Help!: I didn't know that druids could be spontaneous casters in 3.5.

[fencepainter]

Hi. This is my first post, so I'm sorry if I'm not doing this according to the protocols. I've got a new DM who passes out which class you'll play with cards at random. Fair enough, I'm getting to play something I've never played before, a druid. Now, I've seen druids played many times before, but I haven't dabbled with them much myself. The other oddity here is that the DM insists that the Druid follow the variant rule of druids being spontaneous casters: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm. OK, its a game and I'm game but I don't know what I should be thinking about in terms of spell selection. We're about to embark on a 1-20 campaign (which almost never succeeds) and I want to plan out what spells to take, at least with some generality. I don't get to switch out many, so my choices have to be solid. Help.

[Turk]

Sounds like some incredibly odd rules, but if the players enjoy it who am I to judge?

The main factor in choosing your spells though is going to come down to a few things. What source books do you have available? Can you use spell compendium or just core? Who else is in your group? I wouldn't worry about healing spells as much if you had a Cleric in the group, or certain buffs if your sorcerer or wizard already has them. Is this campaign focused mostly on dungeon crawling, RP, straight combat, or trying to mesh all three?

[Force]

This Druid Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.0) is a good start.

Really, what spells you what is determined by what you are planning on focusing on. Are you going to primarily be a spellcaster? If so, are you blasting, battlefield controlling, buffing, etc? Are you going to rely on animal shape and your companion to get in your foes' faces?

Biggest pitfall you can avoid is becoming a healbot. Take Lesser Vigor and maybe later Mass Lesser Vigor, at most, and call it a day. Get someone else to craft wands of Cure Light Wounds for healing-- don't blow spells known and slots on healing spells.

[fencepainter]

This Druid Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.0) is a good start.

Really, what spells you what is determined by what you are planning on focusing on. Are you going to primarily be a spellcaster? If so, are you blasting, battlefield controlling, buffing, etc? Are you going to rely on animal shape and your companion to get in your foes' faces?

Biggest pitfall you can avoid is becoming a healbot. Take Lesser Vigor and maybe later Mass Lesser Vigor, at most, and call it a day. Get someone else to craft wands of Cure Light Wounds for healing-- don't blow spells known and slots on healing spells.

Thanks. I've been looking at the various Druid Handbooks and they've been helpful. They just tend to recommend good spells from which to choose when the druid can make changes every day. They don't seem all that oriented toward spontaneous casters.

I think I'd focus primarily on buffing my animal companion and summons, and battlefield control, then throw in some utility, and with blasting being there but not dominant among the spells. I'll spend a lot of time in wild shape, when I can, likely in a "keep out of the way" form or BEARed for battle. I appreciate the advice about healing, which I'm now less inclined to do.


Sounds like some incredibly odd rules, but if the players enjoy it who am I to judge?

The main factor in choosing your spells though is going to come down to a few things. What source books do you have available? Can you use spell compendium or just core? Who else is in your group? I wouldn't worry about healing spells as much if you had a Cleric in the group, or certain buffs if your sorcerer or wizard already has them. Is this campaign focused mostly on dungeon crawling, RP, straight combat, or trying to mesh all three?

The rules are a bit weird. He's banned a bunch of spells--mostly from the wiz/sorc list as well. I actually don't mind the card dealing thing too much. I think it is stretching us a bit. I guess it's a Tier 1.5 game, as he's nerfed some of the classes, but not too much. All the WoTC products are available and he's open to homebrew/3rd party content subject to review. The other characters in the group are: Sorcerer, Barbarian, Cleric, Rogue--races unknown yet. There will be, if history is any judge, a combination of settings: dungeon crawl, role-playing, combat, puzzle solving, in a variety of climates and it will likely involve some themed path throughout the entire campaign.

[faceroll]

A few months ago there was a thread on someone playing a spontaneous casting druid. You could try searching for that. There was some pretty good spell recommendations there.

