Modern Super Ninjas

[TheThan]

i'm not sure if this should go here, or elsewhere.

Ok so here’s the deal. I was reading some manga about ninjas the other day and I got to thinking how a clan of ninjas would survive in a modern world. Now I’m not talking about Naruto style ninjas, which are basically wizards/sorcerers anyway. I’m talking about the classic black clad “masters of invisibility”, you see in other forms of media, you know, movies (‘80s ninja movies come to mind), video games etc.

I call these sorts of ninjas “modern super ninjas”, because they will need to be far in away superior to the ninjas of old, which didn’t have to contend with the vast amount of technology that we enjoy.

What sort of skills and techniques would a ninja need to utilize to bypass things like modern security systems such as closed circuit tv, computer controlled locks, laser alarms (you break the beam it sets it off) safes and vaults, etc. How would a ninja defeat modern forensics such as finger printing, DNA testing etc in order to remain at large (IE not arrested). When forced to fight, how does a ninja deal with guns and modern combat armor (say riot police gear). I’m sure there are plenty of other forms of defense a ninja would need to be able to overcome, I’m just not thinking of them.

I want to take a certain degree of realism into account. so the security system has been in place and functioning for some time now. So I'll apply one primary rule: anything mystical can only affect people, not objects. Now keep in mind that a ninja's primary job is to get in, accomplish his goal, and escape without being noticed. So what are your thoughts on the subject

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Ninja had no aversions to explosions, I feel like, and they provide a great diversion; take out the power long enough to get in, then just get out. DNA testing is only a big deal if your DNA gets in the system. Living "off the grid" would be essential.

[Gaius Marius]

Dude: Ninja Assassin. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Assassin)

Check it out :smallbiggrin:

[Jahkaivah]

So basically Batman?

[TheThan]

So basically Batman?

naw, batman just runs around beating up badguys.

I'm talking about a ninja being payed to do ninja stuff. like steal indestrual secrets for instance.

[bladesyz]

naw, batman just runs around beating up badguys.

I'm talking about a ninja being payed to do ninja stuff. like steal indestrual secrets for instance.

You mean a hacker? (or cracker, if you want to get technical)

The problem with "modern" ninja is all of what defines a "ninja" is pretty much obsolete:

- katana, shuriken: just use a silenced gun
- black clothing and mask: useless against electronic security systems, and it's easier to just hack into the network than physically infiltrating a compound.

[Comet]

A lot of the classic cyberpunk literature and such is set in a world where Japan is the dominant power, at least culturally and often both politically and industrially to boot.

As such, it stands to reason that there are a lot of Japanese traditions making their way into the world of tomorrow in such settings. Shadowrun, for instance, has street samurais running around and even Gibson's work has a few characters who go about their business in a very ninja kind of way, exotic weapons and all.

For visual inspiration and some gadgets, Splinter Cell does the modern ninja archetype pretty well. In some levels, mostly in multiplayer, the hero(es) wear black sneaking suits and very ninja-esque headwear, complete with night vision goggles for maximum tech appeal.

[Traab]

Modern ninja would by necessity have incredible skills with electronics and computers as well as their previous skills. They would likely spend more time practicing accuracy with a hand gun than a blow gun, and shorter blades for tight quarter combat, but id imagine that in general appearance they would have very similar sneak suits to classic ninja styles, with at best a few upgrades to include room for any electronic hacking tools he may need. But in reality, most of the classic tools would still be highly useful to a modern day ninja. Black eggs would still be great for blinding someone before finishing them off, even things like throwing knives and stars would be handy in a pinch. They might add on some random things like tasers for a quick incapacitation but the old tools would still be quite functional.

[An Enemy Spy]

You do realize that ninjas didn't actually dress up in the black suits? That was created for Japanese theater, where the "ninja" looked like one of the black clad stagehands that the audience had been trained to ignore. When he killed someone, the audience didn't expect it, because really didn't even "see" him until it was too late, thus snhowing him being stealthy.

[TheThan]

You do realize that ninjas didn't actually dress up in the black suits? That was created for Japanese theater, where the "ninja" looked like one of the black clad stagehands that the audience had been trained to ignore. When he killed someone, the audience didn't expect it, because really didn't even "see" him until it was too late, thus snhowing him being stealthy.

Yes I know. I’m just trying to establish the style of ninja I’m talking about. I’m sure they wore whatever was appropriate for their task at hand.

[Mewtarthio]

So, what's the difference between these guys and special forces? They're privately-owned and probably illegal? It's certainly easy to imagine that, and if you're going for a pulpier feel, that's really all you need to do.

