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0Megabyte
2011-02-27, 12:26 AM
So, my players are beginning to really dislike the new chief prosecutor in Sharn. It's very possible that they may end up fighting the guy.

However, I've decided he's a level 1 aristocrat, whose power is political in nature, not supernatural in the least. I'd be willing to bump him up a few levels if I must, but no higher than CR 2 total.

So the question is, what strategies do I have to make him an actual threat to a standard group of four lvl5 PCs?

He's a lawyer, not a combatant. He has no proficiencies in weapons other than what an aristocrat has. No armor, either. His feats will be stuff like skill focus, not weapon focus. (not that weapon focus is very good, but even bad feats can be fun on NPC's to get the right effect!)

I suppose the only real recourse he has is the abuse of items and tricks. How else can you survive a fight with the powerful PCs? They are a warforged artificer, a changeling rogue, a human druid, and an elf Tashalatora. (monk 2, then psychic warrior.)

So, basically, what do I use? I'm honestly not sure where to begin. Well, actually, I have my MIC open, but I'm not sure what to get him.

Lord Raziere
2011-02-27, 12:30 AM
simply get him to hire a bunch of guys who are CR5 to protect him from the pcs.
hes a lawyer right? so he probably has a lot of money and connections.

Frozen_Feet
2011-02-27, 12:30 AM
Sue them? Bring in the guards? Let them off the prosecuter, but end up with the law on their heels for it?

Amnestic
2011-02-27, 12:33 AM
Why is he fighting them if he's a lawyer/chief prosecutor? Doesn't he have minions to do that for him? For items I'd suggest items which keep the PCs at bay (Wand of Entangle?) and keep him out of harms way (teleports and the like).

Scarlet-Devil
2011-02-27, 12:35 AM
Mm, I don't really know about combat ability, but a couple of simple items, like a ring of forcewall (think that's what it's called, MIC) and an anklet of translocation could make him a great deal harder to kill, or allow him to escape instead.

Edit: If he's in an important position, and at risk for assassination, and especially if you're playing in a high/standard magic setting, then owning some things like that probably isn't too big a stretch.

Edit: And of course you could always deck him out like Kubota, with various protective trinkets and whatnot.

World Eater
2011-02-27, 12:38 AM
He's a lawyer, not a combatant.


You've (partially) answered your own question. You don't make him fight.

0Megabyte
2011-02-27, 12:41 AM
"Why is he fighting them if he's a lawyer/chief prosecutor? Doesn't he have minions to do that for him?"

This is a very important question. Most of you have basically asked it. The answer is, I certainly don't plan on him having to fight the heroes directly. But it's a possibility, and I want to be prepared with a really interesting encounter if it happens. Also, it feels like a fun exercise: How to make this physically unimposing, not particularly special person into a serious threat with the resources he has available.

TL;DR. It's FOR SCIENCE!

VeisuItaTyhjyys
2011-02-27, 12:43 AM
Aboleth mucus is nasty stuff. After the PCs are immobilized, have him use it liberally. Won't do much to the warforged, but suffocation is an underrated way of destroying most troublesome things-that-breathe.

Alternatively, wealth and planning are on his side; they are his element. Make the players go to him. Then, they have him cornered and defenseless, only for vicious traps to spring in response to their every action.

Amridell
2011-02-27, 12:48 AM
I've been a DM a while, and I used to try things like this. Really, ask yourself, is he prepared? If the PCs waltz in and try to kill him, being a lawyer, He'd most likely just barter for his life, possibly offering money, which most players cannot withstand. If he dies, he dies. Send the constabulry after them. But the bottom line is, He's an Aristocrat. He doesn't think he'll ever fight. Make it seem like that.

EDIT
I can't remember, is Sharn Evil? I could just hit the books, but I'll save time. If it is, traps and wands of Dominate Person might be a good way to even the odds.

Amnestic
2011-02-27, 12:50 AM
"Why is he fighting them if he's a lawyer/chief prosecutor? Doesn't he have minions to do that for him?"

This is a very important question. Most of you have basically asked it. The answer is, I certainly don't plan on him having to fight the heroes directly. But it's a possibility, and I want to be prepared with a really interesting encounter if it happens. Also, it feels like a fun exercise: How to make this physically unimposing, not particularly special person into a serious threat with the resources he has available.

TL;DR. It's FOR SCIENCE!

Stuff from Shax's Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101) comes to mind for the pure utility of it all. Obviously not all will be handy, but some would.

If they're attacking him, maybe have his environment work against them? Traps across the battlefield or the like which he funnels them into?

