Does Time Stop...

[Loki Eremes]

Hi there Folks.
Silly but maybe good question

-Do Time stop allows you to make ranged attacks that stands still in place until the spell is over?

This problem came to my head when I read "moment to Think" from Spell Compendium, where it stated that "arrows and other things thrown stands still in mid-air until the spell was over an then they lose their momentum and dropped to the floor"


Moment to think is a lvl 0 spell (or 1, i dont remember right now)
Being Time Stop a 9th lvl spell... i wondered if it worked like that but allowing thrown or fired items to continue its movement once the spell was over.

[Tyndmyr]

By RAW, no. Can't do anything that affects another player, and attacks, even ranged attacks, definitely do.

Delayed blast fireballs are pretty solid, though.

[Loki Eremes]

By RAW, no. Can't do anything that affects another player, and attacks, even ranged attacks, definitely do.

Delayed blast fireballs are pretty solid, though.


"This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds."

This makes me think that objects that "leave" your body match the speed from non-afected creatures. (thats why i referrenced "Moment To Think")

Thats what it intrigates me.

By RAW it doenst say this cant be done, only that creatures are immune to your attacks.
A shame it do not clarifies this matter.

[Asheram]

You can't target or affect another creature while in a time-stop effect.

But then again. There's always the possibility of indirectly causing compromising situations like using telekinesis to place a huge boulder over anothers head, or using a spell to divert a lava flow his way, or digging a hole (almost) through the cliffledge where he stand.

[Yora]

I'd say you'd shoot the arrows, but they reach their target only after the time stop spell ends, at the end of your turns.

[Loki Eremes]

I'd say you'd shoot the arrows, but they reach their target only after the time stop spell ends, at the end of your turns.

Yup, this is what i was thinking :3



You can't target or affect another creature while in a time-stop effect.

But then again. There's always the possibility of indirectly causing compromising situations like using telekinesis to place a huge boulder over anothers head, or using a spell to divert a lava flow his way, or digging a hole (almost) through the cliffledge where he stand.


Thats true, but what if...
1- full attack with your bow an empty square.
2- move enemy into that square.
3- ???
4- Profit

Is that possible? xD

[Karsh]

You can't affect an enemy with telekinesis while under a Time Stop, so it wouldn't work like that.

[Loki Eremes]

You can't affect an enemy with telekinesis while under a Time Stop, so it wouldn't work like that.

Who said to move them with Telekinesis?

[Karsh]

Ok, then you can't affect an enemy in any way during Time Stop, so it still doesn't work.

[Loki Eremes]

Ok, then you can't affect an enemy in any way during Time Stop, so it still doesn't work.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm

targeting them with a SPELL or an ATTACK is different than moving them from their places.

"You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession."

But what about the creature itself?

It sounds crazy, yes. But heck, its a 9th lvl spell.

[Karsh]

It also doesn't say that you can't turn into an elephant during the duration either.

In all seriousness though, it would take a pretty big leap of logic to say that you can't move an item that a creature is holding, but that you could move the creature itself. Would that mean if you bull rushed someone while in a Time Stop that their gear would all remain frozen in place since you categorically cannot move attended items?

Or does that mean that you can only move naked creatures around under the effect of Time Stop?

[Cog]

While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell.
Arrow attacks don't take any particular time; they're treated as instantaneous, and in that instant, your target is invulnerable. That's a no go.

And if you aren't planning to use telekinesis, just how are you planning to move somebody without targeting them? Bull Rush and Grapple are attacks too.

[Tyndmyr]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm

targeting them with a SPELL or an ATTACK is different than moving them from their places.

Moving them? Like as per Bull Rush, that special ATTACK?

No. Doing things to them that affect them in harmful ways == attacks in general D&D parlance. An actual attack roll is not required for something to be an attack.

You can do lovely things that don't affect them directly, like moving, buffing, or rearranging the battlefield. The restriction is there for a reason, and firing a bunch of arrows at a person is also pretty explicitly attacking them, and therefore, is also quite disallowed by RAW.

