Low Level Cleric Spells that Retain Usefulness

[Elric VIII]

What I would like to find out is what low level spells are useful at higher levels. For instance, Divine Favor is an excelent spell throughout the course of the game. However, it's one of the spells you would not mind wasting a 5th level slot to quicken or a 7th level slot to persist.

I am wondering if people can advise me on some useful spells of level 1-3 that a high level character would not mind casting from those slots (as opposed to metamagic-enhanced low level spells). They don't necessarily have to be in-combat spells.

My low level slots are almost exclusively populated by Protection from X, Augery, and Dispel Magic.

I currently have the Dungeonscape ACF that lets me trade a domain power for spontaneous Restore spells.

[Keld Denar]

Hide from Undead gets a lot of use from me at mid-high levels. Its 1st level, so spending a slot on it is minor. It affects the whole party by level 6 or so, and it lasts a decently long time. Unintelligent undead NEVER get a save, so a 20 HD zombie ignores you. Even if an intelligent undead makes the save vs a couple party members, it might cause them to underestimate the party when all of a sudden a whole party of invisible foes materialize around it.

[CockroachTeaParty]

In the absence of a paladin or incarnate or other spammer, the Detect Alignment spells can be quite useful at any level in a variety of situations.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Sign (SC) and Ice Slick (FB) are first pick. Downdraft (SC) is useful, as are various low-level Summon Monster, Summon Undead (SC), and Conjure Ice Beast (FB) spells.

[ffone]

If Close Wounds is interpreted as being able to negate all the damage from a single attack as an immediate action (which AFAICT is the RAW but I suspect many DMs nerf), it's pretty great for a 2nd level spell. As your levels go up, so will the HP it heals, and it's an immediate action so it doesn't compete with most of your own economy (unless the cleric uses a lot of other swift/immediate stuff, like Travel Devotion or Celerity.)

[Elric VIII]

Detect spells are an excelent idea, and Hide from Undead could be useful, but can I command my own undead when I use that spell?

Ice Slick is amazing, does it make them flat-footed if they dont' have 5 ranks in balance, like grease?

I use Delay Death, but Close Wounds could have its uses as well.

I wonder if my DM would mind Shivering Touch as one of my 3rd level spells...

[Tvtyrant]

Comprehend Languages
Align Weapons (potentially, lots of things need aligned weapons to overcome DR
Consecrate+Desecrate
Shatter
Spiritual Weapon

[ericgrau]

All the utility ones on scrolls and wands. Ya, don't bother preparing those unless you use them daily or it's a waste of space. We got those out of the way? Good. That leaves for levels 1-3, besides those already mentioned:

Status
Undetectable Alignment?
Invisibility Purge
Magic Circle against X (10 min/level, double with 3,000 gp rod of lesser extend spell, why waste a turn on protection from X?)
Protect from Energy

[Elric VIII]

Comprehend Languages
Align Weapons (potentially, lots of things need aligned weapons to overcome DR
Consecrate+Desecrate
Shatter
Spiritual Weapon

Can I use Shatter to destroy a spell component pouch?
Can it be used to destroy a section of material similar to Disintegrate or does it have to be a single object?


All the utility ones on scrolls and wands. Ya, don't bother preparing those unless you use them daily or it's a waste of space. We got those out of the way? Good. That leaves for levels 1-3, besides those already mentioned:

Status
Undetectable Alignment?
Invisibility Purge
Magic Circle against X (10 min/level, double with 3,000 gp rod of lesser extend spell, why waste a turn on protection from X?)
Protect from Energy

I use Magic Circle as well, it's just that the main use is to counter mind control, so I figured if I only need to apply it to one person, I should save the spell levels.

Invisibility Purge is a really good idea.

[Draz74]

How has Silence not gotten mentioned?


Can I use Shatter to destroy a spell component pouch?

Depends how your DM interprets the word "solid." Personally I maintain that what they actually meant was "rigid," and even then I'd be somewhat picky about actually allowing the spell, so I'd say no.

[Elric VIII]

How has Silence not gotten mentioned?



Depends how your DM interprets the word "solid." Personally I maintain that what they actually meant was "rigid," and even then I'd be somewhat picky about actually allowing the spell, so I'd say no.

I suppose I could still ready actions to silence opponents.

[ffone]

+1 on Silence. Cast it some random nonmagical ring or trinket worn by a meleer, who rushes at spellcasters, to silence them with no save (hopefully in tight quarters or grappling so they can't run out of it on their turn; at least they'll provoke the AoO). Or cast Silence on a flying invisible familiar/summon who flies near the enemy spellcaster and readies an action to follow them if they move. Or on a net which is then thrown over spellcaster (you'll probably take a -4 for nonproficiency, but it's a ranged touch attack). Or ready an action to cast Silence near the spellcaster when they try to cast. (If it's a BBEG, one turn and L2 spell of your cleric is worth ruining one round for the BBEG.)

Also of course Silence is wonderful for moving silently. The silence itself would tip off enemies but you'll be w/i charge (or ranged sneak attack) range before they're w/i its radius.

[Tvtyrant]

Did the SRD for Shatter always say crystal, porcelain and glass?

[Elric VIII]

+1 on Silence. Cast it some random nonmagical ring or trinket worn by a meleer, who rushes at spellcasters, to silence them with no save (hopefully in tight quarters or grappling so they can't run out of it on their turn; at least they'll provoke the AoO). Or cast Silence on a flying invisible familiar/summon who flies near the enemy spellcaster and readies an action to follow them if they move. Or on a net which is then thrown over spellcaster (you'll probably take a -4 for nonproficiency, but it's a ranged touch attack). Or ready an action to cast Silence near the spellcaster when they try to cast. (If it's a BBEG, one turn and L2 spell of your cleric is worth ruining one round for the BBEG.)

Also of course Silence is wonderful for moving silently. The silence itself would tip off enemies but you'll be w/i charge (or ranged sneak attack) range before they're w/i its radius.

Well, that's a nice AMF substitute.



Did the SRD for Shatter always say crystal, porcelain and glass?

The 3.5 PHB mentions all of those plus ceramic.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Silence is the best counterspell in the game. Just ready it for when an opponent casts a spell with a verbal component, then target it on a point in space close enough to affect them. They get silenced during their cast, it gets completely interrupted, and their spell is wasted. Also works if they're casting a one round cast time spell, such as a Summon, since they have to keep casting until the start of their next turn.

Yes, Ice Slick makes them flat-footed as per the Balance skill, the same reason Grease does.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Silence is also useful as an impromptu defense against spells with the Sonic descriptor, which includes nasty stuff like Blasphemy.

[ericgrau]

Can't believe I missed silence. Shatter can target a single object regardless of composition (unlike the area usage). So looks like you could target spell component pouches, though perhaps only the bag not the contents. I never noticed that before.

[Curmudgeon]

Can I use Shatter to destroy a spell component pouch?
Only with a clueless DM. The power of Shatter is dependent on the definition of the word "solid". Some players try to get the chemical "neither liquid nor gas" definition into play, though that's ridiculously anachronistic in a setting where there's no chemistry (alchemy isn't chemistry). "Rigid, not flexible" is the most likely dictionary definition. Some DMs could go for "having the interior completely filled up/free from cavities", or "made of only one material". None of these will work on a spell component pouch: it's flexible, has an open interior, and is made of multiple materials (leather and stitching, buckles).

Can it be used to destroy a section of material similar to Disintegrate or does it have to be a single object?
No; the spell only works on "one solid object". You can't target one plank in a door unless you disassemble the door first: the door is an object in D&D, so its component parts aren't valid targets for the spell.

[Elric VIII]

Only with a clueless DM. The power of Shatter is dependent on the definition of the word "solid". Some players try to get the chemical "neither liquid nor gas" definition into play, though that's ridiculously anachronistic in a setting where there's no chemistry (alchemy isn't chemistry). "Rigid, not flexible" is the most likely dictionary definition. Some DMs could go for "having the interior completely filled up/free from cavities", or "made of only one material". None of these will work on a spell component pouch: it's flexible, has an open interior, and is made of multiple materials (leather and stitching, buckles).

No; the spell only works on "one solid object". You can't target one plank in a door unless you disassemble the door first: the door is an object in D&D, so its component parts aren't valid targets for the spell.

That all makes sense (at least in D&D terms). Well, there may not be as many uses as I had hoped, but it still seems like a great spell.

Is it safe to assume that a focus would be a legal target for the spell?

[DragonBaneDM]

Lesser Vigor and it's big brother!!! And it's...fat brother? I dunno. But Persisted Mass Lesser Vigor looks like lotsa fun.

[Elric VIII]

Yes, Ice Slick makes them flat-footed as per the Balance skill, the same reason Grease does.

Just looking at Ice Slick, I notice that no Balance DC is mentioned. Is it 10, like Grease or is it equal to the spell's save DC?


