Artificer immitating a paladin [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

GIRunit

2011-03-02, 08:01 PM

So, I'm making a character for a 3.5 game my buddy is running. I wanted to make a warforged artificer who, for some reason or another, cannot be an actual paladin like he's always wanted to be, so decides to make himself be a paladin by other means.

I'm covering a lot of my bases with self made custom magical items, like gloves that are able to cast cure light wounds as a 5th level caster twice a day. That's my lay on hands. Or enchanting his eyes with a continuous detect evil spell. Some of the other abilities however, are a little trickier.

I need ideas and some help to get this thing off the ground, like having immunity to fear and whatnot. Starting the game at 5th level with average starting gold of 9K. If I could get any help, I'd greatly appreciate it!

IthroZada

2011-03-02, 09:36 PM

There is a spell, in the Spell Compendium, called Lion's Heart that grants immunity to fear, which is a first 1st level Paladin spell. To make a continuous item out of it would cost around 8,000gp, since it's a 1st level spell, it costs 2,000gp to be continuous, and you multiply that by 4 due to it's duration being measured in rounds.

Edit: And for 6,000 you can get a Skin of the Celestial from the Magic Item Compendium that will let you smite once a day. Along with various other nifty bonuses. Spell Resistance 15, DR 5/magic, Darkvision 60ft., Resistance 10 to cold, acid, and electricity. Lasts for 7 rounds.

Acero

2011-03-02, 10:37 PM

Its an interesting idea, and sounds like a fun character.

The main characteristics of a Paladin are

smite evil
detect evil
Paladin mount
immunity to fear
fall if commited an evil act

Skin of the Celestial covers your smite evil
Detect evil eyes sounds pretty awesome. maybe a lens?
The mount could either be completly destructive or hilarious. your choice.
Artificer don't fall. However, if you want RP, try to repent for some evil deeds you accidentely do.

You should really talk to the DM about this and figure out what he/she does/does not allow about this

IthroZada

2011-03-02, 11:07 PM

Crafting your own mount would actually be rather cool. An Effigy Creature, a Clockwork Steed, or a Brass Steed. Mechonomicon (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=177.0)

Welknair

2011-03-02, 11:13 PM

How would one replicate Immunity to Fear? :smallconfused:

You'd likely need to homebrew another item for that... Maybe some sort of Amulet worth... 5,000? I have no idea what pricing for that would be like...

IthroZada

2011-03-02, 11:17 PM

Welknair

2011-03-02, 11:38 PM

I had entirely forgotten to mention in my first post that was what Lion's Heart does.

*Facepalm*

Well that's what I get for never finishing my project to read every spell in the SC...

GIRunit

2011-03-03, 01:01 AM

Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find the skin of the celestial anywhere...

Also, I'm going to be making all the magical items myself if possible to save me some money. I'll probably take one of the artisan feats to reduce cash cost so I can afford some of this stuff.

I don't have my notes with me, but I think I figured out that my gloves of cure light wounds (which casts 5th lvl cure light wounds twice a day) will cost 1.5k gold if I make it myself. An armblade would cost around 1k if I make it myself, so I have around 6.5k gold left to spend.

I'm going to try to fit in as many abilities as possible at the start, but I believe i'll be given the chance to make more items to gain more abilities as the game progresses. I THINK the detect evil perm is gonna cost me 4k along with the immune to fear being 4k...arg...

Vknight

2011-03-03, 01:06 AM

Your eyes actually could be a visor and you could be a power ranger!!
Reading peoples power levels like a Sayjin!!

Sorry just had to say that

IthroZada

2011-03-03, 01:19 AM

Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find the skin of the celestial anywhere...

Page 169 of the Magic Item Compendium. Also, there is a 6th level spell in the Spell Compendium called Visage of the Deity that functions very similar to Skin of the Celestial. You could make it function x/times per day. But I think the base price for it was like 24k when I tried looking at it as a 5 times a day item.

GIRunit

2011-03-03, 01:51 AM

Your eyes actually could be a visor and you could be a power ranger!!
Reading peoples power levels like a Sayjin!!

Sorry just had to say that

I just might do that. That'd be awesome. Later on I can tweak it to give me other visual things. Over 9,000 jokes, over 9,000 jokes everywhere.

As for the visage, I think that'd be way too expensive even if I knocked it down to a once per day item, though it's something to look into for the future. As of right now, I'm thinking of making the +1 enchant on the armblade into a Holy Surge armblade, since it'd kind of emulate the smite evil ability. I can fudge it to the other players and say I'm doing alternate rules the my GM made up, just to see how it'd go.

The number one thing is that I don't wanna reveal that he's not actually a paladin to the rest of the group in and out of game. I think they'll be really surprised to find out their paladin isn't actually a paladin.

So far, I have in stone my lay on hands ability, which is the cure light wounds gloves. Maybe I can make the detect evil item a x/day item for now, then upgrade it to permanency when I get the money. The smite ability I COULD use the holy surge weapon and straight up lie to everyone, which I don't think would be that hard. The steed is no big deal. wait to get the Craft Construct feat and just say I'm waiting for a special mount. Immunity to fear is gonna be the clincher. I have no idea how to get that without it costing an arm and a leg...