Scarlet-Devil
2011-02-27, 12:55 AM
How to make this physically unimposing, not particularly special person into a serious threat with the resources he has available.


And just what kind of resources does he have available? Naming a budget would go a long way.

If we're talking a lot of money, like 30,000+, then give him 2-4 levels, so he can take a little damage, and say that that spiffy, expensive looking vest he always wears is a Shirt of the Fey or something (one of those torso items from MIC that give DR). Give him the aforementioned anklet of translocation (to keep him away from the most dangerous things/help him escape), a ring of forcewall (to separate the party so they can't all smack him together), various protective items if you want (ring of protection, elegant cravat of natural armor, etc). I seem to recall Aristocrats being proficient with all martial weapons, so if it would be appropriate, have him carry a longsword or rapier or whatever, and maybe enchant it with something annoying like +1 Stygian, so he can try to take someone on if he has to.

Another item I saw recently that I thought was cool was the ring of stormfire (MIC), though it might not really help too much at level 5...

Edit: Also, if he knows he's going to have to fight for his life, you could always try and give him a surprise round (to activate the ring or whatever), 'cause those can go a long way (see Miko vs oots for inspiration).

Edit: Another cool and inexpensive item is the ring of four winds; it's only 2,000, with 4 charges per day that can be used immediately to either grant a +2 to ac or a feather fall effect. So he could use three of the charges to try and avoid attacks, then when he's down to one and he's desperate, he can jump out the nearest window of the tall building he's in and float down to the street safely.

Edit: Ah yes, and of course if you're worried about the PCs beating him and taking all his stuff (which might be too much loot) then you just have the guards or whatever bust in after they've downed him, forcing them to flee.


Edit: Ah, and come to think of it now, a ring of stormfire might be alright after all; if he can get everyone in the 5 ft. burst during the surprise round, then they'll all be faerie fired and take 1d6 damage per round for the next five rounds, which could make a big difference.

Jack_Simth
2011-02-27, 01:11 AM
Improved Initiative feat, Cape of the Monteback, and as high of a dex booster as he can reasonably afford. Fundamentally, an Aristocrat-1 is not going to think about attacking four+ armed men. He's going to run away and get the guard, assuming he doesn't have any on-staff. It's also possible he'll have a professional witness - a secretary or three with a good memory who is also the local equivalent of a notary public, who is similarly equipped (many law firms keep one on staff for when they need official documents signed between multiple parties).

If they attack him, he tries to run away, and reports the party for assault to the local authorities. If they kill him, his secretary reports the party for murder to the local authorities. If they kill both, then you've got a murder investigation going on in the city, but unless they've got some reasonably hefty resources, the party is probably going to get away with it.

0Megabyte
2011-02-27, 01:26 AM
So far I've gotten some great advice, everyone. I do wonder what book the Cape of the Monteback is located in, though.

Anyway, so far I've got a lot of ideas for mobility, and a few for battlefield control. There were a few other items I was thinking, such as a bolt shirt, maybe, or one of the items in the MIC that heals you automatically.

The points I've been given about the guy escaping are very good ones. I'm definitely keeping those in mind. However, besides aboleth venom, what are some good tools he could use to actually damage the PC's? He is an aristocrat so he has martial weapon proficiency, but he wouldn't want to get up close and personal. If it was just him, what kind of items would be helpful?

As for the budget: He's got a lot of money for this, and equipment from the city to protect him from assassinations. Basically, any single item under 10,000 is fine. Maximum 15,000 for one. But none of the suggestions have been nearly that expensive quite yet!

Jerthanis
2011-02-27, 01:28 AM
Make him tell your PCs point blank the consequences for killing him.

"I had you followed after our last meeting and my informant let me know your possible intentions, so I made it my top priority to obtain (or manufacture) proof it was you, should I be murdered. This proof will be sent to the Sharn Inquisitive should I meet any untimely death or suffer any kind of mysterious disappearance. So now wouldn't you say it's in your best interest to not meddle in my affairs?"

Essentially there's no way to make him a solo challenge when any PC can take him out on a single hit, he has no way to guarantee he'd even go first, and there is ever a chance a character can be within 20 feet of him.

So let them kill him... if they dare.

Jack_Simth
2011-02-27, 01:45 AM
So far I've gotten some great advice, everyone. I do wonder what book the Cape of the Monteback is located in, though.It's in both the DMG and the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#capeoftheMountebank). Dimension Door, 1/day as a standard action, 10,080 gp. Boots of Big Stepping (Magic Item Compendium) would also do the job, at 6,000 gp, although that's just a 60-foot Greater Teleport 3/day. Might be a bit better, as there's 0 chance of hurting yourself directly while trying to run.

Grollub
2011-02-27, 01:59 AM
Make him tell your PCs point blank the consequences for killing him.

"I had you followed after our last meeting and my informant let me know your possible intentions, so I made it my top priority to obtain (or manufacture) proof it was you, should I be murdered. This proof will be sent to the Sharn Inquisitive should I meet any untimely death or suffer any kind of mysterious disappearance. So now wouldn't you say it's in your best interest to not meddle in my affairs?"

Essentially there's no way to make him a solo challenge when any PC can take him out on a single hit, he has no way to guarantee he'd even go first, and there is ever a chance a character can be within 20 feet of him.

So let them kill him... if they dare.

this is probably the best idea...

The PC's can take him out in 1 hit, why load him up with tons of magic items?? Might as well just give them all that stuff.

Way better to have him threaten them as per above.

Runestar
2011-02-27, 02:12 AM
Turn to your DMG.

Locate the item "Candle of invocation".

???

Win. :smallamused:

Odin the Ignoble
2011-02-27, 02:22 AM
If he's rich enough, I'd simply let the PCs kill him. He can probably afford a Resurrection, or pull strings to have him brought back in some manner.

Once he's back on his feet, have him show up with enough goons to constitute a level appropriate encounter.

Alternatively, he could arrange for his body to be reanimated as some powerful type of undead. He could then use his money and influence to ensure that no one finds out that he's undead. The first priority is killing the PCs since they know that he died.

If he's wealthy and influential they probably hid the fact that they murdered him, so as to keep his death a secret.

NineThePuma
2011-02-27, 03:02 AM
[..]He has no proficiencies in weapons other than what an aristocrat has. No armor, either. [..]

Aristocrat gets full proficiency with martial weapons and all armor.

jpreem
2011-02-27, 03:20 AM
Escape shute in his cabinet. Then the room closes up and fills with poison and summoned monsters.

snikrept
2011-02-27, 03:29 AM
Access to lots of decent palace engineers. Many many levers he can pull. Deadfalls, pit traps, release the hounds etc.

Use Magic Device skill focus. Lots of scrolls with spells that enable him to GTFO quickly if someone waves pointy bits of metal at him.

Calls in a favor from XYZ powerful fighter type and/or monster who owes him something. Could lead to more plot points if they haven't met this other guy yet; if they don't end up killing him (or vice versa), discovering what sort of legal or emotional hold the aristocrat has over this combat-heavy guy may allow him to switch sides next time.

Amnestic
2011-02-27, 03:43 AM
Calls in a favor from XYZ powerful fighter type

What? XYZ is a machine type.

http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/e/e9/XYZ-DragonCannonDPKB-EN-SR-1E.png

:smallbiggrin:

The idea of letting himself get killed just to get resurrected later is a good one I think. Basically says "Screw you guys, you can kill me and I'll still turn up to piss you off."

Odin the Ignoble
2011-02-27, 04:23 AM
The idea of letting himself get killed just to get resurrected later is a good one I think. Basically says "Screw you guys, you can kill me and I'll still turn up to piss you off."

Ooooh! I like that idea.

I really like the idea of a re-occurring villain that never actually wins a combat. The PCs kill him, he pulls some strings and they're declared outlaws. They kill him again, he makes sure there's a bounty on their heads. He gets killed a third time, he shows up and lets them know all their loved ones are being held hostage.

You could even have him mock them for their "childish violent ways" while toting his mental superiority. I like the idea of him enumerating the new way he's found to make their lives miserable without actually having to resort to combat.

Of course after the first time he comes back the PCs are going to try and ensure he can't do it again. Dismembering, burning, disintegrating, soul trapping. Of course this could make for an interesting plot arc as the party tries to find out how he keeps coming back, even after all there efforts.

Of course this would depend on you wanting to turn the aristocrat into a major villain, not just a single interesting encounter.

Fable Wright
2011-02-27, 04:32 AM
My take: Give him some low-level golems, like the ones from Dragon Magazine 341- Wood and paper golems are easy to use for guards, and can be disguised as statues in his office/home and activated for self-defense.

MoelVermillion
2011-02-27, 04:35 AM
If there was anyway he could know in advance the PCs were coming (alarm spell, guards, etc.) have him guzzle a few potions before the fight, he can certainly afford them and they'll give him a bit more longevity to pull off any cool strategies you come up with.