If I'm not mistaken, Moment to Think is an immediate action spell, and thus, like abrupt jaunt, can be used to react to attacks. This is a special case in which an arrow may in fact be en route to you. A crafted contingency including a time stop might also take place in such circumstances, but the effects are not the same. Most notably, the arrows are not assumed to fall to the ground afterward.

[Loki Eremes]

So there's no way around this whatsoever?
IF you dont have spells or run away Time Stop is pretty...useless?

[Toliudar]

Hardly. You can still form walls, swarms and clouds around enemies, buff yourself, and move around. Since actions are the most precious resource in the game, it's still an extremely versatile and powerful spell.

[Cog]

So there's no way around this whatsoever?
IF you dont have spells or run away Time Stop is pretty...useless?
Well, Time Stop is itself a spell, so if you have Time Stop you're probably not worried about having spells.

[Fax Celestis]

If you have time stop, you have spells and plenty of them. Enjoy breaking the game in half while your opponents are helpless.

Time stop really isn't very sporting, now is it?

[pilvento]

So there's no way around this whatsoever?
IF you dont have spells or run away Time Stop is pretty...useless?

as the others already said, no, if u cant cast spells time stop is almost usless. the best ofensive way to use it is casting summons, or metamagic blast spells so they take effect at the end of the time stop. exept for moving into a better position non castinc PC dont need this spell. unless u want to waste resources to have a 9lvl spell to drink some potions or buff urself using wands.

[Tyndmyr]

as the others already said, no, if u cant cast spells time stop is almost usless.

It's a spell. If you have access to Time Stop, you have access to spells. It's not an issue.

Also, if English first language or not, abbreviating you as "u" isn't just bad English or a bad translation, it's chatspeak. Looks bad.

[pilvento]

Also, if English first language or not, abbreviating you as "u" isn't just bad English or a bad translation, it's chatspeak. Looks bad.

sry, the english institute was also cheap

[dextercorvia]

It's a spell. If you have access to Time Stop, you have access to spells. It's not an issue.

The exception to this is a (prepared) Swiftblade in a Dead Magic Zone. Innervated Speed is an (Ex) ability. You subsume the spell 'at the moment of casting.' Therefore, you are never actually casting the spell.

Also, if he managed to get a Persistent Haste up first, he would have all of the benefits of his class in a DMZ.

[pilvento]

The exception to this is a (prepared) Swiftblade in a Dead Magic Zone. Innervated Speed is an (Ex) ability. You subsume the spell 'at the moment of casting.' Therefore, you are never actually casting the spell.

Also, if he managed to get a Persistent Haste up first, he would have all of the benefits of his class in a DMZ.

im currently playing a swiftblade (PrC lvl is 8 now so i cant use Innervated Speed) but still, a persistent buff works in a DMZ? (is DMZ the same as an anti magic field?)

[dextercorvia]

im currently playing a swiftblade (PrC lvl is 8 now so i cant use Innervated Speed) but still, a persistent buff works in a DMZ? (is DMZ the same as an anti magic field?)

No. It is worse. I mean an area where no magic works (not even the instantaneous conjuration stuff).

Swiftblades get the Fortified Hustle ability:

"While under the effect of a haste spell that you cast yourself, the effect becomes extraordinary rather than a continuous spell effect, and therefore cannot be dispelled by any means. The haste spell otherwise functions as it normally would, is expended normally, and can be countered as a spell at the moment of casting. "

[pilvento]

No. It is worse. I mean an area where no magic works (not even the instantaneous conjuration stuff).

Swiftblades get the Fortified Hustle ability:

"While under the effect of a haste spell that you cast yourself, the effect becomes extraordinary rather than a continuous spell effect, and therefore cannot be dispelled by any means. The haste spell otherwise functions as it normally would, is expended normally, and can be countered as a spell at the moment of casting. "

so there is no really need to make it permanent, if i know im goning into a DMZ and i cast the spell before, once i go in. im at full capacity? (still cant cast spells, i know)

[Cog]

The exception to this is a (prepared) Swiftblade in a Dead Magic Zone. Innervated Speed is an (Ex) ability. You subsume the spell 'at the moment of casting.' Therefore, you are never actually casting the spell.
It's hard for there to be a moment of casting if there's no casting. I read this ability to work like Fortified Hustle; the casting is still magic, but it's (Ex) thereafter. The difference there is that you could still walk into an AMF, unlike a regular caster of Time Stop.

