LA Buyoff?

[Rasman]

I was wondering if someone could explain LA Buyoff to me in layman's terms.

In short, I'm looking at making a Monk with the Celestial-Blessed Template, which is a +1 LA, in Pathfinder LA and CR are interchangeable by my understanding.

So, assuming this character would start at level one, what level and what XP cost would he have to pay?

What if he started at level 10? Does that change when you can buyoff the LA or the cost?

[Yora]

First a link to the variant rule (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) in question here.

LA +1 means that you can buyoff your LA when reaching the XP required for character level 3 (Starting LA * 3), which for LA +1 is 6,000 XP. You immediately lose 3,000 XP (ECL -1 * 1,000). You now have 3,000 XP, and LA +0. Which means you are now 3rd level.

If you start the campaign at 10th level, it's always best to create your character as a 1st level character an then level him up 9 times (To get all the prerequisites for PrCs and feats right).
"Starting at level 10" usually means starting at 45,000 XP. Because of the LA-Buyoff as discussed above, you've lost 3,000 XP, so everyone else starts at 45,000 XP and your character starts at 42,000 XP.

Does this help or is it still too much techno-babble? :smalltongue:

[Essence_of_War]

Yora gave you good advice.

I would point out also that "starting at level 10" can mean either starting with precisely enough XP to be at level 10, 45k, or starting off somewhere between 10/11 (anywhere from 45k-55k) depending on the DM's intent. I would be sure to ask which they meant. Some DMs like to start higher level adventures between levels to allow for things like LA buyoff and some crafting. Others don't. Some DMs may also change their interpretation if they know you're planning on buying off LA in order to have the party all start at the same character level.

Note that if you have 45k XP and spend 3k of it to buy off your LA, you will be at 42k XP, and thus at ECL 9, while the rest of the party will be ECL 10. However, you will be gaining exp a little faster than they will because you're lower level, you'll hit level 10 very soon, and in the long run this issue basically self-corrects.

[Rasman]

First a link to the variant rule (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) in question here.

LA +1 means that you can buyoff your LA when reaching the XP required for character level 3 (Starting LA * 3), which for LA +1 is 6,000 XP. You immediately lose 3,000 XP (ECL -1 * 1,000). You now have 3,000 XP, and LA +0. Which means you are now 3rd level.

If you start the campaign at 10th level, it's always best to create your character as a 1st level character an then level him up 9 times (To get all the prerequisites for PrCs and feats right).
"Starting at level 10" usually means starting at 45,000 XP. Because of the LA-Buyoff as discussed above, you've lost 3,000 XP, so everyone else starts at 45,000 XP and your character starts at 42,000 XP.

Does this help or is it still too much techno-babble? :smalltongue:

that...actually makes sense...

I just wasn't sure if I had to ACTUALLY level him to buyoff the XP, i.e. go from 10 to 13 to buy it off...but that makes things MUCH easier and...cheaper since I thought it was 4000 xp

Thanks a ton


Yora gave you good advice.

I would point out also that "starting at level 10" can mean either starting with precisely enough XP to be at level 10, 45k, or starting off somewhere between 10/11 (anywhere from 45k-55k) depending on the DM's intent. I would be sure to ask which they meant. Some DMs like to start higher level adventures between levels to allow for things like LA buyoff and some crafting. Others don't. Some DMs may also change their interpretation if they know you're planning on buying off LA in order to have the party all start at the same character level.

Note that if you have 45k XP and spend 3k of it to buy off your LA, you will be at 42k XP, and thus at ECL 9, while the rest of the party will be ECL 10. However, you will be gaining exp a little faster than they will because you're lower level, you'll hit level 10 very soon, and in the long run this issue basically self-corrects.

That's actually a pretty good point, I guess it would kind of depend since it depends on what character I get to play this game in, so I may not necessarily drop in ECL. It'll be interesting to see how he rules it since characters who are lower level in our campaign gain xp based on fast progression and top level characters are on medium

oh, one last question, does the type of progression you have change the amount of XP you pay? like if it was Fast Progression, as I mentioned?

[Yora]

What kind of progression? The only think that comes to mind here are bloodlines, but that's another can of worms.

[Rasman]

What kind of progression? The only think that comes to mind here are bloodlines, but that's another can of worms.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement

for example

Like with Fast Progression level 10 is reached at 71,000xp rather than 105,000xp.

[Yora]

Ah yes, now I remember.

I always thought that adjusting the amount of XP gained by encounter would have been a much better idea than changing the amount of XP needed to gain a level. Exactly because of things like this. (And you could switch between progressions without having to reclaculate XP.)

The standard progression is based on the formula that to gain a new level, you need to gain additional XP equal to your current level * 1000. If you use different progressions, you have to find out what number is used instead of 1000.
If the progression is non-linear, you can instead just look at the chart for your current level and check the difference to the XP listed for one level lower.
For example, the slow progression list says you need 14,000 XP to gain 4th level (3rd level + LA+1). For 3rd level you need 7,500 XP so when you buyoff LA+1 at 3rd character level, you'd lose 6,500 XP.

Or your case of having a LA+1 race at ECL 10th and fast progression. (Again, assuming this means everyone starts with 71,000 XP.)
You start normally with LA+1 until you have 3 character levels at ECL 4th, which means 6,000 XP. You then make the buyoff of [6,000 XP - 3,300 XP] which is 2,700 XP. You're now at 3,300 XP, have LA+0 and character level 3rd.
Assuming everyone starts at 71,000 XP, your character beginns the game at 68,300 XP with LA +0, which means character level 9th.

If you really want to be nitpicking, the character would have a bit more XP, since being at lower level than other characters means you get more XP for every encounter. But how much that would be exactly could only be calculated if you know every encounter the PCs ever had. Which at 10th level would be about 133, and since the characters where not in the same group for these encounters, that means 133 per character. You'd be making calculations for a few days, only to probably end up with 1,000 XP more or something like that. :smallbiggrin: