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View Full Version : Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit



danzibr
2011-02-22, 10:54 AM
With Karmic Strike, on your turn you can choose to take a -4 penalty to your AC in exchange for AoO's against anyone that makes a successful melee attack or melee touch attack.

With Robilar's Gambit, on your turn you can choose to give anyone that strikes you +4 to attack and damage in exchange for an AoO each time they swing.

So... my question is how they work together. If you choose to activate both, your enemy essentially gets +8 to hit and +4 to damage but provokes 2 AoO's each time they strike you?

term1nally s1ck
2011-02-22, 10:56 AM
Unless the bonus to hit is of the same type for each other, which I don't believe, then yes. Basically you have to have HUGE AC or have a lot of miss chances, or just hit much harder, or have special effects on each attack.

No brains
2011-02-22, 10:58 AM
That's how I see it working! :smallsmile: Even if they get great bonuses, enemies may think twice when you can get in two hits for their every one.

They mostly think: Arrrrrrrgh.....

SPoD
2011-02-22, 10:59 AM
You can't get two AoO's from the same triggering condition. Per the SRD on Attacks of Opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm):


[Combat Reflexes] does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity).

So, I think the answer to how they work together is, "They don't." If a character is dumb enough to take both, then the enemy gets +8 to hit and +4 to damage, and the character gets one AoO against him for that, whether he hits or not. The second potential AoO is wasted.

They're basically the same idea, written two different ways. Most DMs I know would pick one and disallow the other if it ever came up, for simplicity.

Keld Denar
2011-02-22, 10:59 AM
RG provokes for the swing. KS provokes for the hit. Two seperate events that provoke, two seperate AoOs. That'll burn through your Combat Reflexes REALLY quick.

The attack you get from RG is resolved BEFORE your opponents attack roll is. AoOs happen before the event that triggers them. If you drop your foe with the attack you get from RG, they don't get to finish the swing. KS triggers in response to the hit. If your foe misses, you don't get a swing. If they do hit, you do get a swing. Different circumstances, different provocations, different AoOs.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-02-22, 11:00 AM
With Karmic Strike, on your turn you can choose to take a -4 penalty to your AC in exchange for AoO's against anyone that makes a successful melee attack or melee touch attack.

With Robilar's Gambit, on your turn you can choose to give anyone that strikes you +4 to attack and damage in exchange for an AoO each time they swing.

So... my question is how they work together. If you choose to activate both, your enemy essentially gets +8 to hit and +4 to damage but provokes 2 AoO's each time they strike you?

Yep, but to get the best mileage of it, be sure to have some defences other than AC, for example miss chances.

SPoD
2011-02-22, 11:04 AM
RG provokes for the swing. KS provokes for the hit. Two seperate events that provoke, two seperate AoOs. That'll burn through your Combat Reflexes REALLY quick.

The attack you get from RG is resolved BEFORE your opponents attack roll is. AoOs happen before the event that triggers them. If you drop your foe with the attack you get from RG, they don't get to finish the swing. KS triggers in response to the hit. If your foe misses, you don't get a swing. If they do hit, you do get a swing. Different circumstances, different provocations, different AoOs.

Ah, never mind then. I didn't get that from the OP, and I don't have access to the books they're in right now.

Then yes, if one triggers from the swing and the other from the hit, then those are two separate opportunities.

(I still think most DMs I know wouldn't allow both feats, but that's subjective.)

No brains
2011-02-22, 11:14 AM
(I still think most DMs I know wouldn't allow both feats, but that's subjective.)

Unlike most other builds where players vie for 'awesome powers lolplzbbq', this one bears a strong chance of actually killing the player!:smallbiggrin: This isn't living in your coumfy bastion of big numbers, this is living dangerously. And living dangerously is very D&D.

If they get too uppity with their powers, you can always shoot them and give them no AoO.

Gnome Alone
2011-02-22, 11:18 AM
Unlike most other builds where players vie for 'awesome powers lolplzbbq', this one bears a strong chance of actually killing the player!:smallbiggrin: This isn't living in your coumfy bastion of big numbers, this is living dangerously. And living dangerously is very D&D.

If they get too uppity with their powers, you can always shoot them and give them no AoO.

Good ol' all-purpose Plan B: Shoot Them.

danzibr
2011-02-22, 11:21 AM
Thanks for the responses, all. I think I'll ditch Karmic Strike and go Robilar's Gambit.

Si-on
2011-02-22, 11:37 AM
The AOO from Robilar's Gambit is resolved after the attack unlike other AOO's. It specifically states in the feat description.