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Tyger
2011-02-22, 05:17 PM
The character is level 10, and I am stuck on the level 9 feat. His feats are:

Extraordinary Artisan
Legendary Artisan
Extend Spell
Improved Homunculus
Skill Focus UMD Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles)
?????

Dwarf if that matters, and sort of going with a generalized build - mostly he's going to be the crafter for the group, along with being a "troubleshooter" - i.e. no one else has the right spell or tool, he'll step up. A bit of bufficer, with a side serving of hordificer (two Arbelester homunculus), and dash of melee (dwarf with fully kitted out full plate, tower shield and dwarven waraxe)... in short, he's not specialized enough to really guide this last feat selection.

Persistent Spell is attractive, but its been houseruled in our group to only be usable once per day for every six levels, so at level 10 it would only be usable once.

I had thought about Wand Mastery, but his wand selection is limited to about five wands right now (Enlarge Person, Haste, Fly, Glitterdust, Benign Transposition and Magic Missile, yeah, I know about the last one).

And yes, I will likely train out Skill Focus in a few levels, but for now the 3 points is worth it. That Shape Soulmeld suggestion was too good to pass up. +4 to three skills instead of +3 to one? Check!

Help! I just can't decide. I've read the Unofficial Guide to Artificers 3.0, and its not inspiring me at all on this last choice.

EDITED: To incorporate one of the suggestions.

Roga
2011-02-22, 08:44 PM
You can't go wrong with the Artisan Feats. I'm a big fan of Craft Construct, but many think it requires too much specialization or investment to be worth it. You can use it to make Effigy creatures of cool creatures with unique or useful movement modes. Effigy Hippogryphs fly just as fast and will never get tired, sleep, or require food. Just my 2cp

Fox Box Socks
2011-02-22, 08:46 PM
I'm partial to the Prophetic Favor feat chain from Magic of Eberron, specifically the one that gives you a bunch of free action points every day, enabling you to get around that pesky 1 minute casting time much more often.

Tyger
2011-02-22, 11:10 PM
Roga, I like the way you think. There are some nice possibilities for effigies out there. Golems don't appeal to me all that much, but effigies - those have a lot of possibilities.

Thanks. That helped.

Gavinfoxx
2011-02-22, 11:59 PM
I don't like skill focus UMD. Those incarnum goggles do it better, and artificers have tooonnnnssss of ways of boosting their UMD.

What exactly theme do you want to focus on with your artificer? That helps narrow down which feats you might want!

Tyger
2011-02-23, 07:02 AM
I don't like skill focus UMD. Those incarnum goggles do it better, and artificers have tooonnnnssss of ways of boosting their UMD.

What exactly theme do you want to focus on with your artificer? That helps narrow down which feats you might want!

Yeah, I'll likely craft a pair of the googles soon, like I said the Skill Focus will very likely be re-trained out.

Care to comment further on the "tooonnnnnssss" of ways for Artificers to boost their UMD? I thought about the basics - using two +5 UMD item and the Item Alteration infusion to change my +5 Competence bonus from one of them into say a morale bonus, then Skill Enhancement infusion for an additional +7 circumstance, which would give me, at my current skill load out, a +40 to the role. But of course, that is for when I have all the time in the world, i.e. crafting roles and things like that.

As for focus, that's the problem. He doesn't have one yet. This is the first Artificer our group has seen, so it is sort of virgin territory for us.

I had thought about going hordificer, but that presents a challenge for the DM and the party come combat time - we had a challenging experience with a Dread Necromancer and his hordes, and I'd rather not repeat that.

I liked what Roga said about craft construct, until I saw the costs of golems - they are priced far, far out of range for this game. Even the relatively inexpensive effigies are pretty pricey. So back to the drawing board.

His main schtick, if such can be said of him, is the crafting angle. I have a dedicated wright in a portable hole workshop, so there will always be something underway at any given moment. But I already have the two main crafting reduction feats (the time one is kinda nice, but does reduce the chance of success a bit) and none of the others really jump out.

mint
2011-02-23, 08:04 AM
Can can you specify the problems you foresee should you play a hordificer?

