(3.5) Sorc Feats - Continued

[kayden87]

Stats Base + Old +Aasimar +Magic-Blooded + Lv 4 = Total

Str: 8 -3 = 5
Dex: 15 -3 =12
Con: 15 -3 =12
Int: 10 +2 =12
Wis: 8 +2 +2 -2 =10
Chr: 16 +2 +2 +2 +1 = 23


Feats: + The Otyugh Hole in Complete Scoundrel +Iron Will and -3000gp

Sorc 1 Lv 1: Extend Spell, F1 Dragon Heritage, F2 Dragon Power (Shen lung)
Sorc 2 Lv 2:
Sorc 3 Lv 3: Energy Substitution (Electricity)
Sorc 4 Lv 4:
Sorc 5 Lv 5:
Incantrix 1 Lv 6: Chain Spell, Sudden Max Spell (Bonus Meta)
Incantrix 2 Lv 7:
Incantrix 3 Lv 8:
Incantrix 4 Lv 9: Persistent Spell
Incantrix 5 Lv 10: Sudden Emp Spell (Bonus Meta)
Incantrix 6 Lv 11:
Incantrix 7 Lv 12: Twin Spell
Incantrix 8 Lv 13:
Incantrix 9 Lv 14:
Incantrix 10 Lv 15: Quicken Spell, Sudden Still Spell (Bonus Meta)
?? Lv 16:
?? Lv 17:
?? Lv 18: Feat??
?? Lv 19:
?? Lv 20:
?? Lv 21: Feat??

From my last post --http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189158 --

I did some changes, fixed a few things. Not sure what to add as my last 6 levels that add + arcane spell levels and the 2 last feats. I was shown mind better for 1 lvl dip into it for the +2 Fort.. Eh. Mage of the Arcane order is ok but i need Co-Op Spell for it.

I was looking at, Holy Scourge, or even Ultimate Magus Both seem decent.

[Swooper]

I don't see Versatile Spellcaster there.

[Aethir]

How are you getting into Incantatrix at 6th as a Sorcerer? You don't get 3rd level spells until you actually hit 6, and you need them to qualify.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

What do you want this character to do? Deal damage? Crowd control? I see you intend to waste quite a few feats on sudden metamagics, which aren't worth taking on a playable character. Their only purpose is in a theoretical exercise of look-at-how-much-damage-this-spell-does on a character who's not very useful 14,399 rounds per day. Get Practical Metamagic for Quicken, Twin, and Maximize, and get Easy Metamagic from Dragon 325 for Quicken and Twin. Take Split Ray and use it with Ray of Stupidity, Ray of Dizziness, Ray of Light, Enervation, etc. Get Fell Drain from Libris Mortis and use it with Power Word: Pain in Races of the Dragon. Get Empower Spell, take Rapid Metamagic because you'll only have a few uses of Metamagic Specialist each day. Take Arcane Thesis for Wings of Flurry if you want to deal damage, with everything I listed at Incantatrix 10 you'll have a total metamagic increase of +0 if you apply every metamagic feat you know to it.

You need 3rd level spells to start taking Incantatrix, Sorcerer 5 doesn't accomplish that without tricks. That's why I suggested Sorcerer 5/ Mindbender 1/ Incantatrix in the other thread, because you can qualify for everything that way. Mindbender isn't for +2 Fort, it's for Telepathy 100 ft, which allows you to take the feat Mindsight from Lords of Madness page 126, which basically gives you Blindsense 100 ft. with regards to anything that has an Int score.

Holy Scourge loses spellcasting, which means it's probably not worth taking. Ultimate Magus is not a Sorcerer prestige class, it's made for a Beguiler/Wizard build, and you don't want to multiclass anyway. Since you'll be level 16 at Incantatrix 10, your last four pre-epic levels should probably be either Fatespinner 4 in Complete Arcane, or Divine Oracle 4 from Complete Divine. Starting at level 21 you should only take Epic Incantatrix (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20020915a) levels.

[kayden87]

ok I fixed my build to have mind bender and 4 lvls of fate spinner, fixed my feats also.

where can I find the wings of flurry for aethies spell or which ever its called

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wings of Flurry is a 4th level spell in Races of the Dragon. There are quite a few Sorcerer-only spells in that book, the best two are that one and Wings of Cover.

[kayden87]

oh lol ok, I was searching for it as a feat for like 30 mins last night :(

[kayden87]

what does the spell do? At work atm so no access to books

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

1d6 force damage per caster level to every opponent within 30 ft., reflex half, if they fail the save they're also dazed for one round. Dragonblood or dragon creature type casters get +1 CL. Unlike most spells that deal damage, there's no limit to how many dice it can get. At Incantatrix 10, level 16, caster level 17 with the dragonblood subtype, with Arcane Thesis, you can make it (Practical) Maximized, Empowered, (Practical, Easy) Twinned, Fell Drain, from a 4th level spell slot, to deal 204+17d6 damage to every opponent within 30 ft. of you, and anyone who takes damage gets a negative level. Then do a second one with (Practical, Easy) Quicken applied, again from a 4th level spell slot. Plus they all have to save vs massive damage, no energy resistances or immunities will apply, and anyone who fails the save for half damage loses their next round to the dazed effect. That's two chances to daze everyone for a round, two negative levels on everyone, and probably enough damage to kill everything anyway.

