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ffone
2011-02-25, 02:25 AM
How do you / does your group do interrogation? Nonlethally drop a foe, heal 'em and wake 'em up, ask questions nicely and then, if needed, not so nicely...

What are the relevant skills for getting them to cough up? Diplomacy? Intimidate? Bluff? Gather Info? (and presumably Sense Motive for sensing when they try to give misinformation)?

Daftendirekt
2011-02-25, 02:47 AM
I'd think Intimidate (bad cop), diplomacy (good cop), bluff (uh, bluffing?) and sense motive. The text for Gather Information in the PHB is very specific on how it works: you spend hours talking to everybody in a city/bar/etc and the check shows what you get from all that talking.

Coidzor
2011-02-25, 02:51 AM
I believe one of the things BoED has that are useful-ish are some thoughts on the nice form of interrogation.

ffone
2011-02-25, 03:28 AM
I'd think Intimidate (bad cop), diplomacy (good cop), bluff (uh, bluffing?) and sense motive. The text for Gather Information in the PHB is very specific on how it works: you spend hours talking to everybody in a city/bar/etc and the check shows what you get from all that talking.

Diplomacy's Hostile -> Friendly or Helpful make by relevant (there seems to be a consensus that Diplomacy's 'flat' DCs are borked and abuseable, but that's another discussion).

The first two paragraphs of Intimidate also seem relevant, and it even has a mechanic for when you get misinformation (failed check by 5 or more).

Ah yes, I see BoED mentions using Diplomacy and Intimidate.

I'm wondering how small-i 'intimidation' would be effective of the captive knows you're an "exalted" type and above torture, but have no problems with Intimidate being a relevant skill (everything has to go under some skill, and the names are symbolic simplifications).

fratar11
2011-02-25, 03:28 AM
I start nice but usually end up cutting a few fingers due to low charisma characters. I used Cause fear on one, that sped up the process quite a bit.

Zaq
2011-02-25, 03:35 AM
Get your sense motive check up high enough and ask a few simple yes-or-no questions, and as long as they're talking, you'll get the info you need, no matter how much they lie to you.

Other than that, yeah, just get their attitude up high enough (via diplomacy, intimidate, charm spells, or whatever) and they'll tell you what they know.

ffone
2011-02-25, 03:39 AM
LOL using binary questions with sense motive is clever. You can even get specific information (name of a person or place etc.) via binary encoding / twenty questions ("is the first letter of their name in A-K?"....).

You can even precede each one by the binary question "do you know the answer to this question:" to break apart the case where they genuinely don't know the answer.

re: charm spells, since characters can voluntarily fail saves, I was thinking something like "we're about to cast such and such spell (Charm Person, Detect Thoughts) on you; let it take hold or we'll kill you."

Vulaas
2011-02-25, 03:51 AM
In a land where there is magical healing and to spare? Use rope, tie them down, cast "Deathwatch", ask them the questions you need answered, if they don't, beat them down to their last hit point, heal them up, and ask again. Repeat as needed. If you need to rest inbetween, beat them stupid with nonlethal first, so you can rest in peace.

But, that's all low level stuff. Higher levels just Mindrape them until they believe that you are their god come down before them. Ask them the information, and they'll sing like birds.

Earthwalker
2011-02-25, 03:53 AM
I do like a well thought out interroagtion. As someone has said using diplomacy and intimidate to make a good cop / bad cop deal with each having the sense motive to work out what are lies.

This can also be helped with spells like detect thoughts or charm person.

One thing I dislike is the belief that torture is going to work out as well as the correct application of skills. Start chopping peples fingers off and you will get told what the guy you are torturing thinks you want to hear. He will say anything to get you to stop hurting him.

ffone
2011-02-25, 03:54 AM
In a land where there is magical healing and to spare? Use rope, tie them down, cast "Deathwatch", ask them the questions you need answered, if they don't, beat them down to their last hit point, heal them up, and ask again. Repeat as needed. If you need to rest inbetween, beat them stupid with nonlethal first, so you can rest in peace.
.

I was wondering, more specifically, how to do the 'numbers' (the skill checks, DCs, etc.) than whether it was doable at all (certainly magical healing helps with the "economics" of torture).

