Clerical Error

[Dornath]

Hey roleplaying forum!

This may seem obvious to some, but it posed a conundrum to me.

I'm building a cleric for a horror campaign. Following Wee Jas, lawful neutral, and I've picked Turn Undead and channelling positive energy to keep the party alive. I'm looking at the Death Delver class for some possible dipping.

At the first level, Heroes of Horror says that the character gains the ability to Rebuke Undead, and that if they had the ability before that the levels will stack. Does that mean my Turn ability stays the same? Or do I get a second pool with which to Rebuke?
It doesn't give the ability to choose.

Also, at the second level of the class I get to spontaneously cast cure or inflict again... But I'm fairly certain that's drawn only from the Death Delver spell pool.


Finally, would it be broken to ask my DM to allow a change from the Death Delver spell pool to just increase my Cleric casting? Maybe only gaining Death Delver spells?

[tuesdayscoming]

Hmm... I don't have the rules to back this up, but I think that if your cleric levels gave you Turn Undead and not Rebuke, then you would have one pool of 3+ Turn and another of 3+ Rebuke. If on the other hand you had Rebuke from cleric, you'd still just have the one pool.

Anyone know for sure if this is accurate?

[Urpriest]

Hmm... I don't have the rules to back this up, but I think that if your cleric levels gave you Turn Undead and not Rebuke, then you would have one pool of 3+ Turn and another of 3+ Rebuke. If on the other hand you had Rebuke from cleric, you'd still just have the one pool.

Anyone know for sure if this is accurate?

I've heard this trick suggested before with a Dread Necro dip. Suffice it to say there's no clear-cut reason why it can't work, but there may be more ambiguous ones.

[erikun]

Is Channelling Positive Energy a feat you are taking at first level? Because LN clerics of Wee Jas are normally forced to take Rebuke Undead. (They cannot choose to Turn Undead instead.)

[Dornath]

Nope. My DM is waiving that restriction.

[Vangor]

Does that mean my Turn ability stays the same? Or do I get a second pool with which to Rebuke?
It doesn't give the ability to choose.

Every mention I have seen of PrCs adding Turn or Rebuke has been explicit with regards to stacking for the purposes of Turn or Rebuke specifically. To my reading, you would have separate pools for each.


Also, at the second level of the class I get to spontaneously cast cure or inflict again... But I'm fairly certain that's drawn only from the Death Delver spell pool.

The spell would be drawn strictly from the Death Delver spell list which requires Death Delver spell slots to cast without possible feats/PrC abilities.


Finally, would it be broken to ask my DM to allow a change from the Death Delver spell pool to just increase my Cleric casting? Maybe only gaining Death Delver spells?

Not broken. The spells offer nothing, as far as I know, faster than when a Cleric obtains and only a handful of spells not on the Cleric list. The issue being with taking only Death Delver spells is you'll be gaining no new spells whatsoever after DD3 (assuming Cleric 5 for entry) since those stop with 4.

Perhaps progresses cleric casting at 2/3rds? Progressing cleric casting each level would be gaining a bunch of abilities for no investment due to the slim entry requirements.

[Thurbane]

I asked pretty much this exact question in the Q&A thread recently - the concesus is that you get two pools - one Turn pool and one Rebuke pool. Divine or Devotion feats that can use either ability could draw from both pools (i.e. once you'd chewed up all your Turns, you could start on Rebukes)...

[Dornath]

Ahh... Hmmm....

Vangor, your post has brought up another question.

If I use your suggestion to advance cleric casting by 2/3rds, which I'm presenting to my DM tomorrow for approval, where would my new ability to spontaneously cast inflict come from?

Being able to choose between Cureing and Inflicting seems a little OP...

[jiriku]

Nah, both spell lines are pretty mediocre at what they do. But the flexibility would no doubt be handy.

[Vangor]

Being able to choose between Cureing and Inflicting seems a little OP...

No. Neither line is great, and combined with the other class features the 2/3rds casting is still rather harsh, but I would hesitate to permit 3/4ths due to the capstone feature being of such varying potential. Likely, you will not bother inflicting spontaneously.

[elonin]

Not being familiar with that prc I can't say for sure. Thought you could only have turn or rebuke and that a neutral cleric had to choose at 1st level and could only change with a change in alignment (away from the choice).