[dextercorvia]

You can begin casting in an AMF. It will just fizzle instead of giving a spell effect. You never make it to the spell effect, though.

[pilvento]

It's hard for there to be a moment of casting if there's no casting. I read this ability to work like Fortified Hustle; the casting is still magic, but it's (Ex) thereafter. The difference there is that you could still walk into an AMF, unlike a regular caster of Time Stop.

true, but all the other features, included perpetual options, still work, thats all what i need. we are fighting at this moment against a monster in a small AMF in oru campaing, so now im gonna walk out, cast, and go back in to KICK ASS!

dextercovia, THANK U SO MUCH

[dextercorvia]

Some of the credit goes to Curmudgeon. I was trying to build a character that would fit in his upcoming Con game. (I'm not playing in it, but it was a cool concept for an Epic level game that takes place in a world without any magic.) He linked to his site a couple of days ago, and I was just kicking around the concept. I'm not entirely sure about the time stop effect, but I do know the rest works.

[Hazzardevil]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm

targeting them with a SPELL or an ATTACK is different than moving them from their places.

"You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession."

But what about the creature itself?

It sounds crazy, yes. But heck, its a 9th lvl spell.

I think thst in time stop you can cast spells, shoot arrows and such but the following will happen:

Melee attacks: You roll teh attack immediatly and they take damage at the end of the spell,
Arrows:They stop in mid-air and the attack resolves at the end of the spell,
Spell: The whole spell is resolved at the end.

[Tyndmyr]

I think thst in time stop you can cast spells, shoot arrows and such but the following will happen:

Melee attacks: You roll teh attack immediatly and they take damage at the end of the spell,
Arrows:They stop in mid-air and the attack resolves at the end of the spell,
Spell: The whole spell is resolved at the end.

You are wrong. You need to read the spell. It answers this.

[pilvento]

true, dont try to walk arround the rules.
the only think u can say is for example that u can attak and when un roll te dmg the spell ends inmediately if ur master allows it

[Tyndmyr]

Negative. That's also not allowed by RAW. It's not "dealing damage ends the spell effect". It's a "you cannot".

Therefore, while the spell is in effect, you cannot do those things. Simple as that.

[pilvento]

Negative. That's also not allowed by RAW. It's not "dealing damage ends the spell effect". It's a "you cannot".

Therefore, while the spell is in effect, you cannot do those things. Simple as that.

thats why i said "if ur master allows it"

and still, RAW IS RAW PEOPLE! :smallfurious:

[Asheram]

thats why i said "if ur master allows it"

and still, RAW IS RAW PEOPLE! :smallfurious:


Time Stop
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Trickery 9
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1d4+1 rounds (apparent time); see text

This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcasters use the additional time to improve their defenses, summon allies, or flee from combat.

You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession.

You are undetectable while time stop lasts. You cannot enter an area protected by an antimagic field while under the effect of time stop.

From the SRD. Bolded parts are important and reprinted

While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell.

You can't attack, target or harm the other person in Any Way

And please, I don't want to complain but could you use proper spelling? It's important to know that we are arguing about the same thing and without proper use of language we can't be completely sure.

Edit: My apologies, I see that english is not your first language, but could you stop using contractions in that case? It's somewhat confusing.

[Loki Eremes]

So there's no way around this whatsoever?
IF you dont have spells or run away Time Stop is pretty...useless?



Hardly. You can still form walls, swarms and clouds around enemies, buff yourself, and move around. Since actions are the most precious resource in the game, it's still an extremely versatile and powerful spell.



If you have time stop, you have spells and plenty of them. Enjoy breaking the game in half while your opponents are helpless.

Time stop really isn't very sporting, now is it?


