Need Items and Spells

[HMS Invincible]

We're a 8th lvl party and we're stuck in a cave that's on fire, and are about to fight a lord of fire. Everything in the cave, including us is fire immune or will die to the flames. I need something that helps vs fire immunity+ spell resistance. I'm a 8th lvl conjurer that's banned evocation and illusion. I'm thinking of getting orb of *not fire* and just spam those, but that's all I got. Spell resistance rapes my rays and my spells that ignore spell resistance don't function well vs a firelord in a burning cave.

[Loki Eremes]

So your paty plan to go into an oven at lvl 8th...
up to now you got about 30k gp for buying stuff. But i think most of that money is already spent.

-How many people are in the party? Maybe you all could put togheter money and buy some magic item to fight fire back, like the famous Decanter of Endless Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#decanterofEndlessWater). Expensive, a bit, but having a fire hose with limitless water will be perfect to open your way and put off on fire PCs :smalltongue:, and it does 1d4 point of damage per turn if geyser mode is activated.

How about luring the Firelord outside? or waiting for it to come out? (sry, i dont know why are you wanting to kill them in the first place. Maybe you want something thats inside the cave?)

If your DM is throwing SR inside this and you are the only "wizard" in this party he's clearly saying "i dont want you to do anything to him" ...at least directly.

Maybe it will be good to look up for battlefield controling spells, like Globe of Invulnerability (if that mob has spells will come pretty handy at your lvl) or maybe the Black Tentacles of raping party to have him lose precious time, or Solid Fog and stuff that will make him regret dont allowing blast him :smallbiggrin:) Also those spell are not affected by SR.

[Alleran]

Try and get your hands on several Decanters of Endless Water, then flood the cave.

[JeminiZero]

I'm a 8th lvl conjurer that's banned evocation and illusion. I'm thinking of getting orb of *not fire* and just spam those, but that's all I got. Spell resistance rapes my rays and my spells that ignore spell resistance don't function well vs a firelord in a burning cave.

Plenty of Conjuration spells ignore SR:
1. Grease, lesser orb of X
2. Glitterdust, Cloud of Bewilderment (but not Web since that can be burned away)
3. Stinking Cloud, Melfs Unicorn Arrows, Bands of Steel
4. Solid Fog, Black Tentacles, Orb of X
And of course as a last resort there is the summon monster series.

You can also choose spells that buff yourself/allies which pretty much don't care if the enemy has SR
1. Enlarge Person, True Strike, Protection from X (Grease is also here, as it can be used as a poor man's Freedom of Movement)
2. Animal Stat buffs, Sonic Weapon, Rope Trick
3. Haste, Dimension Step, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Circle against X, Fly, Heart of Water
4. Polymorph, Heart of Earth

Besides the above, you can use Assay Resistance and True Casting to help overcome SR. Its a pity you don't have illusion spells because there are some of those that ignore SR (Greater Invis, Normal and Greater Mirror Image, and the Image Series).

[HMS Invincible]

Well...We have a evil sword which is used to seal an equally evil firelord. My meta-gaming senses tell me that the sword will weaken the uberpowered firelord into a manageable fight. Fire lords have this habit of setting everything on fire. aka, We've been walking through mountains that are on fire. The DM gave us some ethically questionable means of getting fire immunity, but we have it.

Anyway, onto the list:
Grease: Set aflame, everything is immune to fire so nothing happens.
Glitterdust: Things have a nasty habit of not actually needing sight.
Black Tentacles: Firelord isn't a caster, so how will I beat it's grapple check?
Summon Monster: What's the best monster that's immune to fire damage? I didn't think the hell hound had good stats.

Here are our casters: Wu Jen, cleric, sorcerer, and Druid, but I just felt really useless when the rest of the party was killing the mooks.

[Yora]

If you are stuck in the cave, how are you going to get access to the spells you need?

[JeminiZero]

Grease: Set aflame, everything is immune to fire so nothing happens.

Grease isn't actually flammable. Refer to the spell Incendiary Slime [CMage] which is like Grease but flammable, and 1 spell level higher. The implication being that grease isn't flammable by default.

Grease's main purpose isn't to set things on fire. Rather, its to:
1) Force your enemy to make reflex saves of fall prone
2) Flat foot them for sneak attacks
3) grease their weapon so that they drop it
4) grease friend's armor so that he can escape grapple.


Black Tentacles: Firelord isn't a caster, so how will I beat it's grapple check?

Then use Solid Fog instead. Or summon something. The strength of being a Wizard is that you can swap out your spells to adapt to threats. :smallsmile:


Summon Monster: What's the best monster that's immune to fire damage? I didn't think the hell hound had good stats.

Look up the Voor (MM4, pg 193).

