What School should I give up?

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

So I am playing a Sorcerer 5/Sand Shaper 1/Incantrix 10/Fate Spinner 4

Due to the Incantrix I have to give up one school, divination and evocation are out. What school should I give up? For refrence my stats are:
Str:5, Dex:19, Con:17, Int:18, Wis:13, Cha:20 without points applied every 4 levels.

[Waker]

You mean Divination and Abjuration are out right?
Anyways, what role do you play in the party? And do you have any hint as to what your campaign will involve?

[BobVosh]

Necromancy would be my choice. Possibly enchantment, but I can't remember if fate spinner is the ench or ill PrC.

[Coidzor]

Well, what're your current spells and what do you want to do?

[Zaydos]

I'd say Necromancy or Enchantment, though it depends upon what you want to do in the party.

[Vangor]

Illusion (or Enchantment, I am partial to Enchantment, though), Necromancy, and Evocation as Divination is not permitted to be prohibited. If ignored for you, I would still keep Divination, but if the choice is gone then keep Illusion.

[Daftendirekt]

Yeah, I'd say Illusion or Necromancy. While they both have their extremely fun uses, they seem less necessary to me than say Conjuration or Abjuration.

[[CLASSIFIED]]

Personally, I would say ban Evocation unless you want to be a blaster, as I believe that it is generally regarded as the weakest school. Also, even if you do want to be a blaster, Conjuration is (arguably) better for blasting than Evocation anyway.

[Zaydos]

;10444455']Personally, I would say ban Evocation unless you want to be a blaster, as I believe that it is generally regarded as the weakest school. Also, even if you do want to be a blaster, Conjuration is (arguably) better for blasting than Evocation anyway.

That's true for wizards, but the best sorcerer blast spell is Wings of Flurry which is evocation (uncapped force damage, ally friendly AoE which dazes on a failed save).

[Dr.Epic]

You could just go illusions if you don't anticipate your character using many of those spells.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Thanks I think I will go with Illusion. The reason evocation and divination wern't options are because I need divination for fate spinner and I am useing fell drain magic missle.:smallbiggrin:

[arguskos]

Thanks I think I will go with Illusion. The reason evocation and divination wern't options are because I need divination for fate spinner and I am useing fell drain magic missle.:smallbiggrin:
I wouldn't cut Illusion. It has so many CRAZY powerful defensive spells that cutting it is a serious mistake (if only because of Greater Mirror Image). I would lose Enchantment before I'd lose Illusion. Given that you're a blaster sorc (as indicated above), Enchantment offers you little, while Illusion offers you powerful defensive options. Definitely cut it.

[Goonthegoof]

Necromancy also doesn't have very many spells that you'd want to regularly use, it's a pretty decent school to lose if you're a sorcerer.

[Doc Roc]

I find enchantment really quite useless, but that's more to do with playstyle, in some cases. You can lose necromancy, but there's a couple really phenomenal spells in there.

[pinwiz]

I built something similar recently. I picked spells before I decided to go with incantatrix. The concept is a quick casting blasty sorcerer. Looking at my spell list, the most expendable spell school taking into account spells I really liked as well as spells I felt I needed to stay reasonably useful beyond damage, was Enchantment. The only Enchantment spells I wanted for the character were the charm and hold spells. So I dumped Enchantment. I wouldn't do Illusion for the reason that it's invisibility's school, and that spell is just too fun. :smallbiggrin:

[Waker]

Many people dislike Enchantment spells because there are many monsters immune to them (constructs, undead, plants, oozes) but there are some very powerful spells available from that school. Have you seen the kinda havoc that throwing a well-timed Tasha's Hideous Laughter or Confusion can wreak? Touch of Idiocy or Feeblemind can completely ruin some opponents. And that's ignoring the obvious spells like charm/suggest/dominate. Or if you want some real silly fun, try using Entice Gift from Spell Compendium.
One of my players is an Master Enchanter. I've seen firsthand the kinda madness that comes from that school.

[Tyndmyr]

Necromancy would be my choice. Possibly enchantment, but I can't remember if fate spinner is the ench or ill PrC.

Agreed. My current wizards banned schools are necromancy and illusion. Both enchantment and illusion suffer from the problem of being easy to shut down with Mind Blank and True Seeing, respectively.

The more challenging the opponent, the more likely they are to be able to counter those schools. Therefore, they suck most in the situations you most need them.

The bright side of enchantment is there's always someone unprotected somewhere, unless your DM really hates you. And that person is now your friend/slave/minion.

[Gullintanni]

I would dump Enchantment before Illusion in a heartbeat. Greater Invisibility is entirely too useful...ignoring the plethora of other useful spells.

