Demoralization focused Factotum

[JKTrickster]

Whenever someone wants to build a factotum, Iajutsu Focus is almost ALWAYS high on the list. However, this time around I want to focus on a Intimidate-Demoralize build instead. The idea of a character that reduces their opponents to a sobbing pile without moving a muscle is extremely intriguing!

I'm set on the Factotum aspect, and I'm thinking Human Factotum 8/Chameleon 10/ Something else 2. Possibly dip Master of Masks 1 and Exemplar or something...

So playground, how can I make this character? After all if the Factotum is the skillmonkeys of skillmonkeys, maxing Intimidate should be no hard task...

[sonofzeal]

For true Intimidation mastery, you either want CW Samurai, or Zhentarim Fighter. Factotum can do it, but has no real advantage besides a 1/day boost, at least until high level.

Also look up "Duel of Wills" from Tome of Battle.

[Aspenor]

Imperious Command from Drow of the Underdark. Makes affected opponents cower for one round and be shaken the round after. Full of pure Win.

Throw in the Never Outnumbered skill trick, Fearsome armor enhancement (DotU), and Intimidate in a radius as a move action.

Watch the coup-de-grace ensue. Oh, and IIRC there is some way to get a CDG to a standard action, meaning you can do it yourself in the same round.

[Zaq]

What level will you be playing at?

[JaronK]

Imperious Command is solid, and also there's an armor in Drow of the Underdark that lets you intimidate as a Move Action. Don't forget the Never Outnumbered skill trick, which lets you AoE intimidate. Plus, a dip into Bard for the Dragon Magic Variant that gets Inspire Awe at level 1 is huge... it will cause everyone to stay cowering indefinitely, as long as they're near you (remember how fear stacks... you get set to the worst fear condition (stacking them) and the duration is that of the longest one, so if Imperious Command makes them Cower then Inspire Awe keeps them there).

Scarlet Corsair 5 and Dread Pirate 5 are also useful, as both give AoE long duration intimidation.

JaronK

[prufock]

Never Outnumbered skill trick is a must. Demoralizing all within 10 feet now, instead of one target that you threaten. Since you're at it, get a spiked chain. Now, if necessary, you can threaten a single target 15 or 20 feet away, because you're going to increase your size.

For feats, Imperious Command as already mentioned. Nymph's Kiss for +2 on all charisma checks and extra skill points.

Be large or get large. One of your spells is Enlarge Person. Or Polymorph, go giant or something. If playing in FR, choose Jotunbrud feat, so you qualify as the next higher size on opposed rolls for another +4 (this assumes they stack, which is not RAW).

Bluff 5 for +2 synergy, natch. Skill Focus and Persuasive for +5.

Remember that fear effects from different sources are cumulative, so stack on some sources that are not based on intimidate. Get some sort of frightful aura (Dreadful Wrath, Draconic Presence, Frightful Presence all available as feats, Dreadful Wrath being possibly the best choice). Add the Aura of Menace spell to improve this feat's DC and radius.

[FMArthur]

You might also consider taking a Marshal dip for Cha twice to your Charisma-based skills. Even 3 levels is decent for adding Charisma to your Dexterity checks to pump your Initiative roll quite high and then going first to change to Charisma-boosting and Iaijutsu Focus your flat-footed foe. In this way Marshal can perform as a passable Charisma-based Factotum substitute; a Magic-Blooded Lesser Aasimar can easily have a +10 Charisma modifier by mid levels. Even going all-out to be a Succubus Marshal for +yes to Intimidate and +dead to Iaijutsu Focus can be worth the RHD and LA. Just be sure to PrC out into Scarlet Corsair for that sweet 30ft AoE intimidation (Never Outnumbered is a child's toy by comparison at 10ft AoE once per encounter) at 5th level and the ability to render foes Shaken by simply Sneak Attacking at 9th.

[NineThePuma]

Scarlet Corsair 5 and Dread Pirate 5 are also useful, as both give AoE long duration intimidation.

Sources? >>

[JaronK]

Complete Adventurer and Stormwrack.

JaronK

[Aspenor]

Nice catch on those 30 foot AoE's. Never really looked too deeply into such a build, myself.

[SurlySeraph]

Taking Dreadful Wrath from Player's Guide to Faerun is a good idea. It gives you Frightful Presence.
Nymph's Kiss (BoED) is really good for all skillmonkeys, and the +2 to all Cha-related checks is a further bonus.

