On Elven Gods

[Cybertoy00]

This is basically an idea I concieved while blitzed on a Dairy Queen ice cream yesterday, and it won't leave me alone, so please bear with me.
Are the Elven Gods based off of the fairies/elves of Shakespearian lore? Y'know, Puck, Tiffania, Oberon, the works. I know we haven't actually seen or heard the names of these guys, so this idea is more like a concept, like "what IF the Elven Gods were based on Shakespear lore" or something like that.
Any thoughts?

[G-Man Graves]

Um... I guess it COULD work? I mean, there's nothing that supports or refutes it. And it has an insignificant impact on the story. So whatever floats your boat, man.

[HappyBlanket]

What Elven Gods, again?

[NerfTW]

What Elven Gods, again?

Varsuvius mentions Elven gods when Elan first does his "Church of Banjo" spiel. And a few other times as well, with them being gods of knowledge. Then during the Crayons of Time flashback, it says "Some even raised their own gods, like the Elves and the goblins". I believe they're also mentioned in Start of Darkness as well.

I would very much expect to see them at some point, given that we've seen every other group by now.

[doliest]

I think it was mentioned that they, essientially, raised themselves. They gained enough knowledge/power that they became gods, and the elves have worshipped them since.

I think. Was that mentioned?

[NerfTW]

I think it was mentioned that they, essientially, raised themselves. They gained enough knowledge/power that they became gods, and the elves have worshipped them since.

I think. Was that mentioned?

I'm guessing I ninjaed you. Yes, it's mentioned in the Crayons of Time story, and in SOD

The Dark One is raised by a similar process of being revered by most demi-humans

[HappyBlanket]

Oh. I just figured that by "Elven Gods" we were referring to something named, since this thread is about the naming scheme for the Elven Gods.

Not that there actually is a naming scheme, much less names.

Edit: OP, you sure that was ice cream you were on?

[factotum]

Are the Elven Gods based off of the fairies/elves of Shakespearian lore?

We've not seen them and we don't know their names. How are we supposed to know the answer to this? You might as well ask "Are the Elven Gods based off of the Manchester United reserve team?"--it would be about as meaningful.

[Mr. Snuggles]

This is basically an idea I concieved while blitzed on a Dairy Queen ice cream yesterday, and it won't leave me alone, so please bear with me.
Are the Elven Gods based off of the fairies/elves of Shakespearian lore? Y'know, Puck, Tiffania, Oberon, the works. I know we haven't actually seen or heard the names of these guys, so this idea is more like a concept, like "what IF the Elven Gods were based on Shakespear lore" or something like that.
Any thoughts?
You're totally alone here, man. WTF?

1. If the writer was a fan of Shakespeare, we would have been deluged with Shakespeare references by now.

2. Shakespeare did not invent Puck, Oberon, or the rest of them. They are all characters in classical mythology that Shakespeare incorporated into his work. You might as well say that Thor is a character of OOTS lore, or that Tiamat is a character of the 1st Edition Monster Manual. :smallannoyed:

{Scrubbed}

[Gift Jeraff]

They should totally have the names of the Roman gods and just be the Eastern gods with pointy ears.

But seriously, there's a cleric in Team Peregrine, so I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

[zimmerwald1915]

1. If the writer was a fan of Shakespeare, we would have been deluged with Shakespeare references by now.
There isn't much English literature that is not influenced by Shakespeare in some fashion. Additionally, one can be a fan of some author or work and not pepper one's own writing with deliberate and explicit references.


But seriously, there's a cleric in Team Peregrine, so I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.
What makes you think we'll be shown Team Peregrine anytime soon? Azure City's goings-on have nothing to do with the current arc, except insofar as they impact on how long it takes the Hobbos to find Xykon's phylactery. It would be pointless to show us this process, and we will know when the phylactery is found when Xykon makes his appearence. The only way Team Peregrine could possibly be relevant to the current arc is if they find Xykon's phylactery before the Hobbos do, and try to keep it from them or destroy it. Even then, there's no reason for us to be shown this any time soon.

[Gift Jeraff]

I meant soon enough as in "eventually."

EDIT: And we already cut to Team Evil & Peregrine in this arc without anyone finding the phylactery, so I don't think that really matters.

[The Pilgrim]

"Are the Elven Gods based off of the Manchester United reserve team?"

That would be great. OOTS is supposed to be comedy, after all. So I support this idea. :smallbiggrin:

[sims796]

The REAL question is...

What flavor was the Dairy Queen?

[Themrys]

I hope they are some parody version of the pantheon of Tolkien's elves. Without gender! :smalltongue:

Oh, and probably they are a lot less interested in knowledge than Vaarsuvius thinks. :smallbiggrin:

[Deliverance]

What if the elven gods are ninja robots shooting laser beams out of their eyes?

That would explain why the elven ambassador glares at V whenever they meet. It is an ancient elvish ritual challenge to explain yourself, just like when the first elvish ninja robot elevated itself to godhood and stared down the existing gods into accepting it.

It would also explain why V wasn't willing to turn heretic, not even for an espresso machine.

I know we haven't actually seen or heard anything to support this theory, so this idea is more like a concept.

Any thoughts?

[hewhosaysfish]

What if the elven gods are ninja robots shooting laser beams out of their eyes?

I certainly hope so. I hope this is what Rich has in mind.
And if he does decide to go with the Man U idea, we should totally make our own webcomic, with this as the premise.
It could be set in a seminary for young Elven Clerics.
The story would be about the trials and heartaches of 5 novices who find their lives torn apart when the church schism over whether the gods are ninja robots or robot ninjas, and the Elven Kingdom plunges into civil war.

[Fontaine]

What if the elven gods are ninja robots shooting laser beams out of their eyes?

That would explain why the elven ambassador glares at V whenever they meet. It is an ancient elvish ritual challenge to explain yourself, just like when the first elvish ninja robot elevated itself to godhood and stared down the existing gods into accepting it.

It would also explain why V wasn't willing to turn heretic, not even for an espresso machine.

I know we haven't actually seen or heard anything to support this theory, so this idea is more like a concept.

Any thoughts?

Is this serious? Its so ridiculous...It may actually WORK!

[Themrys]

It would also explain why V wasn't willing to turn heretic, not even for an espresso machine.

V would (possibly) have turned heretic had it been a real espresso machine, not only a piece of cardboard with "espresso machine" written on it.

I just read that strip again.
Sadly, the ancient elven god of knowledge is not gender ambigous, it's a he. There goes my beautiful theory...:smallfrown:

[Deliverance]

V would (possibly) have turned heretic had it been a real espresso machine, not only a piece of cardboard with "espresso machine" written on it.

Truly V was tempted and had impure thoughts, but even a working espresso machine would not have swayed him from the true path.



I just read that strip again.
Sadly, the ancient elven god of knowledge is not gender ambigous, it's a he. There goes my beautiful theory...:smallfrown:
Since "he" is the correct third person singular for anybody whose gender is unknown to you in the English language, and since V does not consider gender to be of general interest or importance, we cannot conclude from V denoting his* ancient elvish ninja robot god of knowledge as "he", that he is a male ninja robot god or, indeed, that he has any discernible sex at all or that the question even applies.


* which usage doesn't indicate the gender of V either, since V's gender is ambiguous. Unlike with ninja robot gods, however, we are pretty sure that all elves actually have a gender, and that there are two possible genders.

[Themrys]

Since "he" is the correct third person singular for anybody whose gender is unknown to you in the English language.

This does not seem to apply to the language the OotS cast uses, since they would refer to V as "he" in that case.
Also, I got the impression that "he" is only used if one doesn't know the person, not if one doesn't know the person's gender. Otherwise, V would be referred to as "he" by everyone on the forum.

If that ancient god is a robot, it has neither gender nor sex. Whereas elves, while there may be sexes, don't seem to have genders.


(Also, the strip in which V refers to the elven god as "he" seems to be pre-gender-ambigiousness running gag, which means that Rich intends this god to be male...but since we would have to drop all the funny discussions of V's gender if that argument were to be considered valid, I won't use it here :smallwink:)

[Deliverance]

This does not seem to apply to the language the OotS cast uses, since they would refer to V as "he" in that case.
Also, I got the impression that "he" is only used if one doesn't know the person, not if one doesn't know the person's gender. Otherwise, V would be referred to as "he" by everyone on the forum.

The forum population, as a whole, is not a good source of knowledge on the proper usage of the English language. The verbal constructs it has come up with to avoid saying "he" approaches that of the silliest of radical feminists.

Third person gender-neutral singular is "he", no ifs or buts about it.



If that ancient god is a robot, it has neither gender nor sex.

It does not follow from the definition of a robot that the robot be genderless and sexless. Indeed, it is possible to conceive of robot species with any number of sexes that working together ensure reproduction.



Whereas elves, while there may be sexes, don't seem to have genders.

I am not entirely sure what you base this on. :smallsmile:



(Also, the strip in which V refers to the elven god as "he" seems to be pre-gender-ambigiousness running gag, which means that Rich intends this god to be male...but since we would have to drop all the funny discussions of V's gender if that argument were to be considered valid, I won't use it here :smallwink:)
Truly the creator works in mysterious ways, his miracles not our to question.

[Themrys]

Since I don't want to be banned from the forums, I won't comment on your opinion on feminism.

However, if you think that there is a definition of proper English that doesn't derive from the usage of English, you have to acknowledge that gender is not the same as sex, and that robots don't have sexes since they don't procreate in that way. :smallsigh:

[zimmerwald1915]

However, if you think that there is a definition of proper English that doesn't derive from the usage of English, you have to acknowledge that gender is not the same as sex, and that robots don't have sexes since they don't procreate in that way. :smallsigh:
No currently existing robots do, but it is possible to imagine robots that exchange pseudo-genetic material in a manner analogous to human males and females. Of course, such robots would probably be "life" and not robots as such...

[/silly derail]

[Deliverance]

Since I don't want to be banned from the forums, I won't comment on your opinion on feminism.

That is good, because I have not expressed my opinion on feminism.

I have noted one trait of certain radical feminists that I find silly, and that is all. There are radicals in every movement, and radicals often do things that appear silly to those who take no part in their movement or who give it less of a priority, whether it is peculiarities of linguistics, dress codes, eating habits, rituals, or behaviour in general. That's just how it goes and it would be a boring world were it otherwise.



However, if you think that there is a definition of proper English that doesn't derive from the usage of English, you have to acknowledge that gender is not the same as sex, and that robots don't have sexes since they don't procreate in that way. :smallsigh:
No currently human created robots are capable of what we would consider reproduction, whether sexual or asexual. That, however, does not preclude the existence of such robots some time in the future, nor does it prevent us from conceiving such.

[Dvandemon]

This is basically an idea I concieved while blitzed on a Dairy Queen ice cream yesterday, and it won't leave me alone, so please bear with me.
Are the Elven Gods based off of the fairies/elves of Shakespearian lore? Y'know, Puck, Tiffania, Oberon, the works. I know we haven't actually seen or heard the names of these guys, so this idea is more like a concept, like "what IF the Elven Gods were based on Shakespear lore" or something like that.
Any thoughts?

I'd prefer if they were based on powerful fae like the Ao Seelie or the Anwyn (spell that right?)

[Amridell]

Arwen.

On topic:
I like the idea of Fey gods. It just seems natural. Oh yeah, I'm actually fairly good with paint, I could start making a webcomic/soap opera for those clerics,wizards,and fighters...if I get the drive.

[Dr.Epic]

I thought there was only one? Also, I doubt it. Rich hasn't hinted at this in any way. It'd be like saying the Dark One is based on David Bowie's character from Labyrinth because they were both powerful goblins. That would make some interesting Domain choices though.

[Pentachoron]

That would make some interesting Domain choices though.


His domains would be: Bad Teeth, Moral Ambiguity, Song, and Awkward Bulginess one would assume.