What gestalts well with a cleric? 3.5

[gallagher]

so i am in a 3.5 game, where my DM just started trying to use TOB. on one side i was a cleric/radiant servant of pelor, and on the other a paladin of freedom2/crusader8. as you can see, my role was that of a melee cleric.

problem: my DM feels that TOB is a bit too complicated to just jump into, so he is asking me to change out my levels of crusader, and he will try running a game with TOB at some later time after he gets the hang of it.

and that is where i need help, as i am indecisive.

i would rather persist things other than divine power, but i can use that as an option if i need to. i would like to keep my levels of paladin for the saves, but dont much feel like running the sorcadin. i have a reach weapon and adamantine fullplate, but i can probably ask to change out some of my equipment to fit my new character.

what class should i go on the other side? i have 8 levels to play with (level 10, 2 levels of pally of freedom). i was considering ranger but i dont like archery and TWF doesnt really fit what i already have.

and on a slightly related note, does Delay Death and Diehard work together like i think it does?

[SurlySeraph]

No ToB? You might consider gestalting Psychic Warrior or Ardent levels for the Wis synergy, but you'll probably spend enough time buffing as it is. Doing that and going Tashalatora would be an option, if it fits your fluff.
Using various full BAB PrCs, or even going straight Paladin for the mount, is an option.

And yep, Delay Death and Diehard work like that. It's more common to use Beastland Ferocity, a spell that essentially grants the effects of Diehard, than to actually take Endurance and Diehard, but you can do that.

[gallagher]

also no psionics. i already asked about going monk2/psychic warrior 6 on the other side

[Telonius]

Ranger does synergize fairly well.

While it doesn't offer any Reflex save advantage, Knight is actually a decent choice. Knight's Challenge is keyed off Charisma, which is also a secondary stat for Clerics thanks to turn undead. Full BAB, a bunch of nifty goodies, and loads of hitpoints. (Also note that one of the Knight's bonus feats is Diehard).

EDIT: Brain didn't register that "of freedom" after the Paladin...

Barbarian maybe?

[Ernir]

No ToB or Psionics?

I'd say Incarnate or Totemist, but I have a feeling that wouldn't work very well either.


I say Fighter (yes, really. It's a weak class normally, but Cleric shores up 99% of the weaknesses). Spend your normal feats on Cleric stuff, kill people in the face with well-picked Fighter feats. Make sure you're a Cloistered Cleric.

[Gnaeus]

Can you take LA or RDH on one side? If yes, options like Half-Celestial become very valid. Or anything else with a big Wis+ and nice abilities.

Wildshape Ranger 5/MOMF 5?

[Darth Stabber]

I am assuming Incarnum is right out, if not Incarnate is awesome.
Monk is actually a shiny option, since it's good abilities are non-actions and cleric's are actions (good action economy). In general, it is better to pick a class with a ton of passive abilities if your other half is a caster or ToB.

Recomendations
Monk - wisdom synergy, can dump the armor and move as fast as you like while maintaining a respectable AC.

Fighter - Clerics hit people, fighters get feats to get better at hitting people, You do the math. Plus better weapons.

Barbarian - Be the vengence of the gods. Rage turns off spell casting, but most of the time your spells will be precombat buffs anyway.

Favored soul - unorthadox, but you have the ability to get your most used spells as spont casting, allowing you to prep more situational stuff.

Saint Template, trade 2 lvls for awesome stat bonuses and some cool abilities. The stat bonuses include wis and cha.

Also according to errata, you may not apply DMM to arcane spells so sorcerer or wizard persistance is right out. (Imagine how the dread necromancer feels)

[Keld Denar]

Hellreaver! Fiendish Codex II. Its fun AND useful. Lots of swift action stuff, so it doesn't really interfere with your cleric mojo or your melee mojo. Paladin5 gets you in easy, although something like Paladin2/Fighter2/Barbarian1 might be better. You don't need Pal4 as you get TU from your cleric side.

[Telonius]

Ooohh .. another option would be Divine Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantDivineBard) . Split of Wisdom- and Charisma-based casting (Wisdom to cast the spell, Charisma for everything else), lots of skill points, good Reflex save, a bunch of spells normally only accessible to a Cleric via stinky cheese, and UMD as a class skill. Depending on how your DM rules, your Divine Bard might not incur spell failure chance from wearing heavy armor. (Armor causes arcane failure, not divine failure).

[Stallion]

Barbarian into Champion of Gwynharwyf. Rage no longer turns off spellcasting.


Dragonfire Adept. Just because it's that cool, and setting up your own battlefield control is wonderful.


Factotum. Just because it's that useful.


Marshal dip. Again, just useful.


Druid. Because combining two ridiculous Tier 1 classes just makes me chuckle so ridiculously much.