Thurbane
2011-02-25, 03:55 AM
I believe one of the things BoED has that are useful-ish are some thoughts on the nice form of interrogation.
And BoVD has some advice for less nice methods.

I'm not sure what BoEF has to say on the matter. :smallbiggrin:

Edhelras
2011-02-25, 05:01 AM
I start nice but usually end up cutting a few fingers due to low charisma characters. I used Cause fear on one, that sped up the process quite a bit.

I've objected elsewhere to using Real Life moralities when playing DnD, but I still feel quite a strong barrier against using torture in-game, at least for my characters who are generally Good-aligned. Even for a Neutral (on the Good-Evil axis) character, I would say that using torture should at least be confined to extreme situations, and heavily balanced with some benefit for the Good side if it's used. For my own characters, most of them would object strongly if one of the other party members was to use torture against the prisoners.

Actually, torture is one of those things, along with for instance rape, that's so horrible and at the same time occurring and a real problem in the RL world, that I have a big, big problem accepting it in a game that's supposed to be fun. So even if it's technically allowed, I wouldn't have much fun in a game session where torture was being employed other than as a means to portray someone as utterly callous.

From the DM point of view - DnD rules are full of instances where they try to emulate real-life actions and mechanisms. A good (yeah, a Good) DM should in my mind treat tortured NPCs realistically; meaning that if the Party employs torture, they should have a very high risk of getting false answers, misleading answers, and (in my personal opinion), risk getting seriously led into a wrong direction where they're beat up.
This is how it goes, both in today's torture experiences, and it was the clear result in the medieval world upon which DnD is based, where for instance torture provided a lot of confessions about witchery, which we know must have been false/forced.
There is no reason the DM should, as a rule, simply reward torture by providing pieces of correct information. If the DM elects to do so, he's 1) not particularly true to realism, and 2) he must take some responsibility if the session or chain of sessions turns out to be unpleasantly grisly.
Goal #1 is to have fun when playing, but if the group was of the kind having fun with torture, I for one wouldn't share that fun. But each to his own, of course.

As for interrogation, I think Diplomacy, Bluff and Intimidate checks should be the mainstay. If the DM really wants to acknowledge his players, reward them for smart play, he should reward them for spending skill points and picking classes which provide them with the social skills. Even if the player himself may have some problems being very smooth-tongued at the table, I think that this is an instance where "roll-play" is perfectly justified. Both the DM and the players have a common interest in forwarding the plotline, so the DM should work with his players instead of stubbornly obstructing them in their interrogation efforts. Again, in RL, fact is quite a few criminals and captive soldiers are quite talkative, they may have doubts or be afraid or feel guilt - there is no reason a prisoner in DnD should keep quiet until all his fingers are cut off.
BTW Intimidate IMO is the "roll-play" equivalent of "roughing-up" prisoners. Personally, I would appreciate an Intimidate roll rather than very graphic beating of helpless prisoners.

I also like using spells like Zone of truth and Detect thoughts in combination with the social skills. Combined with aggressive questioning, my take is that the PC scanning the thoughts of the prisoners should be able to catch quite a few hints, even though the prisoner is trying to escape the probing.

Fishy
2011-02-25, 05:36 AM
My Diviner sometimes offers one piece of information about next week in return for one piece of information about last month. That's fair, isn't it?

"Question time! You're our guest, so you get to go first," tends to throw people off.

Mastikator
2011-02-25, 05:49 AM
We interrogated a troll trapped under a large pile of rocks by beating him in the face with a large blunt object until he told us what we wanted to know.

Then we let him on his merry way.

mint
2011-02-25, 11:28 AM
The way I do it:
It is a skill challenge. Get X successes or Y failures and the challenge is over.
The amount of successes determines the information you get. Failures and successes can modify the DC. Different targets respond differently to bluff, diplomacy, intimidate.

To make a roll, the player has got to give me their angle. So the players help tell the story of the interrogation and it becomes semi-interesting at least. And less work for me!

