[3.X]Subdual damage:does it work? What about with Vitality/wounds?

[Mayhem]

So as the title says, does subdual damage add meaningfully to your games or is it too clumsy to be of much use? Have you got any homebrew rules for this mechanic?

Now, how does it interact with Vitality/wounds? I understand you substitute vitality instead, but how have you mechanically represented dehydration/harsh weather effects/non-lethal combat etc?

[Altair_the_Vexed]

By the RAW, there is no subdual damage in the VP/WP system. Anything that deals non-lethal damage in the D&D game is said to deal VP damage under that system.

However, my house rule for non-lethal damage in my VP/WP game goes like this:
Nonlethal damage is deducted from your Vitality as normal, but not from your current Wound Points. It is not “real” damage. Instead, when your nonlethal damage equals your current Wound Points, you're staggered, and when it exceeds your current Wound Points, you fall unconscious.
I added non-lethal damage back in because sometimes heroes want to subdue the guards instead of killing them.

[Eldan]

Basically what the person above me said. Same house rule, even.

However, normally, subdual damage tends to work well at low levels, where you can knock someone out in one or two hits.

At higher levels, you are either a supercharger, who charges someone, leaps into the air and makes a two-handed power attack with a sap, or you trade blows for a minute in order to knock someone out.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

We've also come up up with a surprise knockout attack - essentially, if you can attack someone who is unaware of you with a non-lethal attack, you might knock them out.
You roll to hit as normal (though your target is usually flatfooted when unaware of you), and deal your non-lethal damage as though you had scored a critical hit.
If the defender is not unconscious from the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or be knocked out. Sneak attack damage is also applied against an unaware opponent when delivering a surprise knockout.
It's a modification of the coup de grace rule - it lets you take out a guard in a single punch, just like the movies. :smallbiggrin:

[Eldan]

Now I'm imagining people shouting "Surprise Knock-out!", OotS sneak attack style.

[FMArthur]

Subdual damage can be treated just like normal damage, but you are KOed instead of killed. I use it on players, but I agree that it takes some houseruling for players to actually want to use it, and even then they probably prefer their foes dead.

[navar100]

My group uses it when it's appropriate. Sometimes we do want to take a prisoner for questioning. Sometimes an opponent isn't our enemy but just happens to be fighting against us and we really don't want to kill him.

DM adjudication is paramount. If "every" prisoner turns on the party, either while captured or let go, then the party will never take prisoners or kill them after questioning. If a DM wants to encourage PC doing subdual damage, don't punish them for it.

True, some players aren't going to want to do subdual damage regardless, and that's not really wrong, just how they are.

[Mayhem]

Altair the vexed, those are good rules, both of them. Definitely adding those to my secret rules compendium :smallwink:.