Lesser Vigor and it's big brother!!! And it's...fat brother? I dunno. But Persisted Mass Lesser Vigor looks like lotsa fun.

That was the plan, along with Divine Favor.

Can I persist a Spiritual Weapon so that it follows me around all day?

[gomipile]

If Close Wounds is interpreted as being able to negate all the damage from a single attack as an immediate action (which AFAICT is the RAW but I suspect many DMs nerf), it's pretty great for a 2nd level spell. As your levels go up, so will the HP it heals, and it's an immediate action so it doesn't compete with most of your own economy (unless the cleric uses a lot of other swift/immediate stuff, like Travel Devotion or Celerity.)

No. It says "it effectively prevents the damage" meaning the 1d4+5, not all of the damage from the attack. It just means that if subtracting the 1d4+5 from a killing blow makes it not a killing blow, it will save the target.

I understand why you would think that it could be interpreted as "all the damage" but the damage on the table to be discussed in the spell description is only the amount that it heals for.

[Last Laugh]

None of these will work on a spell component pouch: it's flexible, has an open interior, and is made of multiple materials (leather and stitching, buckles).

I spose you could still destroy the buckle holding it up, or sometimes what it's fastened too.
But they can just pick it back up, unless mage hand.

[ericgrau]

Good point on shatter and "solid". I think some focuses would be valid targets, the "solid" ones anyway, but you need line of effect so you'd have to ready an action for when the caster casts the spell. And couldn't the spell work on non-magical holy symbols?

[Keld Denar]

Don't attended objects get a saving throw equal to their master's save? I'd think a spell component pouch worn would count as an attended object.

[ericgrau]

Yeup attended items should get a save. Not only by the save rules but also by the fact the spell says fortitudewill negates, the spell only hits nonmagical objects, and nonmagical unattended objects never get saves.

[Gnaeus]

Yeup attended items should get a save. Not only by the save rules but also by the fact the spell says fortitude negates, the spell only hits nonmagical objects, and nonmagical unattended objects never get saves.

I totally believe you, but do you know where that rule is? We had a debate about it in my last game.

[Kyouhen]

+1 for Close Wounds. Saved my party from a TPK last time. First stopped a death when an ally took enough damage to outright kill her, left her stable at -7 instead. Then saved us from TPK when I was able to survive a world-ending spell with 2 hp left.

[Keld Denar]

Is it just attended magic items? Or is it non-magical attended items too?

I found this text:

Damaging Magic Items
A magic item doesn’t need to make a saving throw unless it is unattended, it is specifically targeted by the effect, or its wielder rolls a natural 1 on his save. Magic items should always get a saving throw against spells that might deal damage to them— even against attacks from which a nonmagical item would normally get no chance to save. Magic items use the same saving throw bonus for all saves, no matter what the type (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will). A magic item’s saving throw bonus equals 2 + one-half its caster level (round down). The only exceptions to this are intelligent magic items, which make Will saves based on their own Wisdom scores.

Magic items, unless otherwise noted, take damage as nonmagical items of the same sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost.

[dextercorvia]

Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow) under object:


(object)

The spell can be cast on objects, which receive saving throws only if they are magical or if they are attended (held, worn, grasped, or the like) by a creature resisting the spell, in which case the object uses the creature’s saving throw bonus unless its own bonus is greater. (This notation does not mean that a spell can be cast only on objects. Some spells of this sort can be cast on creatures or objects.) A magic item’s saving throw bonuses are each equal to 2 + one-half the item’s caster level.


Shatter
Evocation [Sonic]
Level: Brd 2, Chaos 2, Clr 2, Destruction 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area or Target: 5-ft.-radius spread; or one solid object or one crystalline creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (object); Will negates (object) or Fortitude half; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)

Note the Fort save is for Crystalline creatures.

[navar100]

Command - a one round reprieve of the bad guy not hurting you is a big deal or even drop the item you want to take away from him or have him fall from climbing something.

Protection From Evil - Not everyone has a deflection bonus to AC, +2 to saves is always nice, keeps away summoned creatures, protects against many high level mind-affecting spells.

Bless - Seriously. Every +1 counts. Even at high level play you can still miss the bad guy by 1 or fail a saving throw vs. a fear affect by 1.

Cure Light Wounds - If only to stabilize or enough to bring someone above 0.

Detect Magic - Duh! :smallsmile:

[Ernir]

Omen of Peril, SpC. Not 100% reliable, but hey. If your god foretells much pain and suffering if you continue on your path to the Thieves' den, you may at least want to fire up your min/level buffs before entering.

