World of Warcraft XI: The Other Kind of Twilight Fanatics

[The Linker]

Stupid sparkly cult.

Last thread here! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179712)

World of Warcraft. Discuss.

[Psyren]

From previous thread:


Because it's bigger? Like ordering a bigger hamburger cost more.

I think he meant "Why does it cost that much more" rather than simply "why does it cost more."



I agree, in that it somewhat ruins the immersion. However, his spawn frequency is supposed to increase with every content patch (IE-4.1) and once you have the achievement you really don't want to run into him again. By the second to last patch (the one right before the Deathwing raid is released) he's supposed to be blasting zones quite often.

I hope you're right about the frequency thing, since that'll generate even more delicious tears from the World PvP proponents.

"Man, I was all set to gank this level 50 then WHOOSH! We both died!"

Come to think of it, it would be really hilarious if, in a future patch, he began torching BGs too. :smallamused:

[pffh]

From previous thread:



I think he meant "Why does it cost that much more" rather than simply "why does it cost more."



I hope you're right about the frequency thing, since that'll generate even more delicious tears from the World PvP proponents.

"Man, I was all set to gank this level 50 then WHOOSH! We both died!"

Come to think of it, it would be really hilarious if, in a future patch, he began torching BGs too. :smallamused:

Or cities, that would be awesome :smallbiggrin:

[Karoht]

I think he meant "Why does it cost that much more" rather than simply "why does it cost more."Materials difference? Wool is a whole level above linen and so on and so forth.
Yeah, 22 slot bags aren't cheap either. Enjoy.



I hope you're right about the frequency thing, since that'll generate even more delicious tears from the World PvP proponents.
"Man, I was all set to gank this level 50 then WHOOSH! We both died!"
Come to think of it, it would be really hilarious if, in a future patch, he began torching BGs too. :smallamused:BG's yes, so long as both sides get an auto lose (and the lose reward), and automatically restarts the BG (with everyone from the old one) so there is no waste of que time.

I also think he should go and nuke main cities, at least for a week before he goes and hides in his raid only cave.

[The Linker]

Kislath might be referring to the bags that vendors carry. In which case, go see the auction house. :smalltongue:

[TheEmerged]

Obligatory first page stuff

Shaynta (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/silver-hand/shaynta/advanced), my main (frost mage, enchanter, tailor).

Laram (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/silver-hand/laram/simple), my primary alt (bear/tree druid & scribe).

DiesHorribly (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/silver-hand/dieshorribly/simple), my twinked-out goblin hunter all.

I'm about as casual as you can get and still get your money's worth (1.5 hours a day most days). I'm a proponent of the Army of Alts(tm) method of playing (I have alts for every profession).

As something of a running joke, I pretend one certain class doesn't exist.Warlock

--------------------

RE: Firelands not in 4.1. I'm glad, personally. Gives me more time to get enough valor points to purchase an upgrade before they get turned into justice points.

[tyckspoon]

Kislath might be referring to the bags that vendors carry. In which case, go see the auction house. :smalltongue:

Yup. Vendor bags are a horrible trap (the city-rep bags from the quartermasters are pretty good, tho.) Check the auction house, buy some Mageweave or preferably Netherweave bags as your finance allows, don't worry about upgrading further until you consider yourself rich- a four-set of Netherweave (standard 16-slot bag) will see you through most things unless you are a horrible hoarder.

[Psyren]

Materials difference? Wool is a whole level above linen and so on and so forth.
Yeah, 22 slot bags aren't cheap either. Enjoy.

umadbro? :smallconfused:
10 slots to 12 is simply silk to mageweave. I wouldn't pay 8g more per bag for such a minor bump either. (Especially not with the aforementioned method of easily and cheaply getting 16s.)


BG's yes, so long as both sides get an auto lose (and the lose reward), and automatically restarts the BG (with everyone from the old one) so there is no waste of que time.

I also think he should go and nuke main cities, at least for a week before he goes and hides in his raid only cave.

He'll probably keep flapping around even after the raid opens up. One of the complaints about early-mid BC was how so few people got to see Kael and Illidan unless they were in top-tier raiding guilds; this is why Kael was added to Magister's Terrace later and Arthas popped up all over Wrath. This will be even more relevant now that they are focusing on making the dungeons even harder.

For BGs I agree he'd have to affect both sides. Maybe in WSG you have to run inside before the entire outdoor area and graveyards get torched or something. It most likely won't happen but I think it would be an interesting way of reminding the Alliance and Horde they have bigger things to worry about than each other.

[Karoht]

For BGs I agree he'd have to affect both sides. Maybe in WSG you have to run inside before the entire outdoor area and graveyards get torched or something. It most likely won't happen but I think it would be an interesting way of reminding the Alliance and Horde they have bigger things to worry about than each other.Actually, yeah, if it was avoidable death in BG's, and served more as a distraction, rather than ending the match, I think it would kind of have that effect.
Assuming the PvP players didn't waaaah about it too much.

[AgentPaper]

Assuming the PvP players didn't waaaah about it too much.

Wait, that would be a bad thing? :smallconfused:

[Karoht]

Wait, that would be a bad thing? :smallconfused:Well, some would laugh, others would not.
I would laugh. Wouldn't you?

[GolemsVoice]

Yay, mine got chosen.

Oh, and please no Deathwing in BGs. As much as I'd love the idea (and I'd love it very much), I can already hear my guildmate complaing. He complains about EVERYTHING in PvP. ALL THE TIME.

[Kish]

Oh, and please no Deathwing in BGs. As much as I'd love the idea (and I'd love it very much), I can already hear my guildmate complaing. He complains about EVERYTHING in PvP. ALL THE TIME.
Then it wouldn't make any difference, would it?

Other than possibly his complaining might get slightly more amusing?

[Psyren]

So I've started my very first affliction lock and I'm already in love. Demo was great (I leveled one before they just gave you the Felguard on a platter, natch) but this is so much fun. I'm already drain-tanking mobs and I don't even have Soul Siphon/Siphon Life yet.

I know I could have just respecced my higher lock but I always feel like I would miss crucial playstyle lessons that way. And Afflic. definitely plays very differently to Demo, at least to me. I've already banished Immolate from my action bar.

[term1nally s1ck]

Affliction locks are funnnnnn

MOAR DOTS. MOAR.

Plus the stacking % increase on damage off shadow bolt's talent later on is spectacularly powerful if you can get it going.

[GolemsVoice]

Because I'm just flying over it, has it ever been revealed just what the blue dragonflight is doing with these trees in Crystalsong Forest?

[TheEmerged]

Weekend Report. I'm now into Revered for Wintersaber, and closing in on Exalted with Baradin (and finally replacing my 305 trinket). It's been confirmed that Guild rep does count toward the rep-count achievements by the guy in our guild that's going to hit 55 for us soon (the achievement is bugged and only counts the person in the guild with the most reps).

Speaking of Baradin, the guild has finally crossed the halfway mark on the Bait achievement for the cooking recipe. Last night was the first time I've had trouble finding fishing pools in Tol Barad, I suspect some other guilds have started work on it.

This came up before, but I wanted to put it in the new post in case anyone else plans to try Wintersaber rep before 4.1 hits.

1> Accept, but do not turn in when complete, this quest (http://www.wowhead.com/quest=28615) just outside the Winterfall Village. It will allow you to destroy the totems in the village -- greatly increasing the number of spawns in the village. I've got an alt parked there to do this for me after I turned the quest in.

2> There are a number of spawns on the cliff to the east of the village, including up to 2 shaman.

3> Is there someone else on your side (alliance/horde) doing the quests? Group with them! The spawn rate of the giants in particular is not fast enough to accomodate 2 people. Be sure to set loot to free-for-all for Provisions though.

4> Is someone from the opposite faction doing the quests? Skip the giants. To be honest with you, it might be faster skipping them to begin with. I haven't tested it because I appreciate the break in the monotony. All told it takes 10-15 minutes per cycle of doing all 3 quests if I'm not having spawn problems, and you can probably do the first 2 quests in about half of that if you can blow the totems away without have to switch to an alt.

[Karoht]

Then it wouldn't make any difference, would it?

Other than possibly his complaining might get slightly more amusing?

"So then the sky darkend and Deathwing showed up."
"And then?"
"He killed the opposing team."
"...and?"
"We were just starting to push them back into their own graveyard and spawn camp them dangit! I wanted to teabag some noobs."


My Weedend Report:
Got all the coins out of the Dalaran Fountain, and reached 50 exalted factions at last. Not a clue how I'm going to push 60. I have 2 Goblin factions remaining (both a very very short grind as they are 3/4's through revered to exalted), I guess I could do darkmoon faire, I'm not far now on my Brood of Nozdormu rep (maybe 3 full clears and I'm good), and Hydraxian waterlords is a short enough grind from where I'm sitting. This would take me to 55. 55-60 I would need to do things such as ravenholdt, bloodsail buckaneers, Magram/Gelkis centaurs.

Also, 20 achievements away from Over Nine Thousand.

[The Linker]

55-60 I would need to do things such as ravenholdt, bloodsail buckaneers, Magram/Gelkis centaurs.

I don't think those centaurs are a proper faction at all anymore. Not to mention that their rep essentially capped at Revered, from what I'm reading. :smallconfused:


It's been confirmed that Guild rep does count toward the rep-count achievements by the guy in our guild that's going to hit 55 for us soon (the achievement is bugged and only counts the person in the guild with the most reps).

Is he the only one at Revered or higher with the guild? :smalltongue:

Edit: Never mind, yeah, I see now lots of people are saying the same thing.

[Zeb The Troll]

55-60 I would need to do things such as ravenholdt, bloodsail buckaneers, Magram/Gelkis centaurs.


I don't think those centaurs are a proper faction at all anymore.From what I saw when Alarra and I recently went back through Desolace for our Loremaster achievement, one of those factions doesn't even exist anymore (I think it's Gelkis) and we didn't get a single point of rep for the other one. I'm pretty sure those are out now.

[Karoht]

Either way, 50-55 is going to be obscure reps, 55-60 I don't have a clue what I'm going to do.

[Zeb The Troll]

Actually, speaking of reps, Alarra and I cleared AQ20 the other day and were pleased that we got some Brood of Nozdormu rep. Until we realized we're starting at Hated and the entire clear netted us exactly 385/36000 rep, including the 10% guild bonus. How the HELL are you supposed to get them to Exalted? By my math, we'd have to clear each boss 219 times in order to get the 84000 rep required. That can't be right, is it?

[TheEmerged]

Is he the only one at Revered or higher with the guild? :smalltongue:

Edit: Never mind, yeah, I see now lots of people are saying the same thing.

Yeah, I meant that more in the way of "someone who most likely knows what they're talking about told me..." than anything else.

60 exalted reps? Are there even that many possible? O_o


Actually, speaking of reps, Alarra and I cleared AQ20 the other day and were pleased that we got some Brood of Nozdormu rep. Until we realized we're starting at Hated and the entire clear netted us exactly 385/36000 rep, including the 10% guild bonus. How the HELL are you supposed to get them to Exalted? By my math, we'd have to clear each boss 219 times in order to get the 84000 rep required. That can't be right, is it?

I think Brood rep mostly comes out of AQ40. I got a bit more than halfway thru Hated in one run.

[Karoht]

Actually, speaking of reps, Alarra and I cleared AQ20 the other day and were pleased that we got some Brood of Nozdormu rep. Until we realized we're starting at Hated and the entire clear netted us exactly 385/36000 rep, including the 10% guild bonus. How the HELL are you supposed to get them to Exalted? By my math, we'd have to clear each boss 219 times in order to get the 84000 rep required. That can't be right, is it?
Your math is right. If you only run AQ20 for Brood rep. AQ20 is more for Cenarian Circle rep.

First, you get signficantly more rep in AQ40. 100 per trash mob until you're out of hated/unfriendly. It goes fast.
I've only run the place at maximum 20 times and I'm almost exalted. I'm probably exaggerating as I can only remember 4 or 5 full clears of AQ40.
You get gobs of rep until you hit neutral or friendly. Then it slows down. But, here's some tips to speed it up a notch.
1-Collect the Qiraji Insignias. Don't turn them in until you hit honored/revered.
2-Turning in C'Thun's eye gives you a pretty big chunk. Again, save it until you are honored/revered.
3-Turning in the parts to get the Tier 2 set pieces give you rep, and it's repeatable. As in you can get the same tier piece multiple times and you get rep each time. If you only go in there with 10 people, it's quite likely you'll walk out with 2 or 3 Tier 2 pieces needed for the turn-ins. Again, save this to honored/revered.
4-If you go to caverns of time (save it for after revered) and talk to anachronos, he'll give you a ring. It upgrades as your rep upgrades. And you get rep every time you upgrade it (which is free). If you wait until you are revered, I think it works out to something like 400 rep for all 3 turn ins (with rep bonus from guild perks).