[HughtheHand]

Favored souls are spontaneous divine casters, though I think they use the cleric spell list, not the druid one. Still, it's a place to start looking.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152070

Or this from NWN2, to get the battle spells down (though they work a bit differently in the game). http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/939027-neverwinter-nights-2-mask-of-the-betrayer/faqs/50501

[nedz]

One option you might want to consider is the Spontaneous Healer Feat. This will give you limited emergency healing without having to spend a spell known.
Otherwise just take the Cure Minor cantrip to start with, this will allow you to stop someone bleeding to death.
Lesser Vigor and Mass Lesser Vigor are probably worth having, though at some point (if you, and the campaign, live long enough) you'll be able to Summon Unicorns. These can do Healing and Neutralise Poison, and you always get SNA.
Another option is to try and get into a PrC which offers you a domain. This is a solid way to get more spells known.

[begooler]

If you are going to be using any blasting spells that do energy damage I would take the energy substitution feat... it would increase the likelihood that one of your limited spells known does the right type of damage for the situation. (Note: casting time for metamagics is increased to a full round for you.)

[fencepainter]

If you are going to be using any blasting spells that do energy damage I would take the energy substitution feat... it would increase the likelihood that one of your limited spells known does the right type of damage for the situation. (Note: casting time for metamagics is increased to a full round for you.)

An excellent idea. I noticed that druids get a lot of fire (not sure why, as fire is not smokey's friend) and cold spells.


One option you might want to consider is the Spontaneous Healer Feat. This will give you limited emergency healing without having to spend a spell known. That's a GREAT idea. Now, I have to think about WHEN to take that as there are many other great feats to consider, especially because I want to focus on summoning and buffing.

@HughtheHand: thanks. I'll check out those lists.

@faceroll: great. I'll poke around.

In the mean time, I'll continue to try to figure out which of the 4th level blast spells I should take and when. The limited choices last for so long, it seems. Even if I can identify good spells, in so many cases I have to wait until the teens to get them in.

[Last Laugh]

One option you might want to consider is the Spontaneous Healer Feat. This will give you limited emergency healing without having to spend a spell known.
Otherwise just take the Cure Minor cantrip to start with, this will allow you to stop someone bleeding to death.
Lesser Vigor and Mass Lesser Vigor are probably worth having, though at some point (if you, and the campaign, live long enough) you'll be able to Summon Unicorns. These can do Healing and Neutralise Poison, and you always get SNA.
Another option is to try and get into a PrC which offers you a domain. This is a solid way to get more spells known.


A cleric may add his two domain spells to his list of spells known, while
a druid may add the appropriate summon nature’s ally spell to her
list of spells known.

Sadly druids only gain access to Summon Nature's Ally, and not domains. You do get to select domain spells to add to spells know (Source?)

[begooler]

There is a 'house rule' mentioned in UA on pg 68 that allows druids to choose one domain (Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Sun, Water.) They get the spells and the domain power. A druid who takes the sun domain gets one turn undead attempt per day.

You could if you were using this rule, take the sun domain, getting more spells, and then also qualify for Radiant Servant of Pelor which will also grant you another domain and therefore more spells known down the line. Taking levels in that prc would really put a damper on your other druid abilities though, since it wouldn't advance them.
There are more prestige classes that grant extra domains.

Edit:In Complete Divine on pg 20, it outlines the rules for spontaneous non-cleric casters who gain extra domains through a PRC. If you have a limited number of spells known, you have to count any of the domain spells you want to learn against that limit. So, suggestions to take a PRC to add domains won't help you with the number of spells known.

[fencepainter]

Are there specific spells I should absolutely not miss taking? Are there spells that I should take but take later? Are there spells I should take, but then trade out for some others?

For instance, I know that Entangle is a great spell and that I should probably take it right away at first level. It's probably a spell I'll keep throughout the 20 levels. It's just such a good spell. What I want to know is what other spells people think I should take and in what order and perhaps why.

Maybe I'll take a stab at what I think is good and others can comment. I'll come back soon with a list.

[jguy]

It all really depends on your characters personality and what you want to do as a player. I have a cleric/sorcerer gestalt character who is level 1 right now and he is very vain, full of himself, out going, and pretty. For my sorcerer side I picked Enlarge person as a "Hey! Look at me and fear!" spell and my other is Endure Elements. Why? Because he will be damned if he is ever uncomfortable due to weather and make him wear bulky, unsightly clothes.