"if you DONT HAVE SPELLS" part.... :smallamused:


Now, there are other ways around to have a spell. Scrolls & Legacy items for example.



From the SRD. Bolded parts are important and reprinted

While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell.

You can't attack, target or harm the other person in Any Way

And please, I don't want to complain but could you use proper spelling? It's important to know that we are arguing about the same thing and without proper use of language we can't be completely sure.

Edit: My apologies, I see that english is not your first language, but could you stop using contractions in that case? It's somewhat confusing.


As I said at the very beggining of this thread, I was not hopping to damage any creature during the recording of this movie Time Stop Effect, but was intrigated by the effect of stopping time itself.
I quoted "Moment to Think" because of this. "objects thrown stand still in mid-air for the spell duration". This being said, i was hopping to full attack during Time Stop "extra" rounds and then all this arrows go after the enemy when the spell worn out.

[Scarlet-Devil]

As I said at the very beggining of this thread, I was not hopping to damage any creature during the recording of this movie Time Stop Effect, but was intrigated by the effect of stopping time itself.
I quoted "Moment to Think" because of this. "objects thrown stand still in mid-air for the spell duration". This being said, i was hopping to full attack during Time Stop "extra" rounds and then all this arrows go after the enemy when the spell worn out.

Right, it's been said to death already, but I'd like to throw in my two cents anyway: by RAW, you cannot harm, cannot even target anyone with anything; by RAW it does not work. Now, I would definitely ask your DM about doing this, if you were interested in playing a character that could pull it off; if I were DMing, I would absolutely allow it to work that way (for the coolness factor), in fact I would be honored if the cheesiest thing my player wanted to do (at that level) was pull a Dio Brando :smallcool:.

[Loki Eremes]

Right, it's been said to death already, but I'd like to throw in my two cents anyway: by RAW, you cannot harm, cannot even target anyone with anything; by RAW it does not work. Now, I would definitely ask your DM about doing this, if you were interested in playing a character that could pull it off; if I were DMing, I would absolutely allow it to work that way (for the coolness factor)


At last someone understands me TT_TT



in fact I would be honored if the cheesiest thing my player wanted to do (at that level) was pull a Dio Brando :smallcool:.

or maybe... =w=
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/238/584340-sakuya_10.jpg

...Need to visit your signature link sometime

[Scarlet-Devil]

or maybe... =w=
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/238/584340-sakuya_10.jpg

...Need to visit your signature link sometime

Precisely :smallbiggrin:, and yes you do :smallwink:.

Edit: We're currently thinking about Tenshi, by the way.

[gomipile]

Although creating walls of iron and force around them, and placing a pre-shrunk (Shrink Item) 4000 lb. object shaped like the cutter in a julienne fry press above them is pretty choice. If you are really good at describing stuff, you can have the julienne cutter and another object above it with spikes which extend down through the holes in the julienne cutter.

40d6 of falling damage and being trapped under heavy sharp objects can't be a good start to the day.

[Wings of Peace]

No. It is worse. I mean an area where no magic works (not even the instantaneous conjuration stuff). "

What book is the dead magic zone in anyways? I always forget and the only book I know I've seen them in is a FR book that stated they only apply to weave users.

There's the Dead Magic planar trait of course but that just emulates a global anti-magic field.

[Mastikator]

I think it's time to kill catgirls.

A timestop lasts 1d4+1 rounds, a round is 6 seconds, so it lasts between 12 and 30 seconds, on average 21. And for everyone else it goes on for less than a second, lets say 1/10th of a second. So you're moving 210 times faster than normal.
In terms of kinetic energy (E=m/2 * v^2), that's 22500 times as much energy! So if you physically smack someone, the impact delivers 22500 times as much energy. Therefore dealing 22500 as much damage.

Another way of interpreting it is that you need to deliver 22500 as much energy to make any change, thus if you want the foe to receive 1 damage you'll have to deal 22500 damage.

[stainboy]

It also doesn't say that you can't turn into an elephant during the duration either.


My first thought when I read this was "why couldn't the wizard turn into an elephant? Is there a No-Polymorph-in-Timestop rule?"