[Makeitstop]

I understand you are going for a type of fictional ninja, so don't misunderstand me here. I think it's helpful to look at the real life equivalents; spies, and special forces.

Just like real ninjas, spies don't rely on being invisible as much as deception. A disguise that makes it seem like you belong somewhere or aren't worth paying attention to is far more effective than sneaking around in very conspicuous stealthy clothing. The gear they carry is minimalistic in design, and usually hiding in plain sight. Unless you know exactly what to look for, you could strip search them and never know that they had an arsenal of weapons and gadgets.

Special forces are the flip side of the coin. They tend to operate in areas where deception will not help very much, so they need to stick to stealth and lethality. A modern ninja would most likely share their love of firepower and guerilla warfare. Sniping and explosives are likely to be particularly useful.

In both these cases, keep in mind that the guy in the field is only part of the team. Coordinating with other members of a unit, as well with a command center full of intel and tech support is extremely helpful.

[Anarion]

I think a major part of this question is what kind of jobs the ninjas are being hired to perform. If it's something like kidnapping and assassination then I would say that Makeitstop's comparison to special forces would be about right.

If you're using them as infiltrators and spies, one would expect plain clothes ninjas with tech gadgets that are disguised as normal items (all I can picture now is a James Bond laser watch...). These would probably be things like microphones and communications equipment disguised as other things so they can relay information quickly and easily. There would also be a strong effort here to produce fake identification materials and keep their DNA and fingerprints off the record.

You could also use them as some kind of military scouts, in which case I would expect them to be able to operate independently in hostile territory for a long period of time. That probably means a variety of weapons, particularly things like snipers for long range combat. It would also mean survival gear, light communication equipment, perhaps even some of those scout drones that can be folded up into a backpack and controlled on a laptop.

edited: fixed a grammar mistake.

[Innis Cabal]

How has Dr. McNinja not been mentioned yet?

[AtomicKitKat]

Some form of smoke-grenade, or other smoke-creation device with which to expose lasers and/or hide away with. Several small mirrors with which to deflect lasers. Ideally, if you can find some way to bend lasers around you(ie, by making it do four 90 degree turns about you). For motion sensors, I think Mythbusters proved that a blanket in front of you would do the trick. The hard part is carrying a whole kilo of linen around on top of all your other equipment. And that's not including the fact that it's bulky.

[Eldan]

Heh. That talk of Mythbusters reminds me of the episode where they fooled a fingerprint reader by making a photocopy of the fingerprint and shoving that over the reader.

[Traab]

Some form of smoke-grenade, or other smoke-creation device with which to expose lasers and/or hide away with. Several small mirrors with which to deflect lasers. Ideally, if you can find some way to bend lasers around you(ie, by making it do four 90 degree turns about you). For motion sensors, I think Mythbusters proved that a blanket in front of you would do the trick. The hard part is carrying a whole kilo of linen around on top of all your other equipment. And that's not including the fact that it's bulky.

You mentioned the mythbusters episode so im surprised you included the smoke screen to see light beams thing, as that quite frequently set off the alarms.

[SurlySeraph]

CCTV cameras: avoid them, mess with the circuit breakers, do that implausible movie trick where you tape a still photo of the area over the lens... or just have an accomplice do something distracting on one of them and hope the same guard that's watching that is watching the camera that covers the area you're going through.
Computer controlled locks: punch them until they open. OK, you could use a magnetic keycard that changes pattern for keycard locks, or try to pry open the mechanism and mess with the wires, but you're a ninja. You can punch things open.
Laser alarms: wear a suit of a metamaterial that refracts them (optimal), go around them, do something vaguely plausible with mirrors, etc.
Finger printing: gloves. Or coat your hands in a thin layer of clear glue and let it dry and scrape off the excess. Seriously though, gloves.
DNA: shaved head and lots of clothing to reduce the amount of hair that'll fall around, and hope you're not in the database.
Guns: shoot first or run away.
Armor: trip the guy and either stab him or run away.


- katana, shuriken: just use a silenced gun

Plasma katanas. (http://www.sciencepunk.com/2008/05/gruesome-yet-awesome-plasma-scalpel/) Shuriken that... I dunno, spray nerve gas as they spin? Explode?


- black clothing and mask: useless against electronic security systems, and it's easier to just hack into the network than physically infiltrating a compound.

Metamaterials that refract infrared light are easier to make than ones that refract visual light, if I remember correctly, so invisibility to infrared cameras would be a vaguely plausible excuse.


