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gregunderscorem
2011-03-02, 11:17 AM
So I'm whipping up the obligatory volcanic dungeon and I figured I might ask the playground for a little help with staffing the place. What are some great Magma or Fire themed creatures you've used in the past? I've already settled on the final boss: a pyroclastic dragon erupting from the magma pits, but any help with the minions would be appreciated.

Notes:

The place is hot, so anything there should be resistant or immune to fire damage.
The party is at 12th level, but there are 7 of them (yes its a big party and no it's not easy) and so far they've proven themselves really capable, so feel free to let loose with more powerful creatures.

Desril
2011-03-02, 11:20 AM
Fire Elementals, maybe magma elementals, and of course a Red or Pyroclastic Dragon

FMArthur
2011-03-02, 11:20 AM
I'm sure you could do something absolutely insane with Rylkar, which are gigantic rats that rapidly breed through exposure to fire. Monster Manual V.

Jair Barik
2011-03-02, 11:28 AM
MM2 had fire bats if I remember correctly (or was that fiend folio?)
If you don't mind people comparing the dungeon to LoZ throw a load of them at the party en mass.

Also there are several different types of flaming ooze scattered throughout the books. Nothing like having the lava itself jump up and try engulfing the PC's (I believe these are in both MM3 and Sandstorm)

GodGoblin
2011-03-02, 11:31 AM
AZERS! These guys are awesome. Bronze bodied, fire haired Dwarves! Whats not to like!?

Kuzimu
2011-03-02, 11:33 AM
I'd personally suggest a the Elemental Weirds. Just change to be fire instead of ice. Can't remember the source!

Frog Dragon
2011-03-02, 11:39 AM
The Ice weird is in Frostburn. There's air, fire, earth and water weirds in MM 2.

Do note that they all cast as level 18 sorcs with extra domain access, so even being stuck to their pools, they are more powerful than Frostburn indicates (CR 15), and the MMII elemental weirds are criminally under-CR:d.

Callista
2011-03-02, 11:42 AM
Fire? Magma? Use that terrain! If the party is fighting a bunch of enemies in an empty room, it's one thing--if they're fighting a bunch of enemies on a rickety stone bridge above a river of lava, it's an entirely different thing.

Expect them to have energy resistance up; you can probably have the monsters bull-rush them into various fiery obstacles.

Oh, and: Lava-breathing sharks. Just because.

GodGoblin
2011-03-02, 11:46 AM
Oh, and: Lava-breathing sharks. Just because.

Half Fire elemental Bullete running around and diving out of lava pools? Yes.

Also Living Fireball spells and similar?

Tyndmyr
2011-03-02, 11:50 AM
I'm sure you could do something absolutely insane with Rylkar, which are gigantic rats that rapidly breed through exposure to fire. Monster Manual V.

There's also a mold in the SRD that does something similar. An interesting way to arrange colder areas in the dungeon if necessary, though you'll need some plausible barrier to prevent them from spreading everywhere. This also creates a nasty trap if the PCs break said barrier.

manyslayer
2011-03-02, 12:18 PM
Since most fire creatures are vulnerable to cold, do something to grant the BBEG cold immunity (Mantle of the Icy Soul from Frostburn permanently grants the Cold subtype). If the pyroclastic dragon has a screwed up family life you could add the half-dragon template for white or silver dragon.

Advanced summoning oozes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040905a&page=5) (MM3) are immune to fire and can bolster the forces of the big bad. Hide them in shallow lava pools and have them summon away. Heck, have them swimming through streams of lava throughout the dungeon harassing with summoned creatures whenever the PCs encounter something. Have them summon something fast when the PCs are first encountered to send word to the boss.

PretzelKing
2011-03-02, 12:32 PM
include a fortress of fire giants somehow!

gomipile
2011-03-02, 12:44 PM
Some living spells would be neat too. Living fireballs, living flaming spheres, and the like.

Telonius
2011-03-02, 12:44 PM
Magmins (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/magmin.htm). These nasty little critters have an ability that should at least alarm low-level melee combatants:


Melt Weapons (Ex)

Any metal weapon that strikes a magmin must succeed on a DC 12 Fortitude save or melt away into slag. The save DC is Constitution-based.

The DC's low, but still, it's just one bad roll away from disaster. They have a low CR, so feel free to send a horde against a bunch of level-12 players. The more enemies, the more chances they have of melting a blade.

Ursus the Grim
2011-03-02, 12:45 PM
I've always been partial to Thoqqua(s) from Core. CR is a bit low, but advancement and templates can fix that easily.

dextercorvia
2011-03-02, 12:49 PM
Living Spells have been mentioned. They are awesome. You can make them from status spells (status+fire), instead of just more fire (which the PC's should have some immunity/resistance to).

The problem is that they aren't themselves immune to fire. Since your BBEG is a Dragon, how about Half-Dragon Living Spells?

Jair Barik
2011-03-02, 12:49 PM
Also if your really set on melting them then place the ark of the covenant somewhere as a trap. If they don't look away then they are toast :smallamused:

Aergoth
2011-03-02, 12:59 PM
Those burning ghosts from either LM or HoH. Cinderspawn I think.

Land Outcast
2011-03-02, 01:05 PM
Take a frost worm, take out the frost, put in some flaming, change cold for fire and ice for lava. Should be fun.

Some efreeti couldn't hurt... visiting form the city of brass :D

randomhero00
2011-03-02, 01:17 PM
Not that you can by RAW but...awakened lava! The entire place has an intelligence, maybe a 3 or so, maybe 2, so it can't talk. But it senses threats by things that aren't hot enough, and it wants to protect its heat/energy source. So basically it gives you free reign to suddenly have lava flowing up and into a room for instance that they might be inhabiting.

Don't do it too often. I'd say, never let them figure it out until they get to the end. Basically use it in place of traps. That plus flaming oozes and a caster or two that keeps escaping, should be enough to make them think they're doing something odd they can't figure out.

Chen
2011-03-02, 01:25 PM
The DC's low, but still, it's just one bad roll away from disaster. They have a low CR, so feel free to send a horde against a bunch of level-12 players. The more enemies, the more chances they have of melting a blade.

Because destroying a PCs weapon is always fun, especially if they have no way of knowing its going to happen until it does.

stainboy
2011-03-02, 01:38 PM
In a place where the party can't survive without Resist Elements, there's nothing quite as funny as Dispel Magic traps.

If the dungeon is full of magma you gotta try to drop a PC in a pool of magma at least once. Use monsters with Telekinesis. Have a Half-Elemental Bonespear (Fiend Folio) on an island of rock harpoon the PCs and reel them in. Have monsters or traps use Passwall, Phase Door, or Stone Shape to punch holes in walls and release lava flows.

Telonius
2011-03-02, 01:47 PM
Because destroying a PCs weapon is always fun, especially if they have no way of knowing its going to happen until it does.

Absolutely. There's a reason those "Knowledge: X" skills exist. If they don't put any ranks in them, it's their own funeral.

Toliudar
2011-03-02, 02:05 PM
Swarms of thoqqua! Entire passages that get filled with the bouncing fireplace pokers! What's not to love?

randomhero00
2011-03-02, 02:10 PM
Absolutely. There's a reason those "Knowledge: X" skills exist. If they don't put any ranks in them, it's their own funeral.

Shrug, I kind of agree and disagree. There's got to be some bonus to playing an unarmed/natural strike character. If I did do that tho (destroy valuable weapons) I'd make it up to them by the boss.

Cyrion
2011-03-02, 02:27 PM
Since the party is going to bulk up on fire resistance, throw in something with another energy type available. Have an ice devil (they're immune to fire) visting- it's an emmisary of some sort setting up a fiendish plot that might be a good adventure seed for the next arc- with a few flunkies of some sort. At CR 13, a party that size should be able to dispose of it with a bit of effort depending on what you've given it as minions. It's cone of cold could catch the party by surprise and make them scramble a bit.

randomhero00
2011-03-02, 02:37 PM
Since the party is going to bulk up on fire resistance, throw in something with another energy type available. Have an ice devil (they're immune to fire) visting- it's an emmisary of some sort setting up a fiendish plot that might be a good adventure seed for the next arc- with a few flunkies of some sort. At CR 13, a party that size should be able to dispose of it with a bit of effort depending on what you've given it as minions. It's cone of cold could catch the party by surprise and make them scramble a bit.

That doesn't seem fair when you're obviously going into a fire dungeon.

Cyrion
2011-03-02, 03:05 PM
That doesn't seem fair when you're obviously going into a fire dungeon.

For a 12th level party? I think it's entirely fair to throw an odd source of energy at them once in a while. The key to success here will be balancing the minions. You want just enough that the party has to spend some action economy on something other than blowing away the ice devil in round 1, but not so many that it gets off an excessive number of cold spells.

And he did say he wanted to melt the party... :smallamused:

randomhero00
2011-03-02, 03:08 PM
For a 12th level party? I think it's entirely fair to throw an odd source of energy at them once in a while. The key to success here will be balancing the minions. You want just enough that the party has to spend some action economy on something other than blowing away the ice devil in round 1, but not so many that it gets off an excessive number of cold spells.

And he did say he wanted to melt the party... :smallamused:

Yeah, melt not freeze.

Cyrion
2011-03-02, 03:12 PM
Yeah, melt not freeze.

And what happens to frozen things sitting in a volcano?

drakir_nosslin
2011-03-02, 03:13 PM
A community of Salamanders could also be fun, especially since you get to give them class levels then :smallbiggrin:
Swordsage Salamanders with Desert Wind and Shadow Hand, teleporting snakes that burn, and then burn a little more.
Team it up with a dispelling caster.

Thrawn183
2011-03-02, 03:13 PM
Well, a quick search of the srd for monster with the fire subtype yielded:
- Azer
- Brass Dragon
- Fire Elemental
- Efreeti Genie
- Fire Giant
- Gold Dragon
- Hell Hound
- Magmin
- Fire/Magma/Steam Mephits
- Pyrohydra
- Rast
- Red Dragon
- Salamander
- Thoqqua
A search for the earth subtype yielded:
- Blue Dragon
- Copper Dragon
- Earth Elemental
- Gargoyle
- Stone Giant
- Earth/Salt Mephits
- Xorn

Don't forget that water/cold themed enemies could be attempting to make some kind of an assault on the dungeon. Make for some three way fighting, or maybe a neutral third party.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-03-02, 03:16 PM
Obsidian Oozes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20031123a) are downright mean. Oozes only get +1 CR per +4 HD and fractions round down, but a size increase would be +1 CR. I'd stat them out at 18 HD Huge (CR 11), 16 HD Large (CR 10), and as-printed (CR 9), and use three to five per encounter for seven PCs but never more than one huge ooze per group. I think the 'Skewer' special attack on its stat block should actually be changed to 'Sharp Spines' based on its ability descriptions. These things will completely destroy anything that's not outright immune to fire.

Forum Explorer
2011-03-02, 03:18 PM
some half dragon monsterous spiders who spin webs of pure magma!

Well just a bunch of half-dragons of various creatures, and kobolds who make lava traps all over the place. Mabey even a hatchling or two.

manyslayer
2011-03-02, 03:31 PM
That doesn't seem fair when you're obviously going into a fire dungeon.

I disagree. If I have an obvious energy that will be prevalent around me (fire) and one of my main attacks is the same kind, I expect someone coming after me is going to be prepared for it. So I will prepare alternatives so that a simple immunity to fire won't negate most of my abilities/defenses.

Doing otherwise for an intelligent foe just makes it less believable.

dextercorvia
2011-03-02, 03:40 PM
Don't forget to make your Living Spells Searing.

starwoof
2011-03-02, 03:53 PM
Have them fight an iron golem in a room full of glyphs of warding tied to fireball spells. For added lols, throw in some red dragon shamans or some spellcasters throwing fire spells.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-03-02, 04:35 PM
Living Spells tend to be extremely weak relative to their CR. If you use more than one spell it's almost guaranteed to never hit a character who doesn't completely dump AC.

I'd put a few permanent Wall of Dispel Magic or (Greater) Dispelling Screen effects in choice locations. A smart dragon would want to remove any intruders' spell protections prior to engaging them.

If you're going to use an Iron Golem, be sure to put multiple Wall of Fire + Permanency effects in its room. A 20 ft. wide hallway with Wall of Fire cast against both walls would give it within-ten-feet of both spells if it's in the middle of the hallway.

Half-Dragon has been mentioned a few times, but don't forget about Half-Elemental in Manual of the Planes. Half-Dragon Trolls and Half-Elemental Nagas would be pretty brutal. Half-Dragon Blackscale Lizardfolk (MM3) Barbarians and Half-Elemental Gauth Beholders (advanced) would be interesting.

FMArthur
2011-03-02, 04:48 PM
Make sure that you form a proper believable ecosystem as well. Nothing ruins immersion like the realization that all creatures in a particular biome are physically incapable of doing harm to one another. :smallwink:

Callista
2011-03-02, 05:13 PM
Living Spells tend to be extremely weak relative to their CR. If you use more than one spell it's almost guaranteed to never hit a character who doesn't completely dump AC.So adjust their CR. It's not like you have to follow the recommended guidelines. Sometimes, if you do, it's a bad thing. Just depends on the party, their abilities, and the specific monster and the specific environment.

Living Fireballs are still cool.

starwoof
2011-03-02, 05:51 PM
If you're going to use an Iron Golem, be sure to put multiple Wall of Fire + Permanency effects in its room. A 20 ft. wide hallway with Wall of Fire cast against both walls would give it within-ten-feet of both spells if it's in the middle of the hallway.

Right! Wall of Fire! That spell was right at the edge of my thoughts the whole time.

GodGoblin
2011-03-02, 05:53 PM
Ooooh just flicked through the MM5 and saw the Magmacore Golem. Its just so damn awesome. Well worth looking into :smallsmile:

mikau013
2011-03-03, 12:13 PM
A tribe of Fire gnomes (planar handbook!) who worship fire elementals.
Some with a small fire elemental familiar.

And well they are gnomes, let them do all kinds of crazy stuff, like cheering if they are used as footballs by a fire elemental