See what you learn by reading up on things on wowpedia.org?


As for 60 reps, aren't they adding in another achievement for 60? Or maybe I mis-read that.

[Blayze]

Either way, 50-55 is going to be obscure reps, 55-60 I don't have a clue what I'm going to do.

I've got 52 at the moment, and when I've finished with the remaining Steamwheedle Cartel factions I'll have 55--the only removed faction I have is the Zandalar, and what I've got left can be summed up as "The Insane and Justicar minus AV."


60 exalted reps? Are there even that many possible? O_o

61 in total, assuming you got your Zandalar and Shen'dralar reputations done before the Shattering. Since Blizzard intend achievements to be possible for players no matter when they start playing (For example, why worgen and goblin characters will be able to do the Argent Tournament), they'd have to add in another faction before we could get a 60-faction achievement.

And then, they'd still have to fix the Buccaneers faction by making Bruisers give reputation to Exalted like they said they would.

[TheEmerged]

As for 60 reps, aren't they adding in another achievement for 60? Or maybe I mis-read that.

I can't hit mmo.champion here at work, but here's what I've found so far.

Quests

2500 Daily Quests Complete
Self explanatory, Complete 2500 Daily Quests.

Justly Rewarded
Make 30,000 gold from quest rewards.

General

Cataclysmically Delicious
Sample 100 different kinds of food.

Drown Your Sorrows
Drink 50 different types of beverages.

Petting Zoo
Obtain 100 companion pets.

Menagerie
Obtain 125 companion pets.

Thirty Tabards
Equip 30 unique tabards.

Vial of the Sands
Learn how to transform into a dragon and carry an ally.



Dungeons & Raids

Gurubashi Headhunter
Defeat Gub, Mortaxx, Kaolema, Mor'Lek, the Florawing Hive Queen, a Lost Offspring of Ghaz'Ranka, and the Gurubashi Master Chef in Zul'Gurub on Heroic difficulty.

It's Not Easy Being Green
Do not get hit by Bloodvenom, Pool of Acrid Tears, or Venomous Effusion in the High Priest Venoxis encounter in Zul'Gurub on Heroic difficulty.

Tunnel Vision
Defeat Halazzi in Zul'Aman on Heroic difficulty without killing any of his totems.

[AgentPaper]

Hey, what server was that that you guys were talking about a while ago, that had all the good RPing going on?

[Psyren]

@ Rep discussions: World of Grindcraft at its finest. :smalltongue:

For myself, I've already targeted a handful of choice titles/mounts that I want for each character, and the rest of the achievements can go to the Twisting Nether. Lots more games out there to play, I say. (I'm definitely not going after Insane, nor What A Long Strange Trip It's Been.)

For Svetas, I already know I want The Diplomat title (requires exalted Sporeggar, Timbermaw and Kurenai); Defender of a Shattered World would be nice too since it could apply to Draenor as well as Azeroth, so it'll give me something to work towards as I do heroics. Getting the former should also net me the Talbuk I want him to ride primarily.

[Karoht]

Well, I've mostly been after the easier 'low hanging fruit' so to speak, though I have done a few things for challenge factor or out of bordom. And after I hit 9000 I'm probably going to slow down quite a bit.

Next tier of content though will bring some more easily accessable achievements, and I'm probably going to try my hand at some PvP next tier, which should net me some more cheevos. The climb from 9k to 10k will probably slow but steady. 10k is my current 'end of Cataclysm' goal for now.

[Psyren]

Hey, what server was that that you guys were talking about a while ago, that had all the good RPing going on?

My new primary (Ravenholdt) has great RP. Just try not to pay attention to trade chat too closely. :smalltongue:

Earthen Ring is great too, and I've heard good things about Wyrmrest Accord. Moon Guard is... well, if sheer density is your aim, they've got it.


I suppose an example might help - my guild regularly hosts really nice in-character events. I think I mentioned our Love Is In The Air close-out gala in Stormwind Gardens in the last thread, and since then we've had history lessons delivered by one of the officers (She has the Assistant Professor Title; somewhat amusingly, she is a Fury Warrior :smalltongue:) as well as regular drills by the military branch members. And just last night, we had a very relaxing soirée in Dalaran, in the outdoor area behind Hero's Welcome. (We all got pretty sloshed, and our newest recruit actually upchucked. Hilarious!)

[The Glyphstone]

Moon Guard is... well, if sheer density is your aim, they've got it.

Is that what kids are calling it these days?:smallamused:

[GolemsVoice]

Actually, "What a Long, Strange Trip..." can be done if you stay focused around the holidays, it's not this much of a grindfest.

[TheEmerged]

RE: Achievements. There are certain ones I pursue, certain ones I adopt a "when I get around to it" approach, and then others I just write off. Vanity Pets? I pursue to a certain degree, but nowhere near all-out. Mounts? I pay a certain amount of lip service to it (I have about 1/3 of the Tourney mounts). I pursued Long Strange Trip at one point, but essentially abandoned it when I discovered that "Hard Knocks" was just not going to work out for me unless something changes.

Reps are something I like, but I've generally only *pursued* them when I have a reason to. Realizing I'm going to lose the chance to get it counts as a reason, hence my current push at Wintersaber (same reason I pursued Zandalar when Cata was coming). I'd have pursued Shen-howeveryouspellit if I'd thought it was realisitic.

This actually goes back to when I was playing EQ too -- I was bound and determined to see if I could ever get my high elf enchanter into the Ogre city without using an illusion spell. I don't want to talk about how many bone chips & lizard tails I turned in before I found out it was essentially impossible at the time.

[GolemsVoice]

It's the same for me, more or less. I'm not completely neglecting achievements, well, I've currently got about 9500 points, but I'm pursuing them whenever I feel like it. Sometimes I have these days where I farm factions for hours (or spend thousands of gold on them), or kill mobs to get that pet, and sometimes, I'm bored afters the first quest turn-in.

[term1nally s1ck]

I have 2 chars: My main, L58, Affliction Lock, being levelled fast. He's Inscription/Tailoring.

My secondary was originally made to hit the auction house with some traditional stockmarket playing. He's L20 prot pally, and he's got Enchanting and.....herbalism?

