Best dip for clerics. Dragonfire Adept or Beguiler?

[NekoJoker]

What the title says, what seems to be the most interesting low-level dip for a cleric?

The beguiler and it's spells?
Or the Dragonfire adept with its draconic flair?

Both offer interesting things as a one level dip

Dragonfire Adept
HD8
BAB 0
Svs: F= 2 R=0 W=2
Breath Weapon 1d6
Dragontouched [+1spot, listen, search and +1Hp; can take Draconic feats]
Least Invocation - Draconic Knowledge [+6 on all knowledge checks, may do them untrained and +6 on spellcraft]
Skills: 4+int Has UMD


Beguiler
HD 6
BAB 0
Svs: F= 0 R=0 W=2
Cast in light armor
trapfinding
Five 0 level spells
three 1 level spells
Skills: 6+int Has UMD


The idea is to come up with the best choice for a cleric build that goes for only 3 levels to begin with
yeah, I know, going straight cleric is better... but I still want to try.

So Playground, which of this two seems the most competent choice for low level players to dip as a one time affair?

[Amnestic]

Beguiler for Cloistered Cleric, DFA for the normal variety?

Would be my suggestion at least.

[NekoJoker]

Why yes, this is a Cloistered Cleric build, so Beguiler seems to fit nicely on it... good skill selection, many skill pojnts, awesome flavour, trapfinding and can ignore some ASF. A solid choice.

But why not the DFA? it gives good saves, a neat feat, the breath weapon and interesting invocations, such as draconic knowledge and beguiling influence.

[Amnestic]

Why yes, this is a Cloistered Cleric build, so Beguiler seems to fit nicely on it... good skill selection, many skill pojnts, awesome flavour, trapfinding and can ignore some ASF. A solid choice.

But why not the DFA? it gives good saves, a neat feat, the breath weapon and interesting invocations, such as draconic knowledge and beguiling influence.

You only get one Invocation if it's just a one level dip, obviously, and the 1st level invocations for DFAs are ridiculously smexy - Draconic Knowledge, Beguiling Influence, Magical Insight (Free Identify forever? Nice) and Endure Exposure are all tasty, which means it's disappointing that it's a one level dip.

My choice for the Beguiler was centred around expanding the Cloistered Cleric's spell options further and Trapfinding. The "cast in light armour" thematically makes it stick in my mind (and I'm all about the thematics). The bonus skillpoints don't hurt either.

Admittedly, yeah, a DFA makes a competent competitor - and don't get me wrong, I love DFAs - but a Beguiler just seems to "fit" for me. :smalltongue:

[Psyborg]

Cloistered Cleric = free Knowledge Devotion.
Dragonfire Adept = free +6 to all knowledges.

Yeah, totally not the obvious choice :smalltongue:

[Tvtyrant]

Beguiler gets you access to a lot more magical variety though...

[Tyndmyr]

Cloistered Cleric = free Knowledge Devotion.
Dragonfire Adept = free +6 to all knowledges.

Yeah, totally not the obvious choice :smalltongue:

That does save a ridiculous amount of skillpoints. I'd have to say that's fairly hard to pass up.

[Felyndiira]

Cloistered Cleric = free Knowledge Devotion.
Dragonfire Adept = free +6 to all knowledges.

Yeah, totally not the obvious choice :smalltongue:

Assuming that Neko is really making a 3-level class, +6 to all knowledge checks really amounts to a +1 on damage and attack rolls on average =p. Besides, without divine power and with multiclassing, a cloistered cleric has an effective BAB of +1, so hitting stuff isn't easy, either.

I'd go with beguiler if this really is a three-level build. If not, maybe you could look into dipping a level in wizard - the conjurer ACF is generally very useful for the summon monster line of spells (and any other summonings). But yeah:

Beguiler: Great for the short term
DFA: Good for the long term

[Bosh]

Beguiler as a dip is rather pointless as those first level spells would rapidly become obsolete. DFA could work but only if you have it synergize well with something the cleric already does.

With 3.5ed multiclassing trying to be a broad character is generally a newbie trap, generally only multiclass if that lets you do something that your regular class is already good at even better than if you stuck with your regular class (for example the knowledge check example).

But, especially with a full caster, it'll usually backfire to do anything that cuts into your caster advancement.

[MammonAzrael]

Two very different approaches, both valid, and it really depends on what you want out of your cleric.

The beguiler will be very social and assuming that you grab it as first level, a bit of a skill monkey. This will be a bit MAD, as Int does relatively nothing for clerics. Do you have a rouge or party face in your party already? Because this is the roll you'd be headed towards.

The dragonfire adept will shine as a battlefield controller. The draconic theme is very central, so if your want a dragon style this is the call. The breath weapon will be pretty useless, unless you pick up Entangling Exhalation, which will give you a fantastic BFC option at will, that will remain relevant throughout your entire career. There are various excellent least invocations to choose from, and they depend on what you want your cleric to focus on.

As said, grabbing draconic knowledge pairs very well with Knowledge Devotion, which means good times if your cleric is planning on wading into the think of things (which would also be friendly with a higher Con). Beguiling Influence is good for being a face, though it is now competeing with Beguiler. Endure Exposure is always a solid choice, especially if there are high chances of friendly fire (and never having to worry about environment conditions is nice). And finally, Magic Insight is a very very good and unique ability, allowing you to identify without cost or the huge time sink.

Ultimately, it comes down to what you want the cleric to focus on, and what themes you want to put forth. Both are workable choices, though I think the DFA has more mechanical synergy.