[ShriekingDrake]

Here's a quick list based on what you said your strategy might be. Things divided by a slash are up to you (that is, I saw potential for both but you'd have to make a choice)

0 Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Dawn, Detect Magic, Guidance, Light, Mending, Read Magic, Resistance
1 Aspect of the Wolf, Entangle, Healthful Rest, Impeding Stones, Shillelagh/Winged Watcher
2 Blinding Spittle, Bone Talisman, Splinterbolt, Kelpstrand, Snake's Swiftness--Mass
3 Energy Vortex, Poison, Spiritjaws, Venomfire
4 Greater Luminous Armor, Sheltered Vitality, Superior Magic Fang, Vortex of Teeth
5 Animal Growth, Control Winds, Owl's Insight, Phantom Stag/Plant Body
6 Bite of the Werebear, Energy Immunity, Superior Resistance
7 Heal, Master Earth, Control Weather/Rain of Roses/Slime Wave
8 Bombardment, Frostfell, Red Tide/Unearthly Beauty
9 Nature's Avatar, Shapechange, Summon Elemental Monolith/Undermaster

[huttj509]

Entangle you might want to ask the DM what sort of locations the campaign will be. If it's primarily urban settings, less useful. Also might want to discuss what sorts of areas are considered having enough vegitation. Dungeon tunnel, are there roots in the walls? Moss?

Normally as a druid if you discover by setting or limitations it's not useful but once in a blue moon, you can just memorize somethign else tomorow.

[Quietus]

It all really depends on your characters personality and what you want to do as a player. I have a cleric/sorcerer gestalt character who is level 1 right now and he is very vain, full of himself, out going, and pretty. For my sorcerer side I picked Enlarge person as a "Hey! Look at me and fear!" spell and my other is Endure Elements. Why? Because he will be damned if he is ever uncomfortable due to weather and make him wear bulky, unsightly clothes.

What, precisely, is this sorcerer going to do in a combat? Make himself a big unarmed low HP target? I'm sorry, I'm all for taking flavor abilities, but this seems like you're going to have a crippled character for no good reason.

[/off topic]

[Ungvar]

One option you might want to consider is the Spontaneous Healer Feat. This will give you limited emergency healing without having to spend a spell known.

I thought one of the prereqs of that feat was the ability to cast cure wounds spells. If so, then unless this spontaneous druid has chosen a cure wounds spell as a spell known, he can't cast it spontaneously.

Besides, given the relative dearth of feats that a druid gets, even taking into account that this druid will be a spontaneous caster w/ limited spells known, I'd say it's probably better just to go the vigor line of spells.

Aside from that, you really want to look into Girallon's Blessing (SpC-grants two extra limbs w/ claw attacks) and Evard's Menacing Tentacles (PHBII-grants two extra tentacles w/ reach attacks), for when you do have to get your hands/paws/talons/whatever dirty in melee. And depending on your DM, your animal companion might be able to benefit from those spells via shared spells.

[ShriekingDrake]

One of the problems you have, that druids are unaccustomed to having, is that you are very limited in the spells you can choose AND you have to wait quite a bit of time to get a spell that you deem as critical. For instance, you have to wait until 17th level to get the third 6th level spell. You're already hampered because you only get three 6th level spells--and you, by my reckoning, can't even take antilife shell, which is a great spell. As a spontaneous caster, you'll have to think VERY carefully about which spells you take when. And which spells you'll opt out. I've already listed for you the spells I think are your best bets. I'm sure there are other good choice and even better choices depending upon the campaign. I would definitely recommend mapping out which spells you'll take when and which spells you'll trade out. Because your spell selection is so limited, you can't just take a spell because it is good, you have to select it because it fills a well-rounded array of spells.

[Hazzardevil]

If you want you could take blighter from complete divine, this gets you 9th level spells at level 14,

Ignore that, I only just realised you wanted to be spontaneus.
If you want more options in combat I reccomend taking a level of sacred exorcist for turn undead then take a level of warlock and 10 levels of eldritch diciple, that gives you a lot more options including an infinite amount of weak blasting and invocations.

