Feathered Wings

[thereaper]

I have an idea for a character who has the Feathered Wings graft. Problem is, he's not evil.

Now, the potential wisdom damage isn't a real issue, because restoration or (if need be) an orb of mental renewal can handle that.

But being forced to commit an evil act on a failed will save is an issue.

So, I was wondering, is there any way around this? Are there any spells/items/feats/etc that would allow a good character with a Feathered Wings graft to either

A) Never (ever) fail his daily will save to not commit evil
B) Not have to make the will save in the first place
C) Prevent himself from committing the evil act on a failed save

[gbprime]

Are you stuck with the fiendish graft? or are you trying to make a winged character?

If the latter, you might consider either a Raptoran, or the Winged template from Savage Species.

[thereaper]

Plan on making a winged character. Ideally, though, I'd want it to be the feathered wings, for the roleplaying potential ("and then that fiend tore off the other one's wings and attached them to me!").

I really don't want to make a raptoran (though in optimization terms it would work perfectly since I plan on this being an archer, I just don't like the race), and I'd rather avoid the LA of the Winged template if I can.

[Leon]

Ask your DM if you can waiver the saves versus doing evil things if its good for the PC and his story

[thereaper]

Well, I already had one idea of doing that with a Helm of Opposite Alignment (idea being: he fails his will save so many times he becomes evil, and his party puts a helm of opposite alignment on him, "fixing" him), but I was hoping there was some way of getting around the problem within the RAW.

[Thurbane]

You could be a good aligned Hellbred (FC II), who gets to largely ignore the negative impact of evil spells and items...

[Leon]

Talk to your DM - Ultimately they are the Rules of the game that they run.

[Ryuuk]

Take a look at the Hellbred race (Essentially, damned souls that were given a last chance to make up for their sins before ending up in the fires below) from the Fiendish Codex II. They get a racial ability called Evil Exception, letting them use evil spells ignoring class restrictions and evil magic items without gaining negative levels. Bring it up with your DM and you might be able to be treated as Evil with regards to the graft.

[graymachine]

The best thing to do would be to have your DM suspend the evil requirement; just present a convincing scenario. That would be a great deal better in the long run than trying to jump through some complex hoops for the same result. For example, I played a character that was good, but had the Ur-Priest class. I convinced the DM to remove the evil requirement by explaining why the character was taking the class and how he was good. This does, of course, require the DM to take a flexible view on good and evil.

[Dvandemon]

Well, I already had one idea of doing that with a Helm of Opposite Alignment (idea being: he fails his will save so many times he becomes evil, and his party puts a helm of opposite alignment on him, "fixing" him), but I was hoping there was some way of getting around the problem within the RAW.

That'd make for some interesting drama. Say, your character is on some sort of solo escort mission (or what have you) and the helmet accidentally gets knocked off. Suddenly, he's evil, knocks out the escort and takes it to the bad guys (or whatever). Other NPCs see this and think, "OMG he's a traitor" and his party finds out later and is all like, "Oh crap O.O" and before it gets cleared up, hilarity ensues

[Runestar]

If you want wings, consider an aasimar with the outsider wings feat from races of faerun.

[Sinfonian]

Well, I already had one idea of doing that with a Helm of Opposite Alignment (idea being: he fails his will save so many times he becomes evil, and his party puts a helm of opposite alignment on him, "fixing" him), but I was hoping there was some way of getting around the problem within the RAW.

Unfortunately, the Helm only works that way once. IIRC, you'd still have to find other ways of dealing with future failed saves with the wings. Here's part of the end of the description of the item:

The curse only works once; that is, a character whose alignment has been changed cannot change it again by donning the helmet a second time.

[FishAreWet]

Find a way to reliably make the save? All it takes is a +14 modifier to only fail once every three weeks. If you can get an item of Moment of Perfect Mind it's quite easy to never fail the save.

[Urpriest]

I believe there are some rules on redeeming magic items in the Book of Exalted Deeds. While somewhat vague, they could give you precedent for having the graft made into a good version. You'd probably have to have it done before it was attached though.

