Mechanical Bonus to Deity Worship

[starwoof]

I've been working on my homebrew pantheon lately and something occurred to me. What if worshiping a deity actually gave you some sort of bonus, like a special ability or a small boost to a stat? The fluff for this in my setting is that the gods are TOO powerful, and need to hand out more power than their clerics and outsider underlings can handle or risk destruction.

Since everyone would be worshiping a god there probably wouldn't really be a balance issue, and it brings the divine into the world on a very personal level, which I like. It does raise the issue of players choosing a god not for roleplay reasons but for the mechanical benefit, but I can think of a few ways around that. Making the good and neutral gods have a 'better' bonus for players would probably work. My players are also very likely to take suboptimal choices for style reasons as well, so I don't even see it really coming up.

Some of the bonuses I'm thinking of are things like followers of the god of insects and undead be immune to effects from swarms of insects/spiders and the followers of the god of the sun and righteousness getting +1 str while in sunlight.

So what do you think of this idea? Stupid? Awesome?

[mabriss lethe]

You might think about handing out a free devotion feat (Complete Champion) to each character.

[Ravens_cry]

I personally don't like the idea. But then, I am not terribly keen on the whole domain system as it stands in 3.5. The whole idea of "Yeah, I worship this deity because they give me the best plusses." just really sets my teeth on edge. Hey, if you want to include it in your campaign, that's great, but it isn't personally how I like deities to work.

[claricorp]

Doing things for your god specifically could grant a light bonus or an any time usable ability.

You are a rogue with a chaotic good god of freedom.
Exposing and defeating corruption like an excessively cruel tax collector who skims off of the taxes could give you a bonus. Like a one time usable discern lies spell, a remove curse, haste spell(depending on level)

Or you are a half orc barbarian of a neutral good god of strength/glory.
Lifting something heavy off of someone, or defeating something considerably stronger than yourself would grant some kind of cool bonus.

In addition, doing acts that make sense for your god could net your players "god gifts" i have done this before and my players enjoyed it. Usually they were something useful but not powerful. A cool spell for a wizard(from another book usually) a skill stat boosting item, some enhanced arrows etc.

[Ytaker]

You should make it a gradient of benefits. Players being what they are, they're likely to want to manipulate the system for its mechanics. That's why you should have a roleplay bonus. The more they serve their god the better the bonuses they get. Say, normal bonuses base, a free devotion feat for living their life in the way the god wants at level 2, and some domain power if they give some exceptional service.

Conversely if they fail to serve a god in some exceptional way they could get penalties (which would cost power for the god) unless they switched service to another god.

Claricorp's stuff is also an excellent idea. If they can earn temporary benefits by serving the gods they'll be encouraged to advance their god's agenda and spend the excess power.

[starwoof]

You should make it a gradient of benefits. Players being what they are, they're likely to want to manipulate the system for its mechanics. That's why you should have a roleplay bonus. The more they serve their god the better the bonuses they get. Say, normal bonuses base, a free devotion feat for living their life in the way the god wants at level 2, and some domain power if they give some exceptional service.

Conversely if they fail to serve a god in some exceptional way they could get penalties (which would cost power for the god) unless they switched service to another god.

Claricorp's stuff is also an excellent idea. If they can earn temporary benefits by serving the gods they'll be encouraged to advance their god's agenda and spend the excess power.
Yes, I very much like Claricorp's idea about temporary bonuses for service. I also like the idea of more devout worshipers getting better bonuses and abilities. Lots of good ideas so far.

I need to have a look at complete champion to see what these devotion feats are all about. I've glanced at them before, but only a glance.

[Coidzor]

Some of the bonuses I'm thinking of are things like followers of the god of insects and undead be immune to effects from swarms

Immunity to swarms? That's OP, OP.

[starwoof]

Immunity to swarms? That's OP, OP.

Yeah probably, but it's very unlikely that I'll let a player worship that god. I actually already use that ability for clerics of that god, I'm trying to balance it out with the other deities. :smallsmile:

EDIT: And it should say 'swarms of insects/spiders'. Slightly different. Editing...

[ThirdEmperor]

I'd suggest that worshipping a god would grant additional class skills, which are good but not so good they're likely to make players choose which god their character worships for the bonus instead of role-playing reasons. I'd also suggest that the bonus only applies as long as the worshipper has performed some kind of act based on the god's teachings (healing the poor if you're a believer of Pelor, stealing a rare tome if you worship Wee-Jas)

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Actually, there are mechanical benefits for worship of some sort in Complete Champion by virtue of the organizational bonuses to Domain X or Clergy Y.

