BBEG with out the E

[Darth Stabber]

If you live in St. Louis, MO and play in my thursday night games please ignore this post. Tom, Bri, Mike I'm looking at you!

Okay so I'm not playing with an evil party, but fairly close given that one player is a CloudCoocoolander Dread Necromancer (Toshiko-ish), and another is effectively a contract killer (and Everyone has tomb-tainted soul).

For my main villian of the story arc I am planning on a Cleric/RSoP. The Cleric is plotting against the city due to it's acceptance and trade with the necromancer ruled nation to the north, and the fact that the city allows people to walk around with zombie and skeletal servants in broad daylight. And I have a paladin as the cleric's right hand man, and they have already met him as he preached in the city square. Now is there a good way for two good characters (including a paladin), to scheme against a just (if tweaked) authority, over the issue of undeath. Would this cause alignment trouble or is this with in the realm of sketchy but okay?

[Cyrion]

I'd say that you'd be fine. In D&D the undead are almost always assocaited with evil (there are a couple of neutral undead out there, and way way back forever ago I remember seeing someone contriving to have a good undead monster). So, even though the other kingdom is "just" it will still probably ping as evil and be fair game for a paladin and good cleric.

Also, remember that "just" and "good" aren't necessarily equivalent. Baator will be just- the rules are clearly laid out and followed scrupulously (on an official level), but there's no way you'd ever call it good.

[Darth Stabber]

The rulership of the city is not evil. Slightly mercenary at time, and lots of favormongering, but generally clean. The only issue is acceptance of necromancers, and trade with a country full of necromancers.

[GodGoblin]

Well Cleric as a whole dont have to have any real objection unless they are good (But even it depends on the Diety/ideal) So how about a Cleric of St. Cuthbert or something? It has the divine retribution element but is still LN

For the Paladin you could make him a Grey Guard, then being morally sketchy is all part of his class mechanics! :smallbiggrin:

Having those two walking around would equal some serious badassery :smallcool:

[Cyrion]

That just opens up the philosophical argument of whether or not, if you condone evil, you share in that evil. The D&D alignment system isn't really robust enough to survive that kind of argument.

In any event, someone's going to count as evil for all of the undead. The paladin and cleric can be working against them in order to "liberate" the city from a problem the mercenary leaders "clearly aren't competent enough to handle."

[Master_Rahl22]

Yeah, these particular Burning Hate followers just happening to focus on Good vs Evil instead of Lawful vs Chaotic. The kingdom in question could be generally Lawful, and even Neutral to Good on that scale, but as worshippers of Pelor they abhor undead and anybody that tolerates them must be evil, right?

[RndmNumGen]

Nations in real life have gone to war for less, so assuming the cleric can gain enough support I don't see why not. After all, even if the nation itself is neutral, there is sure to be a lot of evil necromancers hiding out in there, so if the clerics offer some sort of 'surrender and we will give quarter' clause, then it should work out alright.

[Grelna the Blue]

It sorta depends. As the GM, you first have to decide whether the animation of mindless undead IS evil in your campaign. It doesn't matter what other authorities or other campaign settings have to say about it. It is your game. Even if you determine that it is evil, that does not mean that people who condone it are. They could just be misguided, taken in by necromancer propaganda. The "official" alignment fluff around necromancy in 3.5 is incredibly confusing and contradictory, so you essentially have to resolve this question by GM fiat.

Even if you determine that the animation of skeletons and zombies is morally neutral in your game, that doesn't mean that all the necromancers who do so are nonevil. Where are these animated bodies coming from? The cleric and paladin could also be concerned about a slippery slope situation in which toleration of normal zombies leads to toleration of juju zombies (unequivocably evil) and even nastier forms of undead.

Keep in mind also that Lawful Good can vehemently disagree with Lawful Neutral. There is just as much difference between the two as between Neutral and Neutral Evil.