Shadow SUn Ninja Help

[dragonfire42]

In an upcoming campaign this weekend I am planning to play a shadow sun ninja. Does anyone know of a good build for one? I will be 15th level.

[vikingofdoom]

Swordsage5/SSN 10 is simple, without losing out on too much. Better optimizers than myself can probably come up with better builds, but first will need some basics. Listing the following can help: Stats (yours if rolled, PB if used), money available, optimization level, party composition, party role desired, etc.

[dragonfire42]

I am going to be in a high optimized party. I am going to be a scout and a striker. I will have 200,00 gp to spend. The stats I rolled up were very lucky: 18, 18, 16, 14, 12, 12. Hopefully that will help others help me!

[Talbot]

Use Necropolitan for your race. As long as you have a living ally, you have limitless healing.

[dragonfire42]

Personally, that is too much cheese for me.

[Talbot]

Fair enough. It's not enough healing per round to make a huge difference in combat, it's just kind of nice for long adventuring days/if nobody else wants to play a healer.

[Saph]

A very odd and specialised build, but here's a way to turn a Shadow Sun Ninja into something extremely lethal: Person Man's Blinky the Ninja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4666858&postcount=5).

[dragonfire42]

We have a highly optimized healbot so healing is no problem. I am really looking for a simple and effective build that is enough to be able to be a threat to enemies but not break the game.

[Talbot]

Alternative build:

Swordsage 5/ Shadow Sun Ninja X/Teflammar Shadowlord 5/Shadow Sun Ninja X

This, you're going to want to run by your DM as Teflammar is an incredibly annoying class to get into, and different DMs will approve/refute Swordsage's abilities as counting as "sneak attack" and "teleportation". That said, it's a nifty class that fits flavor-wise with what you're trying to do, ups your offensive firepower without breaking the game, and makes you very, very hard to kill permanently.

TLDR: If your DM says ok, you get to be Nightcrawler.

[dragonfire42]

I don't think I will be able to use that. If I stick to just swordsage5/shadow sun ninja10, what feats and manuvers do you suggest?

[Talbot]

Depends what you want to do. Generally-

Shadow Hand- You're like a ninja.
Setting Sun- You're like a judo master.
Desert Wind- You're like a Street Fighter character.
Stone Dragon- You're like the Juggernaut.
Diamond Mind- You're like Daredevil.
Tiger Claw- You're two-weapon fighting, and doing it better than a Ranger.

Pick the two of those that interest you the most, focus on them, then cherry pick from the others.

I'd also suggest going into Master of Nine as you level if you can spare the feats, and then you get to start using the very very good and very very fun Iron Heart and Devoted Spirit Maneuvers and stances.


Edit: Feats, grab Adaptive Style. Other than that, depends on your stats and what you're trying to do, but I'm fond of the Weapon Finesse/Shadow Hand combo if you're specializing in Shadow Hand (which, since you're going Shadow Sun Ninja, you likely will). Darkstalker is a good one for scouts/sneaky types. Improved Trip + Setting Sun moves can be a lot of fun, but takes two feats and decent Int (which Swordsages don't usually have).

[dragonfire42]

Shadowsun ninja levels only give you shadowhand and setting sun maneuvers. Also, what feats should I use

[Talbot]

Right, but you're taking five levels of Swordsage and you're getting more maneuvers from that then you are from ten of Shadow Sun.

[dragonfire42]

Ok thank you!

[vikingofdoom]

For feats, priority number one is adaptive style: reload all your manoeuvres as a full-round action, as opposed to the normal, really long recharge mechanism. Second, grab weapon finesse/shadow blade if you focus on DEX. Those are probably going to be the three primary feats you'll need. For stances, you get 3 SS stances, and 1 SSN stance, at the levels 2/0/1/0/1. I recommend Step of the Wind (so as to negate the penalties for rough terrain), Island of Blades (so as to make flanking easier), Assassin's Stance (for sneak attack damage), and Hearing the Air (to get blindsense). Other people might have different opinions on stances. Manoeuvres will be posted later tonight.

[Saint GoH]

Im AFB right now, but as I recall SSN has an ability that you deal Wisdom damage as Negative energy then heal as positive? Perhaps dipping Shiba Protector from Oriental Adventures and focusing on your Wis and Dex.

Shadowblade + Shiba Protector= Wis and Dex to attack and Damage, and since your SSN ability is keyed off wisdom that'll help. Also consider Snapkick and Superior Unarmed Strike for when you use that Wisdom based ability.

Focus on Shadow Hand maneuvers. Setting Sun is well and good but requires weird stats and ShadowHand fits right in with SSN.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

As a strong suggestion, find a way to get immune to negative levels. That way you can abuse your capstone ability without worrying about turning into a daywalker vampire.

[Waker]

As a strong suggestion, find a way to get immune to negative levels. That way you can abuse your capstone ability without worrying about turning into a daywalker vampire.
The Balance of Light And Dark says you take 1 point of Constitution damage for each negative level you bestow on enemies, you don't get negative levels yourself. You need to find a way to prevent ability score damage.

[Darrin]

The Balance of Light And Dark says you take 1 point of Constitution damage for each negative level you bestow on enemies, you don't get negative levels yourself. You need to find a way to prevent ability score damage.

Balance of Light and Dark doesn't have a "you can't use this ability if you are immune to Con damage" clause, so Necropolitan would work very nicely. Strongheart Vest or a Binder dip for Naberius might also help, but since the Con damage is applied in a lump sum at the end of the 1-minute transformation, a Talisman of Undying Fortitude (8000 GP, MIC p. 188) would be much more effective.