I Choose You, Huge Fiendish Monstrous Scorpion!

[mootoall]

I was wondering something about the "Summon Monster" chain of spells, and I was wondering when it starts to be less worth it to take/cast/prepare them. I generally see that their awesome peaks at the point where you can summon an Ice Devil, but does anyone have any differing opinions?

[Cog]

It depends on how good you are at Batmanning and how often you need to do it. The main advantage of summoning (if you don't build around it) is in getting access to an ability you didn't have already; for a crazy-prepared wizard, the advantage falls off pretty quickly, while a blasty sorcerer still has a lot of utility to gain from the spell-likes and supernaturals of his summons into the higher levels.

[Akal Saris]

It also depends on how specialized you are in summoning. If you're a malconvoker/alienist/thaumaturgist, odds are you want to summon things at every level.

Otherwise, SM VIII is probably the last "good" one, since vrocks and greater elementals are both good picks, and a fiendish tyrannosaurus is simply stylish. SM IX is competing with Time Stop, Shapechange, Gate, Wish, and Summon Elemental Monolith, and it just doesn't measure up.

[mootoall]

So let's say you're a sorcerer doing the Malconvoker route. Would you really devote one of your spells known at every level to summoning, or are there some where the lists are skippable?

[Cog]

Each time you gain a level, you'd want to have the latest list available to you. Using the known-spells-swap to get rid of some of the lower ones you aren't using anymore isn't going to hurt you, though.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For a Sorcerer, see if you can get a Runestaff from MIC with a few Summon Monsters in it, and upgrade what levels of summons it grants as you gain access to higher level spells. That way you're not wasting spells known having a summon spell of every single level, and you're not wasting your limited spell repicks at the even levels. At the higher levels I'd probably stop at VII with Huge Earth Elementals, unless you want to get more per casting.

In the lower levels, Summon Undead tends to be better than Summon Monster, for either attacks/round with Owlbear Skeletons or meat shield Ogre Zombies. Plus you're guaranteed a set number of creatures for picking from a lower level list, rather than being screwed with a low 1d3 roll. The Summon Undead line all has the [evil] tag, so use them with caution. If there's a paladin in the party you'd better hope he doesn't have any Spellcraft ranks, which if that's the case just tell him they're illusions and keep an eye on your own alignment.

Summon Swarm is also preferable to Summon Monster II, unless you're fighting small opponents in which case the medium scorpion can use its improved grab. Summon Nature's Ally is usually better than Summon Monster, especially with Rashemi Elemental Summoning and/or Greenbound Summoning.

Get an Eternal Wand (MIC) of Hound of Doom (CW), you won't regret it.

[ken-do-nim]

It also depends on how specialized you are in summoning. If you're a malconvoker/alienist/thaumaturgist, odds are you want to summon things at every level.

Otherwise, SM VIII is probably the last "good" one, since vrocks and greater elementals are both good picks, and a fiendish tyrannosaurus is simply stylish. SM IX is competing with Time Stop, Shapechange, Gate, Wish, and Summon Elemental Monolith, and it just doesn't measure up.

SM IX allows you to bring in a leonal, who has many great clerical abilities like heal, remove disease, neutralize poison, lay on hands, and cure critical wounds. If you don't have a cleric in the party, or you are adventuring solo which is something I like to do, it's pretty nice. Plus the leonal has wall of force at-will, the holy word roar, the protective aura, a spring attack, a pounce, and even a fireball. All-in-all a very good buddy for a solo adventuring sorceror or wizard.

[Gnoman]

There's also the ability to summon groups from lower levels of SM. This can come in handy if you are suffering from an action deficiency due to being outnumbered.

[Gnaeus]

Summon Swarm is also preferable to Summon Monster II, unless you're fighting small opponents in which case the medium scorpion can use its improved grab.

I had a much longer post, but it got eaten. SM2 gives access to critters that fight in water. It allows flying/swimming/climbing mounts to get past obstacles. Lemures are good in a fight with AOE conditions (like in a burning building). It lets you do AOE acid damage (in case you are fighting a swarm). You can summon 1d3 monkeys to pull levers or otherwise spring traps. It is MAYBE a weaker spell in a straight fight (or maybe not. you have no control over the swarm), but it is much more versatile

[ken-do-nim]

There's also the ability to summon groups from lower levels of SM. This can come in handy if you are suffering from an action deficiency due to being outnumbered.

Right, SMIX can be used to get 2-5 avorals, each of which can heal 66 hp. If you get 5, it's like a mass heal spell.

If you have augment summoning, you get 2-5 avorals each of which can heal 80 hp.