Souls or XP or Both!

[Sinpoder]

Ok there is what is going on. I am going to DM a game where all my players are Devils in the Nine Hells, but they are unique in the way that they will not start as mindless wretchs known as Lemures. They will raise from the Maggot Pit or whatever as humans looking Devils. They will be spotted by the guys ( I think chain Devils run that kind of thing) and then sent to The King of Hell for...... examination... but they will survive with there bodies and souls intake... if they are not stupid. Anyway I have been reading the Fiend Codex II like a christan priest reads the bible, and I know for a fact that is generally takes a imp a total of nine souls, that he personally turned, to be promoted to..... crap I forgot.......

But my problem is that once my characters reach the "right" to use the Pacts, then how many souls do you need to rank up.... or how much xp do you need or do you need both....

I ask because I am sure that there is a guy in hell that can get up very high buy soul alone, while weak as hell while someone that has the power of a pit fiend is left at his low ass status. The problem is the good leaders have both so should I make that a requirement.... Then that brings up a point for me, how is it that the leaders of Hell, ( Dukes, Lords, ect. ) spend all there time in hell and still become more powerful.... I know they get there powers from the divine power of souls but does that translate into XP........

I would love for a base amount for each rank up.... like X amount of Souls and Xp for X rank.... I would love any and all help....

[Arbitrarious]

Assign an XP value to the soul based on the HD of the creature it came from. Then determine if you are going to use LA or CR. Have the PCs level by gaining exp for the souls they collect. Powerful souls are worth more so require fewer while weaker souls may require much more and souls too weak (pit fiend killing kobolds) would grant so little as to be worthless. You would need to balance advancing their existing form with going to a new one. That may take some thinking.

Edit: NM page 24 gives the exp breakdown.

You may also want to look at the organization system from Complete Champion and have each duke be their own faction. Basically you have a base rep based on the highest rep you have with any duke of hell and gain do favors for, give souls to, kill enemies of a duke you want to curry favor with. Rep can grant you easy passage through that dukes level, minions, and other resources tied to that duke. That means a player may stop evolving at chain devil but have 18 HD and be a grand general in Bal's army outfitted with gear given to him by his lord.

[Sinpoder]

Ok I have the complete Champ around I think. I will take a look and deside.

EDIT: Ok I took a look and I have thought about a system and I want some opions on it

Bel:
+1/2 of Character level
Slays a demon +1/5th CR
Slays a Demon Lord +CR
Fight in the Blood War +1/Per Battle


Ranks Score Benefits
0 3 or lower None

1 4-12

2 13-21

3 22-39

4 40-49

5 50+






Ok if you guys can think of anything I should add, I can't think of any good benifets for a follower of Bel......

[Arbitrarious]

Bel

Rank 0: Grunt
Rank 1: Soldier- +2 on knowledge checks to determine abilities and weakness of demons
Rank 2: Bel's Elite- +1 on saves against special abilities of demons
Rank 3: Knight Infernum- +1 on attack and damage rolls against demons
Rank 4: Sword of the Pit- Once per day enhance a weapon with bane (chaotic outsider) for up to 1 min
Rank 5: Bloodlord- Once per day use summon monster to call forth a non-choatic evil outsider to fight for you. You can use any summon monster whose level is equal to 1/2 your HD.

[Sinpoder]

That is very very good....... now I have to do a couple for the other lords or Hell. but I figured that most of my players will work for Asmodeus and I know that it will a hell of alot harder to get nice nice with him but the rewards will be a hell of alot higher........ I will use the same chart as before but up the first tier from 0 to 11.

The issue is...... what would Asmodeus give his devils...... Bel is kinda ovibous being the Lord of War.

[Arbitrarious]

I wouldn't do more then 6 ranks, just make them further apart.

0- Minion
1- Lackey: +2 on Diplomacy and Intimidate checks against weaker creatures
2- Henchdevil: +1 to attack and damage rolls against a creature who has attacked your superior this encounter
3- Pawn: 1/day command (DC 1/2 HD +Cha mod)
4- Sycophant: 1/day Morality Undone (DC 1/2 HD +Cha mod)
5- Adviser: 1/day gain a bonus to bluff, diplomacy, or intimidate check equal to HD
6- Vizier: 1/day dominate a devil for up to 10 min (DC 1/2 HD +Cha mod)
7- "Trusted" Vizier: A knife in the back, you've proven yourself too dangerous.