Fist of Raziel. Maybe more so if you just enjoy smiting things.


Fighter into X or just fighter. Because feats. Lovely feats.


Swordsage. Because shiny maneuvers help a melee cleric even more.

[Morbis Meh]

(Wild Shape variant) Ranger 5/Master of many forms X with that and natural spell and armor that sticks with you while you go into wild shape you can buff yourself while in wildshape (especially if you DMM your cleric). Btw what deity do you follow and what are your domains? Also what race are you and are you taking any flaws.

[Goonthegoof]

Seconded for templates. Half celestial saint lesser aasimar on one side, cleric on the other. If you're looking for extra power you should take a level or two of monk and then go swiftblade on the non cleric side, even if you don't have any arcane spellcasting to improve, though you could consider taking a level of knight of the weave or something just to benefit from swiftblade's +6 spellcasting over 10 levels.

Swiftblade is incredibly good for a caster if you're gestalting with the highlights being a permanent 50% concealment and 50% chance for any individually targeted spell to miss and an extra standard action each round.

[gallagher]

Seconded for templates. Half celestial saint lesser aasimar on one side, cleric on the other. If you're looking for extra power you should take a level or two of monk and then go swiftblade on the non cleric side, even if you don't have any arcane spellcasting to improve, though you could consider taking a level of knight of the weave or something just to benefit from swiftblade's +6 spellcasting over 10 levels.

Swiftblade is incredibly good for a caster if you're gestalting with the highlights being a permanent 50% concealment and 50% chance for any individually targeted spell to miss and an extra standard action each round.

i am not allowed to completely rebuild, just fill in the gaps that crusader used to fill.

i talked to my DM, and he said he doesnt care about prestige classing on both sides as long as i dont "get too carried away"

but i have to keep my cleric/RSoP on one side, and i was thinking ranger1/fighter2/X2/holy liberator 5 to get the paladin-y goodness. next level i am going to get that celestial companion, and i think i am going with a housecat (just for sillies. his name will be mister frumplebum)

so if i go with that, what should i get with those 2 levels i have not decided yet?

also, where can i find swiftblade? and he said no templates, i have to stick with my human with 2 flaws. he is ok with what i have just suggested because then i am only changing my class levels on one side but am keeping my character concept (i mean i pretty much am still playing a paladin of freedom, im just now called a holy liberator instead)

[gallagher]

also, does diehard+delay death work like i think it does? will i just stay up nomatter how many hitpoints i lose? because that spell is persisted (and my party knows it so they know to just slip me a potion or something)

i know that death effects will still work the same, but if i can just soak up infinite hitpoint damage and stay fighting then i became the worlds greatest meatshield. it no longer matters if i am wearing armor or not

[chaos_redefined]

I'm gonna agree with cleric//druid being stupid-powerful. Not only do you get the self-buffs that clerics use to make the enemies pancake-shaped, you get to do it as a bear. And your pet gets the benefits of your self-buffs as well.

[Goonthegoof]

Persistent delay death is kind of cheesy, but on the other hand if it gets dispelled you die instantly.

Swiftblade is here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327), and if you're allowed a prestige class on both sides then perhaps keep the paladin levels, take a couple of levels of cobra strike variant monk for the AC bonus, evasion and easy qualification for swiftblade. Make sure you have the Time domain so you can get haste to qualify (you probably want time anyway, contingency is an excellent spell for clerics) and take your fifth level as sorcerer or something so you have arcane spellcasting for your swiftblade to boost.

Putting that all together, it would look something like

Cleric 10/Paladin 2/Monk 2/Sorcerer 1/Swiftblade 5.

Alternately if you're allowed mystic theurge you could take mystic theurge instead of cleric for the levels that swiftblade doesn't boost arcane spellcasting.

[paddyfool]

but i have to keep my cleric/RSoP on one side, and i was thinking ranger1/fighter2/X2/holy liberator 5 to get the paladin-y goodness.

You're Tier 1 on the other side, so you could just go Fighter 4 and not miss out on much. Alternatively, maybe take a third level of Pally for the immunities and a level of Barb for fast mvt and Rage (with or without wolf or spirit lion totems) and a level of martial rogue to give you a feat + skill points?

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I recommend Barbarian 1/Fighter 6/Champion of Gwynharwyf X, taking the Spiritual Lion Totem (CC), Whirling Frenzy (UA), and Dungeon crasher (Dungeonscape) variants. Hulk up with persisted Righteous Might and go to town crashing people into walls.

If you want to get really mean, start with a big or counts-as-big race like Goliath, slap the LA onto the melee side (definitely worth a point of BaB and some HP), and get Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Knockback and Shock Trooper. Suddenly you're sending enemies every which way across the battlefield, OHKOing lesser foes, and you're a full caster to boot.