3.5 Psion heavy world, what changes?

[BobVosh]

I'm working on making a campaign setting, although this post isn't directly on that. In general if you have no arcane magics and heavy, heavy psionic what changes? I have read some stuff about dark sun, but its not that it destroys the environment. It is just easier to do psionics.

I'm curious what people think would be a big change from magic to psionic in a world.
Stipulations: Arcane is very rare, clerics are rarer but not gone, druids are very common, and psionics is the average mans magic user.

[Dead_Jester]

I'm working on making a campaign setting, although this post isn't directly on that. In general if you have no arcane magics and heavy, heavy psionic what changes? I have read some stuff about dark sun, but its not that it destroys the environment. It is just easier to do psionics.

I'm curious what people think would be a big change from magic to psionic in a world.
Stipulations: Arcane is very rare, clerics are rarer but not gone, druids are very common, and psionics is the average mans magic user.

Honestly, not a lot. From the PoV of your average dude, nothing changes; he's still doing his day to day thing, and he still doesn't understand how these strange people get to break the laws of the universe every 5 minutes.

However, the fact that most psionic powers are much easier to hide (no somatic or verbal components) means that in a society afraid of magic (like real-world medieval Europe), psionics are harder to find and eliminate than magic.

Unless the setting is very high magic, there also won't be any major changes to the global economy/balance of power, as psionics are in essence, pretty much the same as arcane magic.

[starwoof]

Most everyday magic items would be psionic in nature. Magic items would probably be considered very rare and dangerous compared to in a 'normal' setting.

[Chilingsworth]

Honestly, not a lot. From the PoV of your average dude, nothing changes; he's still doing his day to day thing, and he still doesn't understand how these strange people get to break the laws of the universe every 5 minutes.

However, the fact that most psionic powers are much easier to hide (no somatic or verbal components) means that in a society afraid of magic (like real-world medieval Europe), psionics are harder to find and eliminate than magic.

Unless the setting is very high magic, there also won't be any major changes to the global economy/balance of power, as psionics are in essence, pretty much the same as arcane magic.

There will be one economic change: The spell compnent market will go kuput! Think of the poor spell component pouch makers, having to go home to thier little children and tell them they've lost their jobs! Thier families will starve or be forced onto the streets! The shops will be boarded up or turned to some less reputible purpose! The Horor!

Serriously, if this is a relatively recent and quick change, then the above could happen. If it was a quick change, but not particularly recent, then there could be stories about the "pouchmaker riots" or somesuch. If it was a slow change or in the very distant past (or was always this way) then probably there wouldn't be any sign of the above events.

EDIT: Though you could put an inn or tavern (or even a brothal, if you include those in your games) with a name like "The Mage's Pouch," or soemthing if you want to play up the "spell compnent store turned to another use" idea.

[Ravens_cry]

A psion is harder to lock up mundanely then a wizard, so there will be greater tensions between psionic organizations and government and possibly more psionarchies. This could be something fun to play up.
Psionics I am given to understand is lower on healing then magic, so that affects adventurers rather directly.
Unfortunately, I haven't played psionics, though I want to try some time.

[mint]

Well this is easy: the world instantly turns into a mix between The Pirates of Dark Water and Dune except on the Astral Plane instead of Mer/Arrakis. Whales instead of worms.
The price of land skyrockets and many gods are killed for their real-estate value.

[stainboy]

Charm and Suggestion are probably more common, and less obvious when cast. Modify Memory is almost certainly more common. I see either a secret government of telepaths, or a massive pogrom against anyone with psionic ability.

Maybe both.

E: Missed that you said you were only cutting arcane magic, so healing is no problem.

[Vknight]

I would suggest some secret cabals of Arcane users that are trying to find a way to 'Fix' the world or just want to kill the psionics for taking there power.

[Psyren]

We hashed this concept out before in the Psionic Tippyverse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178429) thread - rather than repeat myself a whole bunch, I'll be lazy and just link you there for ideas.

[DontEatRawHagis]

I'm curious what people think would be a big change from magic to psionic in a world.
Stipulations: Arcane is very rare, clerics are rarer but not gone, druids are very common, and psionics is the average mans magic user.

The difference would be that Psions and Battleminds would be more common than Wizards and Paladins. Battleminds and wardens would take on the roles of Paladins not as warriors of justice but the equivalent of sheriffs of the wild west. They keep as much order as they can keep.