IthroZada

2011-03-03, 03:27 AM

Vknight

2011-03-03, 07:12 AM

Cost Reduction Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7274.0)

I'd heard of this but never seen it thanks Ithro now my villians are a greater threat to the party!!

hewhosaysfish

2011-03-03, 07:36 AM

How about a Phylactery of Faithfulness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#phylacteryofFaithfulness)? Every good Paladin has one.

GIRunit

2011-03-03, 10:14 AM

Well, when I said it would cost 8k, I was talking the market price (the same with the 5/day Visage). If you craft it yourself, that drops it to 4k. Then make it only usable by artificers, 2,800gp. Then make it usable only by those with say 9 ranks in UMD (which you should have at level 5), it becomes 2,520gp to make. Cost Reduction Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7274.0)

But I can't make it at all, considering it requires caster level 11 or so to do it. Even making items as an artificer at level 5 the max caster level I can go is 7. I also didn't know about price reduction. I'll have to run it by my GM to see if it's ok, cause it does seem a little bit on the cheezey side

Edit: I also need help on a stat block. We're using 80 point buy system, and trying to hit a balance between stats without being completely gimpy is hard.

IthroZada

2011-03-03, 02:20 PM

But I can't make it at all, considering it requires caster level 11 or so to do it. Even making items as an artificer at level 5 the max caster level I can go is 7. I also didn't know about price reduction. I'll have to run it by my GM to see if it's ok, cause it does seem a little bit on the cheezey side

Edit: I also need help on a stat block. We're using 80 point buy system, and trying to hit a balance between stats without being completely gimpy is hard.

Well yes, you can't make the Visage until level 9. But you can make the custom Lion's Heart item. It's just a 1st level spell. And you can make it with a caster level of 1 since there are no variable effects. So Immunity to Fear for 2,520 and perfectly in your range to make. And as for the cost reduction stuff, don't use absolutely every method, and lowering the cost through class and skill requirements is just so your party members don't try and use one of your items and realize you aren't a Paladin (fluff wise).

http://www.roletohit.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=92 That is a point buy calculator, but the fact that you are worried about being a gimp with 80 points to spend, you can get 18 in most stats with that.... 32 point buy is generally considered powerful characters.. You have to be using a different version of point buy than I am familiar with.

GIRunit

2011-03-03, 02:37 PM

Well yes, you can't make the Visage until level 9. But you can make the custom Lion's Heart item. It's just a 1st level spell. And you can make it with a caster level of 1 since there are no variable effects. So Immunity to Fear for 2,520 and perfectly in your range to make. And as for the cost reduction stuff, don't use absolutely every method, and lowering the cost through class and skill requirements is just so your party members don't try and use one of your items and realize you aren't a Paladin (fluff wise).

http://www.roletohit.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=92 That is a point buy calculator, but the fact that you are worried about being a gimp with 80 points to spend, you can get 18 in most stats with that.... 32 point buy is generally considered powerful characters.. You have to be using a different version of point buy than I am familiar with.

By gimp, I mean a relative gimp. The table I play at has a lot of power gamers. They're fun to play with, but I dislike making ALL powerful characters (Thus making a paladin artificer rather than a blastificer), but don't wanna be so far behind as to just be dragged around. Having 12's and 14's in all stats is considered wimpy for this group, which is bizarre.

Your magical cost reduction stuff sounds pretty sound now that you've put it that way. Was thinking of making it racially bound instead of class bound though, to make it all warforged components so they aren't as obvious as a regular magical item, but then I have no idea if that'd jack up the price again or not...Hmm...

Edit: Looked at the calculator, and that's not the point buy system we're using. 80 point buy for us is buying ALL your stats. Meaning if you put a 10 in all your stats, you now have 20 points left to increase those 6 stats as you choose.

Chilingsworth

2011-03-03, 02:42 PM

worried about being gimpy with an 80 point buy? :smallconfused:

With 96 points, you can get an 18 in every stat. In normal point buy, you can not have higher than an 18 in a stat before racial adjustments (and level up points, and magial enhancements.)

IthroZada

2011-03-03, 02:52 PM

Edit: Looked at the calculator, and that's not the point buy system we're using. 80 point buy for us is buying ALL your stats. Meaning if you put a 10 in all your stats, you now have 20 points left to increase those 6 stats as you choose.

Then all 8's would leave you with 32 points left so it really is 32 point buy. Unless each point raises an ability score by 1 no matter how high you go, instead of costing 6 points to go from 16 to 18.

Edit: And you'll maybe need to find a way to Turn Undead at some point.

GIRunit

2011-03-03, 03:09 PM

Then all 8's would leave you with 32 points left so it really is 32 point buy. Unless each point raises an ability score by 1 no matter how high you go, instead of costing 6 points to go from 16 to 18.

Edit: And you'll maybe need to find a way to Turn Undead at some point.