[ffone]

No. It says "it effectively prevents the damage" meaning the 1d4+5, not all of the damage from the attack. It just means that if subtracting the 1d4+5 from a killing blow makes it not a killing blow, it will save the target.

I understand why you would think that it could be interpreted as "all the damage" but the damage on the table to be discussed in the spell description is only the amount that it heals for.

Thanks. That seems much more reasonable!

[CockroachTeaParty]

Omen of Peril always strikes me as something of a useless spell. I guess your character doesn't know this IC, so it's a little meta, but you as a player know that your character's future is fraught with peril. Of course there's going to be danger; you're an adventurer.

It's not like you can tailor your spell list after casting it, since divine casters receive all their spells at once at a specific time each day (I think...).

I'd rather save the slot for a spell with no inherent failure chance, and use it when I know I'm about to get in a fight, etc.

[NichG]

Omen of Peril always strikes me as something of a useless spell. I guess your character doesn't know this IC, so it's a little meta, but you as a player know that your character's future is fraught with peril. Of course there's going to be danger; you're an adventurer.


Omen of Peril is useful in any campaign where the party occasionally meets things way outside their CR, because it distinguishes between 'normal' danger and overmatched danger. Its not useful to know 'there will be danger' when approaching the goblin cave, but it is useful to know if there will be danger not commensurate with what goblins should provide (i.e. they have an ancient red dragon boss).

[CockroachTeaParty]

Omen of Peril is useful in any campaign where the party occasionally meets things way outside their CR, because it distinguishes between 'normal' danger and overmatched danger. Its not useful to know 'there will be danger' when approaching the goblin cave, but it is useful to know if there will be danger not commensurate with what goblins should provide (i.e. they have an ancient red dragon boss).

Does that really accomplish anything, though? I mean, it would almost make the game more boring, if anything. Is it not more effective dramatically to have the PCs meet the overwhelming horror, then flee or hide?

I guess that's a greater problem of divinations in general. The information you receive is often censored by Plot or Dramatics or the fickle whims of unprepared or surly DMs.

[Curmudgeon]

Does that really accomplish anything, though? I mean, it would almost make the game more boring, if anything. Is it not more effective dramatically to have the PCs meet the overwhelming horror, then flee or hide?
Fully 5% of all encounters should be of "overpowering" difficulty, according to the DMG (page 49). Blundering into situations like that on a regular basis leads to the "create a new party" boredom after yet another TPK. :smallwink:

[Jack_Simth]

I'm fond of Divine Insight (Spell Compendium) - Cleric-2, gives a fairly hefty bonus to a skill check.


Can I persist a Spiritual Weapon so that it follows me around all day?No - it doesn't have a fixed range.

[jiriku]

Anyspell is pretty handy, especially at higher levels when you have the resources to get ahold of most any low-level arcane spell your heart desires.

Mass resist energy is a part buff that you can rely on for quite some time.

[NichG]

Does that really accomplish anything, though? I mean, it would almost make the game more boring, if anything. Is it not more effective dramatically to have the PCs meet the overwhelming horror, then flee or hide?


On the contrary, IMC there's a ranger who spams this spell quite a bit. They've gone into situations that have registered 'overwhelming danger' and once a 'The spell jumps off your fingers and hides in a corner' response, just to find out what was causing those signals. Mainly the spell has given them the idea 'fleeing should be on the table if we meet this thing', as well as 'we should take this seriously and prepare'.

If you tell PCs 'there's something more powerful than most deities behind this door' its just going to make them want to open it even more :smallbiggrin:

[Waker]

Well, most of the good spells have been mentioned already, so I'll just suggest another small spell, Prayer. It's only a +1, but it's attack/damage, saves and skill checks and a -1 to enemies on all the same. Doesn't allow a save (though SR does come in) plus a decent range (80ft diameter). Also it's a Luck modifier, so not a whole lot of issues with stacking. Not horrible for a 3rd level.

[Elric VIII]

Well, most of the good spells have been mentioned already, so I'll just suggest another small spell, Prayer. It's only a +1, but it's attack/damage, saves and skill checks and a -1 to enemies on all the same. Doesn't allow a save (though SR does come in) plus a decent range (80ft diameter). Also it's a Luck modifier, so not a whole lot of issues with stacking. Not horrible for a 3rd level.

Wow, I can't believe I overlooked that one. I do use Recitation, however.