Kaww
2011-02-27, 05:11 AM
Pit trap with a rust monster. Anklet of translocation, so he can teleport down there, and exit via wooden door. Five feet after the door there is a stone wall 5ft thick, use the anklet to teleport again, behind the wall. If the follow they are screwed. If they don't follow they are assassins that failed to assassinate a very important and influential person.

Dalek-K
2011-02-27, 11:37 AM
I vote for going all Final Fantasy 8 on them :D

When they capture him, make him be someone else disguised as him since he knew they were going to attack him.

Once they "kill" him the disguise falls off to reveal someone a but nastier :P

Urpriest
2011-02-27, 11:50 AM
I agree with the blackmail idea if he's not amazingly wealthy, and the resurrection idea if he is. He shouldn't be a dangerous fight, that's just not in character. What he should be is an extremely inconvenient choice.

nedz
2011-02-27, 12:08 PM
He's the Chief Prosecuter right ?
Now I'm not sure what that means exactly, but it seems likely that there are a lot of powerful villains that would want him dead.
So there are going to be precautions against this sort of thing:
And since many of his other enemies are likely to be more powerful than the PCs, they are likely to be outclassed by whatever the city has arranged.
Basically He's going be Untouchable, and everyone should know that. If the PCs havn't discovered that; then they are in for a rough time.
He will have bodyguards, both goons and someone a little smarter.
Its this guy, the hidden hand, who will stop them. A Diviner of some kind sounds ideal, and would have so many other uses in the Justice Department that his existence is probably a given.
So all that happens is that: as they are planning the hit; a message arrives (Animal Messanger say - whatever) telling them that they are already in the picture.
The Aristocrat mat not even know anything about it.

Havelock
2011-02-27, 12:20 PM
With that sort of budget, he would have hired guards for a level appropriate encounter.

Barring that, craft contingent spell, dim door. Costs 2800GP for 4500GP you can do teleport instead.

They try to hit him and *pop* since it's Sharn, he probably should have a ring of featherfalling just in case, and mebbe some winged boots too.

Amulet of Dark Blessing (Sinister Spire, 1200GP) gives 24 temp HP, once they are spent, the amulet is gone, but it's a nice investment for a low level NPC's that hopes not to get into combat at all.

Those items plus a potion of invisibility should give him good chances of escape and alerting the guards, and then you'll have more than just a CR5 threat.

dspeyer
2011-02-27, 01:10 PM
Perhaps he has full death-insurance from the church of Wee Jas? He pays a monthly premium so that if he dies of anything except old age, they will resurrect him. And if he is murdered, they will send assassins to avenge him -- however many it takes. Everyone knows he has this.

Similarly, he might have a Stone of Sending to summon guards. The stone could be embedded in unremovable jewelry (they cast energy immunity on him and forged it around him). A squad of warblades then teleport in to protect him.

If he has to be dangerous in himself, how about an item of Summon Monster V (a bearded devll sounds appropriate). The dmg guidelines say that one that doesn't need UMD should probably cost about twice what a scroll would.

Jack_Simth
2011-02-27, 01:17 PM
Pit trap with a rust monster. Anklet of translocation, so he can teleport down there, and exit via wooden door. Five feet after the door there is a stone wall 5ft thick, use the anklet to teleport again, behind the wall. If the follow they are screwed. If they don't follow they are assassins that failed to assassinate a very important and influential person.

Doesn't work as listed - the Anklet of Translocation requires both line-of-sight and Line-of-effect to the target location. A portcullis would work, though.

mabriss lethe
2011-02-27, 05:35 PM
This is Eberron: If he's in any position of authority he's got connections. He's probably a member of a dragonmarked house, and possibly marked himself. He has powerful allies. Otherwise, someone else with powerful allies and potential to "go up in the world" would have gotten the gig.

While his authority and position are something to cause the PCs trouble, it's the power of whomever pulls his strings that should make the PCs be AFRAID.

NineThePuma
2011-02-27, 05:37 PM
Actually...

Don't bother making him a threat, and then have the PCs suffer the expected results. Throw the city into chaos hunting for them, and have them be forced to leave as exiles.

Ravens_cry
2011-02-27, 06:05 PM
Make him a threat in non combat ways. They ticked him off? Have him use his connections to make things difficult for them. Extra searches in customs, make sure the book is thrown at them for minor infractions. They angered him? Have people who a physical threats deal with them, calling in a deal with the city guard or assassins guild. They never, well, until the end, deal with him directly. And if they do kill him, make sure the appropriate repercussions are enforced.
You could load him down with enough trinkets to make him a combat threat, but that would seriously break wealth by level for the party.

