells would collapse the market for any raw material.

[Eurus]

Fabricate spells would collapse the market for any raw material.

You might be thinking of the wrong spell. Fabricate allows you to re-shape materials, such as turning steel bars into a suit of armor or a suit of armor into an iron footstool. Still potentially has a big impact, although the fact that it's a 5th level spell (and most 9th level spellcasters have better things to do than manufacture furniture) means that it's probably not the normal means of production unless you go full-on Tippyverse and allow automatically resetting Fabricate traps.

[Runestar]

Than probably major creation. The one which lets you create walls of iron or salt out of virtually nothing.

[Kurald Galain]

Than probably major creation. The one which lets you create walls of iron or salt out of virtually nothing.
That spell would become much more interesting if instead it would summon that iron and salt out of some place else.

[Saintheart]

Create Food and Water, or indeed somebody out there crafting Everfull Mugs would fundamentally alter the places in which life can subsist in a given world. The middle of the desert needs no oasis, it's got spells to do it for you.

[Runestar]

A ghaele can CLW at-will. Imagine if one decided to set up shop as a healer in a huge town. :smallamused:

[Yora]

Create Food and Water, or indeed somebody out there crafting Everfull Mugs would fundamentally alter the places in which life can subsist in a given world. The middle of the desert needs no oasis, it's got spells to do it for you.

Not too sure about that. We already have the food to feed all people in the world. Complex international relationships result in that food not getting everywhere. So if spellcasters could just create food from thin air, it still would have to be distributed and that's the one part which causes problems.

And even in a fantasy world, you need a lot of food in areas that can't provide any food for people. A single cleric can only feed 3 people with one casting of Create Food and Water. You'd need a lot of clerics to feed any larger group.

[Dead_Jester]

Not too sure about that. We already have the food to feed all people in the world. Complex international relationships result in that food not getting everywhere. So if spellcasters could just create food from thin air, it still would have to be distributed and that's the one part which causes problems.

And even in a fantasy world, you need a lot of food in areas that can't provide any food for people. A single cleric can only feed 3 people with one casting of Create Food and Water. You'd need a lot of clerics to feed any larger group.

But the thing is, you don't need to transport. In a high-magic setting, it wouldn't be out of question for most villages to have a few low-level clerics, and one casting can feed 15 ppl (3 level spell). Even better, make a use activated item of it. You just created unlimited food in a tiny item, and it's not too expensive. I mean, a decanter of endless water on geyser mode produces enough water to fuel a thriving ecosystem, and can be used anywhere, as long as the temperature permits running water.

It gets even worse when you consider that some of the most expensive goods become ridiculously easy to get. You don't have to import salt from distant lands when your kingdom can just get a use activated item of flesh to salt or wall of salt. And for the truly expensive stuff, an item to cast major creation even once per day can pretty much fulfill all your needs.

The pseudo-medieval technological standstill doesn't make sense when you consider that most kingdoms could easily afford a few use activated items of fabricate and true creation and use those to make instant industrial production with barely any labor. Why pay thousands of laborers when a few magic items make them obsolete and make you self-sufficient?

Over time, society would inevitably end up being meritocratic based on the ability to do magic, as the casters control all the means of production, and can easily distribute their production. The common man would be useless, as he could be replaced with a few simple spells.

[Xiander]

2) Raise Dead/Resurrection/Etc.

I have been pondering at setting/civilization where the punishment for murder would be having to pay for the resurrection of the victim, and a monetary fine on top of that, to pay the guys cleaning up the blood.

[Grim Reader]

I prefer a setup where the availability of spells is the bottleneck. There are going to be few casters of level 9+ in most kingdoms, as I prefer it.

And most of them are going to have other priorities than collapsing the local economy or ecosystem.

Getting to the high levels for Wizards takes a pretty single-minded dedication among most NPCs, and the attitude that gets them there is often at odds with the attitude that would have them spending time an XP on those kind of projects. The primary interet of the powerful is power.

Clerics are a different problem. I tend to think that if D&D were the basis of a real world, the base state of government would be theocracy.

But I normally assume that most casters of such levels simply have enough money fro any creature comforts they want, and few enough items are being created in a given generation that the number of items lost, stolen or destroyed balances that.

[Cruiser1]

2) Raise Dead/Resurrection/Etc. Something about their power to moot death should probably drive the price up, which interacts interestingly with the spells themselves because the material component isn't "5 diamonds" but "5000gp worth of diamonds." But really, that could be just ONE diamond, since the rocks, as I've said before laugh in death's face.Spells that require "goods that cost X gp" have interesting implications, as made fun of in panel 1 of this strip: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0677.html

Than probably major creation. The one which lets you create walls of iron or salt out of virtually nothing.
The major creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/majorCreation.htm) spell is powerful and useful, but its effects are only temporary, where anything you create with it disappears after a few hours at most.

[mabriss lethe]

the trick to use are spells like wall of iron in conjunction with fabricate. The wall of iron is an instantaneous effect that can then be fabricated down into either finished products, or into more portable ingots and then sent elsewhere for further fabrication.