level 5 "rogue" build

[Bagger]

hey guys, I am about to start a grp where I am going to play a "rogue" well more like a melee dps. I have a freind there plays the "tank" so I can count on some one to stand next to and take the blows, making flanking sooo much easier :)

the idea was to lunch so much sneak attack at them as possible

so Strongheart halfling is the race

rogue 1 -1d6 trapfinding, skills
swordsage 1 - focus, strike/stance, +1 init,
fighter 1 feat
spelltheif 1 -1d6 steal spell 0-1, trapfinding
ninja 1 -1d6 ki powerz (+2will)

focus (ssage)
TWF (lvl 1)
Finesse (lvl 3)
Shadow thingi (race- halfling)
imp. buckler def (figther)

oh stance would be Island of blade and weapons most likely Short swords
and with Amulet of teamwork

is there anyone there can come up with an better idea :)

[Havelock]

I'd go for a whisper gnome rogue/swordsage.

[Bagger]

was more thinking about the class build

[Telonius]

I'd switch out the Fighter level for Swashbuckler. Weapon Finesse is going to be more useful to you than Improved Buckler Defense at that level. It has the same BAB and saves as Fighter, but two more skill points.

The larger problem I'm seeing is that Sneak Attack only deals damage when you actually hit. Right now, you have three classes with +0 BAB at first level. Unless you're playing with fractional BAB, you are going to have +2 BAB (the same amount a Wizard gets) at level 5. If you're planning on actually using two-weapon fighting, you'll be doing +0/+0. Your Strength or Dexterity is not going to be enough to make up for that.

[Greenish]

You need to know a Shadow Hand maneuver to qualify for Shadow Blade.

You lose your Wis to AC if you use a shield, so save a feat and skip Imp. Buckler Defence.

Grab Hit and Run Tactics fighter ACF from DotU if you're dipping fighter.

Drop Spellthief and Ninja, take more Swordsage levels (so you get Assassin's Stance earlier, as well as maneuvers).

[Bagger]

we are getting full, which means +4 (and focus= +5 and MW =+6 -2 for TWF = +4) which are quite okay..

have been looking at whisper gnome and OMG they are nice.

about swashbuckler, well sounds good yeah

[Bagger]

about the swordsage, we are only allowed 1 level dip in them (our GM hate ToB)

[Thespianus]

we are getting full, which means +4 (and focus= +5 and MW =+6 -2 for TWF = +4) which are quite okay..

have been looking at whisper gnome and OMG they are nice.

about swashbuckler, well sounds good yeah

Consider grabbing Craven instead of TWF. TWF is good, but gives you a -2 to hit. Craven gives you +5 damage on your main attack when you sneak attack, and that gets multiplied on a critical hit, since it's a static bonus. (Maybe use a Rapier instead of Short Swords?)

It also allows you to keep your Shield bonus to AC if you pick Swashbuckler instead of Fighter, since you only attack with your main hand.

[Bagger]

rapier is not a swordsage shadow school weapon, thats why its shot sword

[Draz74]

about the swordsage, we are only allowed 1 level dip in them (our GM hate ToB)

If you're only allowed one Swordsage level, save it for Level 5 or Level 9, so you can get Level 2 or Level 3 maneuvers with it.

[Bagger]

how can I get 2nd level maneuvers with one level dip?

heard people talk about it before, but I don't understand it

[dextercorvia]

Human Rogue1/Swashbuckler1/SAFighter1/Swashbuckler+1/Marshal1

Feats:
H:Skill Focus Diplomacy
1:Craven
3:???
5:Daring Outlaw

Aura (Master of Tactics)


Gets +3 BAB, 3d6+5 Sneak Attack, +Cha to damage when Flanking.

Take a level of Swashbuckler at 6 for +Int damage.

[ZeroNumerous]

All class levels stack to determine your Initiator Level as a Swordsage. Classes that do not grant maneuvers count for 1/2 of an initiator level. Classes that do count for 1 initiator level.

A Fighter 5/Swordsage 1 has an Initiator Level of 3, which qualifies for Level 2 maneuvers.

[dextercorvia]

All class levels stack to determine your Initiator Level as a Swordsage. Classes that do not grant maneuvers count for 1/2 of an initiator level. Classes that do count for 1 initiator level.

A Fighter 5/Swordsage 1 has an Initiator Level of 3, which qualifies for Level 2 maneuvers.

Actually classes that aren't Swordsage count as 1/2IL for Swordsage.

Warblade4/Swordsage2 has an IL of 5 for Warblade, and IL of 4 for Swordsage.

[Thespianus]

rapier is not a swordsage shadow school weapon, thats why its shot sword
Ah, my bad. I'm not fully ToB-savvy yet.

[Hyfigh]

I like dexters build but would change it to:
Human Rogue1/Swashbuckler1/SAFighter1/Swashbuckler+1/Swordsage1

The Swordsage manuevers would be too handy, and Assassin's Stance, if you're able to qualify for it, will add 2d6 sneak attack damage.

[dextercorvia]

The reason for Marshal was so that you could get Daring Outlaw at 5 and Master of Tactics.

He is only allowed one level of ToB, so on a Rogue, he wants it later. Assasin's Stance is a 3rd level stance. He would need something like X8/SS2 to get it without feats.

[Bagger]

All class levels stack to determine your Initiator Level as a Swordsage. Classes that do not grant maneuvers count for 1/2 of an initiator level. Classes that do count for 1 initiator level.

A Fighter 5/Swordsage 1 has an Initiator Level of 3, which qualifies for Level 2 maneuvers.



okay thank you, now that makes better sense.

in case my GM dont belive me where does these rules stand in ToB

[Greenish]

in case my GM dont belive me where does these rules stand in ToBInitiator levels and multiclassing are on page 32, going by memory.

[gomipile]

okay thank you, now that makes better sense.

in case my GM dont belive me where does these rules stand in ToB

It is on page 39.

[Bagger]

thank you guys! really nice to know