RndmNumGen
2011-02-27, 06:22 PM
If you want to have him survive longer, for 8,000 gp you can make a custom magic psionic item that allows a 1/day of use of Vigor, CL 20 that gives him 100 temporary hp for 20 min.

Ravens_cry
2011-02-27, 06:31 PM
If you want to have him survive longer, for 8,000 gp you can make a custom magic psionic item that allows a 1/day of use of Vigor, CL 20 that gives him 100 temporary hp for 20 min.
The trouble is, that item then falls into the hands of the party if they win. That is a not insignificant boost to a party that a CR5 threat is well, a threat.

Vknight
2011-02-27, 07:09 PM
Guys, he is a lawyer and has acess to money and paranoia.
So traps with 'Explosive Runes' among other things 'Necklace of Fireballs' all these things are area bursts that mess with the party.

Sith_Happens
2011-02-28, 12:03 AM
As other people have said, it's not the aristocrat you should be thinking about, it's his bodyguards.

Two 5th level warriors (or fighters if you want to be sure) with spiked chains and the proper feats should buy him enough time to use a short-range teleportation item. Once he's outside, he uses a wand of Flare to alert the authorities. If the PC's somehow reach him before the guards reach them, either let them get their kill or have him be packing a single Dust of Sneezing and Choking.

At that point, he has assured his escape (or not) without your having to stretch just how much money a civil servant could possibly have.

Safety Sword
2011-02-28, 12:56 AM
Personally, I'd write this guy off.

If the PC are going to kill him, let them.

Then you can go all "Wolfram and Hart" (See: Angel TV series) on them.

You could make it so that the PCs actually uncover a major plot of Devil (probably better than demons due to alignment) Badness happening. Then the Law(ful Evil) firm could strike back. Hardcore style.

RaggedAngel
2011-02-28, 01:10 AM
Hm. Unless you want to bust WBL wide open, you shouldn't have him be level 1 and have a bunch of fancy items. Furthermore, your players shouldn't know his level; why does he have to be stuck at one? He's clearly famous and influential. He's earned a bunch of levels under his belt.

RndmNumGen
2011-02-28, 01:52 AM
The trouble is, that item then falls into the hands of the party if they win. That is a not insignificant boost to a party that a CR5 threat is well, a threat.

Make it a 50-change item instead, but only let it have 1 use left?

Or use one of those special item abilities that makes it so only members of a certain class can use it. In this case, the class being aristocrat. Unless the players want to multiclass into an NPC class, they can't use it.

Dalek-K
2011-02-28, 01:58 AM
Make it a 50-change item instead, but only let it have 1 use left?

Or use one of those special item abilities that makes it so only members of a certain class can use it. In this case, the class being aristocrat. Unless the players want to multiclass into an NPC class, they can't use it.

Ooo someone as evil as I am :D

I gave my players a wand of balor might... Once it was out of charges it exploded like a balor does (in my defense they didn't take the warning from an old man).

Aharon
2011-02-28, 02:12 AM
Wealth really is the key question, here. If he is wealthy enough, he could have a contingency up that is more interesting than "I teleport away". (Either through having used a scroll of contingency with UMD, or through a Crafted Contingency).

=> with a crafted contingency, he could use Summon Monster X, which might be surprising for the players if you use monsters from one of the lesser known sources.

Other interesting stuff:
-Psionic Contingency. You can even have a Psionic Contingency and a normal Contingency up at the same time, and, depending on how the Transparency rules are supposed to work, craft a psionic contingency.

Also interesting are Psionic Tattoos, which, with an online article, are greatly expanded. (Guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4319.0) found here, article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031225a) here).
With an Inducer-Tattoo, you basically get a contingency effect, and if you want to get nasty, an inducer with a relay activates 3 powers simultaneously.

Overall though, the best strategy for the guy would be to use these powers to flee. Best, but not interesting :smallwink:

Physics_Rook
2011-02-28, 03:39 AM
As has been mentioned a few times previously, be sure to understand that anything in this fellow's possession after he dies will soon after be in the possession of the PCs.

To that end you might not want to look towards items that grant continuous bonuses. In there stead, see if you can't find some items that are one or multi use only. Remember, that this fellow, unlike the PCs, will only have to be combat worthy for one encounter per session (assuming he's a recurring villain).

The idea here is to keep the Lawyer mobile, disruptive, and damaging. He has to essentially play keep-away from the PCs with his life. Short-range teleportation is a good buy, locking down the PCs mobility is also very good, and finally delivering some damage just to rub it in.

Something like the Anklets of Translocation (MiC) might be a worth while investment for mobility. Then some one shot items for hindering the PCs mobility, such as Grease, Glitterdust, and Entangle (perhaps a one or two use item that performs all three at CL 5). And to finish it up, a scroll or two of something AoE like fireball or some such (not to kill the PCs outright, but just enough to make them hurt).

As a side note, while many people have a soft spot for making a confrontation with this fellow harmful to the PCs in terms of out-of-combat problems, I'm of the idea that PCs tend to revel in overcoming problems. So why not take this idea a step further, and move right on past the PCs, who're already more than likely to be willing to bear the consequences of attacking this fellow.

Perhaps the Lawyer happens to have setup several funds for charities and orphanages (after all, the best villain is the one everyone loves), and his death would mean that the charities disappear and the orphanages are shutdown (sorry little Timmy, it's back to the coal mines for you). Maybe even have his death bring repercussions not to any of the PCs, but only people the PCs know. Life is hard when the local constabulary come down on you, but it gets so much harder when they make life difficult for all your friends as well (sorry innkeepr Joe, your wife's in prison now, and it totally wasn't all our fault).

supermonkeyjoe
2011-02-28, 05:10 AM
If he's actually evil, traps, all the traps. Go with the Montgomery Burns school of engineering; a button under his desk that opens the pit trap, or a tube that sucks you up through the ceiling.

Hirelings and mooks are always good, if he knows the PCs are after him he'll certainly hire a bodyguard and then release the hounds, or the bees, or the Vadalis magebred hounds that shoot bees when they bark :smallwink:

Lord Loss
2011-02-28, 07:34 AM
If they,re going for his home, make things NASTY. Topiary Guardians (MM3) can fill his gardens, guards and golems in his home and a scrying spell that imitates a camera should the PCs actually get anywhere near him. He will inform them of the "camera"'s presence and explain that it is monitored 24/7 (whether or not this is true).

potatocubed
2011-02-28, 07:39 AM
I'd be inclined to give him some level-appropriate guards, but no nefarious traps or poisons or anything. The man himself shouldn't be implicated in anything illegal or dubiously so.

Because the PCs are going to kill him, and then they're going to be wanted for murder, and he's just going to have the nearest 9th-level priest spin by to hit him with raise dead. Yes, Eberron is short on high-level characters, but with his kind of money and connections he can swing it.

The PCs change nothing, and have made a grave tactical error by showing their hand. The prosecutor comes out looking squeaky-clean.

EDIT: Dammit, augury doesn't work the way I thought it did.

Gravitron5000
2011-02-28, 09:06 AM
Or use one of those special item abilities that makes it so only members of a certain class can use it. In this case, the class being aristocrat. Unless the players want to multiclass into an NPC class, they can't use it.

I endorse this method. It fits into the "This item is for me, not for the peons." mentality I would expect from a stereotypical aristocrat.

dextercorvia
2011-02-28, 09:55 AM
I endorse this method. It fits into the "This item is for me, not for the peons." mentality I would expect from a stereotypical aristocrat.

Unless someone has invested ranks in UMD...

Otodetu
2011-02-28, 09:56 AM
This thread is a prime example of how a 3.5 world (dys)functions.

Your combat\power level is linked with your social skills and ability to handle non-combat situations.

This leads to a pyramid shaped power structure, where the ones in power are the ones with the most levels.

Basically it breaks verisimilitude to apply common sense from the real world, as situations and norms found in the real world would never be able to develop in the first place.

This is a crude generalisation of course, but the basic theory holds true, allowing me to disagree with the fact that a level 1 npc should have anywhere close to 30k gold, or be in a important social position when he could be killed, out-talked, en-spelled, or die from an encounter with a house-cat.

If you rationalize with “everyone is low level except the players” then I disagree as it would lead to the humanoid races being wiped out long ago.

A fix is to presume humanoids go from being level 1 as youngsters, become level 2 upon becoming young adults, and being level 3 when they are mature adults.


So I agree with the fact that the level 1 aristocrat in this situation cannot face up to a cr 5 party, they are, even singly, demi-gods compared to him so let them have their way with him if they so desire.

Aharon
2011-02-28, 10:04 AM
@Otodetu
I completely disagree. One of the most efficient ways to gain access to power in D&D is money. If you are born into a position of power, you will have access to money already, and thus not neccessarily develop personal power.

