help with a character [3.5]

[slaydemons]

something someone else wrote made me think of some sort of adventuring merchant what do you guys think would be the best way to get people to buy his/her goods only requirement is that if it isn't srd please say what book each class is from. I was thinking something with artificier in it

[KillianHawkeye]

Put ranks in Diplomacy. Win at haggling.

[sonofzeal]

Punctuation, man! It saves lives (http://www.esl-lesson-plan.com/archives/2010/03/lets_eat_grandma_or_lets_eat_grandma_punctuation_s aves_lives.php)!

That said, Artificers (ECs) and Warlocks (CArc) are the only two who can make every item in the game. Bards and Exemplars (CAdv) are the best at selling, but as with everything the Artificer can match it if he spends enough gold.

Merchants generally make poor PCs (http://adomguides.blogspot.com/2009/01/sound-of-gold-guide-to-merchants-by.html) though. The business of running a shop is often at direct odds with the adventuring lifestyle. It ties you down to one place on the map, requires endless meaningless interactions with nameless NPCs, and won't involve the rest of the party at all. You're far better off just making a regular PC who occasionally sells things to raise money (again, Artificer, Bard, or Warlock works here), than by setting out to make your PC a "merchant".

[slaydemons]

Punctuation, man! It saves lives (http://www.esl-lesson-plan.com/archives/2010/03/lets_eat_grandma_or_lets_eat_grandma_punctuation_s aves_lives.php)!

That said, Artificers (ECs) and Warlocks (CArc) are the only two who can make every item in the game. Bards and Exemplars (CAdv) are the best at selling, but as with everything the Artificer can match it if he spends enough gold.

Merchants generally make poor PCs (http://adomguides.blogspot.com/2009/01/sound-of-gold-guide-to-merchants-by.html) though. The business of running a shop is often at direct odds with the adventuring lifestyle. It ties you down to one place on the map, requires endless meaningless interactions with nameless NPCs, and won't involve the rest of the party at all. You're far better off just making a regular PC who occasionally sells things to raise money (again, Artificer, Bard, or Warlock works here), than by setting out to make your PC a "merchant".



Yeah, sorry my grammar is down the toilet but other then that I want to get the other players to buy my stuff. basically I want it to go down like this "hey you, YES you with the long stick, and the other one with pointy metal sword come here buy my wares. cheap, cheap, cheap, buy my sword of mundane properties yes ,right here, right now!"

[sonofzeal]

Yeah, sorry my grammar is down the toilet but other then that I want to get the other players to buy my stuff. basically I want it to go down like this "hey you, YES you with the long stick, and the other one with pointy metal sword come here buy my wares. cheap, cheap, cheap, buy my sword of mundane properties yes ,right here, right now!"
Rarely ends well, unless you're offering it as a party service at vastly discounted rates. Fellow players will feel ripped off and resentful if you keep milking their characters for money, and I do mean players, the people sitting around the table from you. D&D is a cooperative activity, and you don't want to undermine that.

So offer it as a service, and let your prices speak for themselves. Undercut the NPC merchants by 30% or more.

[slaydemons]

yeah but my friends wouldn't know their being ripped off but should the build be some sort of combo of lock and artificier?

Edit:actually I found I can be artificier for 13 levels then switch to bard muhahaha?

[sonofzeal]

yeah but my friends wouldn't know their being ripped off but should the build be some sort of combo of lock and artificier?
No.

Warlocks at high level can create any item in any book, but only at 12th level. At that point, switching to Artificer doesn't make as much sense. It's possible for an Artificer to dip Warlock for 4 levels to get Deceive Item, but again that's a fair investment and not really worth the return imo.

As to "your friends wouldn't know they're being ripped off"... no. Just no. They'll figure it out. You're jeopardizing real-world friendships for in-game gold. If you seriously think this is a good idea, your priorities are messed up.

Having a character being mercenary about things is fine, but if you're going to play an unhelpful bastard then at least have the cahones to play an unhelpful bastard, and really RP it. Trying to pull one over on your fellow players is pretty much the absolute worst thing you could do.

[slaydemons]

Yeah can't deny that it would be a bit of a douche move

[sonofzeal]

Here's something to consider for future reference...

I'm on Plot team for a game with about 150 players, that has been running 13 years. I'm pretty new to the team, but the people running it seriously know their stuff. And one thing they've learned is that most players don't mind if you maim, corrupt, or even kill their characters. That's all part of the game, and leads to exciting RP opportunities too. But heaven help you if you mess with a character's wealth. Players resent it far more if they feel that Plot is robbing their character somehow. Perhaps someone more versed in human psychology could explain it, but they take threats to their character's wealth far more personally, on an out-of-game level, than threats to their character's actual wellbeing. It's the one thing you can do to really make them frustrated with the game.