Cue me realising that herbalism is a terrible skill for someone who will see the outside world as little as he can while still levelling his skills.

What second skill is the best money earner? Engineering? Alchemy?

[AgentPaper]

I have 2 chars: My main, L58, Affliction Lock, being levelled fast. He's Inscription/Tailoring.

My secondary was originally made to hit the auction house with some traditional stockmarket playing. He's L20 prot pally, and he's got Enchanting and.....herbalism?

Cue me realising that herbalism is a terrible skill for someone who will see the outside world as little as he can while still levelling his skills.

What second skill is the best money earner? Engineering? Alchemy?

For stockmarketting, your best bet would probably be either Alchemy, for the transmute-then-resell, or jewelcrafting for the prospect-then-sell. Both can make a tidy profit, though it depends very heavily on the economy of your server. If you're already playing with the auction house with him then it shouldn't be hard to figure out which one could make you the most profit.

[term1nally s1ck]

I was leaning towards the jeweling anyway. I just don't see what's so useful about jewelcraft that makes materials so expensive....

[AgentPaper]

I was leaning towards the jeweling anyway. I just don't see what's so useful about jewelcraft that makes materials so expensive....

Well, for the early levels they're expensive simply because ores are used to level jewelcrafting, blacksmithing, and engineering, so there's a high demand while the supply is relatively low. Later on, everyone needs a constant supply of gems to socket into armor for endgame raiding.

[Karoht]

It's the same for me, more or less. I'm not completely neglecting achievements, well, I've currently got about 9500 points, but I'm pursuing them whenever I feel like it. Sometimes I have these days where I farm factions for hours (or spend thousands of gold on them), or kill mobs to get that pet, and sometimes, I'm bored afters the first quest turn-in.Yeah, I mostly have a 'when the mood takes me' attitude the majority of the time. Like the Goblin reps for example. I've finished 2 of 4, I'll get the other 4 when I get around to it.

[Zherog]

I have 2 chars: My main, L58, Affliction Lock, being levelled fast. He's Inscription/Tailoring.

My secondary was originally made to hit the auction house with some traditional stockmarket playing. He's L20 prot pally, and he's got Enchanting and.....herbalism?

Cue me realising that herbalism is a terrible skill for someone who will see the outside world as little as he can while still levelling his skills.

What second skill is the best money earner? Engineering? Alchemy?

So... where are you getting the herbs for your inscription? I assume the auction house. Yikes, that sounds really expensive to me...

[TheEmerged]

My jewelcrafter has done almost the entirety of his Level 80-81 grind by doing the fishing/cooking/JC dailies. I'm going to see if I can get him to 82 the same way. It'd take all of 32 days if I was doing all three every day (I've been doing the JC daily, but picking & choosing the other two).

Alchemy is a good choice, I certainly made plenty of money from in during WotLK era (I wasn't high enough leveled on the alchemist to profit during TBC era). I've mostly made my money off epic gem transmutes (which aren't in for Cata yet) in the past.

[Innis Cabal]

Because I'm just flying over it, has it ever been revealed just what the blue dragonflight is doing with these trees in Crystalsong Forest?

Crystal Song is where the majority of the Blue Flight was obliterated by Deathwing, their arcane magic crystallizing everything there. So they're just feeding off the insane levels of arcane magic that are running through out the forest.

[pffh]

Discovered something nifty on my druid today. While in flight form if you do /lie while as close to the ground as you can get you'll spread your wings and then remain perfectly still hovering slightly above the ground.

[GolemsVoice]

Crystal Song is where the majority of the Blue Flight was obliterated by Deathwing, their arcane magic crystallizing everything there. So they're just feeding off the insane levels of arcane magic that are running through out the forest.

Nifty. Is that from War of the Ancients?

[Innis Cabal]

Lands of Mystery.

[term1nally s1ck]

So... where are you getting the herbs for your inscription? I assume the auction house. Yikes, that sounds really expensive to me...

I can buy lowish-level herbs for pretty cheap (single digit gold for 20, often), and low-level herbs get me midnight ink. Midnight ink is used for many many minor glyphs, some of which regularly sell for upwards of 200 gold. (Fade is the big big seller, but there are others.)

He roughly breaks even on gold, in honesty (though he has the most insane stack of glyphs for sale you've ever seen. I think I was at about 4000 gold worth of glyphs for sale at 30-200 each, depending on the glyph), but the alt is earning more money than he knows what to do with. Disenchanting is a freaking insane breadwinner.

[Karoht]

Raid Night Report:
Yay ring upgrade. 2 shot the first 3 bosses in BWD, my first kick at 25-man raiding so far. We stopped after 4 pulls on Atramedes, people were falling asleep at the keyboards, as well as we were getting the chain DC's. I was also rather annoyed in BH-25. All 6 drops were cloth, doubles for priest, mage, and warlock, all PvP gear. Everyone in the raid was universally annoyed by this, even the clothies.

Tonight is first two bosses in BoT, possibly a third, then we continue on with BWD.

[Psyren]

I can buy lowish-level herbs for pretty cheap (single digit gold for 20, often), and low-level herbs get me midnight ink. Midnight ink is used for many many minor glyphs, some of which regularly sell for upwards of 200 gold. (Fade is the big big seller, but there are others.)

He roughly breaks even on gold, in honesty (though he has the most insane stack of glyphs for sale you've ever seen. I think I was at about 4000 gold worth of glyphs for sale at 30-200 each, depending on the glyph), but the alt is earning more money than he knows what to do with. Disenchanting is a freaking insane breadwinner.

Wow, my server economy is so different from this. Low-level herbs sell crazy high (I've seen Peacebloom go for 80s each, i.e. 16g a stack!) and my alts made a killing with those while training the skill normally. Meanwhile enchanting mats are so useless I don't hit the Disenchant button in dungeons even when I have the option. The highest I've ever seen a Large Prismatic go for is 2g; I could get more than that vendoring the damn item!

I'm not complaining of course - I'd rather silverleaf be pricey than shards - I just find it interesting how different servers are.

In other news, I forgot how much fun Durnholde was (the Thrall escape dungeon) but I noticed something weird. You know how the Bronze flight covers up non-humans so as not to freak out witnesses in the timeline that there are Draenei and Night Elves running around? It seems they forgot to make an exception for Worgen :smalltongue: This has resulted in a hilarious paradox in my groups where werewolves are running rampant through the fields of Hillsbrad and nobody is batting an eye. I've even had worgen who try to stay human as much as possible to minimize the history-screw - which of course only lasts until we get into combat.

Svet is bald as an egg in human form :smallfrown: combined with riding his elekk everywhere in the instance, and I looked like a hare-krishna on pilgrimage.

[Karoht]

Svet is bald as an egg in human form :smallfrown: combined with riding his elekk everywhere in the instance, and I looked like a hare-krishna on pilgrimage.

Obligatory Reference:
Bacon. It offends Paladins.

Some laugh, some need an explanation.

[Zherog]

Wow, my server economy is so different from this. Low-level herbs sell crazy high (I've seen Peacebloom go for 80s each, i.e. 16g a stack!) and my alts made a killing with those while training the skill normally. Meanwhile enchanting mats are so useless I don't hit the Disenchant button in dungeons even when I have the option. The highest I've ever seen a Large Prismatic go for is 2g; I could get more than that vendoring the damn item!

I'm not complaining of course - I'd rather silverleaf be pricey than shards - I just find it interesting how different servers are.

My server (Alliance side) sounds a lot like yours. I checked the price on a glyph of fade last night, and it currently goes for around 35g. I haven't checked the price of low-level herbs lately, but the last time I needed a little bit of lower level herbs to wrap up a skill range, I recall them going for more than 1g each (each herb, not each stack).

Low-level enchanting mats also don't sell well, so I don't DE in instances either. I don't know what BC and higher mats sell for yet, though. Maybe those sell for more.

*

In other news... I transferred my dwarf hunter over to the same server as my priest and shammy, and I've been leveling him since this weekend. He should hit 85 either tonight or tomorrow.

One nice side effect of removing ammo is that it's much easier to switch weapons. Twice this week I've had weapon upgrade drops. The first was a crossbow and the second was a bow. In the past, I would've completely ignored them because they weren't guns, even though they were both upgrades.

So now I have a flower-picking, bow-wielding dwarf. If you have a problem with that, his pet bear will be happy to rip your face off.

[The Linker]

In other news, I forgot how much fun Durnholde was (the Thrall escape dungeon) but I noticed something weird. You know how the Bronze flight covers up non-humans so as not to freak out witnesses in the timeline that there are Draenei and Night Elves running around? It seems they forgot to make an exception for Worgen :smalltongue: This has resulted in a hilarious paradox in my groups where werewolves are running rampant through the fields of Hillsbrad and nobody is batting an eye. I've even had worgen who try to stay human as much as possible to minimize the history-screw - which of course only lasts until we get into combat.

Well, as a Feral Druid, I've had to deal with that all along. Nope, no one bats an eye at the kitty running around shredding everything! Humans can totally do that! :smalltongue:

[Karoht]

Well, as a Feral Druid, I've had to deal with that all along. Nope, no one bats an eye at the kitty running around shredding everything! Humans can totally do that! :smalltongue:
At the time when Durnholde takes place, I doubt many people had even heard of Druids much less seen them. They would not have encountered the Night Elves yet, and they were said to be extremely rare among the High Elves, and typically mistaken for High Elf Rangers. So if they look one second and see a human, then another second later see a cat shredding away, it would probably just be writen off as panic induced crazyness after the battle is over and the person is telling the tale in the tavern.

Also, Thrall is escaping. Thrall is an orc. Orcs are in league with all kind of tricky demons and such, doncha-know? I would highly doubt that anyone wouldn't chalk it up to 'some orc mischief' or 'some orc magic' afoot. Again, if Varian Wrynn can blame the orcs for his people mysteriously slipping into coma's when there hasn't been an orc sighted for 200 kilometers in any given direction, other humans could write off a druid shapeshifting as something to do with the orcs at the time.

Besides, they're just peasants. Uneducated folk. It's not like they'll see a Worgen or a Druid and go 'continuity error!'

[The Linker]

That's not consistent with the whole 'human illusion' thing in the first place, then. Why turn anyone into a human? Why not have orcs and strange bull-men come bust this other orc out? If a human shifting into a feral cat or bear isn't weird enough to cause alarm, then really, nothing else is.

I understand the limitations behind this 'system'. Of course human illusion can't apply to cats. It's just a cool gimmick. I doubt there's anything to find in trying to analyze it besides a headache. :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Obligatory Reference:
Bacon. It offends Paladins.

Some laugh, some need an explanation.

I'm in the latter category :smallconfused:



Low-level enchanting mats also don't sell well, so I don't DE in instances either. I don't know what BC and higher mats sell for yet, though. Maybe those sell for more.


On mine, BC ones are junk as well. I'll check Wrath and Cata out when I come to them, but for now I roll Greed.

It's sometimes astounding to think how much the game has changed even in a short time. I recall when "Enchant Cloak - Subtlety" was all the rage for the threat reduction, and now you can't even give it away.


So now I have a flower-picking, bow-wielding dwarf. If you have a problem with that, his pet bear will be happy to rip your face off.

It's better than a flower-picking, unliving abomination :smalltongue:


That's not consistent with the whole 'human illusion' thing in the first place, then. Why turn anyone into a human? Why not have orcs and strange bull-men come bust this other orc out? If a human shifting into a feral cat or bear isn't weird enough to cause alarm, then really, nothing else is.

It's to fool Thrall too, I think. He can't have met the Tauren yet since he met them for the first time in Kalimdor, and if the Bronze Flight sent a bunch of "orcs" to get Thrall and he tried speaking Orcish only to be met with blank stares, he might get even more suspicious than he would being rescued by a bunch of oddly treacherous humans.

Do horde get turned into humans too in that instance? I've never run it with one.

[Zherog]

Yes, we do.

(Also, the flower-picking, bow-wielding dwarf quote is me, not Karoht...)

[term1nally s1ck]

Truesilver Rods don't exist on my server, as far as I can tell.

There's truesilver Ore, but no Truesilver Bars, and I've never seen a single Truesilver Rod.

Makes getting my echanting alt up.

[Zherog]

If you can find a blacksmith, he/she should be able to make it for you. It's a crafted item.

[Alarra]

Obligatory Reference:
Bacon. It offends Paladins.

Some laugh, some need an explanation.

I'd love an explanation to this. I'm thinking this may somewhat explain why the mage in our d&d game (who is having a feud with the paladin) kept making him smell like bacon.