[kayden87]

wow thats amazing! op dragons...

[kayden87]

whats tge 200 base dmg from?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

When you Maximize and Empower a spell, you get +50% base value, not +50% max value. So it goes like this:
Base 17d6, Twinned makes it 34d6, Empowered makes it 34d6+17d6, Maximized makes it 204+17d6.

[kayden87]

ooh ok, now I got ya. nother question, if I took repeat spell will it copy the maximize, or juss the spell with no added metamagic feats

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Repeat Spell will make it happen again exactly as it was originally cast, with all the other metamagic feats included.

[kayden87]

nice, is repeat spell worth putting into the build?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you have enough feats, sure, but you'll also need Practical Metamagic for it so it won't cost anything when combined with Incantatrix 10 and Arcane Thesis. If you cast a metamagic Wings of Flurry twice in one round with quicken, everything's probably going to die and you won't even need Repeat Spell anyway.

Which makes me realize, I didn't include the +2 CL for Arcane Thesis in those damage numbers. It would actually be 228+19d6 when you're level 16 casting Wings of Flurry.

[kayden87]

Hmmm, Very interesting.

So I shouldnt get a bunch of random other feats then. If I just base my build around this Wings of Flurry spell, I will still be able to truck through epic also, If I can beat the SR of course

[Keld Denar]

SR is a joke, if you work at it. Wings of Flurry is a [Force] spell, so open up your Complete Mage. Invisible Needle is a reserve feat that works with force spells, and gives a +2 on CLs with force spells. If you cast Wings of Flurry a lot, Arcane Thesis (Wings of Flurry) gives you another +2 CL. Buy a 3rd Eye Penetrate (XPH/MIC) for another +2 effective CL. Take the feat Arcane Mastery from Complete Arcane. Yay, you get 4 extra dice on your Wings of Flurry, and you overcome SR that is 6 points higher than your character level (taking 10 +6 + CL) automatically. If you really want to base your strategy around that, its not that hard.

[kayden87]

Oh wow, how do I explain this to my GM with out him thinking its broken though lol. Thats my Number one trouble... DMs > D&D Bosses

[kayden87]

Now to think of it, If i can find a book that has a bunch of Force spells, ill juss cast nothing but Them. I took persistant spell so i can greater invis my self for 24 hours for the "lulz" I would be pretty powerfull

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It's all entirely dependent on the Incantatrix 10 ability, so it won't even work until you hit level 16. It looks like you're starting at level 4, so you'll be waiting quite a long time just to be able to use that trick. When you hit 9th level you can take Arcane Thesis in PH2 for Wings of Flurry, and the spell slot you cast it from is reduced by one per metamagic feat applied. Until then you should pick various debuff and disable spells which attack different saving throws, such as Grease (Reflex), Color Spray (Will), Glitterdust (Will), Web (Reflex), and Stinking Cloud (Fort). You'll need Charm Person to take Mindbender, and you'll want Wings of Cover (2nd) from Races of the Dragon.

You could use Sanctum Spell to make Wings of Flurry count as 3rd level, which would reduce the save DC, but you could use a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Maximize on it. If you apply Empower Spell as well, it would get +2 for Empower, then -3 for three metamagic feats but no lower than the spell's original level. Since Sanctum Spell would make it count as a 3rd level spell, you may be able to get away with casting it from a 3rd level spell slot instead of a 4th. Easy Metamagic counts as a metamagic feat for some reason, so you could take it for one of your bonus metamagic feats, and it would count toward Arcane Thesis. With Twin Spell and Easy Metamagic: Twin Spell, it would get +3 for the metamagic cost then another -2 for Arcane Thesis, and be cast from a 4th level spell slot as a Sanctum, (Rod of) Maximized, Empowered, Easy Twinned spell. That means:

1. Extend Spell, Sanctum Spell, Twin Spell
3. Empower Spell
6. Mindsight
7. Easy Metamagic: Twin Spell
9. Arcane Thesis: Wings of Flurry
10. Persistent Spell
12. Rapid Metamagic
13. Quicken Spell
15. open feat
16. Easy Metamagic: Quicken Spell
18. Arcane Disciple: Destiny or Trickery

[kayden87]

Ahh okay, I see

But I need the dragon Blood type to take it I assume, so I have to start out as a dragon subtype in order to copy that build?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Practical Metamagic requires the Dragonblood subtype, and I managed to exclude it from that feat list. You're entirely dependent on being able to use Easy Metamagic from Dragon 325, if that's not possible then you'll probably have to rethink your shtick.

