PDA

View Full Version : I need Barbarian Bloodmage Backstory Justification Help



TechnOkami
2011-02-27, 08:36 PM
So, the story goes this: In a game that I play, 3rd edition Hackmaster I believe, there was a supplement which enabled Lizardmen to become Barbarian Bloodmages. Though in any game of D&D this would work for shenanigan's sake, in Hackmaster it is specifically specified that Barbarians cannot become magic users of any kind. As thus, it was retcon'd. BUT, my GM happens to think this a gross overreaction, and he is allowing it, with a catch.

I have to explain to him why Barbarians innately hate magic, and why a Barbarian Bloodmage Lizardman can be a Barbarian Bloodmage despite this common overarching trait for all other Barbarians in existence.

...I need help.

I have the idea that Barbarians wouldn't find bloodmages so disgusting is because the magic powers come from their blood, and in simple terms blood=life to a barbarian, thus the power is more honorable. But the fact that they're dealing with a magic user alone is still a problem according to the GM.

So, I'm sorry if this all sounds confusing, but I need background help as to why I can be this class combination and not be stabbing myself to death for being a magic user. If clarification is needed, PLEASE tell me.

dspeyer
2011-02-27, 08:50 PM
Cultural norms have a tendency to bend under power. Perhaps your tribe was recently led by a powerful mage-hero.

Zaq
2011-02-27, 08:59 PM
I know nothing about the fluff in question, but here's a few backstory stubs with varying levels of clicheitude (which is now a word):

-It was forced upon you (either by a quirk of blood or by experimentation at the hands of a captor) and now you have to live with it. You're not subtle enough to hide it, so you focus your efforts on desperately trying to convince your people not to totally shun you. (Why don't they exile you entirely? Maybe you're a chief's son or honored diplomat or something.)

-Your god (or totem or guardian spirit or ancestors or whatever you choose to worship) gave it to you directly, possibly appearing in full view of you and other members of your tribe. Your respect for this god outweighs your revulsion at the concept of the magic, so you continue to practice it. You might view it as a test, an honor, a sacrifice, or whatever.

-Some smooth-talking outsider (an emissary from another tribe, some kind of fiendish spirit, a traveling salesman from another society, whatever) convinced your tribe that even if you don't like this magic, you need to study it to be able to defend against those who would use it, and you either volunteered or got selected to bear the burden of it. You feel honor-bound to explore the depths of your powers for the sake of knowledge, delving ever deeper into them even as you find them more and more repulsive. Your greatest fear is that you will become comfortable with your magic, because then you will forget that it is a burden.

-You literally can't escape it. Whatever you do ends up with a touch of magic in it, no matter how hard you try. Your quest is twofold: to figure out how to keep the magic under control, and to figure out how to be rid of it for good. You don't know if you were born with it (and it just manifested itself one day) or if something happened to give it to you, but finding out might bring you closer to being done with it.

-Your parents (or more distant ancestors) made some kind of fiendish pact, and you're bearing the mark of it. Since you had nothing to do with it directly, you resent that everyone else fears and hates the magic running through your soul; it's not like it was your choice, after all, and it's just not fair that they should shun you for it. The pact that your parents made saved your tribe's bacon in one way or another, so they (and by extension, you) are too honored for them to actively exile you, but they're not entirely subtle about how much they dislike you.

-You're an evangelist, trying to teach your tribe that magic isn't all bad. You found it and called upon it in a time of desperation (you were probably guided to it, of course), and to your surprise, it didn't corrupt your soul and you don't feel any more evil or less pure. Believing that you have harnessed (or at least can harness) this power, you need to show your tribe that magic isn't as bad as they had thought. Of course, they're pretty stuck in their ways, so you're going to have to do more than just go "hey guys, lookit my magic, ain't it swell?" to get them to put away the torches and pitchforks. It's your job to find out what can fully convince them that magic should be respected rather than feared, and that means learning more of it.

-The leaders of your tribe have actually been using and covering up magic for countless generations. You've stumbled upon their secrets, and you believe that it's time to change some things about the way things are run. The elders are furious that you would reveal their secrets (and, indeed, a lot of people don't believe you when you say that the elders have been doing this), but there are a few people who believe you and listen to you. Now what?

Do any of those help? They're pretty hackneyed, and since I don't know the Hackmaster fluff I can't say if any of them fit what you want, but they might work.

TechnOkami
2011-02-27, 09:09 PM
I know nothing about the fluff in question, but here's a few backstory stubs with varying levels of clicheitude (which is now a word):

-It was forced upon you (either by a quirk of blood or by experimentation at the hands of a captor) and now you have to live with it. You're not subtle enough to hide it, so you focus your efforts on desperately trying to convince your people not to totally shun you. (Why don't they exile you entirely? Maybe you're a chief's son or honored diplomat or something.)