[GolemsVoice]

It's also questionable just how many Durnholde survivors actually live to tell the tale, as you plow your way through the camp quite thoroughly. And Thrall and his girl get their memories wiped clean.

[Karoht]

I'm in the latter category :smallconfused:Bacon, it offends Paladins: The Explanation
Part 1: The Blue Post Menace
Back during the Wrath Beta, when Beacon of Light was new, a particular Blue Post called it Bacon of Light by accident. A few weeks later, same Blue poster called it Bacon of Light on purpose. Then said that he simply enjoyed calling it Bacon of Light, and around the office it was refered to as Bacon Healing.

Part 2: Attack of the Trolls
Enter the forum Troll. I don't remember the name exactly, but this guy trolled both MMO-Champion.com and the official forums, with the complaint that he is a Jewish Player who plays a Jewish Paladin, and asserted that the remark of 'Bacon of Light' or 'Bacon Healing' was offensive. When Blizzard gave him a curt response, he accused them of being anti-semetic for downplaying his concern.

On MMO-Champion.com, the thread took on a life of it's own. It eventually came to be known as the Legendary Bacon Thread, or Legendary Bacon Conversation or LBC (a play on the LHC). This thread reached a page count somewhere around 36000, in a very short time. On the official forums, it reached a few hundred before Blizzard turned on the post count limit and capped off the thread there.

Part 3: Revenge of the Community
On MMO-Champion.com, it became something of an achievement (back before achievements were implimented) to have posted in the Legendary Bacon Thread, prior to it being locked. And my goodness, the humor and counter trolling in there was great. Just google 'Bacon, it offends Paladins' and hit images. All the tropes were used to troll and counter troll in this thread. I read some 200 pages of this thread, because it was just so darned funny. The Legendary Bacon Thread was the reason I even signed up on MMO-Champion.com, just so I could post in it.

I don't know if the thread ever got deleted or not. It was arguably one of the best and worst examples of player QQ and counter trolling I have ever seen.

And in the end?
The Blue Poster quitely, in some corner of the forums, did in fact apologize for enjoying saying Bacon of Light instead of Beacon of Light.

Bacon, it offends Paladins: The Flamethrower
It exists. I think for a time there were T-Shirts on cafepress.com
There was talk of a major motion picture directed by George Lucas, but I haven't heard anything of the title or seen production stills yet, so I think they're still trying to lock down the script and line up Hayden Christiansen as the Troll.




It's to fool Thrall too, I think. He can't have met the Tauren yet since he met them for the first time in Kalimdor, and if the Bronze Flight sent a bunch of "orcs" to get Thrall and he tried speaking Orcish only to be met with blank stares, he might get even more suspicious than he would being rescued by a bunch of oddly treacherous humans.

Do horde get turned into humans too in that instance? I've never run it with one.Yes we do. Oddly treacherous humans in cahoots with an orc is more easily explainable/forgettable than big tauren that no one's seen in ages, or Trolls, or Elves with glowing green eyes, etc.
Also, Thrall wouldn't have been speaking Orcish, as he had yet not run into his own kind. But the point stands in that Orcs coming towards him (or Tauren, or anything else) would have probably confused him at at time where such confusion would not have been a good idea.

[Psyren]

*crunchy bacon*

I had no idea about any of that. I think I'll go look that up, it sounds... well, typical, actually.



Also, Thrall wouldn't have been speaking Orcish, as he had yet not run into his own kind.

Thrall did know Orcish even then - Blackmoor's original plan for him was to serve as a general and lead the other disaffected orc slaves against the alliance, by inspiring them to trust him, and then handing the kingdom over to Blackmoor once he had conquered it. He couldn't have done that without speaking their language.

Humans breaking him out would have been more believable than orcs for a different reason - Thrall wouldn't have expected any orcs to overcome the lethargy, but he did know that (due to Sergeant) at least some humans felt sympathy for his situation.

Check Blackmoor's wiki entry for the whole story.

[Karoht]

Thrall did know Orcish even then - Blackmoor's original plan for him was to serve as a general and lead the other disaffected orc slaves against the alliance, by inspiring them to trust him, and then handing the kingdom over to Blackmoor once he had conquered it. He couldn't have done that without speaking their language.

Humans breaking him out would have been more believable than orcs for a different reason - Thrall wouldn't have expected any orcs to overcome the lethargy, but he did know that (due to Sergeant) at least some humans felt sympathy for his situation.

Check Blackmoor's wiki entry for the whole story.
Or I could just read Lord of the Clans. Oh wait, already did that. He learned some orcish after he broke out, because he then went and saw the actual camps. He spoke with a few orcs there, then met up with Grom Hellscream. And when he went to meet with Grom he barely knew enough orcish to have a conversation with him. Grom spoke common.
So either the book has a continuity error (which it can't as it's the only source of lore for that time period other than Caverns of Time), or the wiki is wrong. Or my memory is extremely poor.
As I'm behind a firewall at work, I can't check the wiki. Are you just assuming the bolded part, or is that actually stated in the wiki? Because my next question becomes, how did he teach him orcish exactly? Blackmore had no one at hand who could speak it, orcs didn't bring things like books with them through the Dark Portal.

As for controlling the orcs, he had them all in the internment camps, hearing common barked at them day in day out for nearly 20 years. They would have picked up enough common by that point. All that would have been necessary would be for Thrall to show up, speak that language that they are now all familiar enough to understand, and let Thrall lead them.
Granted, it isn't a good plan (the whole plan with Thrall and leading an Orc army was doomed to failure from the get go) but it would have worked. Ironically, it would have been incredibly similar to Gul'dan and the Shadow Council playing puppet master with Warchief Blackhand had this taken place.

[The Linker]

Indeed, Thrall did not know Orcish at all until he meets Grom -- according to Lord of the Clans, anyway. I remember especially well, for my favorite part of the story is when an orc just newly arriving to the camp sees Thrall having a practice tussle with some of the human guards, and charges at him, fighting off guards on the way with a savage intensity, trying to get to Thrall, before he's taken down and killed. He yells something angrily in Orcish before he dies. Repeatedly, in fact.

It's not until Thrall meets Grom that he finds out what the orc said over and over was 'Run! Save yourself! I'll hold them off!'


Humans breaking him out would have been more believable than orcs for a different reason - Thrall wouldn't have expected any orcs to overcome the lethargy, but he did know that (due to Sergeant) at least some humans felt sympathy for his situation.