[starwoof]

Actually, there are mechanical benefits for worship of some sort in Complete Champion by virtue of the organizational bonuses to Domain X or Clergy Y.

It sounds like I should read that book slightly more thoroughly! Apparently there's more than just pouncing barbarians in there!

[Zaq]

Consider telling your players that the gods they choose to worship will give them small mechanical benefits, but don't tell them what those benefits are ahead of time. That, I think, will minimize (not eliminate, but minimize) the choose-this-deity-for-power angle. You'll still probably get the warrior-types praying to the god of strength, but if you give them the benefits after they pick the deity, it'll at least be "my god makes me stronger" and not "my god gives me a +1 to grapple checks."

To keep the players at least somewhat involved, you could give them a menu of two or three possible bonuses based on the god in question.

This way, I think, everyone will be happy. The players will get some kind of mechanical benefit (and thus, hopefully, feel a closer connection between their characters and their chosen deities) without unreservedly saying "this god gives me the most plusses," you'll get to make the different gods feel important and different, and everyone's happy.

[starwoof]

Consider telling your players that the gods they choose to worship will give them small mechanical benefits, but don't tell them what those benefits are ahead of time.

I think this is a great idea, and I'll probably do this if/when I decide to give players bonuses for worship.

I think I need to start thinking of bonuses for all my gods now...

[Zeofar]

In addition to Complete Champion, there are also rules for similar things in Player's Handbook II. I could have sworn there were some other books that had fleshed out-benefits for oranizations, but I can't recall them at the moment. Also consider Legendary Sites and Magical Locations as in Complete Scoundrel and Complete Mage with modified fluff as pilgrimage rewards. Faith feats are also an option, and free use of Relics could work.

[Vknight]

The gods could also give temp bonus to skills when players do something connected to them.

Such as a Good Aligned god of theives has a worshiper steal from a corrupt man. The theif gets bonuses to the theft if he is aware of the man's wrong doings

[mabriss lethe]

Page 86 of Complete Divine also has Faith Feats. Nutshell version: You advance the cause of your faith and are rewarded by the DM with faith points that you can use to fuel your faith feats.

[Knaight]

This was done in a line of single player game books by the name of Quest (the core book being Quest: The War Torn Kingdoms). It assumed that characters worshiped multiple gods, which makes more sense than only ever worshiping one in a setting with a great many in any case, and there were ways to get blessings. Most of them allowed re-rolls for particular activities (the blessing of a god of storms or a god of seas could help prevent a boat from sinking in a storm at sea, the blessing of a god of magic could prevent someone from getting blasted by magical runes, etc.), and were acquired through large tithes to the temples. Furthermore, following a re-roll the blessing needed to be reacquired.

A direct port into D&D wouldn't work well, but the general concept of acquired blessings, and the concept of blessings as safeguards against danger should both port over well, and would be a good way to handle mechanical bonuses.

[dspeyer]

Are your gods jealous? If not, be prepared for the player who worships all of them.

[starwoof]

Are your gods jealous? If not, be prepared for the player who worships all of them.

Maybe I'll set up a 'family plan'. Worship This god, his wife, and his kid, get a bonus related to all of them. :smallwink:

[LibraryOgre]

Instead of "worship", I would make it more like buying a spell from a priest... do X act of devotion, get Y result. Going on a long sea voyage? Poseidon likes horses... if you sacrifice one to him, he will ensure you have good sailing weather. Are all of your crops going bad? Sacrifice your King to Freyr and he'll give you a good harvest. How about offering up 1/10th of your fortune to Hercules Invictus so you'll continue to have victory in battle?

It's something that's been common for centuries, but tends to get overlooked when there are spellcasting clerics.

[Ravens_cry]

My holy folk, clerics and paladins especially, in games with Pantheons always honoured all the good and many neutral gods. They may, especially with clerics, honour one more then the other, consider them their patron deity, but all are certainly worthy of worship. Even the evil ones may get a perfunctory, "I know you're there, please don't smite me", now and then.

[Privateer]

I don't know if you want to hand out bonuses just for worshiping; I'd rather made it a bonus for doing something extra in line with what your patron diety would enjoy. If you go that route, Book of Vile Darkness has rules on benefits of sacrifices and torture for evil chars; and you can jury-rig something similar for good gods and other themed gods. E.g. what was said about Poseidon and horses.

AFAIK, polytheistic societies like Romans viewed their relationship with gods as exactly that kind of tit-for-tat.