Viable Character [Mutants & Masterminds]

[graymachine]

My gaming group just picked up Mutants & Masterminds for a change of pace. We're all familiar with the d20 system, but the game obviously has a lot of differences. I built a pugilistic character, but I'm not sure how effective he is; I'm worried that I'll die in the first fight due to something I overlooked. So, here's the basics of the character:

Level: 10

Str: 20
Dex:10
Con:20
Int:10
Wis:10
Cha:16

Attack Bonus: 7

Defense Bonus: 7

Feats
Durability (superfeat)
Hero's Luck
Infamy

Powers
Protection: 10
Strike (Stun): 10
Luck: 7

Those are the general, relevant facts of the character; I made him pretty bare-bones since I'm not too familiar with the system. So, the question is, is this character going to die in the first fight, is it a reasonable build, or is he going to murder everything he comes across?

Examples would help, since I think it would help me understand the mechanics better. Thanks, playgrounders.

[Dhavaer]

His offensive abilities look way too low. He can either do +7 attack +5 damage or +7 attack +10 stun? Defence is low too, it seems like he's not hitting any of his caps.

[graymachine]

His offensive abilities look way too low. He can either do +7 attack +5 damage or +7 attack +10 stun? Defence is low too, it seems like he's not hitting any of his caps.

I'm not sure I understand: I purchased the max power ranks for Strike and Protection (10) for my level (10.) My strength and constitution are at human maximum; I didn't purchase super-attributes as they didn't make sense for the character. Both a 7 in attack and defense seemed pretty practical to me and heavy invested in, given their high cost and the max for either at my level is 10.

Of course, I might not be understanding the system. Having a Strike of 10 means to me: 10(average roll)+5(str bonus)+10(Strike value) means that on average the save someone has to make against my damage is 25; not easily done for anything around my "challenge rating."

On my defense side: 5(con bonus)+10(Protection value) means that I have a +15 to save on damage, assuming it gets past my +7 defense. On top of that, due to my Durability feat, any damage with a DC of 15 or less is treated as stunning rather than lethal.

Furthermore, I can apply a +7 to anything I want, every turn, from my power Luck 7.

All of that is, unless, I am completely misunderstanding.

[Dhavaer]

Can you explain what you mean by Strike (stun)? There's a power called strike and a power called stun, do you have them as alternate powers? Also, where is Luck from?

[graymachine]

Can you explain what you mean by Strike (stun)? There's a power called strike and a power called stun, do you have them as alternate powers? Also, where is Luck from?

The power Strike states that you have to decide at the taking of the power whether it does lethal or stun damage; I took stun as it seemed more appropriate for the character. Luck is a listed power that allows you to apply the ranks you have in it to any one roll involving you once per turn.

[Kyuu Himura]

OK, some stuff you didn't get well.


10(average roll)+5(str bonus)+10(Strike value) means that on average the save someone has to make against my damage is 25; not easily done for anything around my "challenge rating."

Somehow, you got this wrong and right. Right: You're damage Save DC is, in deed, 25 (15 base + 10 Strike). However, Power Ranks are not limited by Campaign Power Level, Save DC Modifiers are. This means that any power that forces your enemies to make a saving throw, is limited to 10 ranks, but powers that only affect you (such as Super Speed or Device) are not subject to this modifier. Enhanced Strenght and Constitution are, however, limited (see "Third"). Also, there's no damage rolls in M&M, you hit someone, they make a toughness save DC 15 + Modifier.


Second. The Strike Power doesn't include you're Stenght Modifier unless you have a feat for it (Mighty Strike). Even if you include the feat, you're damage modifier can't exceed the campaign Power Level.

Third. Save modifiers have a cap according to Power Level. This cap is Power Level + 5 for Fortitude, Reflex and Will, however, it is only Power Level + 0 for Toughness. The cap takes in account both the base save bonus and the ability modifier.

Fourth. This link may be useful (http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=14764), it contains builds made for famous characters, maybe you can get some ideas from there. You're a pugilist, so I would recomend take a look at Daredevil, Iron Fist, Shang Chi and the Bat-guys.

Fifth: I would adjust your build to get the best out of your stats. Reduce Strike to rank 5, add the Mighty power feat, so your damage hits the cap, reduce protection to 5. You get 9 points free for feats and stuff. Get Dodge Focus 3, Uncanny Dodge, Attack Specialization (Unarmed) 2, Attack focus (Melee) 1, with the remaining points, get 8 ranks in perception, that way you get the best out of Uncanny Dodge.

Enjoy your character and, of course, Be a Hero!!

[Zanzanar]

Okay, I think we all need to specify what edition of M&M we're talking about. From graymachine saying that 20 is human maximum for ability scores it appears he's playing 1st edition.

[graymachine]

Okay, I think we all need to specify what edition of M&M we're talking about. From graymachine saying that 20 is human maximum for ability scores it appears he's playing 1st edition.

I'm actually not sure; me and our prospective GM went up to the local gamestore looking for a new game, since things have gotten a little stagnant. I suggested M&M over Champions because I've heard better things about it and the "Fighting Irishman" on the cover sold us. We actually questioned the edition when the character sheets we printed of had some discrepancy; most notably was the skill on the sheets, "Notice" which we couldn't find a reference to. We looked over the book for an edition notation but couldn't find one.

[Zanzanar]

I just went and looked. 1st Edition has separate Spot and Listen skills, and it has a fighting Irishman on the cover, so that's what you have.

[Tengu_temp]

First edition cover
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TCQRDPXML._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Second edition cover
http://www.greenronin.com/images/product/grr2501_450.jpg

[BladeSingerXIV]

Some basic guidelines for any character you make:

You should be hitting all of your caps for attack, defense, damage DC, and toughness save bonus. The enemies you can expect to fight will be that way, and you should too. There are some tricks you can do to reduce the investment you have to put into attack and defense, but at the end of the day you really need to only get hit by ~50% of attacks and only get bruised by ~50% of the ones that hit you.

Your Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves should come out to an average of PL-2. So in your case, if you add up all three of those and divide by 3, you should come up with something around 8. This isn't necessary, but I find it's a good working guideline that doesn't invest too heavily in stuff that's only going to come up sometimes.

Also, you choose lethal or nonlethal damage when you make the attack, not when you take the power in the first place.

The last recommendation I have is invest in some alternate powers. The book may not make sense, feel free to ask about that if you feel you don't get it. APs will serve to make your fighting way, way more interesting so you can do more than just stand around and say "I use strike on my turn. It's a DC 25 toughness save, just like every other turn."

[Tengu_temp]

It's hard to die in Mutants and Masterminds, because it's a cinematic, heroic system. The bigger problem is: will I be able to contribute? And that depends heavily on the optimization level of the group, but in most games you should be as long as you stay close to the caps and have some niche other than combat you can fulfill. Because in M&M, everyone should be a fighter anyway.

Hitting the caps does not mean you are very powerful, it means you are competent for your power level. Compare a guy who hits with Strike 10 and a guy who hits with Autofire 2 Corrossion 10 + Power Attack 5 + All-Out Attack 5.

Do note that you can make cap tradeoffs. Instead of +10 attack and damage you can have +7 attack and +13 damage, for example.

[graymachine]

Apparently we are playing 1st edition. I'm not too worried as our GM is learning this system along with us, so I don't expect anything too crazy. While I have a leaning toward optimization, we have all made our character so far on whim and discussing comic books. So far we have me, the pugilist, a transmutationist that took the road of The Machinist from The Authority, a guy that's *extra* into nature and has a mess of elemental powers, a speedster that wants his powers to warp physics, and a character that I have been told is based off of the Power Puff Girls.

Needless to say, I am the group's only dedicated fighter, me more or less in charge of the fighting. So, The question still, though, is can I stand up as-is in a fight?

[balluga]

I am currently playing the same type of character in a M&M 2nd ed game, being one of two pure fighting characters and would like to share of the things that I have learned.

The most important thing, as said before is to max your Attack, Defense and Toughness save. Attack is important to make sure that you can contribute to combat and Defense/Toughness allow you to survive combat.

I would also suggest having a damage attack that is at the power limit as well. I am in a PL 8 game but my attacks are only at +6 melee or +5 ranged and it makes the toughness saves easier to survive. With a full attack bonus and power attack or all out attack, you can easily drop your foes.

Also, just because you are the "fighter" does not mean that you will be the only one doing damage in combat. The person with elemental powers at rank 10 can do just as much damage as you can, even with a strength of 10. M&M makes it very easy to have a damaging attack and contribute to combat. One member of my group has no attack bonus, but can take over people's minds and have them fight for us.

If you want to be more of a tank type, looks for ways to increase your survival. Find ways to ignore damage or recover quicker from damage so you can stay on your feet longer. In 2nd Ed. I use Impervious Protection to PL and Regeneration for Bruised and Injured as free actions. I can still be hit and hurt, but I can stay in a fight for longer.

Also, have some other tricks in combat so you can do more interesting things. It can make the game more fun if you can do something besides just hitting your adversary every turn. One trick can be your ability to get in their way and have them attack you rather than your comrades because you are ready for it.

Finally, pick up some out of combat skills or feats that can be useful. Find one or two things that you can pick up for 3-5 PP total that will make you really good at something. For example in 2nd Ed. the feat Contacts and a good Gather Information check lets my character find things out in much less time, while saving enough points for combat.