I don't believe Thrall really knew about the lethargy until he escaped and was captured by another camp and found dozens of orcs guarded by like six guards.

[Psyren]

It wouldn't be the first retcon they made, but in the absence of counterevidence I'll defer to your take. *shrug*

My basic point still stands - he would have been less surprised at humans busting him out long before other orcs at that point in time. And if Blackmoor expected a Common-speaking Orc to rally them under his banner, well that's one more bit of lore-foolishness I can be glad not to have perused in detail, much less paid for the privilege.

[The Linker]

Orrrrr maybe it provides some extra details, or provides context not found in a simple summary. You don't have to think the worst and dismiss it as lorelol just because you don't understand a character's motivations. He was an arrogant drunk who treated everyone who contradicted him with contempt, or worse. He formulated a shaky plan that would result in untold glory for him, if successful. OOP LORELOL.

Besides, I don't remember quite which orcs he expected Thrall to lead, but he was thinking of the ones in the internment camps, then yeah, there's no reason for Thrall not to be able to lead them.

[otakuryoga]

Bacon, it offends Paladins: The Explanation
Part 1: The Blue Post Menace
Back during the Wrath Beta, when Beacon of Light was new, a particular Blue Post called it Bacon of Light by accident. A few weeks later, same Blue poster called it Bacon of Light on purpose. Then said that he simply enjoyed calling it Bacon of Light, and around the office it was refered to as Bacon Healing.

Part 2: Attack of the Trolls
Enter the forum Troll. I don't remember the name exactly, but this guy trolled both MMO-Champion.com and the official forums, with the complaint that he is a Jewish Player who plays a Jewish Paladin, and asserted that the remark of 'Bacon of Light' or 'Bacon Healing' was offensive. When Blizzard gave him a curt response, he accused them of being anti-semetic for downplaying his concern.

On MMO-Champion.com, the thread took on a life of it's own. It eventually came to be known as the Legendary Bacon Thread, or Legendary Bacon Conversation or LBC (a play on the LHC). This thread reached a page count somewhere around 36000, in a very short time. On the official forums, it reached a few hundred before Blizzard turned on the post count limit and capped off the thread there.

Part 3: Revenge of the Community
On MMO-Champion.com, it became something of an achievement (back before achievements were implimented) to have posted in the Legendary Bacon Thread, prior to it being locked. And my goodness, the humor and counter trolling in there was great. Just google 'Bacon, it offends Paladins' and hit images. All the tropes were used to troll and counter troll in this thread. I read some 200 pages of this thread, because it was just so darned funny. The Legendary Bacon Thread was the reason I even signed up on MMO-Champion.com, just so I could post in it.

I don't know if the thread ever got deleted or not. It was arguably one of the best and worst examples of player QQ and counter trolling I have ever seen.

And in the end?
The Blue Poster quitely, in some corner of the forums, did in fact apologize for enjoying saying Bacon of Light instead of Beacon of Light.

Bacon, it offends Paladins: The Flamethrower
It exists. I think for a time there were T-Shirts on cafepress.com
There was talk of a major motion picture directed by George Lucas, but I haven't heard anything of the title or seen production stills yet, so I think they're still trying to lock down the script and line up Hayden Christiansen as the Troll.



Yes we do. Oddly treacherous humans in cahoots with an orc is more easily explainable/forgettable than big tauren that no one's seen in ages, or Trolls, or Elves with glowing green eyes, etc.
Also, Thrall wouldn't have been speaking Orcish, as he had yet not run into his own kind. But the point stands in that Orcs coming towards him (or Tauren, or anything else) would have probably confused him at at time where such confusion would not have been a good idea.


heh sounds like the good old "shamans can slow time" thread from EQ days

[Karoht]

Orrrrr maybe it provides some extra details, or provides context not found in a simple summary. You don't have to think the worst and dismiss it as lorelol just because you don't understand a character's motivations. He was an arrogant drunk who treated everyone who contradicted him with contempt, or worse. He formulated a shaky plan that would result in untold glory for him, if successful. OOP LORELOL.

Besides, I don't remember quite which orcs he expected Thrall to lead, but he was thinking of the ones in the internment camps, then yeah, there's no reason for Thrall not to be able to lead them.Seconded. Blackmore really wasn't a bright fellow, he was just bright enough to even see the opportunity presented to him when he found Thrall as a baby. He really didn't think it through at all, and had to quite literally order one of his servants to have his wife nurse Thrall in order for him to survive.


Heck, look at Thrall's escape. Blackmore thought it was entirely impossible for Thrall to escape. Thrall had just got over a nearly mortal wound. Thrall didn't have friends, he didn't really have contact with anyone. Blackmore entirely missed that Thrall had made friends with Taretha, and he never suspected for a second that a human, any human, would help him escape.
Also, Blackmore's plan didn't really come to fruition. He may have had some kind of contingency to teach Thrall orcish somehow. Or it may never have crossed his mind. It's entirely likely that he would have eventually escalated the Gladitorial combat to involve other Orcs, maybe even giving Thrall a teammate or two, and eliminating some of the more fiesty orcs left in the camps, or galvanizing them to Thrall as his lieutenants. Thrall would have made friends with them, they probably would have taught him orcish. Thrall's contact with them would have to have been carefully monitored and limited as a result, not difficult for Blackmore to arrange. And if things didn't go well or these friends got out of line, he would simply throw them in the arena against Thrall one on one, and Thrall would have likely defeated them.


As for a common speaking Thrall leading the orcs of the internment camps, it makes perfect sense seeing as they were taking orders from humans to begin with while at said camps.
It isn't Lorelol at all. The book existed before WoW did, wow didn't contradict the book, there is no retcon here. As for the wiki, please understand that the wiki is not edited by Blizzard therefore the wiki is occasionally wrong in terms of lore.


Lastly, Lord of the Clans is quite literally the best Warcraft novel, with Arthas and Rise of the Horde fighting fiercely for second place. Worth every penny.

[Psyren]

"Best Warcraft novel" still has the same ring to me as "best snowboarder in Mexico." Though at least it didn't have Rhonin (I hope?) I honestly don't care enough to belabor the point further anyway.

Stormwind was oddly empty the last two days and a number of prominent guild-members were missing. I was trying to think why before I remembered that Dragon Age 2 just dropped.

[Karoht]

Lord of the Clans is also an amazing piece of storytelling. As is Rise of the Horde. Though I must say I thoroughly enjoyed reading The Last Guardian (the tale of Mediehv and Khadgar) and Of Blood and Honor.