Instead of Wizard academies and towers there are schools of the Will and the Way. Psionics as a power source is based on the internal power of the user(or at least appears to).

Thats all I can think of right now, oh and that there are less enchanted weapons.

[Vknight]

DERH: is right and now I've got that idea stuck in my head.

[Daftendirekt]

Deep Crystal mines? "normal" crystal mines?

[Urpriest]

Thats all I can think of right now, oh and that there are less enchanted weapons.

How do you figure that? I would agree if we were talking 3.5, but your post is 4th edition, where anybody with Arcana can learn to enchant weapons.

Also, while the Psionic Tippyverse is awesome (and maybe coming to a PbP near you if they don't make me a Teaching-Slave this summer), I don't think the OP wants a universe that...RAW based.

[DontEatRawHagis]

How do you figure that? I would agree if we were talking 3.5, but your post is 4th edition, where anybody with Arcana can learn to enchant weapons.


True but if arcana isn't a widely used power source you wouldn't find that many enchanted axes or armor. Even though a ranger can make an enchanted weapon he still has to use the power source and get trained by an arcane user which is rare in a low magic world. They could be Nature, Divine or Psionic based, if you wish.

In my darksun campaign I had psionicly imbued knives that could teleport short distances back to one another.(Needed for a puzzle later down the road.)

[Daftendirekt]

Well, OP's sig says he plays PF, so I don't know how a 3.5 vs 4e debate is relevant at all.

[dsmiles]

If you're playing with psionics, I recommend using the 'Psionics is Different' variant.

End of line.

[Urpriest]

True but if arcana isn't a widely used power source you wouldn't find that many enchanted axes or armor. Even though a ranger can make an enchanted weapon he still has to use the power source and get trained by an arcane user which is rare in a low magic world. They could be Nature, Divine or Psionic based, if you wish.

In my darksun campaign I had psionicly imbued knives that could teleport short distances back to one another.(Needed for a puzzle later down the road.)

Annulus is right. However,
While Arcana isn't automatically trained for Psions, it is on their class list. Arcana isn't about the Arcane power source so much as it is about magic and magical knowledge in general, and an Arcana check would be just as useful for identifying a Bogun (dunno if there are 4e stats for them, they're constructs made by druids) as an Iron Golem. So Arcana would still be common in such a world.

[Ganurath]

Well, the biggest changes would come from the lowest level powers. Assuming that magic-psionic transparency applies to service costs, that means that travelling the planes got a lot cheaper (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/psionicPowersAtoC.html#astral-traveler), provided you have a Nomad or someone who took the Expanded Knowledge feat to lead the way. It'd be a dangerous frontier, but trade with Sigil alone would be worth it. Nevermind the potential of interplanar colonization...

Seers provide two big hits with two of their level two powers: Clairvoyant Sense (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/psionicPowersAtoC.html#clairvoyant-sense) and Object Reading (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/psionicPowersGtoP.html#object-reading). Clairvoyant Sense is basically an early version of an already available arcane spell which is valuable for myriad uses, while Object Reading allows a Seer to thwart counterfeiting by tracing it to the source and makes the theft and fencing of valuables similarly hazardous.

The Psionic versions of Tongues and Identify both have distinct advantages of being cheaper coming from a psion than from a caster, as the former is of a lower level and the latter doesn't have the expension material components that are normally neccesary. These powers lend themselves toward better communication and a better understanding of supernatural equipment, respectively.

Linked (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/psionicItemsAW.html) armor and shields are huge for communication, and not just magical. If the Material Plane, or at least a small section of it, is sufficiently urbanized that people in Linked armor can act as information relays for the local government, it would be a huge boon to the management of infrastructure. With the military tapped into this network as well, the security of the nation is much more readily secured.

Overall, the benefits provided by psionics in the low levels encourage cooperation and development on the Material Plane, setting up for extraplanar colonization. While the Arcane Tippyverse is where you want to be when everything is going right, you'll prefer the Psionic Tippyverse if you want things to remain right.

[BobVosh]

Wow this thread exploded after I went to sleep last night.


Seriously, if this is a relatively recent and quick change, then the above could happen. If it was a quick change, but not particularly recent, then there could be stories about the "pouch maker riots" or some such. If it was a slow change or in the very distant past (or was always this way) then probably there wouldn't be any sign of the above events.

