To kill a god.

[Doomboy911]

My party has moments where the Dm will take a short break and let someone else Dm for a bit. One guy who plays a barbarian warforged did a campaign where everyone grabbed a nifty mount. Artificer got this weird crab demon thing, the rogue got this shapeshifting creature, the bard legitimately got a T-rex (rolled a perfect on the tame animal) but than came a moment with these infernal spiders.

Apparently these eight spiders four being pure evil and four being pure good combined doing a ritual that would destroy the world. Use being level five didn't know how to stop it when at the last moment two of the giant spiders turned on the others. One was good one evil and they combined their power to be a stronger spider.

So at that moment the spider begins questioning us asking our purpose in life. The Dm refused to play without the warforged barbarian so the old Dm played as him for him. When the question reached the barbarian he gave him the answer that the barbarian would give. The spider liked his answer and sided with him, swearing loyalty.

Now comes the question. The spider is quite powerful and quite plot ruining. At first I thought it was an epic level spider but no, I recently found out it used to be a god so how does one go about killing one? My plan was to throw some epic level monster that could pull it off but now knowing it's a god I may have to throw Lolth at it. Has anyone had to fight a god, all books are allowed and the world is a combination of all the worlds like if you walked so far things turn to Faerun and if you head in another direction you'll hit eberron.

[HunterOfJello]

If you just want to kill the spider off then have an insanely fast glowing kobold fly in the area, erase it from existence and then fly away before anyone can react. Pun-pun eats gods for breakfast.

[Aharon]

Probably best to talk with the guy who plays the barbarian out of character. Just tell him you don't want him to have a god as a pet. Otherwise, he will be annoyed no matter how you remove it.

Perhaps work out a scene together with him where he acts against the reason the spider swore allegiance for, so that it leaves on its own?

Actual input if you want to solve it by the rules:
You pretty much need a god with a higher Divine Rank. Even than, it is hard to completely kill a god off. Only 100% way would be Pun-Pun involvement, as Hunter said.

[JeminiZero]

Firstly, do the players know that the Spider is a god? If they don't actually know it, you could just tone the spider down to something appropriate, and they would be none the wiser.

Second, why would a GOD swear loyalty to a mortal at all? Perhaps although he once WAS a god, he has lost much of his power at some point of his life. Read up the story of Orcus and Tenebrous for inspiration. Again, the net result is that the spider isn't game breaking, and the player gets to keep it.

[Tyndmyr]

New DMs often fall into the "it's over 9000" trap. Bigger numbers, more power, epic, godhood....these do not inherently make the game better. If you want someone to be badass, you cannot merely say they are badass, you have to show it. The same is true for literature.

Unfortunately, plenty of people just take shortcuts. Which leads to god-spiders as pets, which at level 5 is a wee bit ridiculous. The plot didn't even really make sense to me. I don't see any real motivation for the god-spiders in anything they do.

I suggest squishing the spider, smacking the GM upside the head, and suggesting he use prefab modules for a bit while he gets a feel for what he's doing.

[tcrudisi]

Or, do the opposite: don't try to kill the spider, but make it the focus of a story. Some menace is threatening the world and, due to it's recent ritual, the god-spider too weak to get there on its own. It needs the players to get it there.

Once there, the god-spider is still not powerful enough, but the players will have to assist it. Basically, it's fighting another god, but the best it can do is to make the other deity mortal for a short time. Of course, this also leaves the spider as being mortal, too.

Epic fight ensues between the players and the now-mortal former-god. If their god-spider survives, this would be a good exit point. If he dies, the players cry due to their immense sadness of having a plot-ruining god-thing as a pet. Regardless, the Barbarian finds a new pet.

[Tyndmyr]

Once there, the god-spider is still not powerful enough, but the players will have to assist it. Basically, it's fighting another god, but the best it can do is to make the other deity mortal for a short time. Of course, this also leaves the spider as being mortal, too.

They are level 5. There is no plausible reason that a god would need to be bailed out by a level 5.

[Cespenar]

They are level 5. There is no plausible reason that a god would need to be bailed out by a level 5.

Depending on the setting, a god might be, ahem, godly on certain stuff and not at others. Vanilla D&D does agree with you, though.

[Tyndmyr]

Depending on the setting, a god might be, ahem, godly on certain stuff and not at others. Vanilla D&D does agree with you, though.

Well, per the OP, they're doing setting-hopping, so anythings really possible. However, considering they went from getting demon crabs and t-rexes to god-spiders in a single session, I suspect it's that one person doesn't really get what's appropriate for a level 5 party.

[Aharon]

Well, if at least everybody got gods, and not only his own character. That's a bit unfair :smallmad:

[Cespenar]

Maybe actually, it's the god that got him and not the other way? :smalltongue:

[Tyndmyr]

Granted. Pretty much what's gonna have to happen is some scaling to make it appropriate. Talk with the DM OOC about how to fix it. Make sure he gets the general idea as to what sort of things are reasonable for a level 5 party.

It's ugly, but I suggest retconning the god thing. Have the spiders be lying or whatever makes sense. If he wants a spider-pet, cool. God-pet, not so cool.

Also, when round-robin DMing, I've found it best to have the rule that the currently DMing character is either following along inactively, or sitting the session out, and the DM gives no loot that goes to his own character. People being able to hand themselves loot is a recipe for trouble.

[Khatoblepas]

God spider?

That can only mean one thing:
http://www.best-horror-movies.com/images/it-pennywise-basement.jpg

Oh, they float, Barbarian. They ALL float down here. *cue all the children in every town going missing as they pass through*

Makes sense, too. The game seems to have a Dark Tower vibe, so why not have them face off with IT?

[Land Outcast]

Well, the best ways to kill a god usually involve other gods (or quests set by the DM involving extremely forbidden magicks ;) )...

And wait, does this "god" have a will of its own? or is it just a humble servant to a barbarian? gods do have their own agendas...

[faceroll]

Well, per the OP, they're doing setting-hopping, so anythings really possible. However, considering they went from getting demon crabs and t-rexes to god-spiders in a single session, I suspect it's that one person doesn't really get what's appropriate for a level 5 party.

The Fellowship was level 5 and regularly smoked out with a god. Things went pretty well for them.

[Greenish]

The Fellowship was level 5 and regularly smoked out with a god. Things went pretty well for them.Ainur are not gods, and Gandalf was a DMPC. A bad one. (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?cat=14)

[Tyndmyr]

The Fellowship was level 5 and regularly smoked out with a god. Things went pretty well for them.

1. The fellowship was not level five. Nor was Gandalf a god. The closest analogy was an outsider. Honestly, I end up retyping this so much I think I should blog it and just link to it every time.

2. LOTR is an interesting world and story. It is not an especially good campaign. Pet god-spiders are unlikely to improve that.

3. I don't know how you'd even justify keeping a god as a pet.

[druid91]

The solution is, as always, More dakka.


Wait a bit, put up with this spider until you have the capacity to break the economy.

Then do so.

Use your misbegotten gold to create an Adamantium flying fortress bristling with thousands of Basilisks, A.K.A. great Bombards from stormwrack.

Pick a fight with the barbarian

Open fire. Include some disjunctions, a couple of antimagic rays, and for good measure chain together as many tornado's eyes as you can. Keep them off, then if the volley fails, wreck everyone's lives for miles around as tornado force winds tear across the land around your fortress.

That's the confrontational way.

It's not likely to work if he is still the DM.

Also for good measure get some epic level super-toxins. Coat the cannon ammunition in the stuff.

If that don't kill him dead, resort to more firepower. Be sure to have more firepower.

[Shadowleaf]

Wait wait wait wait. Am I reading this correctly?
The player of the Warforged Barbarian DM'ed, your old DM played the Barbarian, and the Barbarian's usual player gave the Barbarian character Gods as pets? :smallconfused:

Did he give HIS OWN CHARACTER Gods as pets?

If this is the case, hit him with the PHB, then the MM, and finally the DMG. That's just.. Crazy stupid.

[druid91]

Hence my elaborate but slightly more fun plan to wreck the world.

[NichG]

In a setting with a 2ed Planescape sort of feel, it would be possible for a party of level 5s to take out a minor god, but they'd have to do it in a way that is a lot more subtle than this party seems to operate.

Basically, they'd have to erode the deity's belief structure in a way that is hard to trace back to them or to quash. Probably while never leaving the protection of the base of the Spire, where the god couldn't get to them.

Deicide via advertising!

On the other side of things, if you need a way to nerf this spider god as DM (and subscribe to this particular planescape-ism), you can declare that its worship base is so small that its at constant risk of losing its godhood - basically, it has one worshipper, and thats the barbarian. It is incredibly powerful, but if the party convinces the barbarian to stop worshiping it, it will go away. And it can't simply kill party members that threaten that since, if there's any kinship in this party, that will make the barbarian turn on it.

[Doomboy911]

Well I'm playing Dm right now our old Dm quit and I took the reins so now I'm trying to smash this annoying arachnid. My plan was if I wanted to kill it really well was to take the Tarrasque have it being empowered by Queen Lolth and led by a bluespawn godslayer. Those three should handle the job if I want to just kill it beyond recognition.

Plan b if I wanted to be nicer was to have it that Elminster and blackstaff needed his power to fight some coming threat. Without asking take the spider and rush off to waterdeep to start draining levels from it. In the end the players would get repaid with a necklace of fireball (it is a infernal spider). Basically they were going to cast polymorph into any object to turn it into a necklace that has its power within it.

Plan c if I want to be a monster was to send someone from a lower book . Since the spider is so powerful everyone will be after it including who I think would me dangerous Lord Soth from Ravenloft.

I'm thinking of combining idea b with idea C.

[Grendus]

Rocks fall on the spider, it's squashed. When he objects just say "listen, we let you DM for one week and you gave yourself a pet god. If you don't want retribution, either be the permanent DM or have a modicum of restraint."

Seriously.

[NichG]

The problem with randomly bringing in huge unintelligent external powers is that its very arbitrary escalation and has nothing really to do with the story of the players. It leads to you basically running a game between NPCs while the players can't do anything but watch, at which point why are they playing? Or worse, it becomes a meta-game between you and whoever DMs next, to try to create power for their characters that the next DM can't take away, etc.

As previous posters have pointed out, you don't need to do this game-mechanically.

I think you're better off just saying 'okay guys, I know this happened last game, but its going to make the campaign untenable, so I'm retconning certain aspects of it and the spider is just a cool Fiendish Dire Spider (or something), rather than a spider god etc as was implied; sorry', or alternately 'the spider god goes back to its divine realm, and the barbarian gets the same thing that worshippers of other gods get - a spider god has better things to do with its time than play cohort to a level 5 adventurer, the same way Yondalla or Pelor or whomever don't become cohorts to their level 5 clerics.'

[Doomboy911]

Hmm due to the many mistakes the young druid makes (took the floating gem with glowing red eyes under it, wanted to climb into the prison cell full of drow vampires in order to get bitten) the barbarian has threatened to kill him if he took a box on a shelf. The druid did and the barbarian is going to kill him come next chance.

I'm ruling that if the barbarian wants to kill the druid he has to change his alignment from CG to CE with this spider being true neutral it would wish to avoid the alignments furthest away. After giving the druid a little help if he dies the spider will true resurrect him and ditch the barbarian for boring him and his evil ways.

Might even use the spider as a plot point later.

[caden_varn]

I would very strongly suggest that you discuss this out of game first, as others have suggested. Do so politely, outline the issue you have, and the solution you want to use (at least in overview).

If you go in straight away in game and target the spider without any notification (and without the rest of the groups mounts being affected), he is likely to feel picked on unfairly, which can cause trouble for the group.

Even if he is guilty of bad DMing by setting out to give his character a pet god, its best to be tactful about it if you want to avoid bad feeling. If he is reasonable, he should see things from your perspective, and if he isn't reasonable when discussing it out of game, he is likely to be much more unreasonable when faced with a DMs fiat in game without any warning...

[Triaxx]

*deepbreath* Want to get rid of the spider, without causing the player to rage like the barbarian? Cause the spider the get weaker. Slowly. Make it purely mechanical. Say it's a level 20 spider. Every session for the next 15, it loses one level a session. Once it hits level five, have another deity descend to inform it what's happening, and tell it that staying in the mortal world constantly is draining it's powers, and soon it will be mortal again. (An imperfect fusion if you need an explanation.) This particular god has been chosen to come and take it to a higher plane where it can restore it's strength as a god and take it's place amongst the pantheons.

Of course it'll be a tear jerker of a moment, but now the barbarian can be the official prophet of the spider god, and gain some special powers for being it's chief priest. Like a grappling bonus, or a poisonous unarmed attack.

Thus it's a gameplay element, instead of a DM inflicted event.