At the extreme end of the spectrum, there was Sofawall's cube. His build was basically a commoner in a box, using lots of money - and he was frighteningly effective.

potatocubed
2011-02-28, 11:21 AM
Hey, here's another idea: since our aristo is loaded, why not have him simply buy the adventurers? He could do it openly - take this sack of gems, just don't kill me - or he could arrange for them to be hired for a "simple job" that is likely to get them killed.

Even more nefarious, he might be able to set things up to become their shadow patron. Send them on profitable quest after profitable quest, look after them, treat them well, get them out of trouble with the law... then they could kill him, but they lose access to everything he's been providing them with, and if his death is investigated they may well be implicated in his crimes.

Bonus points if he's been using them to acquire powerful magic items that he then uses against them. =3

RndmNumGen
2011-02-28, 12:05 PM
Unless someone has invested ranks in UMD...

UMD doesn't work on psionic items. They would need Use Psionic Device, which is a separate skill, and likely multiclass since none of the players are psionic.

dextercorvia
2011-02-28, 12:29 PM
UMD doesn't work on psionic items. They would need Use Psionic Device, which is a separate skill, and likely multiclass since none of the players are psionic.

Where exactly are the rules for making a psionic item class specific?

TriForce
2011-02-28, 02:31 PM
i agree with some of the people here that state that you shouldnt make the aristocrat a combatant. your whole reasoning is that you want him to be lvl 2-3 at most. thats fine, but that automatically means you should make him easy to kill.

What you SHOULD do, in my opinion, is making it so the chars CANT kill him, or if they try, they will get in trouble for trying to murder someone.

if he has a lot of warning (someone in power and with a lot of money doesnt shun the use of spies and other ways of information gathering) you could either let the players in his house without any resistance, and just when they are about to strike him down, reveal that the city guard has seen everything they did, and plan to do (ofc tipped off by our " honest" aristocrat) arresting them ( the PC's cant even argue, since if you did it well, they really did try to murder one of the city officials)

or if you want to play it even dirtyer, let him kidnap someone the party cares about, putting him in a position where he can make the PC's do anything for him, incriminating them afterwards

Khatoblepas
2011-02-28, 03:36 PM
Here are some interesting ideas:

1) Give the Aristocrat the Trollblooded feat. This way they can "kill" him by stabbing him, but he's not going to die that easily. He falls to the floor, bleeding out, and they can loot him. He has nothing of value on him. They are shocked to find he's up and about later, with no lasting damage.

2) The Chief Prosecutor is a Changeling with a Hat of Disguise, some glamered armor and a potion of Glibness. They start to come after him, he runs away, chugs the potion and becomes a totally new person.

"The Prosecutor went that way."

3) The Chief Prosecutor shines like a Christmas Tree with detect magic, but his items are actually just worthless trinkets.

The party loot him and his office, but find only pictures of his family and his hobbies. They just murdered someone, and even though he was antagonising, he wasn't a bad man. Cue guilt.

4) More supernatural: The Prosecutor is actually a ghost. He's already been assassinated once, but he lusts for Sharn to be a law abiding, crime free city so much he just doesn't die. The possessed body is a statue of himself he PAO'd into a real body. If the real body dies, it turns into a statue with realistic battle damage. The party will definitely be confused by this.

calar
2011-02-28, 03:46 PM
If guards and items are out of the question, Id recommend having him get heavily buffed by a mid to high level cleric before battle (presumably through connections. With the proper application of cleric, or even wizard buffs, you can make a level 1 opponent rather formidable.

Havelock
2011-02-28, 04:13 PM
Have him have a one-shot item that does summon undead V, conjure up a few Allips, smart PC's will run away from that.

Just make sure he has some way to gain immunity to sonic, mind affecting or compulsion effects.

ericgrau
2011-02-28, 04:21 PM
+1 to magic items, constructions and mercenaries / bodyguards. Money is his resource.

But one shot items that PCs can run away from means that PCs can come back after the one shot item is blown.

Safety Sword
2011-02-28, 04:23 PM
Have him have a one-shot item that does summon undead V, conjure up a few Allips, smart PC's will run away from that.

Just make sure he has some way to gain immunity to sonic, mind affecting or compulsion effects.

I really like this. It's the kind of thing that your aristocrat money-bags might just have if he were evil enough. But.. depending on how this encounter is to start, he might never get to use the thing if the PCs open up a big enough can of damage soup.

Sith_Happens
2011-02-28, 04:35 PM
UMD doesn't work on psionic items. They would need Use Psionic Device, which is a separate skill, and likely multiclass since none of the players are psionic.