I am playing my first artificer going for blastificer, my char only just got to level 5 though.
One thing that comes to mind is action points. Are you using them?
To me and my DM it seemed like infusions were made with them in mind. So without action points, we found it fair to let rapid infusion give you three uses a day instead of one.

How do you troubleshoot? If you make a lot of scrolls maybe least dragonmark of scribing so you can qualify for unbound scroll.

Yuki Akuma
2011-02-23, 08:09 AM
Persistant Spell? Use it with your metamagic spell trigger class feature to give your minions"allies" day-long buffs.

Sure, it's expensive to use that many wand charges, but...

Tyger
2011-02-23, 08:29 AM
Can can you specify the problems you foresee should you play a hordificer?

The fact that those controlling 4-10 minions tend to take reallllllllllllly long combat rounds, which is boring for the rest of the party. That's it really.


One thing that comes to mind is action points. Are you using them?
To me and my DM it seemed like infusions were made with them in mind. So without action points, we found it fair to let rapid infusion give you three uses a day instead of one.

Yes, we are using the UA action point system, so that will give me a bit more versatility than without. We tend to level after about 2-3 sessions, so I'll have to be judicious in my use of them, but I can hardly wait. My bard, the character that is leaving, hardly ever used them though - never seemed to need to, so I'll have to routinely remind myself of them.


How do you troubleshoot? If you make a lot of scrolls maybe least dragonmark of scribing so you can qualify for unbound scroll.

By "troubleshoot" I just meant that he would be the guy that solves the problems no one else can. Rogue can't open the door because the DC on the lock is too high? Spell Storing Infusion (Knock) to the rescue. We need to search the bottom of that lake tomorrow morning? No problem, I'll have the Wright work up some Water Breathing potions / scrolls for us while we sleep tonight. Up against a particular foe type today? Weapon Augmentation Bane for everyone! :smallbiggrin: Things like that.

"Unbound Scroll" that's the prestige class? Looks interesting, albeit a bit too focused.


Persistant Spell? Use it with your metamagic spell trigger class feature to give your minions"allies" day-long buffs.

Sure, it's expensive to use that many wand charges, but...

Ordinarily I would agree 100%, but with the houserule noted in the OP, Persistent kinda sucks. Once per day isn't really worth it. Might be a good choice at 12th though, when I'd get it twice per day.

Yuki Akuma
2011-02-23, 08:58 AM
Craft metamagic rotsrods of persistent?

Tyger
2011-02-23, 09:36 AM
Craft metamagic rots of persistent?

This one is on the list of "things to talk to the DM about" once I have some more time / gold.

Gavinfoxx
2011-02-23, 11:23 AM
Yeah, I'll likely craft a pair of the googles soon, like I said the Skill Focus will very likely be re-trained out.


Uhh... you do know that the goggles I mentioned can't be crafted and are mostly had from incarnum classes, incarnum races, or a feat?

Tyger
2011-02-23, 11:30 AM
Uhh... you do know that the goggles I mentioned can't be crafted and are mostly had from incarnum classes, incarnum races, or a feat?

Yup. My bad. Once I looked into I realized what you were talking about. Changed the feats above to reflect the advice though. Good idea! One feat for +4 to three stats.

Geiger Counter
2011-02-23, 11:34 AM
Uhh... you do know that the goggles I mentioned can't be crafted and are mostly had from incarnum classes, incarnum races, or a feat?

the goggles! they do nothing!

Gavinfoxx
2011-02-23, 11:40 AM
Another way to improve UMD is Item Familiar.

Tyger
2011-02-23, 11:53 AM
Yeah, I looked into that, seems a bit over the top for our DM. :smallbiggrin:

My UMD is actually OK, sitting at 26 right now (13 ranks, +5 Item, +2 Masterwork, +4 Mage's Spectacles, +2 from CHA). When you factor in the Artificer bonuses and synergy bonuses, I don't think I'll have too much trouble with the rest. I also made a wand of Divine Insight, for crafting mostly, that extra +15 bonus takes the UMD into the "Can't really fail" area. And of course, I can get another +5 out of the Skill Enhancement Infusion if I really need to bring out the big guns.