E: Any interpretation of RAW Time Stop that would allow arrows would also allow ranged touch spells. That sounds like it would be broken, even in Moon Logic World where Time Stop isn't broken already. You might consider getting your bullet-time arrow volley by researching a new spell.

[BobVosh]

My first thought when I read this was "why couldn't the wizard turn into an elephant? Is there a No-Polymorph-in-Timestop rule?"

Glad it wasn't just me.

Also can you change the title to Does Time Stop...
The grammar nazi in me cringes in pain.

[Tyndmyr]

Although creating walls of iron and force around them, and placing a pre-shrunk (Shrink Item) 4000 lb. object shaped like the cutter in a julienne fry press above them is pretty choice. If you are really good at describing stuff, you can have the julienne cutter and another object above it with spikes which extend down through the holes in the julienne cutter.

40d6 of falling damage and being trapped under heavy sharp objects can't be a good start to the day.

Oh yeah. Setting up horrible, horrible things to happen immediately AFTER the time stop expires is completely legit. Delayed blast fireballs, deadfalls, Maw of Chaos...the list goes on and on.

[drakir_nosslin]

Do Time Stop...

Yes, yes it does... :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, no you can't attack or move people by RAW, no it's not overpowering to be allowed to punch someone in the face instead of conjuring all kinds of nasty tricks while they can't do anything to stop you.

0.02 €

[huttj509]

1:40-2:16, Squall fighting Ultimecia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUhdOtc194M)

Yay time stop!

[Tyndmyr]

It would be terribly boring, though. The current rules on time stop make you at least think about it a little bit. I like those restrictions in place.

Otherwise, my battle plan would always look like celerity, time stop, blast. And it would always work, and be terribly boring.

[drakir_nosslin]

It would be terribly boring, though. The current rules on time stop make you at least think about it a little bit. I like those restrictions in place.

Otherwise, my battle plan would always look like celerity, time stop, blast. And it would always work, and be terribly boring.

Boring? Yes. Overpowered? No. That's how I see it at least. Unless you play a mailman, blasting isn't really worth it, even in a time stop.

[Tyndmyr]

Once the action economy is utterly broken, the amount of rounds taken to kill someone is pretty irrelevant. So, blasting, SoDs, whatever. It doesn't actually matter.

[dextercorvia]

What book is the dead magic zone in anyways? I always forget and the only book I know I've seen them in is a FR book that stated they only apply to weave users.

There's the Dead Magic planar trait of course but that just emulates a global anti-magic field.

Sorry, I wasn't quoting from anywhere. I didn't realize the name had been used. I know there are a few ways around AMF, and I was trying to say an AMF that can't be circumvented.

[Tyndmyr]

Those don't exist. Initiate of Mystra explicitly works in Dead magic areas, for example.

[Chess435]

1. Time Stop
2. Cloudkill
3. Dimension Lock
4. Forcecage
5. ??????
6. Profit!!!

[AtomicKitKat]

Moment to think is a lvl 0 spell (or 1, i dont remember right now)
Being Time Stop a 9th lvl spell... i wondered if it worked like that but allowing thrown or fired items to continue its movement once the spell was over.

Not in D&D, but in Ultima Underworld, watch out!:smallbiggrin: *still remembers disintegrating scores of arrows because he forgot fireballs move faster than projectiles*

[Tyndmyr]

1. Time Stop
2. Cloudkill
3. Dimension Lock
4. Forcecage
5. ??????
6. Profit!!!

A classic, but Im more of a fan of:

1. Time Stop.
2. Maw of Chaos
3. Maw of Chaos
4. Maw of Chaos.
5. ???
6. Manical laughter.

[Chess435]

A classic, but Im more of a fan of:

1. Time Stop.
2. Maw of Chaos
3. Maw of Chaos
4. Maw of Chaos.
5. ???
6. Manical laughter.

http://vinteeage.com/product-images/can-t-touch-this-t-shirt-vintage-t-shirt-review-vintage-cotton-vintage-cotton-3.jpg