Doesn't magic/psionics transparency extend to being able to use psionic devices with UMD and magic devices with UPD? Sure it makes the UPD skill redundant in 95% of campaigns, but the alteranative just seems stupid, especially since by default no class has UPD as a class skill in the first place.

Zonugal
2011-02-28, 04:37 PM
So this is a really unorthodox idea but if you want to push that he is a really terrific lawyer have him argue his way out of hell (if Eberron has such a place). One of the Fiendish Codex books has rules on arguing cases in a court system.

With that set up every time he is killed by the players he eventually returns in a more demonic/fiendish manner (maybe accumulating devil-host feats or templates).

Vknight
2011-02-28, 05:34 PM
Traps any prosecutor would have them.
So take the One-Shot items get a Necklace of Fireballs among other things.
Set them withing pits and other traps.

Have to large sized Guards with a High Strength and Barbarian Lvls charge knocking players into pits.

At which point the Kobold or other small Rouge lvl'd creature moves through secret tunnels snipes a PC with a 'Firebolt' (Or Something) activating the Necklace within the hole so the player takes a large amount of damage but is not neccesarily dead.

Give the aristocrat a Medium Stone or other hard object Golem to ride in during the battle only his head is visible but the Golem has to be destroyed first. (Only Sonic damage gets to the Prosecutor, before destroying the Golem)

After that give him some one shot items along with Dust's and wands with low charges he bought at a discount. Also a Ring of Ram on him of one of the Barbarians with only 10Charges left (This is optional but awesome).

MeeposFire
2011-02-28, 05:44 PM
I like the idea of a political foe using politics against them. He is a prosecutor with lots of friends in Sharn. He should let the party know that the city will know that he was killed by the party and if they kill him then they will lose access to everything of value in the city. The dragonmark houses refuse to use their services for him. They cannot buy or sell items. Killing him will make life suck in a way that makes sense. This will also let them know that killing important NPCs randomly leads to bad consequences. Then let the party choose what they want to do. If they do not kill him reward the party by having the NPC give them a lead or a quest. Doing this will give them a hint that NPCs are to be valued and not be used as just something to kill.

Vknight
2011-02-28, 06:05 PM
Yeah but don't forget this guy is a lawyer.
He probably knows the party does not like him along with other people.
So he probably has a list of these are the people to most likely to have killed him.
So it would make sense that is they actually make a move after him he is prepared with guards and traps.
Those are his items of power.

Money, Political Reprecussions, Planning, Traps, Friends in High Places, and maybe acess to Revival of some sorts.

nedz
2011-02-28, 08:09 PM
Can you not just make him a Diplomancer ?
He is a Lawyer after all.

Ravens_cry
2011-02-28, 08:17 PM
Can you not just make him a Diplomancer ?
He is a Lawyer after all.
Diplomacy doesn't work on PC's (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060317a).
Also, taking that cheese out of the can invites the players to do likewise, and I personally really hate, no detest, Diplomacy skill abuse. If you are that good, be that good, or at least try to be. Sure, you'll fumble a few times but its better then, "I roll the die, the BBEG is now a foaming fanatic who will serve me forever, on a 1"

Vknight
2011-02-28, 11:34 PM
Diplomacy doesn't work on PC's (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060317a).
Also, taking that cheese out of the can invites the players to do likewise, and I personally really hate, no detest, Diplomacy skill abuse. If you are that good, be that good, or at least try to be. Sure, you'll fumble a few times but its better then, "I roll the die, the BBEG is now a foaming fanatic who will serve me forever, on a 1"

Exactlly. The diplomacy idea reduces the fun for the players taking them out of the game. Lawyers are crazy and this guy has enemies so take those 2traits and use them with what he has.

Make him Lvl4-6 Aristocrat. Use either the trap mehtod or statue ghost for a combat encounter. For reprucusions use all the bad things people don't trust the PC's even if they cover it up if the lawyer comes back make the PC's outlaws.

Magic Items and other things like that let the Aristocrat blast the party well wasting what they earn out of the encounter. Here are some things to throw them for a loop.
Hat of Disquise to hide he is a Half-Dragon and 1-2Lvls in Fighter
Explosive Runes on the inside of his guards uniforms and they are all illiterate Barbarians.
A tunnel system he retreats to full of Kobolds in the Style of are good Friend Tucker.
A single use Trap tied to a Necklace of Fireballs worth over 3000gp. The Players fall down then notice the Necklase lining the walls along with a large amount of Undead.
Snipers and Arrow Slits.
A magic user of low level helping him or an item well worn by an 'Aritocrat' of his race gains Casting Like a 'Name Class Here' for 5d10+10Rounds 1-5times a day.