I misspoke a bit it seems. I was curious about the difference of a world where psionics were heavy and magic was light. It wasn't that psions went man hunter on the wizards or similiar issues, but where people just found psionic powers easier to control than magic. I'm probably going to do this by giving free psionic talent to all races. (the 2 power point one) Not sure yet.


A psion is harder to lock up mundanely then a wizard, so there will be greater tensions between psionic organizations and government and possibly more psionarchies. This could be something fun to play up.
Psionics I am given to understand is lower on healing then magic, so that affects adventurers rather directly.
Unfortunately, I haven't played psionics, though I want to try some time.
Hmm, interesting. Prisons may be harder to manage.
Also keeping divine magic so healing isn't an issue.


Charm and Suggestion are probably more common, and less obvious when cast. Modify Memory is almost certainly more common. I see either a secret government of telepaths, or a massive pogrom against anyone with psionic ability.

Maybe both.
Why would charm and suggestion be more common? It is the same level power as is regular charm/suggestion. The subtlety is still cut by the fact there is a fairly easy sense motive associated with those two anyway. However I was definitely planning on a few gov'ts of psions.


I would suggest some secret cabals of Arcane users that are trying to find a way to 'Fix' the world or just want to kill the psionics for taking there power.
Not what I meant, and I apologize, however I do plan on at least one evil mage council who will consider psionics unclean. Or other wise bad.


We hashed this concept out before in the Psionic Tippyverse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178429) thread - rather than repeat myself a whole bunch, I'll be lazy and just link you there for ideas.
Tippyverses scare me. However they are always full of good points. *dives in*


Thats all I can think of right now, oh and that there are less enchanted weapons.
Is it harder for psionics to craft magic weapons? I thought it was somewhere, or did I misremember? This can be kinda hard for the melee types.


If you're playing with psionics, I recommend using the 'Psionics is Different' variant.

End of line.
Why? I normally don't, so I didn't even consider it oddly. It just feels like its more work to annoy players.


Well, the biggest changes would come from the lowest level powers. Assuming that magic-psionic transparency applies to service costs, that means that travelling the planes got a lot cheaper (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/psionicPowersAtoC.html#astral-traveler), provided you have a Nomad or someone who took the Expanded Knowledge feat to lead the way. It'd be a dangerous frontier, but trade with Sigil alone would be worth it. Nevermind the potential of interplanar colonization...
Planning on killing most planar travel, so this won't come up. Amusing thought though.


Seers provide two big hits with two of their level two powers: Clairvoyant Sense (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/psionicPowersAtoC.html#clairvoyant-sense) and Object Reading (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/psionicPowersGtoP.html#object-reading). Clairvoyant Sense is basically an early version of an already available arcane spell which is valuable for myriad uses, while Object Reading allows a Seer to thwart counterfeiting by tracing it to the source and makes the theft and fencing of valuables similarly hazardous.
Hmm, I don't see it coming up much, but it could be neat to have seers of markets that protect merchant. For a nominal fee, of course.

Linked (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/psionicItemsAW.html) armor and shields are huge for communication, and not just magical. If the Material Plane, or at least a small section of it, is sufficiently urbanized that people in Linked armor can act as information relays for the local government, it would be a huge boon to the management of infrastructure. With the military tapped into this network as well, the security of the nation is much more readily secured.

Overall, the benefits provided by psionics in the low levels encourage cooperation and development on the Material Plane, setting up for extraplanar colonization. While the Arcane Tippyverse is where you want to be when everything is going right, you'll prefer the Psionic Tippyverse if you want things to remain right.

Interesting. It could be a form of basically telegraphs if done right. Communication faster than any solid object, although far more vulnerable to interference. Such as the fact you are essentially playing telephone.

[DontEatRawHagis]

Not sure if 3.5 has simple abilities for psionics, but if you ever get your hand on 4e Dark Sun Campaign Setting they have a list of about 12 at will psionic powers to utilize.

[Vknight]

Psionics take a bit of time in 3ed but they are relitively simple once you get the grasp of them.

-Edit-
Forgot

You should have the Cabal leaders name be a language none of the other mages understand mean 'Mind' or 'Psychic'.
Have his parent be a Psion or Wilder that has gone cosmic power style.