Unless there's more than one way to get the information or solve the problem I wouldn't make the players jump through a bunch of hoops and then maybe fail which just results in a dead end instead of moving the story forward.

ffone
2011-02-25, 02:23 PM
And BoVD has some advice for less nice methods.

I'm not sure what BoEF has to say on the matter. :smallbiggrin:

BoVD refers to the Intimidate skill, but has a different DC / intimidate-ee check. In the SRD it's " Your Intimidate check is opposed by the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear)".

In BoVD it's level + 10. Sort of like if the intimidatee 'took 10' on their d20 and had a Wis mod of 0. BoVD also says "When using a torture device, a torturer can attempt multiple Intimidate checks to attempt to gain the same information, unlike the standard use of the Intimidate skill."

So, I suspect the reason BoVD replaces the torture's d20 with a flat 10 is to reduce the incentive to make ~400 attempts until you get a 20 and they get a 1. (Although at one attempt per round, which it says you do, that'd only be ~40 minutes to take 400, which seems like a plausible thorough torture session).

BoED basically says to use the standard Diplomacy and Intimidate skills (which isn't contradicting BoVD, b/c of course BoVD is talking about torture and BoED is proscribing it for Good characters). This is probably how I'll go, although it might be a separate check for each 'distinct' piece of information they want to fish for ('distinct' is a matter of degree and would have to be subjectively decided a priori by the DM), such as each place- or person- name .

On a vaguely related note, It also has a redeeming mechanic (talk with them an hour a day, make a Diplomacy check opposed by their Will save with their level added to their save, and if they fail 7 in a row they go from Evil to Neutral; there are other details like evil cleric sand blackguards getting a bonus and creatures with the evil subtype being irredeemable). Presumably by redeeming someone you could get most of what they know out of them (although they might still be afraid of their old masters' wrath if they talk), if you have that much time.

Bluff has a clause about getting someone to act helpful for 1 round; if I were to use Bluff I would probably use that. I expect Bluff-interrogation, in-character would be things like convincing the person they'll be rewarded if they help (materially, freedom, protection from former masters) or punished/tortured/slain if they don't.

Essence_of_War
2011-02-25, 02:32 PM
How do you / does your group do interrogation? Nonlethally drop a foe, heal 'em and wake 'em up, ask questions nicely and then, if needed, not so nicely...

What are the relevant skills for getting them to cough up? Diplomacy? Intimidate? Bluff? Gather Info? (and presumably Sense Motive for sensing when they try to give misinformation)?

We keep a telepath around for these sorts of occasions :smallsmile:

Gnaeus
2011-02-25, 02:45 PM
...
There is no reason the DM should, as a rule, simply reward torture by providing pieces of correct information. If the DM elects to do so, he's 1) not particularly true to realism, and 2) he must take some responsibility if the session or chain of sessions turns out to be unpleasantly grisly.
Goal #1 is to have fun when playing, but if the group was of the kind having fun with torture, I for one wouldn't share that fun. But each to his own, of course....

I also like using spells like Zone of truth and Detect thoughts in combination with the social skills. Combined with aggressive questioning, my take is that the PC scanning the thoughts of the prisoners should be able to catch quite a few hints, even though the prisoner is trying to escape the probing.

Those two contradict each other.

Real world, under torture, I might make something up, knowing that it can't be verified, or verification would at least require them to stop torturing me.

Fantasy world, it is plausible, maybe probable, that a mid level group of torturers can verify your information very quickly (with detect thoughts, ZoT, Scrying, Commune, teleport to the discussed location and teleport right back, etc.) It is also pretty easy to make an enemy think that you can do those things, even if you can't (Glibness, really high bluff, etc.) Under those conditions, people who don't like being tortured tell the truth.

Daftendirekt
2011-02-25, 02:46 PM
We keep a telepath around for these sorts of occasions :smallsmile:

Heh, we had a psion-only campaign once. Our main caster was a telepath. However, we were only maybe 3rd level. We had captured a goblin, but none of us spoke goblin and it either couldn't speak Common or was too scared to. So, he used the power that pretty much created an empathic link (emotion only) and we Rorschach tested it. Held up certain items and asked the telepath what it was feeling.

That didn't work too well.