[slaydemons]

still though I wish to make a guy who doesn't fight and tries to talk the enemies down, and then get them to buy his wares to which he will probably have no magical items at first, when he gets to a certain level of item wealth and players give him said items for a 30% discount it will make me have a good time and they get shiny weapons

[sonofzeal]

Artificer or Bard works then, imo. Bard is better at the talking, Artificer is better at the making, both are good buffers.

[slaydemons]

12-13 levels of artificer and 7-8 levels of bard then? >:D

[sonofzeal]

12-13 levels of artificer and 7-8 levels of bard then? >:D
Why? :smallconfused:

[Fable Wright]

I think that a merchant, if done right, could definitely make for an interesting character. He starts yammering, and the next thing the person he's talking to knows they've bought a horse, three beds, and an old sword with a questionable origin. When they originally came charging in the door in a bloodied rage. I just find that amusing, for some reason.

For the build, I would recommend a bard 6/artificer X with that feat from one of the psionics handbooks that lets you get 1 power and 2 power points (don't remember the page...) and then grab Practiced Manifester, and maybe Psionic Talent as well if you don't have enough power points from a high ability modifier. Rationale: Artificer for object creation, of course. Bard for getting Suggestion 6/day when using Perform(Oratory) to babble on to a customer and get them to buy a product, whether they actually need it or not. Possibly with Extra Bardic Music to do so more times per day. The feat would be used to get Minor Creation, psionic, to conjure up a small stand, like a lemonade stand or a very small Bazaar stall for when you do business with someone who wasn't expecting it. Also use the Craft Points variant, which would allow you to just magically conjure up whatever it was that the person you're selling it to needs, or set up booth for the party. You also get the ability to use the Lyre of Building, which means that you can set up a convention center, or market stand, or shop of some kind, whenever you need it, be it for selling someone a new house, getting storage space for your products, or opening up a new franchise. [/2cents]

[slaydemons]

I think that a merchant, if done right, could definitely make for an interesting character. He starts yammering, and the next thing the person he's talking to knows they've bought a horse, three beds, and an old sword with a questionable origin. When they originally came charging in the door in a bloodied rage. I just find that amusing, for some reason.

For the build, I would recommend a bard 6/artificer X with that feat from one of the psionics handbooks that lets you get 1 power and 2 power points (don't remember the page...) and then grab Practiced Manifester, and maybe Psionic Talent as well if you don't have enough power points from a high ability modifier. Rationale: Artificer for object creation, of course. Bard for getting Suggestion 6/day when using Perform(Oratory) to babble on to a customer and get them to buy a product, whether they actually need it or not. Possibly with Extra Bardic Music to do so more times per day. The feat would be used to get Minor Creation, psionic, to conjure up a small stand, like a lemonade stand or a very small Bazaar stall for when you do business with someone who wasn't expecting it. Also use the Craft Points variant, which would allow you to just magically conjure up whatever it was that the person you're selling it to needs, or set up booth for the party. You also get the ability to use the Lyre of Building, which means that you can set up a convention center, or market stand, or shop of some kind, whenever you need it, be it for selling someone a new house, getting storage space for your products, or opening up a new franchise. [/2cents]

ha nice this is good now I need to look up this feat you speak of but which first bard or artificier?

[Keld Denar]

Here's something to consider for future reference...

I'm on Plot team for a game with about 150 players, that has been running 13 years. I'm pretty new to the team, but the people running it seriously know their stuff. And one thing they've learned is that most players don't mind if you maim, corrupt, or even kill their characters. That's all part of the game, and leads to exciting RP opportunities too. But heaven help you if you mess with a character's wealth. Players resent it far more if they feel that Plot is robbing their character somehow. Perhaps someone more versed in human psychology could explain it, but they take threats to their character's wealth far more personally, on an out-of-game level, than threats to their character's actual wellbeing. It's the one thing you can do to really make them frustrated with the game.

Living Greyhawk was the same way. Some adventures were written with things that really SCREWED you on WBL such as an Adamantine Golem with Improved Sunder and Combat Brute, or a 2-headed Rust Dragon (make 2 saves or lose ALL your gear every 1d4 rounds). Those adventures got a reputation, and NODODY would play them. Gold in LG was more important than anything, including XP. A lot of high level characters would often kill themselves and buy the raise dead, as while this would set them back only 5000g, you could potentially lose thousands of XP. That means that they had more loot and better item access at the level they were playing at.

Don't screw with a player's toys. That seriously erks people worse than anything, in just about any situation.

[Fable Wright]

ha nice this is good now I need to look up this feat you speak of but which first bard or artificier?

Bard, almost definitely. Because you're supposed to sell the goods more than make them. Anyways, with bard, Craft is still a class skill, so while you can't start off making and selling magic items (which are pricey), you can still make and sell just about anything.

[slaydemons]

I don't plan on rip them off in any way and I also hope to make them feel more welcome to roleplaying the game, as most of the people I am playing with are newbies

what if I was a changling for minor alter self and carry around a bunch of costumes to run around dungeons, and be diffrent people like one guy is potion seller guy another is food seller guy.