[Pechvarry]

Watch the coup-de-grace ensue. Oh, and IIRC there is some way to get a CDG to a standard action, meaning you can do it yourself in the same round.

(Un?)fortunately, no fear conditions, including cowering, induce helplessness. So no Coup de Grace.

Also, not sure why no one's mentioned this. Perhaps it's just a no-brainer not worth mentioning. Cunning Surge's extra standard actions means extra demoralization.

Also also, Avenging Executioner. I <3 it long time for being a) awesome and b) only 5 levels long. With some reach and Stand Still, your fights go something like this: Start an encounter with sudden strike, preferably with multiple attacks. Stack up the fear effects on everyone around you. When they try to run > AoO > stand still > cowering > more sudden strikes > keep it going.

[Draz74]

As far as one-level dips go, of course either Dragonfire Adept or Warlock can get you an Invocation that carries a +6 Intimidate bonus.

[Amphetryon]

Moradin's Smile will get you another +2 on all CHA checks.

[prufock]

Oddly, no one has mentioned the obvious Crystal Mask of Dread. Magic Item Compendium, +10 intimidate.

Also, you might want to think about picking up Dread Witch (HoH) when you can. Pretty easy requirements, +2 to intimidate per each level of a 5 level class, and some other good fear effects.

[NineThePuma]

Try editing new thoughts into your previous post, rather than double posting.

[JKTrickster]

Which of the PrCs should I go for then? Dread Pirate, Scarlet Corsair, or Dread Witch?

Where is Moradin's Smile found?

[FMArthur]

Scarlet Corsair is everything the Dread Pirate is and more. Dread Pirate's AoE intimidation doesn't even stack with itself and only lasts your Charisma bonus in rounds. I'm a little surprised that it was mentioned at all, being notoriously bad and being outclassed so hard by Scarlet Corsair. Scarlet Corsair is from Stormwrack, and Dread Pirate is in Complete Adventurer if you want to know where to rip out some useless pages I guess.

Dread Witch from Heroes of Horror is probably the most powerful option but is for dedicated spellcasters, with Hit Dice and BAB corresponding to that. You also need a base Will save of 4 that makes it a long way off for Factotum entry. Anyway its primary benefit is at 4th level where it alone is able to overcome the fear immunity barrier that normal fear-stackers hit - Dread Witch grants you the ability to bypass fear immunity with your spells. No ifs and or buts: if a target is wholly immune to fear, then a Dread Witch can instill fear with spells. It's probably not what you're looking for though.

[JaronK]

Scarlet Corsair is everything the Dread Pirate is and more. Dread Pirate's AoE intimidation doesn't even stack with itself and only lasts your Charisma bonus in rounds. I'm a little surprised that it was mentioned at all, being notoriously bad and being outclassed so hard by Scarlet Corsair. Scarlet Corsair is from Stormwrack, and Dread Pirate is in Complete Adventurer if you want to know where to rip out some useless pages I guess.

What are you talking about? They're exactly identical abilities in every way, straight down to the name. They do exactly the same thing (they last your charisma bonus in rounds, minimum 1, affect everyone within 30' that can see and hear you, and don't stack with themselves).

The only difference in their intimidation is that the Dread Pirate also gets a scaling bonus to intimidate from a different ability starting early in the class (it ends up at +6) while the Scarlet Corsair gets the ability to make foes shaken with sneak attack (with an undefined duration) at level 9.


Dread Witch from Heroes of Horror is probably the most powerful option but is for dedicated spellcasters, with Hit Dice and BAB corresponding to that. You also need a base Will save of 4 that makes it a long way off for Factotum entry. Anyway its primary benefit is at 4th level where it alone is able to overcome the fear immunity barrier that normal fear-stackers hit - Dread Witch grants you the ability to bypass fear immunity with your spells. No ifs and or buts: if a target is wholly immune to fear, then a Dread Witch can instill fear with spells. It's probably not what you're looking for though.

This part is correct though... many enemies at higher levels are immune to fear, which can make a character like this useless. This class is the only one that has a blanket immunity cracking ability. Note that an Inspire Awe Bard can use fear on undead, but only their Inspire Awe ability, and only if they have the Requiem feat. But with Haunting Melody, they can send things straight to Frightened.

JaronK

[FMArthur]

Oh whoops. It's been a long time since I'd read Scarlet Corsair and only have rough notes on an NPC character sheet in front of me. I should really take my books out of their boxes and erect a proper shelving unit for easier perusal.