[thubby]

stoneshape is hilariously overpowered in caves. 18 cubic feet is enough to encase medium creatures, and more than enough to make the terrain miserable for something larger (making the Ceilings lower or putting pointy things on them is always fun)

[Cyrion]

Also remember that many things that dwell in/wield/are immune to fire are especially vulnerable to cold- taking an additional 50% damage from cold effects. Things like orbs of cold, ice storm, sleet storm, frost weapon, etc. could all be very useful to you.

Don't shortchange your no-resistance spells. Cloud of bewilderment and stinking cloud are effectively save or dies if you can corner your opponent. The grapple check on black tentacles isn't trivial either. Sure, there are lots of things out there that can beat it, but it's not necessarily a cakewalk for your opponent.

[Keld Denar]

Stone Shape isn't actually that useful in combat. Read the spell. You have to actually manipulate the stone with your hands. Its not just a 3rd level Wall of Stone that works anywhere you have rock. Its more for things like tunneling through very thin walls or removing the hinges from doors or doing things like making sculptures with a craft check.

I second spamming Orb of Cold at things. The [Fire] subtype automatically means vulnerability to [Cold]. Spells that do [Cold] damage are effectively empowered vs things with the [Fire] subtype. If you actually us Empower Spell on an Orb of Cold, you'll get double damage (1.5x + 1.5x = 2x due to D&D math).

[thubby]

Stone Shape isn't actually that useful in combat. Read the spell. You have to actually manipulate the stone with your hands. Its not just a 3rd level Wall of Stone that works anywhere you have rock. Its more for things like tunneling through very thin walls or removing the hinges from doors or doing things like making sculptures with a craft check

from the srd

Arcane Material Component:
Soft clay, which must be worked into roughly the desired shape of the stone object and then touched to the stone while the verbal component is uttered.

if the DM is a stickler with the clay, keep a few preset shaped in your component pouch such as a wall, dome, and spikes.

[ericgrau]

Why is it you went conjurer banning evocation first and then the first thing you come up with are targetted spells? School popularity? Haste your allies, make walls of stone / evard's tentacles / etc. to trap foes, etc. Then let your allies with the pointy metal worry about hitting the energy resistant things with SR. Other conjuration options include cloudkill, solid fog, acid fog and wall of iron.

If you really wanted to do major cold damage I'd pick up cone of cold to do more even after the SR and save because of its ability to cover half the battlefield. Protection from energy / energy resistance on melee allies takes care of friendly fire, or half a dozen other methods work too. But ya that's not the direction you took so why run uphill? Prepare a couple cold orbs but open the fight with lots of control spells.

I don't think you can use stone shape to move stone to another place, like around foes. Even if you could it's 10 cubic feet, not a 10 foot cube, +1 CF/level. That's not enough to do much of anything. Just use wall of stone and don' try to bend the rules.

[HMS Invincible]

Wait, is it ok to summon monsters that aren't on the summon monster table? Hmmm, now I just need to find a way to learn a spell before the big fight.

[JeminiZero]

Wait, is it ok to summon monsters that aren't on the summon monster table? Hmmm, now I just need to find a way to learn a spell before the big fight.

The monsters found in splat books released after core will have specific description on how/whether they can be accessed by PCs. If you look up its text, the Voor states that it can be summoned via SM4.

[thubby]

I don't think you can use stone shape to move stone to another place, like around foes. Even if you could it's 10 cubic feet, not a 10 foot cube, +1 CF/level. That's not enough to do much of anything. Just use wall of stone and don' try to bend the rules.

18 cubic feet makes a solid cube that's ~4.25 feet to a side. with hollow space inside for a creature, that's more than enough to encase a medium creature with a couple of inches, as i said.
it would also easily make rough terrain en-mass since it's a mater of inches deep.

and it's not shaping stone that's far away or moving stone to a distant location. it's shaping the intervening stone in such a way as to use minimal area so it can do what you want at range.
flexible areas translate into distance. if you've ever made a pole or ladder with a shaping spell you've done what i'm talking about

[ericgrau]

Most things are more than 4.25 feet tall. They don't tend to curl up into a ball when you say pretty please. Kinda moot tho because the 18 CF cube is 2.6 feet on each side not 4.25 feet.

You could try to make a thin wall come out of the natural wall just like a wall of stone and move it around a foe, except that's totally adding new rules to the spell text that aren't there to cast a spell 1-2 levels higher except without a save. Rules text that isn't there doesn't mean that the rule is whatever you want it to be.

[thubby]

"Most things are more than 4.25 feet tall. They don't tend to curl up into a ball when you say pretty please.
you can make it bigger and hollow without increasing the total volume of stone.


Kinda moot tho because the 18 CF cube is 2.6 feet on each side not 4.25 feet.
*checks math* i raised it to the 1/2 instead of 1/3 :smallredface: