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Allanimal
2011-02-21, 03:58 AM
Is it legal to do a swift action between attacks of a full attack? The rules compendium states a swift action cn be made at any point during your turn, but the rules for a full attack in the RC isn't clear to me whether it is allowed. A 5-foot step is allowed between attacks, but what about a swift action?
Sorry if this has already been anwered before, but I wasn't able to find it on a search of this forum.

tuesdayscoming
2011-02-21, 04:49 AM
No, it is not legal.

All following is from d20srd.org:

On full attacks:
"If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks."

On full-round actions:
"A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions (see below)."

faceroll
2011-02-21, 05:01 AM
RAW, no, but RAI, yes. Swift & immediate actions were introduced to replace the clunky "free action on your turn but no more than once a round and with none of these other actions" language. Like Quicken Spell.

Elric VIII
2011-02-21, 05:02 AM
I believe you are able to use swift actions before a full attack, otherwise a bunch of ToB boosts would be pretty useless. Some of them mention using them while charging (a full round action) and others mention using them with a full attack.

Ernir
2011-02-21, 06:23 AM
I believe you are able to use swift actions before a full attack, otherwise a bunch of ToB boosts would be pretty useless. Some of them mention using them while charging (a full round action) and others mention using them with a full attack.
They can be used before, but not during a full attack.

Allanimal
2011-02-21, 06:26 AM
RAW, no, but RAI, yes. Swift & immediate actions were introduced to replace the clunky "free action on your turn but no more than once a round and with none of these other actions" language. Like Quicken Spell.

Pretty much what I thought. I was thinking of the Duskblade's quick cast ability, to cast True Strike as a swift action, but to cast it between the 1st and 2nd attacks of a full attack to get the bonus on the reduced to-hit iterative attack.

I guess it is a call for the DM...

Runestar
2011-02-21, 08:33 AM
Yes actually.

For example, a gish with bab+16 can first make 3 attacks, then cast quickened true-strike to augment his 4th attack.

Asheram
2011-02-21, 08:45 AM
But, I was pretty sure that you couldn't take actions during another action. (such as in the middle of a full-round action)

lesser_minion
2011-02-21, 08:46 AM
You may take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action.

A free action may be performed while performing another action.

So yes, it's explicitly allowed within the rules.

The more interesting use of that is to make a spellcaster immune to readied attacks by abusing Wings of Cover.

Ernir
2011-02-21, 09:06 AM
You may take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action.

A free action may be performed while performing another action.

So yes, it's explicitly allowed within the rules.

Hmm. Do you get this from

You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. and
You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action.?

Because I don't think "You may take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action" follows. :smallconfused:

Is it made explicit somewhere?

Frog Dragon
2011-02-21, 09:11 AM
*Casts Summon Curmudgeon IX*

I personally haven't seen it done anywhere.

lesser_minion
2011-02-21, 09:13 AM
It's part of the description of swift actions in the SRD:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#swiftActions


A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. However, you can perform only a single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting or the activation of magic items; many characters (especially those who don't cast spells) never have an opportunity to take a swift action.

The RC shortens that particular piece of language to "any time during your turn", but that doesn't contradict the original version.

Runestar
2011-02-21, 09:19 AM
Let's put it this way.

A fighter with 4 attacks who throws daggers can use quick draw to draw a new dagger to throw in between each attack.

So a sequence would go like this:

Attack at +16 bab.
Draw new dagger as free action.
Attack at +11 bab
Draw new dagger as free action.
Attack at +6 bab
Draw new dagger as free action.
Attack at +1 bab
Draw new dagger as free action.

And so on (especially if he has extra attacks from haste, rapid shot and TWF'ing). He can easily be taking 8-10 free actions each round.

Using this scenario, is there a reason why I can't swift-action during a full attack?

Claudius Maximus
2011-02-21, 10:12 AM
Quick Draw supports the answer yes, as Runestar demonstrated.

Also, there are a number of weapon abilities that you can activate as a swift action when you hit someone. That would usually be during an action, whether a standard action to attack or one of the attacks in a full attack.

It seems the answer is "yes" both in RAW (because I see absolutely no reason that "any point" can't be between swings) and RAI.

faceroll
2011-02-21, 10:28 AM
"You can take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action."

That is pretty much rock solid RAW that you can use your swift action in between swings.

Curmudgeon
2011-02-21, 10:50 AM
*Casts Summon Curmudgeon IX*
You don't need me here. Runestar and lesser_minion have provided the right answer and the rules source to back that up. Good job, guys.

tuesdayscoming
2011-02-21, 12:02 PM
You may take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action.

A free action may be performed while performing another action.

So yes, it's explicitly allowed within the rules.

The more interesting use of that is to make a spellcaster immune to readied attacks by abusing Wings of Cover.

Alas, I am out-knowledged!

Keld Denar
2011-02-21, 12:15 PM
Also, given that you can explicitly take your 5' step at any point during your full attack is more indirect proof that you can break up your full attack with other actions.

You know, just in case we need more proof.

Claudius Maximus
2011-02-21, 12:50 PM
But the 5-step isn't a free action, but rather not an action at all, so that doesn't really prove anything. :smalltongue:

Keld Denar
2011-02-21, 01:42 PM
Yea, but it is something you are doing between swings in a full attack. It just goes to prove that you CAN do things inbetween swings, rather than being restricted to doing things either before or after.

Whatever, it made sense to me in my head...