-Your god (or totem or guardian spirit or ancestors or whatever you choose to worship) gave it to you directly, possibly appearing in full view of you and other members of your tribe. Your respect for this god outweighs your revulsion at the concept of the magic, so you continue to practice it. You might view it as a test, an honor, a sacrifice, or whatever.

-Some smooth-talking outsider (an emissary from another tribe, some kind of fiendish spirit, a traveling salesman from another society, whatever) convinced your tribe that even if you don't like this magic, you need to study it to be able to defend against those who would use it, and you either volunteered or got selected to bear the burden of it. You feel honor-bound to explore the depths of your powers for the sake of knowledge, delving ever deeper into them even as you find them more and more repulsive. Your greatest fear is that you will become comfortable with your magic, because then you will forget that it is a burden.

-You literally can't escape it. Whatever you do ends up with a touch of magic in it, no matter how hard you try. Your quest is twofold: to figure out how to keep the magic under control, and to figure out how to be rid of it for good. You don't know if you were born with it (and it just manifested itself one day) or if something happened to give it to you, but finding out might bring you closer to being done with it.

-Your parents (or more distant ancestors) made some kind of fiendish pact, and you're bearing the mark of it. Since you had nothing to do with it directly, you resent that everyone else fears and hates the magic running through your soul; it's not like it was your choice, after all, and it's just not fair that they should shun you for it. The pact that your parents made saved your tribe's bacon in one way or another, so they (and by extension, you) are too honored for them to actively exile you, but they're not entirely subtle about how much they dislike you.

-You're an evangelist, trying to teach your tribe that magic isn't all bad. You found it and called upon it in a time of desperation (you were probably guided to it, of course), and to your surprise, it didn't corrupt your soul and you don't feel any more evil or less pure. Believing that you have harnessed (or at least can harness) this power, you need to show your tribe that magic isn't as bad as they had thought. Of course, they're pretty stuck in their ways, so you're going to have to do more than just go "hey guys, lookit my magic, ain't it swell?" to get them to put away the torches and pitchforks. It's your job to find out what can fully convince them that magic should be respected rather than feared, and that means learning more of it.

-The leaders of your tribe have actually been using and covering up magic for countless generations. You've stumbled upon their secrets, and you believe that it's time to change some things about the way things are run. The elders are furious that you would reveal their secrets (and, indeed, a lot of people don't believe you when you say that the elders have been doing this), but there are a few people who believe you and listen to you. Now what?

Do any of those help? They're pretty hackneyed, and since I don't know the Hackmaster fluff I can't say if any of them fit what you want, but they might work.

All of this would work under any normal circumstances, except for the fact that my Barbarian still can't associate with magic users, like, at all. I need a loophole, and badly.

Zaq
2011-02-27, 09:11 PM
I think that we need more info. Why, exactly, is magic a problem? What are the specific prohibitions against it? Just how big of an exception do we need? A loophole in what, exactly?

TechnOkami
2011-02-27, 10:46 PM
Sorry for the wait, this is what the book has to say about Barbarians and Magic.


"Barbarians in general detest magic and those who use it. They will, at low levels of experience, refuse to employ any sort of magic item if they recognize it as such. They will often seek to destroy magic items, and if successful they receive an experience-point award as if they possessed the destroyed items. While magic-users will be shunned initially, and always viewed with suspicion, cleric spells of the type used by shamans and witch doctors are not so viewed, though high level cleric spells are suspect."

So, the main problem is that Bloodmages are magic-users, thus Barbarians can't associate with them, but my GM is letting me make one if I can have a great and absolutely amazing backstory as to why my Barbarian specifically can in fact associate with magic-users.

(I'm sorry I forgot to mention this, but unlike D&D, to level up in a class, with the exception of Barbarian, you have to find someone who is several levels higher in your class and receive training from them, so if I can't associate with magic-users, I can't level that one class).

So with all that said... ideas?

Lord.Sorasen
2011-02-28, 12:59 AM
Your barbarian could have been separated from his clan, and survived in the wilderness due to the help of the shamans barbarians seem to be ok with. Through them, you learn about blood magic, and find it aligns itself with barbarian philosophies of life and power. Perhaps you're a charismatic type : When you return to your tribe, they are at first angry at you... But you convince them that your powers are not like the ones they hate, who gain their powers from books and create wicked unnatural weapons. Your magic is in you: how is that different from physical strength? "My powers run within my blood. This magic is the same force which gives us life, and gives us strength. It is not a manipulation of the world, but a blessing within us."

TechnOkami
2011-02-28, 01:09 AM
Yeah.... there's another thing. I didn't include this because it would take too long, but there's a table in the description of the Barbarian class which shows a sort of progression in terms of dealing with magic. Only until level two can I associate with clerics, and only until level 6 can I associate with magic users, but only need be. Also, clerics mainly cast divine magic, not arcane, so they're seen through a better light, while arcane, even with bloodmagic, is not in any way shape or form. ...so I'm stuck basically.