[Sinpoder]

Ummmm no offense but I don't think that it is possible for any devil to be a threat to Asmodeus. The gods can't even touch this man because of the Primival Pact and even if they could it would be a hard task that would take a very very long time and most likely not be worth the effort. So I dont think I will use 7.....

[Arbitrarious]

It was more of a joke then anything. Remember I said use 6. Keep in mind though, threat doesn't always mean to oneself. Big red has plans and goals of his own and an upstart fiend inside his court could make him have to reevaluate or scrap plans altogether. Also, gods can't touch him because of the pact. The same doesn't go for archfiends. Just because no one has done it yet doesn't mean no one could. I often thought asmodeous kept the other arch fiends in place because they all have some crippling personality disorders that could be exploited. Cautioned and reasoned PCs may not have an easy control built in. Besides I'm sure he does have a large number of potential problems dealt with in such a manner. He's not stupid enough to assume that he is invincible.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Remember I said use 6.

Personally, I'd be tempted to use 9, if only because of the 9 layers of Hell thing.


He's not stupid enough to assume that he is invincible.

This. Asmodeus is extremely powerful, but the Nine Hells honestly aren't at all interesting without all the conspiracy, back-stabbing, and tense political situations that the interactions between the Lords brings. If Asmodeus is completely invincible, he cannot be threatened, and if he cannot be threatened then the balance goes out the window. Honestly, I'd be tempted to have his power obvious and apparently, but also have it be clear that his throne is always trembling, even if not necessarily in danger of crumbling.

[Arbitrarious]

Personally, I'd be tempted to use 9, if only because of the 9 layers of Hell thing.

I was thinking number of the beast, but your idea has a great deal more elegance.


This. Asmodeus is extremely powerful, but the Nine Hells honestly aren't at all interesting without all the conspiracy, back-stabbing, and tense political situations that the interactions between the Lords brings. If Asmodeus is completely invincible, he cannot be threatened, and if he cannot be threatened then the balance goes out the window. Honestly, I'd be tempted to have his power obvious and apparently, but also have it be clear that his throne is always trembling, even if not necessarily in danger of crumbling.

Agreed, gods can die and Asmodeus isn't even there yet. Also I find him far more enjoyable as a magnificent bastard then some omnipotent being. D&D has enough of those.

And lastly I hate the pact primeval. It basically has the gods of law acting like blithering idiots. Beings who are order and reason embodied getting tricked multiple times by someone who was obviously being corrupted by the forces he was fighting. If I was a king and I sent a bunch of paladins to go fight undead and they started coming back grey skinned and gaunt then offered radical and unsettling solutions to the problem of undead I would probably question their motives. If it's unexpected I could see him pulling one over on them the first time, but he keeps doing it. It also seems to ignore the existence of chaotic deities or evil gods who would want the same souls as the devils. Also devils can only tempt towards evil, not chaos, so no law should be broken in theory. Bah, plot holes. I just scrap the whole thing.

I prefer casting Asmodeus as the first sinner. The first mortal who blasphemed against the gods and was cast into into jail made from material ripped from the abyss itself. Others followed warped by their wickedness into the first devils. The hells were then placed as a seal to the abyss and the gods gave Asmodeus and other damned souls an impossible task, one they could not do themselves, defeat the hordes of the abyss. Until they did their souls would be trapped in the Nine Hells for eternity without peace or joy or mercy. Thus the gods pitied the fiends against each other and prevented the hordes of the abyss from consuming the mortal plane. Devils fight their war seeking their freedom from the chains of hell independent of a desire for redemption. Powerful devils such as archfiends have grown accustomed to their existence and pursue other agendas. Asmodues now seeks the ultimate blasphemy to throw in the face of those who cast him down; godhood and the ability to stand amongst his tormentors as an equal. His undeniable power wrought by his own hand and built upon the backs of the damned souls discarded by the gods.