For that last feat I might look at Wand Mastery again... +2 to caster level could save some gold and XP if nothing else. And if I do get any serious save-or-whatever wands, that could help out as well.

EDIT: On that note, at what point is extra UMD completely superfluous? The highest I can see, without going Epic, is to cast a level 9 wizard spell from a scroll, which would require you to nail a 37. So a 36 is all you really need. Or am I missing something?

truemane
2011-02-23, 12:04 PM
This is better taken at earlier levels, of course, but you might look into Heroic Spirit, giving you an extra 3 Action Points per level. Action Points are worth their weight in Platinum for Artificers.

Another way to go is to try and convince your DM that Rapid Spell (Complete Divine) should work on Infusions with a casting time of 1 minute. The description says that a spell with a casting time 'measured in minutes' is cast in one minute and a spell with a casting time 'measured in rounds' is cast in one round. It doesn't specify what happens to a spell with a casting time of exactly one minute. Bring some Mountain Dew to the discussion. Whine if you have to.


EDIT: On that note, at what point is extra UMD completely superfluous? The highest I can see, without going Epic, is to cast a level 9 wizard spell from a scroll, which would require you to nail a 37. So a 36 is all you really need. Or am I missing something?

You want it high for when you get Metamagic Spell Completion (level 11). The DC to add metamagic to a scroll is 20 + 3*the modified level of the spell. Stacking metamagic can get that number pretty high. Other than that, once you can emulate 9th level spells automatically, you want to start being able to emulate Extended, Widened, Empowered, Maximized, Twinned, Fell, etc 9th level spells with no problem.

So the higher the better. Always and forever.

Fox Box Socks
2011-02-23, 12:14 PM
Like I said before, Dragon Prophesier + Prophecy's Hero = 5 + your Wis mod free Action Points every day at level 10. As far as I'm concerned, it's too good an investment for Artificers NOT to take.

Tyger
2011-02-23, 12:40 PM
This is better taken at earlier levels, of course, but you might look into Heroic Spirit, giving you an extra 3 Action Points per level. Action Points are worth their weight in Platinum for Artificers.

That might not be bad... that would give me 13 action points this level. That's probably enough to spend one per encounter and make it to level 11.


You want it high for when you get Metamagic Spell Completion (level 11). The DC to add metamagic to a scroll is 20 + 3*the modified level of the spell. Stacking metamagic can get that number pretty high. Other than that, once you can emulate 9th level spells automatically, you want to start being able to emulate Extended, Widened, Empowered, Maximized, Twinned, Fell, etc 9th level spells with no problem.

So the higher the better. Always and forever.

Ah yes. Forgot about that. Thanks.


Like I said before, Dragon Prophesier + Prophecy's Hero = 5 + your Wis mod free Action Points every day at level 10. As far as I'm concerned, it's too good an investment for Artificers NOT to take.

True, but that first full round action to enter into the favor is hard to swallow... sure you'll get a free action point, but two feats for extra action points seems like a high cost. That pretty much means that the first round of every combat is spoken for. Our combats tend to go fairly quickly - usually no more than four or five rounds (though now that the DFI bard is gone they'll slow down a bit as the damage output just got halved) so losing that round could hurt.

Something to think about though.

EDIT: Of course, that also opens up Prophecy's Artifex... swift action to activate wands or staves. That is pretty much a free Quicken. Hmmm.... that sounds better and better actually.

Fox Box Socks
2011-02-23, 12:43 PM
Back when I played an Artificer, entering Prophetic State was part of my pre-fight buffing, preemptively setting me up for casting Infusions on the sly.

Worked wonderfully for me.

borg286
2011-02-23, 04:13 PM
As a pre-combat nifty trick is to get a +2 Metamagic feat applied to a scroll with metamagic scroll infusion.
Some of the better +2 metamagics are extend, empower, split ray, Smiting Spell(+1 metamagic feat, Cast touch spell into a weapon, which discharges spell, lasts 1 minute).

Telonius
2011-02-23, 04:33 PM
Your character isn't really centered on it, but Grenadier-Mad Alchemist from PHB2 might be worth a look. Probably better stuff out there in terms of power, but thematically it could work for an Artificer.