1 point raises 1 no matter what, which means I COULD have 3 18's a 10 and 2 8's, though that is kinda garbage in general unless you're playing the bag o' rocks orc barbarian. I just have 5 stats to concentrate on. Strength, Dex, and Con for melee combat stats, and then Intel for my infusions, and lastly charisma for my abilities of UMD. I'd sacrifice dex if it wouldn't take me 2 feats to do it. Adamantine body + heavy armor Prof is HEAVY on feat requirements (2 being massive for an artificer)

Dusk Eclipse

2011-03-03, 03:09 PM

I think he is using a Point buy where has a total of 80 points to distribute in all his stats starting from 0, buying them at 1:1 ratio

IthroZada

2011-03-03, 03:16 PM

1 point raises 1 no matter what, which means I COULD have 3 18's a 10 and 2 8's, though that is kinda garbage in general unless you're playing the bag o' rocks orc barbarian. I just have 5 stats to concentrate on. Strength, Dex, and Con for melee combat stats, and then Intel for my infusions, and lastly charisma for my abilities of UMD. I'd sacrifice dex if it wouldn't take me 2 feats to do it. Adamantine body + heavy armor Prof is HEAVY on feat requirements (2 being massive for an artificer)

You don't need Heavy Armor Proficiency to use Adamantine Body. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20070123a And while you should have a bonus to Charisma, it doesn't need to be super high, there are so many things you can do as an Artificer to raise your skill checks. Like make Masterwork tools for everything.

GIRunit

2011-03-03, 04:08 PM

Huh. I thought Adamatine body would require you to be proficient. Now to see if I'd rather have +3 AC or full movement speed...

All the information you guys are providing is awesome. Thank you SO much for your help. Now I just gotta figure out how I'm gonna make additional magical items without giving myself away WITHOUT a portable hole and humonculus. Portable hole is too expensive to get at this level, and I was thinking of taking the warforged sub level for 4th level, which gets rid of craft humonculus.

IthroZada

2011-03-03, 04:23 PM

GIRunit

2011-03-03, 05:42 PM

Well, if you haven't looked at this, it'll further help you. The Unofficial Artificer Player's Guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5929.0)

Secondly, the Warforged Artificer substitution level is actually pretty good, and is a fair trade for the homunculus, but the homunculus sounds like a better idea for secret crafting. Don't worry overly on the experience costs for crafting. If you fall behind a level, you'll just get more experience from encounters and catch up anyways. And, come level six, you can just start telling everyone that your humanoid homunculus are Warforged Scout followers/cohorts. You don't sound like you are trying to make a Hordeificer, so you shouldn't run into too many problems with the more exotic homunculus.

True, and hopefully my GM can keep my character sheet hidden, so no one will notice I'm a level behind. I was thinking of staying away from the humonculi just because it might give it away. I'd much rather concentrate on just the Wight so he can do the actual crafting for me so I don't mysteriously disappear for days at a time when I'm crafting a magical item.

Is there anything LIKE a portable hole that isn't a portable hole? As in like, a portable hole that only houses a workshop for magical item crafters.

Vknight

2011-03-03, 06:03 PM

I believe there is one but I'm forgetting it's name.
It works like a portable hole but at a reduced cost being as it only has one function and some other things but yeah.
If there is not why not ask you Dm if you can make your own it should be no major problem to build a portable hole style device to hold a workshop within.

IthroZada

2011-03-03, 06:31 PM

Okay, Enveloping Pit (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6151.0)

So, this one is a bit weird. You may have to work with your DM for it. I would suggest changing the fluff on it, so it works for your alignment. It's cheap enough to straight up buy, and insanely cheaper to just make. And it would be just plain useful for your group, and you can keep the bottom two floors hidden/blocked for your Wright to work in, without your allies seeing it.

As for something actually more suited for crafting/more RAW... I haven't found that yet.

Vknight

2011-03-03, 06:44 PM

Thats what I was thinking of!

Enveloping Pit how could I forget you.

GIRunit

2011-03-03, 10:35 PM

Oh, wow! Never even heard of that before. Now I gotta figure out the price of a tower to put INSIDE the pit!

Vknight

2011-03-03, 10:39 PM

The Builders Guide

IthroZada

2011-03-03, 10:50 PM

The Builders Guide

Stronghold Builder's Guide to be exact. They have workshops in there that require one stronghold space, which is about 20x20. For the pit, you'd have to do 10x10 so two floors for the magical laboratory needed. You could use ladders to get in and out after that to save you the initial cost, and add stuff later. A regular craft shop is about 500gp. I don't know how much a Magical Laboratory costs.

Vknight

2011-03-03, 11:06 PM

It's not that much more depending upon the degree of the magic shop.

GIRunit

2011-03-04, 12:11 PM

Alright, I'll definitely check that out. So that takes care of hiding my humonculi to make my items for me, most of the paladin like abilities, now I need to think of feats. I was thinking Adamantine body (Since it doesn't require a prof to use), Exotic weapon prof Bastard sword (Cause the arm blade is not only stereotypical for a warforged paladin, but also pretty good on it's own), and my artificer bonus feat...Not too sure if I should try to go metamagic and start making buff wands to act all day, or try to cut some costs on making magical items.

Though I always think REAL small scale when it comes to these things. Anything you guys think would be better?