[kayden87]

Ahh ok. So dragon 325 is the magazine right? Where abouts can you locate those, i tried to google them befor n failed

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The important information about that feat is that it reduces the metamagic cost of the chosen feat by one, but never below +1, and Easy Metamagic itself is considered a metamagic feat. As for getting your hands on Dragon 325, check local gaming stores for old issues, maybe check Craigslist, as the only electronic copies I'm aware of are copyright violations and we can't discuss those here so don't even ask.

[kayden87]

Mkay, should be ok to add the feat to my build ne ways. i show my GM these forums. If he sees that u said its dragon 325 n 3.5 rules should be fine

[Aspenor]

I'm going to echo the question: how are you getting in to Incantrix as a 5th level sorcerer? You need 3rd level spells and do not have them until level 6.

AKA right now your build does not work as written.

[kayden87]

Dragon power adds 1 caster lvl so i can cast lvl 3 spells atlvl 5, then PrC at 6

unless it doesnt work Ionno, Either way im removing the dragon sub type.so i gotta be 5sorc/1mb/ then incantrix

[Aspenor]

Dragon power adds 1 caster lvl so i can cast lvl 3 spells atlvl 5, then PrC at 6

unless it doesnt work Ionno, Either way im removing the dragon sub type.so i gotta be 5sorc/1mb/ then incantrix

That doesn't work. Taking a Mindbender level will put you where you need to be, though.

[kayden87]

actually i cant remember if it adds 1 caster level or 1 existing spell caster lvl

[Aspenor]

actually i cant remember if it adds 1 caster level or 1 existing spell caster lvl

I do remember. It doesn't add to "existing spell caster level." It just adds 1 CL, which isn't the same as adding another sorcerer level, and 1 DC with certain spells.

[Tyndmyr]

What do you want this character to do? Deal damage? Crowd control? I see you intend to waste quite a few feats on sudden metamagics, which aren't worth taking on a playable character. Their only purpose is in a theoretical exercise of look-at-how-much-damage-this-spell-does on a character who's not very useful 14,399 rounds per day.

They also become disproportionately useful with the sort of DM who plans one encounter a day. Those tend to look on the sudden metamagics in horror.

Granted, it's not my style of DMing or play...but in the right campaign, they can be amazingly potent. Crazy nova ability at the right time is totally worth it if the endurance tradeoff never really comes up.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Think about the Sand Shaper (from sandstorm) as a one level dip. Sure you lose one level of casting but you gain IIRC roughly 32 spells known from it.

EDIT: Energy Admixture is a good feat if you are already taking energy substitution.

[kayden87]

1. Extend Spell, Sanctum Spell, Twin Spell
3. Empower Spell
6. Mindsight
7. Easy Metamagic: Twin Spell
9. Arcane Thesis: Wings of Flurry
10. Persistent Spell
12. Rapid Metamagic
13. Quicken Spell
15. open feat
16. Easy Metamagic: Quicken Spell
18. Arcane Disciple: Destiny or Trickery

How are u getting feats at lvl 10 and 13?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Those are the bonus metamagic feats from Incantatrix. That's assuming you go Sorcerer 5/ Mindbender 1/ Incantatrix 10, so you'll actually qualify for it. You are using the version in Player's Guide to Faerun that gets metamagic feats at 1, 4, 7, and 10, and not the 3.0 version in Magic of Faerun, right?

[kayden87]

"cough" maybe :)

I didn't know there was a better than Mag version of Incantrix!

Eh.... 3.0 Incantrix looks better tho lmao

[Aspenor]

"cough" maybe :)

I didn't know there was a better than Mag version of Incantrix!

Eh.... 3.0 Incantrix looks better tho lmao

3.0 version is substantially worse. the 3.5 version is PGtF is superior by a vast margin.

[kayden87]

Oh I know 3.0 is worse

I meant looks as in the Incantrix picture lol...

Drain Item is nice tho, and the immunity to energy drains.

[Tael]

Oh wow, how do I explain this to my GM with out him thinking its broken though lol. Thats my Number one trouble... DMs > D&D Bosses

There is your problem. This build is ridiculously overpowered and I highly recommend not playing it in anything but an extremely high optimization group. (Read: Tier 1-2 builds all around)

Trust me, this won't be fun for anyone.

[kayden87]

well, we have a second spell caster and a cleric in our party thats going to do the same thing lol

Our DM might soften things up too, he may put a cap on the dice for wings, even still increasing its level will still bring the dice value way up do to Incantrix abilities

our red wizard is gunna max,empow, twin, repeat fireballs, and im doin the wings, and our cleric is gunna do the Flamestrikes with meta magic feats. either way nothing is going to live.

[Aspenor]

lol@fireballs

so, when you come up against an enemy with fire immunity that spams spells that actually matter, what then?

[kayden87]

well hes an archmage so he will choose sonic balls i guess

edit: hes a wizard/red wizard of thay/archmage

Dont know what lvls hes taking what tho.

[Aspenor]

nevermind, I misread your post.

Straight damage dealing is not a well-supported archetype for spellcasters. Wings of Flurry is only good because of the status effect it inflicts, not the damage.

Worry less about damage, worry more about things that matter: actions and status effects.

[kayden87]

yea but the.dmg is still good.

unresistable since its force.