In both these cases, keep in mind that the guy in the field is only part of the team. Coordinating with other members of a unit, as well with a command center full of intel and tech support is extremely helpful.

I agree with your post until here. Here you run up against the Inverse Ninja Law. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConservationOfNinjutsu)

[AtomicKitKat]

You mentioned the mythbusters episode so im surprised you included the smoke screen to see light beams thing, as that quite frequently set off the alarms.

Doesn't have to be thick smoke. Just enough to show the lasers. Might want to avoid setting off the sprinklers though.

[Kris Strife]

No one said Dr. McNinja yet? (http://drmcninja.com/) :smalltongue:

[Thinker]

i'm not sure if this should go here, or elsewhere.

Ok so here’s the deal. I was reading some manga about ninjas the other day and I got to thinking how a clan of ninjas would survive in a modern world. Now I’m not talking about Naruto style ninjas, which are basically wizards/sorcerers anyway. I’m talking about the classic black clad “masters of invisibility”, you see in other forms of media, you know, movies (‘80s ninja movies come to mind), video games etc.

I call these sorts of ninjas “modern super ninjas”, because they will need to be far in away superior to the ninjas of old, which didn’t have to contend with the vast amount of technology that we enjoy.

What sort of skills and techniques would a ninja need to utilize to bypass things like modern security systems such as closed circuit tv, computer controlled locks, laser alarms (you break the beam it sets it off) safes and vaults, etc. How would a ninja defeat modern forensics such as finger printing, DNA testing etc in order to remain at large (IE not arrested). When forced to fight, how does a ninja deal with guns and modern combat armor (say riot police gear). I’m sure there are plenty of other forms of defense a ninja would need to be able to overcome, I’m just not thinking of them.

I want to take a certain degree of realism into account. so the security system has been in place and functioning for some time now. So I'll apply one primary rule: anything mystical can only affect people, not objects. Now keep in mind that a ninja's primary job is to get in, accomplish his goal, and escape without being noticed. So what are your thoughts on the subject

Modern physical security systems are generally on a closed network, which makes hacking into them implausible. They also include infrared sensors, traditional cameras, point-to-point alarms, latch alarms on doors/entrances, timeouts for open/closed status, and an active observer watching all of this. To defeat all of this, a ninja would need some way to avoid visual detection, conceal heat and maneuver on areas that were not meant to be walked on (like walls or a ceiling). Short-range teleportation would also be handy.

Alternatively, of a less-mystical/mysterious nature, having a contact on the inside works wonders. So does figuring out how to cut the power and finding the backup generator, but that would trigger some level of suspicion.

I would think that a modern ninja would avoid messy weapons like a sword or a gun that might leave forensic evidence at the scene of the crime. Tasers, cattle prods, and tranquilizers would make sense. In case of being spotted, a gun and a knife/short sword would make sense as well. A full kit of tools that includes a utility knife, small drill, screw driver, hammer, etc. would make sense.

Ninjas are basically spies/assassins. They should not be interested in being involved in a fair fight and should take the opportunity to flee as much as possible. If you are granting a short-range teleport or invisibility to a ninja, that would probably be a good enough escape mechanism for when s/he gets cornered.

[Asthix]

I happen to have an actual ninja handbook (http://the-isb.blogspot.com/2007/03/most-important-blog-post-you-may-ever.html) which states that true ninja avoid detection when climbing up walls by doing so with their back against the wall. That is the most impressive thing about ninja that I've found.

[Dr.Epic]

How has no one mentioned yet...

Pierre Kirby

[Gorgondantess]

Pretty much this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCo5ltLvJg)

[Seonor]

Pretty much this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCo5ltLvJg)

Pretty much. But also this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1MkjmbdHUM), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI9KhPJ-utE) and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpf0NFVLEn8). Very fitting that two of those films are named after japanese warriors, but the methods used by all of them would fit ninjas very well.

[Indon]

Modern physical security systems are generally on a closed network, which makes hacking into them implausible. They also include infrared sensors, traditional cameras, point-to-point alarms, latch alarms on doors/entrances, timeouts for open/closed status, and an active observer watching all of this. To defeat all of this, a ninja would need some way to avoid visual detection, conceal heat and maneuver on areas that were not meant to be walked on (like walls or a ceiling). Short-range teleportation would also be handy.
Or an exhaustive knowledge of where the pertinent circuits are and a physical tap point, which is conceivable for some underground complexes.