[fencepainter]

Ignore that, I only just realised you wanted to be spontaneus.

Thanks all. Just to be clear. I didn't ask to be spontaneous; it was thrust upon me.

[The Cat Goddess]

Thanks all. Just to be clear. I didn't ask to be spontaneous; it was thrust upon me.

Wait...

You were spontaneously thrust upon? :smalleek:

Or is that thrust upon spontaneously? :smallconfused:

[Human Paragon 3]

In core, Druid shines in battlefield control. Spike Stones, Sleet Storm, and Ice Storm are some of the best battlefield control spells in the game, and Entangle rarely goes wrong at low levels.

[AmberVael]

I've personally made some spontaneous druids in my time (and numerous spontaneous clerics and other divine casters), and generally prefer the spontaneous side of magic, so let me make a few general tips, and then get more detailed.

1) Variety
As a spontaneous caster, you usually cannot afford to have multiple similar spells. In order to maximize your spontaneous nature, you need to be able to draw on as wide a variety of spells as possible. Therefore, if you have one blasting spell? Don't take another unless it significantly differs in some way (Cover an esoteric damage type, area, single target blasting, and SR: No with about two or three, but that's it. If you were a dedicated blaster, you'd go with further).
What you have to count on is that among your wider variety, you'll be able to find one that corresponds well with the situation. If you specialize too much, you run the risk of ineffectiveness.
Therefore, swap out redundant spells when you want a higher level or more effective version, and so on.

2) Choose broad spells
Each spell known is precious to you. Therefore, the more significant uses a single spell has, the more valuable it becomes. While the Druid doesn't have as many of these, those that you can find, you should take.
Undermaster is probably the best example of this that I can think of on the Druid list.

3) Choose enduring spells
Again, spells known are precious- therefore, if a spell becomes ineffective due to poor scaling, it can become a waste of resources and a liability. You're given some leeway due to the ability to swap out spells, but you have to keep in mind that swapping is a limited resource. Minimize your need for this by choosing spells that are good from level 1 to 20.
This further reinforces your capability for variety and endurance through the day- if you can still get good utility out of lower level spells at higher levels, then you have more resources to rely on.


Now, personally my spell lists tend to have a lot of quirks to them, so I can't recommend everything my characters would take, but here are some of my favorite druid spells.

-Snake's Swiftness, Mass (Spell Compendium)
Not quite as handy as Haste, but if you have a larger party (or a large number of summons), this spell can really be quite mean. Save it for the right moment, and it'll pay off, even if its only a level 2 spell.

-Blizzard (Frostburn)
This spell is for when you just want to end all combat. Zero visibility. No ranged attacks. Impeded movement. Friggin' HUGE area (100ft radius PER LEVEL). No save (well, against the relevant parts).
Plus, it has the utility being able to summon a Blizzard obviously has. Shuts stuff down, freezes things, blahdy blah. Ending combat is its most obvious and awesome use, however, and it does it wonderfully.
Of course, if your party is properly prepared for it, it might just turn into combat winner. Be a little creative and you can probably think of some ways to use it that enemies won't be prepared for.

-Omen of Peril (Spell Compendium)
It's like a first level Augury. It's a wee bit more limited, but this thing can be handy. And it is always going to be handy, that's the beauty of it. At lower levels, it can be the difference between TPK and party domination- and higher levels? Other divinations may outstrip it in capability, but it's first level. You can use it every other second in comparison (especially given its one round casting time). Great spell. Definitely get it on your list once you have slots to spare for it.

-Produce Flames (PHB)
One of the few poorly scaling blasting spells worth taking anyway. Ranged touch attack fire damage with 1/min duration? At low levels, this thing can really help you out, giving you an attack much more likely to hit on every single round (and with the duration, you make more use of your lower number of spells per day). Even if you don't trade it out at later levels, the longer duration can allow you to use it for utility purposes- torch, pipe lighter, etc etc. And for druids, it's just a level 1 spell, so it might not even be all that bad to keep around.

[Ungvar]

The problem w/ produce flame is that w/ each attack, the duration of the spell is reduced by one minute, and the spell ends if the duration is reduced to zero or less. As worded, it's unclear whether that means only thrown flame attacks, or both the thrown and melee attacks reduce the duration. Check w/ the DM for a ruling on this. If both attack forms reduce duration, then I wouldn't spend a spells-known slot on it.

[golem1972]

I went with the summoning / animal companion route myself. Augment, Imbued Summoning, and Ashbound.

Enrage Animal seemed to be a pretty good pick for imbue untill you can get venomfire or Enlarge animal.
An Enlarged, Raging, Venomfired Fleshraker Companion with a necklace of natural attacks and a weapon crystal is just plain mean.

[Hazzardevil]

Thanks all. Just to be clear. I didn't ask to be spontaneous; it was thrust upon me.

Blighter is effective then. midn you it changes the flavour a lot and it can go badly if you don't have access to plants to kill.

Basically you lose your druid powers and then gain slight variation on teh abilities, so instead of getting wildshape you get undead which is basically the same exept the skeleton template is applied,

you also get a fire ability that deals 5d6 damage reflex halves with teh Dc being, 10+blighter level+wis mod.

Contagious touch as a melee attack which turns into a 20 ft plague which doesn't require an attack.

Having described this I am now tempted to make my own.

[Jayabalard]

You might be some good info in the spirit shaman handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19865442/The_Spirit_Shaman_Handbook); Spirit shamans are spontaneous divine casters that pick spells off of the druid spell list. If you use this as a resource, keep in mind that spirit shaman lack wildshape/shapechange/animal companion, so the optimal spells for them don't include things that buff those.

[begooler]

What are the other casters in the party? You may not want to waste spells known on spells that duplicate what the other PCs can do.

[fencepainter]

What are the other casters in the party? You may not want to waste spells known on spells that duplicate what the other PCs can do.

Rats. I'm so behind in thanking people and commenting. Anyway, I'll pick up here for now.

The other casters are a spontaneous cleric and a sorcerer. We also have a rogue and a barbarian.

[absolmorph]

What, precisely, is this sorcerer going to do in a combat? Make himself a big unarmed low HP target? I'm sorry, I'm all for taking flavor abilities, but this seems like you're going to have a crippled character for no good reason.

[/off topic]
He'll be a cleric. Duh.

[begooler]

If you also have a cleric, definitely don't spend you spells known on cures. Do take the vigor spells, but I would replace the lowest level version of it each time you are allowed to replaced a spell.
You may want to suggest to your cleric that he/she consider the ACF in Dungeonscape that allows you to give up one of your domain special abilities for the ability to spontaneously cast restoration spells, since that would free up the cleric's spell list.
Then I would also coordinate with the other two casters on overlapping spell selection. Only one of you needs resistance, if at all. Does the party want dispel magic? Who will be the one to take it?

I would focus on some of the buffing spells that will sync with your wild shape and also affect your animal companion. Avoid spells that you will soon replace with a better version of the spell (since you can only replace so many spells) or will be duplicated by a class feature a few levels later.

For example, you are choosing a new level 1 spell...
Aspect of the Wolf? Great when you can't wild shape, but you're probably not going to use it once you get wild shape.
Ram's might? While it's only a small bonus to strength, you might still choose it over Aspect of the Wolf because you can continue to benefit from it when you wild shape later. Maybe though, you choose not to pick it because it will later be overshadowed by Bull's Strength.
Babau's Slime? I'm not saying this is the best spell in the world, but I might choose this one, because it is beneficial at level one (assuming you're hardy enough to get into melee) and continues to be beneficial when you are able to wild shape, so long as you have natural spell. It would also affect your animal companion.

[nedz]

My first post was simply suggestions of things you should consider.

Cure Minor Wounds and 4 Ranks of Knowledge(Religion) would qualify you for Spontaneous Healer. This could not be done before 6th level without spending further feats, or dipping another class, due to the skill being cross class. Since you should probably be taking Natural Spell as your 6th level Feat, and you will be able to summon Unicorns before 9th level this might not be the best option.
Unless you were going to multiclass anyway, or Natural Spell is banned ?

Expanding your spell list via Domain granting PrCs could be done by:
Dip 1 level of Sacred Exorcist for Turn Undead.
Dip into the PrC to obtain the domain.
Take the Spontaneous Domain Feat to be able to cast spells from that domain spontaneously.
Getting into Sacred Exorcist would be quite hard though, due to the spell requirement. It is possible though, and would give you great flexibility, with the right domain.

Spontaneous Druid does seem to be designed with summoning in mind, since at odd levels (beyond 1st) you can only use Summon Nature's Ally for your highest level spells. So finding some way of swapping this spell slot out is a very worthwhile exercise. This is why I suggested the above options.

Metamagic is another alternative for using these spell slots.

Most of the feats for enhancing summoning have Spell Focus(Conjuration) as a pre-requisite. This is almost a feat tax for you though since Druids get very few Conjurations: other than SNA, for which it is useless.

[begooler]

I like the Spontaneous Healer idea... though as Nedz mentions, summoning a Unicorn is just as effective.

The Spontaneous Domains route won't work according to what I'm reading. (I would love to be corrected, because it would be a great thing to be able to do.)
Here's why:
1. In Complete Divine, mechanics are laid out for non clerics who have domains added to their spell list through a prc. If the caster is a spontaneous caster with a limited number of spells known, then choosing one of those domain spells counts against their number of spells known. Therefore, this can't be used as a sneaky ways to get more spells known than intended.
2. The text of Spontaneous Domain feat requires that you prepare your spells.

[nedz]

The Spontaneous Domains route won't work according to what I'm reading. (I would love to be corrected, because it would be a great thing to be able to do.)
Here's why:
1. In Complete Divine, mechanics are laid out for non clerics who have domains added to their spell list through a prc. If the caster is a spontaneous caster with a limited number of spells known, then choosing one of those domain spells counts against their number of spells known. Therefore, this can't be used as a sneaky ways to get more spells known than intended.
2. The text of Spontaneous Domain feat requires that you prepare your spells.
It looks like you're right, and I thought the tricky part was getting the Turn Undead.:smallsigh:
Shame there isn't a divine version of Arcane Preparation.

Ed:

I like the Spontaneous Healer idea... though as Nedz mentions, summoning a Unicorn is just as effective.
1 or 1d3, or 1d4+1 Unicorns depending upon your level.

[Ungvar]

Again, I would caution OP to check w/ the DM first if Spontaneous Healer is a route they want to go. Personally, if Cure Minor Wounds is the only Cure Wounds spell on her spells known list, then I would rule that's the only one she can spontaneously cast.

True, that would mean the feat is worthless, but I don't think the feat was designed w/ fully spontaneous divine casters in mind, and otherwise it would be a sneaky way to add a bunch of spells to your spells known list for the cost of one feat.

Your DM might allow this, but I'd say check first.

[Kuma Kode]

Summoning is a great focus for druids because of how tough their summoned creatures can be, and because the summoned creatures will be soaking damage that your party would otherwise be taking. Less damage taken = less healing needed.

Spontaneous Healer is nice. One feat and the entire cure line is automatically added to your list when you can cast them.

Ashbound (Eberron Campaign Setting) and Greenbound (Lost Empires of Faerun) are great feats for a summoner, but don't expect your DM to OK greenbound. It's... pretty powerful, and it seems to be rather commonly believed that it was meant to have some kind of spell level adjustment like metamagic.

EDIT: I really don't think a feat giving access to the cure line for someone who could already cast them anyway isn't that sneaky. Especially considering they are typically a waste of an action due to the craptastic healed damage/typical monster's dealt damage ratio.

[huttj509]

EDIT: I really don't think a feat giving access to the cure line for someone who could already cast them anyway isn't that sneaky. Especially considering they are typically a waste of an action due to the craptastic healed damage/typical monster's dealt damage ratio.

I think the main argument for spontaneous curing being beneficial is basically:

Normally, you don't want to heal in combat, save it for afterwards. Sometimes? Sometimes it can be absolutely the right move to do. In that situation, it's much better to be able to drop a spell for what you need than to guess at keeping one prepared just in case.

[nedz]

I think the main argument for spontaneous curing being beneficial is basically:

Normally, you don't want to heal in combat, save it for afterwards. Sometimes? Sometimes it can be absolutely the right move to do. In that situation, it's much better to be able to drop a spell for what you need than to guess at keeping one prepared just in case.

Basically yes. Though the only cure spells you should actually take for this are Cure Moderate and, later, Heal. CMW is the lowest level cure which is pretty much garanteed to get someone on their feet so that they get a chance to make saves, run away or at least act. CLW doesn't garantee this.

Spontaneous Healer is not a strong feat since its only Wis mod times per day, but it does free up spell slots. It has an added advantage for any kind of Druid though since it allows you to do this "as a cleric": this means that you get the cure spells, when accessed by this method, a level lower.

[ShriekingDrake]

I think she's got a cleric in her party who can do the spontaneous healing. I wouldn't focus on that if your cleric is willing to do some healing. I had recommended Healthful Rest, because it's a first level spell that will be good throughout your 20 levels. It's a minor boost that can make a lot of difference, especially if any of your party end up with any kind of fast healing.

Myself, I think you're smart to focus on buffing your summons and animal companion and lumping in some battlefield control, utility, and the occasional blast. That's a well balanced spontaneous druid. And, you can definitely think of your summons as utility as well as battle. They can get you out of all sorts of situations.

[Ungvar]

EDIT: I really don't think a feat giving access to the cure line for someone who could already cast them anyway isn't that sneaky. Especially considering they are typically a waste of an action due to the craptastic healed damage/typical monster's dealt damage ratio.

But as a spontaneous caster, if you don't take the cure spells as spells known, then you CAN'T cast them anyway. But you're right that it certainly isn't powergaming.

In fact, given that OP wants to buff her AC, but apparently doesn't want to melee as much, I think Companion Spellbond from PHBII is a great feat. Lets you share spells w/ your AC out to 30 feet, instead of 5, and you can change touch range spells to short range if it only targets your AC.

[jguy]

What, precisely, is this sorcerer going to do in a combat? Make himself a big unarmed low HP target? I'm sorry, I'm all for taking flavor abilities, but this seems like you're going to have a crippled character for no good reason.

[/off topic]

He is a battle sorcerer who rolled really good on Strength, Dex, and Con and the other side is cloister cleric. So 3/4 Bab, d8 Hit-die and is getting knowledge devotion too. Makes a decent second line fighter. This is a E6 game too if I didn't mention it before.

[ShriekingDrake]

For example, you are choosing a new level 1 spell...
Aspect of the Wolf? Great when you can't wild shape, but you're probably not going to use it once you get wild shape.
Ram's might? While it's only a small bonus to strength, you might still choose it over Aspect of the Wolf because you can continue to benefit from it when you wild shape later. Maybe though, you choose not to pick it because it will later be overshadowed by Bull's Strength.
Babau's Slime? I'm not saying this is the best spell in the world, but I might choose this one, because it is beneficial at level one (assuming you're hardy enough to get into melee) and continues to be beneficial when you are able to wild shape, so long as you have natural spell. It would also affect your animal companion.

While I agree with this general vector, what makes Aspect of the Wolf a solid spell, is that it is a great way to bring your Animal Companion into places it might not normally be allowed or fit. It has an effective life-span of all 20 levels. if used for this purpose.

[isotunknown]

I would focus on, as I think you're already leaning, on buffing your summons and utility. You want spells that will be useful as often as possible, because you get so few of them. You want spells that you can cast over and over again. So a few blast spells won't be bad, but don't take many, I'd say.

[fencepainter]

I think I'm going to steer away from the spontaneous healing route, as we have a cleric. I may take low level vigor spells, however.

I can now see why this is burden. While it is great to be able to cast all the spells at my disposal at a whim, it is difficult to cull down to just a few spells. I can see myself saying, "if only I'd picked something different" or something like that a lot.

I really don't want too many blasty spells, at least that seems to be the consensus. Which ones should I take, however. ShreikingDrake recommended blast spells at the upper levels, but not so much along the way. Any suggestions?