Greylond
2011-02-28, 07:15 PM
So, the story goes this: In a game that I play, 3rd edition Hackmaster I believe,

I just want to know where you got the 3rd Edition HM rules from? Gary Jackson leave a copy in your local Pizza-A-Go-Go?... :smallamused:

TechnOkami
2011-02-28, 07:32 PM
I just want to know where you got the 3rd Edition HM rules from? Gary Jackson leave a copy in your local Pizza-A-Go-Go?... :smallamused:

I see what you did there... :smallwink: but in all honesty, I have the PH for Hack.

Greylond
2011-02-28, 07:37 PM
and is it 4th Edition or HMb/AHM. It does matter because I may have an answer for you...

TechnOkami
2011-02-28, 07:45 PM
Ooh? And it's the latter of the two I think...

Roderick_BR
2011-02-28, 07:59 PM
You could refluff some of the bloodmage into some sort of magical initiation for your tribe, in a xaman-ish way. You channel ancient beasts spirits and do... bloodmagey stuff.

TechnOkami
2011-02-28, 08:06 PM
You could refluff some of the bloodmage into some sort of magical initiation for your tribe, in a xaman-ish way. You channel ancient beasts spirits and do... bloodmagey stuff.

That unfortunately won't work either. I'm 100% sure the GM will not let me refluff it, and since its still arcane energy (even though they know where its coming from), it automatically won't work. What you're saying is, in a loose sense, changing a wizards magic type from arcane to divine when a cleric can do it better... yeah, that won't work. Beasts spirits is also clericish, and in no way arcane, and my GM won't let me change any of the rules in that way to justify my character's existence. Sorry :/

Greylond
2011-02-28, 08:13 PM
Pretty sure it is 4th... ;)

Lizardman Barb/Bloodmage was an official multiclass combo. After the Errata, Lizardmen may not multiclass at all.

Of course the answer is, "The GM is Always RIGHT!" If the GM is allowing it then, no problem. Your character is from a culture that dislikes ALL Magic except for certain ritual magic that involves Blood. Your people are taught from birth that their rituals are Ok and everyone else is wrong...

...that pretty much covers every single culture in History and Fantasy... ;)

TechnOkami
2011-02-28, 08:29 PM
Pretty sure it is 4th... ;)

Lizardman Barb/Bloodmage was an official multiclass combo. After the Errata, Lizardmen may not multiclass at all.

Of course the answer is, "The GM is Always RIGHT!" If the GM is allowing it then, no problem. Your character is from a culture that dislikes ALL Magic except for certain ritual magic that involves Blood. Your people are taught from birth that their rituals are Ok and everyone else is wrong...

...that pretty much covers every single culture in History and Fantasy... ;)



That... might work... I dunno, my GM's a bit of a stickler about the rules, so I'll shoot him an email and get his opinion. I'll respond when I hear something.

The Glyphstone
2011-02-28, 08:53 PM
Honestly, you won't be able to progress any further until you get your GM's approval to just flat-out waive the 'cannot associate with magic-users', because right now you're asking us to give reasons why you could be a magic-user but shooting down every suggestion because it involves...you not killing yourself for being a magic user.

TechnOkami
2011-02-28, 08:58 PM
Honestly, you won't be able to progress any further until you get your GM's approval to just flat-out waive the 'cannot associate with magic-users', because right now you're asking us to give reasons why you could be a magic-user but shooting down every suggestion because it involves...you not killing yourself for being a magic user.



I know :/ I was just seeing if I could get a way around it, but my GM wants me to explain some things and then

...In short, I really don't know what my GM wants. :smallannoyed:

Greylond
2011-03-01, 05:58 PM
Tell him that your Barbarain "Magic" is not really Arcane Magic, it is a Divine Granted Power, the ability to cast Magic. Your culture understands that such "Magic" is of the Gawds and not of teh Evil Arcane Magic(tm)...

Roderick_BR
2011-03-01, 10:05 PM
That unfortunately won't work either. I'm 100% sure the GM will not let me refluff it, and since its still arcane energy (even though they know where its coming from), it automatically won't work. What you're saying is, in a loose sense, changing a wizards magic type from arcane to divine when a cleric can do it better... yeah, that won't work. Beasts spirits is also clericish, and in no way arcane, and my GM won't let me change any of the rules in that way to justify my character's existence. Sorry :/
Not really. No need to change magic type. It could be a cultural thing, adapting an arcane source to their special training.

DaragosKitsune
2011-03-02, 12:36 AM
Or even just divinely/spiritually granted knowledge. The revered ancestors of the tribe taught you to take what already existed in you, in the entire tribe perhaps, and use it. You are a great prophet, or the spiritual champion of your tribe. The might that was passed down through your ancestors is great and terrifying, but it is the heritage of the tribe. Who are they to deny their blood.