I envision the modern ninja, taken realistically, to be a secret agent type. They dress in business suits or whatever else blends them in. They kill their targets by poisoning them with radioactive Polonium, KGB-style. They hack systems using social engineering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_%28security%29).

[AtomicKitKat]

Or an exhaustive knowledge of where the pertinent circuits are and a physical tap point, which is conceivable for some underground complexes.

I envision the modern ninja, taken realistically, to be a secret agent type. They dress in business suits or whatever else blends them in. They kill their targets by poisoning them with radioactive Polonium, KGB-style. They hack systems using social engineering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_%28security%29).

I don't trust the business suit idea. If I was a paranoid CEO or whatever, I'd probably mandate some degree of forensic DNA gathering and/or testing maybe randomly(but no less than a week apart). Really paranoid CEOs would have some form of blood-test lock(wherein the person has to insert their hand into a scanner, that pricks their pinky for a single drop to compare to a master sample). Latex masks do work in a lower tech environment(like the white dude who made police look for a black dude after robbing somewhere).

[Eldan]

I don't trust the business suit idea. If I was a paranoid CEO or whatever, I'd probably mandate some degree of forensic DNA gathering and/or testing maybe randomly(but no less than a week apart). Really paranoid CEOs would have some form of blood-test lock(wherein the person has to insert their hand into a scanner, that pricks their pinky for a single drop to compare to a master sample). Latex masks do work in a lower tech environment(like the white dude who made police look for a black dude after robbing somewhere).

So... the modern ninja has to employ Gattaca methods?

[ThePhantasm]

naw, batman just runs around beating up badguys.

I'm talking about a ninja being payed to do ninja stuff. like steal indestrual secrets for instance.

Um... Batman doesn't just do that. Read the comics. He sneaks into industrial places all the time, does detective work, hacks into things, uses advanced technology, spies on villains, etc. As for "stealing" industrial secrets, well, that's Catwoman, who also has some similar skills.

Batman is your super ninja in a lot of ways.

[Galileo]

Basically, I think you're looking for Kasumi Goto from Mass Effect 2. She's stealthy, a master hacker, uses an invisibility device, is so good she has never had a criminal record and currently owns the Koh-I-Noor and the Mona Lisa.

[Innis Cabal]

How has Dr. McNinja not been mentioned yet?


No one said Dr. McNinja yet? (http://drmcninja.com/) :smalltongue:

Sure have. :smallwink:

[Thinker]

Or an exhaustive knowledge of where the pertinent circuits are and a physical tap point, which is conceivable for some underground complexes.

I envision the modern ninja, taken realistically, to be a secret agent type. They dress in business suits or whatever else blends them in. They kill their targets by poisoning them with radioactive Polonium, KGB-style. They hack systems using social engineering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_%28security%29).

If the circuits don't report to the system, an alarm goes off and someone goes to check it out. The important circuits are protected by the same system that protects everything else. Real security systems are really, really good.

I agree with your business suit idea. Ninjas would wear whatever blended them best with their environment. That's a lot like modern thieves, spies, and assassins. I think the big difference between ninjas and other modern people specializing in subterfuge would be philosophical.

[TheThan]

Um... Batman doesn't just do that. Read the comics. He sneaks into industrial places all the time, does detective work, hacks into things, uses advanced technology, spies on villains, etc. As for "stealing" industrial secrets, well, that's Catwoman, who also has some similar skills.

Batman is your super ninja in a lot of ways.

maybe, but he's most known to the average person as being a guy who sneaks around at night and beats up bad guys. see just about every batman movie ever made.

anyway, On the “art of invisibility”:
I think a lot of what people have said fits perfectly well with the concept. It’s more than just going Poof in a puff of smoke and being camouflaged. It would probably have more to do with not being noticed, blending in with people, being inconspicuous, staying off the grid, etc.

[Jahkaivah]

most known to the average person as being a guy who sneaks around at night and beats up bad guys.

As are Ninjas. :smalltongue:

[Indon]

If the circuits don't report to the system, an alarm goes off and someone goes to check it out. The important circuits are protected by the same system that protects everything else. Real security systems are really, really good.

I was thinking more of a man-in-the-middle between points. Setting up the tap might make the system quirk out, but unless the entire line is investigated, the tap probably wouldn't be detected (quantum-encrypted lines nonwithstanding). You can then send spoof information either way across the line.

Of course, that in turn could be beaten by a system that looks for node ping time discrepancies, depending on the design of the tap itself.


I think the big difference between ninjas and other modern people specializing in subterfuge would be philosophical.

Very agreed.

[TheThan]

As are Ninjas. :smalltongue:

touché

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