[Tyndmyr]

Again, see invisibility and true seeing shuts that down in a heartbeat. Considering you get things like teleport and scrying...and invisibility is commonly available via items anyhow, it's not really that big a deal.

Dominate and Mindrape are awesome though. And even if mind blank does shut them down...you only need to be successful once to get permanent allies.

[NeverSleep]

I think we're forgetting that incanters need to drop an additional school. So 3 total.

And the prc won't allow abj or div either.

I'm in the same boat now actually. Dropped evo, enchant, but can't decide on 3rd.

[Gullintanni]

Again, see invisibility and true seeing shuts that down in a heartbeat. Considering you get things like teleport and scrying...and invisibility is commonly available via items anyhow, it's not really that big a deal.

Dominate and Mindrape are awesome though. And even if mind blank does shut them down...you only need to be successful once to get permanent allies.

See Invisibility and True Seeing work, but a lot of monsters don't have access to these...so IMHO still worth it. Agreed that permanent allies are awesome though. I tend towards necromancy to do that job for me mind you...but that's just because I prefer Debuffing via Necromancy better than via enchantment.

It's probably just a matter of taste. Enchantment or Illusion are probably the schools to ban. One or the other, not both.

[FMArthur]

If you're going for the Persistent Spell Incantrix madness, then you will sorely feel Illusion's absence if you drop it, which has truly amazing defensive spells that can protect you all day through Incantrix.

[Tyndmyr]

That third school is rough...but even worse is what happens when it's your fourth school. Focused specialist is awesome, sure, but it really hurts to take four schools off your possibilities.

On the plus side, for incantatrix, you can get a bunch of spells for the school before you drop it.

[FMArthur]

The OP is using a Sorcerer. Only one school needs dropping with Incantrix.

[NeverSleep]

The OP is using a Sorcerer. Only one school needs dropping with Incantrix.

Whoops, my bad. Should read more carefully.

That said, drop enchantment. :-)

[Tyndmyr]

If you're only dropping one, your choices are illusion, enchantment, evocation, and necromancy. Those are the weak schools.

Look at the build, and drop whatever you don't plan to get higher level spells of. Lower level spells, meh. They stay with you. Since you already have sand shaper, it's not really that big of a deal.

[Eldariel]

Illusion I'd count as the 3rd most powerful school, behind Conjuration and Transmutation. Dropping it is a serious drop in power, as well. Enchantment, on the other hand, is mostly replicable through other means and extremely easy to defend against as well, making it somewhat impractical especially when dealing with entities of a higher level.

[dspeyer]

Illusion may be worth keeping just for the shadow spells. As a sorcerer, you can't suddenly prepare some obscure utility conjuration because you expect to need it today, but you can shadow it.

Still, everything depends on what you want to do and what you expect to face.

[blazingshadow]

ninjaed :(

[valadil]

Which Incantatrix are you playing? IIRC correctly, the 3.0 one lets you cast spells previously learned, but blocks you from learning new spells of a prohibited school. I'm not sure if the 3.5 one has a similar loophole.

If this is the case, consider what schools offer good low level spells. I like necro early on. Grab some Ray of Enfeeblement and False Life, and then ban necro. Or delay Incantatrix till after you're 8 and have picked up Enervation and maybe Fear.

[The_Jackal]

Anything but Conjuration and Transmutation are fair game, honestly.

[Callista]

Don't dump Divination. It's just too useful.

Personally, I'd probably dump Evocation, because it's just so straightforward--deal damage, and that's it. (Well, mostly.) That's boring. I want to be creative.

[Warlawk]

Personally, I'd probably dump Evocation, because it's just so straightforward--deal damage, and that's it. (Well, mostly.) That's boring. I want to be creative.

You sure about that?

Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere, save or lose for an opponent or save an ally who is about to die.
Wall of Ice, walls always offer some great tactical options. Nothing specifically special about this wall, but it's not bad.
Wall of Force, a staple that needs no introduction.
Howling Chain, 15 foot reach trip that hits and leaves targets shaken, also makes attacks of opportunity.
Contingency, needs no explanation.
Bigby’s Grasping Hand, excellent control.
Forcecage, also a staple that needs no explanation.

I'm sure there are more that are a bit more situational or subject to personal taste, but those are all rock solid evo spells that don't blast.

Personally, I would drop enchantment. There are a lot of nice spells in enchantment but they also tend to be pretty situational and a lot of things are immune.

[Callista]

I didn't say you couldn't be creative with evocations, just that other schools had much more potential. That's what the "mostly" means.

And Enchantment? Yeah, illusions are fun. That is all. And they're useful not just in battle but everywhere.