[Curmudgeon]

I have an idea for a character who has the Feathered Wings graft. Problem is, he's not evil.
So make him become evil. That opens up all sorts of options, both for role-play and in terms of game mechanics. A flying Assassin could be cool, and getting outside of your role-playing comfort zone is usually a good thing.

[Dusk Eclipse]

So make him become evil. That opens up all sorts of options, both for role-play and in terms of game mechanics. A flying Assassin could be cool, and getting outside of your role-playing comfort zone is usually a good thing.

Problem is that some DM's might not allow evil aligned characters, for example. That was my last DM's only blanket ban. Though I agree a winged assassin would be awesome

[CyMage]

Depending on how often you have to make the save and your class/skills you could take the feat for Martial Study (Moment of Perfect Mind) or spend 3k gold for a Novice ring. There is also a bard spell that lets you do something similiar with Perform I believe. Depending on your Con, you could go with Steadfast_Determination (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Steadfast_Determination)

Protection From Evil/Mindblank could possibly protect you form the influence as well.

[Ravens_cry]

If you want wings, play a raptoran?

[ClockShock]

Plan on making a winged character. Ideally, though, I'd want it to be the feathered wings, for the roleplaying potential ("and then that fiend tore off the other one's wings and attached them to me!").

I really don't want to make a raptoran (though in optimization terms it would work perfectly since I plan on this being an archer, I just don't like the race), and I'd rather avoid the LA of the Winged template if I can.

Play a Raptoran. Re-fluff.

Mechanics need not be tied to description and what you choose to roleplay. If it makes sense from an optimisation point then all the more reason.

[FMArthur]

Yeah I would just ask about refluffing a Raptoran. It's very easy, very balanced, and causes zero harm or potential harm. Better that than some convoluted story about forced grafting and evil angel wings.

[Fitz10019]

Here's yet another suggestion of Raptoran...

but if you really hate their culture, sound out your DM about a character background where you were raised as RaceX, adventured a while, died, and then was later reincarnated as a Raptoran.

[Thurbane]

I believe there's also a race of winged elves in FR (Avariel?), LA +1 or +2 from memory.

[FMArthur]

LA +3. Comes with elf traits plus an extra +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Spot and amusingly a Jump bonus. 50ft average flight.

They also get the dive attack that Raptoran and Dragonborn get.

Man... I'm not even sure I'd pay a single Level for those racial traits. Air elves. Come on, Raptoran were already just elves with wings and foot-hands. I'd rather play a Sparrow Hengeyokai perpetually stuck in hybrid form than an Avariel.

[Aharon]

@FMArthur
Yes, but
a) Races of Faerun was published before Races of the Wild
b) I imagine there are many Avariel fans because of Baldur's Gate that won't be content with refluffing. I proposed that exact thing to one of my players (refluff a Raptoran as an Avariel), and he didn't want to. I lowered the LA so he wouldn't be useless. In retrospect, as he was the only guy who optimized, 3 levels less might have been balanced :smalltongue:

[Ernir]

It's possible to play as an avariel? I thought it was just the verbal component you need to say when you want a fly speed out of Alter Self.

[thereaper]

Unfortunately, the Helm only works that way once. IIRC, you'd still have to find other ways of dealing with future failed saves with the wings. Here's part of the end of the description of the item:

I know it doesn't work that way within the RAW. If it did, I wouldn't have made the thread. :smalltongue:

Although, just when I was decided it probably wasn't possible and that DM fiat would be needed, I ended up stumbling onto Happier Days, a rogue special ability, which is perfect in more ways than I could have imagined. I might need 10 levels of rogue for it, but seeing as how lack of bonus damage really hurts archers and rogues have sneak attack, I think I'll be able to manage. :smallamused:


Problem is that some DM's might not allow evil aligned characters, for example. That was my last DM's only blanket ban. Though I agree a winged assassin would be awesome

The whole point of the character is to be an archer with fiendish wings who isn't evil.

And is claustrophobic.

And has amnesia.

And shoots 5+ arrows at a time from the air, pinning enemies to the ground as they strike.