AND what this means is that Samurai 10 is in fact the best melee demoralization class, getting ordinary demoralization (stackable) in the 30ft AoE. Avenging Executioner is still better than the next five levels for the move action though. Amazing. I thought the Scarlet Corsair'd robbed the poor Samurai of its only claim to fame. This actually makes me happy.

[JaronK]

Same source doesn't stack... the notes in DP and SC are just reminders. Not that it matters... the Samurai one doesn't last any longer than the normal one round. He's strictly worse than the DP and SC versions.

And remember, move action intimidation (the Samurai's 14 ability) is available as a relatively cheap armor enchantment in Drow of the Underdark.

The best class for it is actually the Zhentarium variant Fighter, which gets Swift Action Intimidation at level 9... that's actually worth something. Rogue 1/Zhentarium Fighter 9/Scarlet Corsair or Dread Pirate 5 is something actually worth writing home about, since anything that's not immune to fear is cowering (you DID take Imperious Command, right?) as a swift action. Finish out with Inspire Awe Bard or Exemplar or something.

JaronK

[FMArthur]

Adding a condition is not a modifier or bonus or penalty - the condition itself may add penalties, but that's irrelevant. The fear rules explicitly say what happens when a Shaken character would be Shaken again. The Samurai's class feature just modifies his regular Intimidate skill's demoralization ability. If that doesn't stack with itself, then none of the other ways to let you demoralize repeatedly stack either.

Zhentarium Fighter is of course fantastic and I forgot about it, but doesn't actually outclass a Samurai's intimidation ability. Samurai 10/Zhentarium Fighter 9/Anything 1 is going to be better at demoralization than Scarlet Corsair or Dread Pirate.

[JaronK]

Adding a condition is not a modifier or bonus or penalty - the condition itself may add penalties, but that's irrelevant. The fear rules explicitly say what happens when a Shaken character would be Shaken again. The Samurai's class feature just modifies his regular Intimidate skill's demoralization ability. If that doesn't stack with itself, then none of the other ways to let you demoralize repeatedly stack either.

...And they don't. Remember, Demoralization only lasts one round, and takes a standard action, so one character doesn't do it more than once in a way that could stack unless something funny is going on. And it's definitely a penalty.

Remember, the Samurai, like any other demoralizer, only has his ability work for one round at a time. It's pretty lame. You need something to increase the duration. Enter Scarlet Corsair and Dread Pirate, along with Imperious Command. Stacking doesn't matter as they hit Cowering immediately... and now there's a duration.


Zhentarium Fighter is of course fantastic and I forgot about it, but doesn't actually outclass a Samurai's intimidation ability. Samurai 10/Zhentarium Fighter 9/Anything 1 is going to be better at demoralization than Scarlet Corsair or Dread Pirate.

SC 5 or DP 5 completely trumps Samurai 10. Completely. There is not one single thing better about the Samurai 10 ability. The only difference is one gives a long duration, and the other only lasts one round. As such, it's Zhentarium Fighter 9/SC or DP 5 (you'll need another class dip in there for skill prerequisites) that's the good one... it's strictly better than Zhentarium Fighter 9/Samurai 10 at intimidation (and it's still got 5 levels to fill in!).

JaronK

[FMArthur]

Because multiple uses of Scourge of the Seas explicitly don't stack, you can't cower everyone within 30ft a second time until your Charisma modifier in rounds passes. With Imperious Command, a Samurai with pumped Intimidate is going to be keeping every enemy not immune to fear in a 30ft radius locked-down indefinitely. You can eat up all of your feats and half your levels getting intimidate as a swift, standard and move action and a Samurai 10 will be packing more pure disabling power for his single standard action. You also need to threaten their space to demoralize most of the time. Aside from these few AoE intimidates I can only think of Intimidating Rage that lets you do so at a distance.

[JaronK]

Because multiple uses of Scourge of the Seas explicitly don't stack, you can't cower everyone within 30ft a second time until your Charisma modifier in rounds passes.

Sure you can. It doesn't stack... it resets. To cowering. It really is strictly better.

And this way you have enough levels left over for Inspire Awe Bard, which will create another skill based fear effect (they're effectively unresistable if you're not immune, because of how high you can pump skills) that has a much longer duration. This will keep them locked in fear indefinitely with a single use. Throw in Requiem (can affect undead) and Haunting Melody (send them straight to frightened) for extra fun.

JaronK

[FMArthur]

Well, then you have my agreement. Scarlet Corsair rocks. Even Dread Pirate is better than Samurai.