As for Rhonin, there is an incredible amount of Fan-dumb surrounding the guy.
No, he did not teach Illidan magic. He gave him some pointers which didn't really help anyway.
No, he did not have anything to do with Malfurion being a druid. Cenarius had been teaching him for many years prior.
No, he did not summon a raptor army.
And Krasus/Korialstraz, while also being a decent character from time to time (though shoehorned into stories where he himself was not really needed) was more of a Marty Stu than Rhonin ever could be.
I will admit, I didn't really like any of the works of Knaak. Stormrage was tolerable but suffered from the same repetiton that War of the Ancients suffered. Day of the Dragon and Night of the Dragon were terrible, but I did enjoy the idea of the devotion and dedication that Korialstraz has towards his mate Alexstraza, which was the books only saving grace.

On the note of the War of the Ancients, just last night I was in Stonetalon Mountains at some ruins (Archeology). There were some night elf ghosts, and they were talking about how Xavius was going to summon Sargeras in Zin-Azshari, and how the Highborne really admired him. It was an interesting touch, off in a corner, which struck me as a bit odd. I couldn't find a questline that dealt with these guys, but I only had 5 minutes to investigate before my raid. I also discovered one of the Old God minions and some tentacles, but I didn't see a quest out there. Things to look into.

[TheEmerged]

So, I got to run part of Black Temple last night. The best part was when a few of the guild's long-term raiders showed up and explained one of the fights... which we then completed so quickly said long-term raiders initially thought the fight had bugged. Yeah, I'm going to have to try duoing Kara at some point it seems :) I managed to get one of the TBC-era patterns I'd never had a chance on.

Most amusing part? The first boss I was there for, the one that bubbles. He was doing so little damage half of us were tabbed out trying to figure out how to break the bubble (this was before the long-term raiders signed in) since none of us had done the fight before.

[Karoht]

So, I got to run part of Black Temple last night...

Most amusing part? The first boss I was there for, the one that bubbles. He was doing so little damage half of us were tabbed out trying to figure out how to break the bubble (this was before the long-term raiders signed in) since none of us had done the fight before.

That kind of mechanic and the cores mechanic in Serpent Shrine Cavern was a lot of fun, I hope they bring it back one of these days. Same with the weapons inside of Tempest Keep during the Kael'thas fight. But oh well.


In other words, I lead my first guild raid last night, in Bastion of Twilight. Cleared the first two bosses, then hit Throne of the Four Winds and knocked out the Council fight in two pulls. Highly successful first attempt in raid leading.

[Zherog]

Ran Stonecore on my hunter last night. At the time, I was still 84. And I came in second on the DPS charts with 5200. Wow. Part of the reason it was so high, I suspect, is because we had a failrogue. He came in 4th on the DPS chart, and he was closer to the healer than to the next-highest DPS.

Dinged 85 shortly afterward, while doing the quests in Stormwind that lead to Twilight Highland. That series was very cool -- much better than what's available horde side, in my opinion.

With the hunter now at 85, I intend to run some dailies with him as well as quest in Twilight and Hyjal (for cash and rep), but mostly I'll be switching back to my priest and shammy now, on the Alliance side.

I'm also looking to get back to my rogue on the Horde side. I think I need to hit the lottery, so I can quit my job and spend all day playing WoW instead...

[Psyren]

I'm also looking to get back to my rogue on the Horde side. I think I need to hit the lottery, so I can quit my job and spend all day playing WoW instead...

No, don't!

You'll be stuck with nothing to do during Tuesday maintenance :smalltongue:

[Zherog]

No, don't!

You'll be stuck with nothing to do during Tuesday maintenance :smalltongue:

Three letters: nap!

[TheEmerged]

Two sets of three words for me: "Plants vs Zombies" (which I only recently discovered) or "The Sims 3" :smallsmile:

In other news, scored the Stump of Time for my main (replaced a 305 item with a 359 item). I wish it had at least some Int on it, but now I can go whole-hog on the Wintersaber without guilt.

[Karoht]

Wiped for 2 hours on Atramedes in my 10 man group I was leading. Mostly difficulties with regards to Gong timing. Ugh. This after the excellent success of the previous night.
The good news though, is that we were all having a good time. No one was mad or upset, we just kept trying, tried out other tricks, stayed positive, and kept on going. Truth be told I think our DPS was too low, due to too many early deaths. Our healing was there, tank was doing his job though, the DPS that survived was high.

[Alarra]

I'm going to be in my first raid tomorrow night. Frankly, I find it a little crazy that I've been playing this game for 7 years and have never been in a raid. But, yay, finally.

Apparently it's very laid back, as they haven't even decided which raid we're doing yet, just going to 'go with the flow' or some nonsense. I guess they're thinking either Blackwing Descent or Bastion of Twilight, plus Baradin Hold.

Anyway, I am very very nervous. I think it's worse because they've asked me to be holy and I've never played holy, well, not in a couple years anyway, certainly not in wotlk or cata. So I've just spent the last day reading about it. But yeah, I feel like I'm giving myself an ulcer worrying about it, my stomach is all in knots and I'm all shaky and stuff and I still have another whole day until I even go. gah!

But yeah, umm...any advice?

[The Linker]

It's your first raid, and they're having you heal? In a spec you haven't played in years!?

I'd definitely be nervous! :smalleek:

Er um wait you wanted help I guess

I can't think of anything besides remain calm, remember that every fresh raid group dies a lot, and prepare for lots of people telling you what to do with the mindset that they're not trying to be mean.

And good luck! :smalltongue:

[pffh]

Do a couple of heroics with no cc to get used to some stress healing. The first pulls in stonecore should be good as long as you don't interrupt the earthshaper so you're forced to aoe heal more.

Other then that just relax and have fun. I find that I heal best when I'm very relaxed in fact I can enter a sort of zen state of mind where every heal lands in the right place at the right time without me really paying attention when I'm REALLY relaxed. But when I'm stressed or excited my healing goes down the drain so yeah relax and remember it's not the end of the world if you cause a wipe god knows I've caused a fair amount :smallwink:

[Karoht]

I'm going to be in my first raid tomorrow night. Frankly, I find it a little crazy that I've been playing this game for 7 years and have never been in a raid. But, yay, finally.

Apparently it's very laid back, as they haven't even decided which raid we're doing yet, just going to 'go with the flow' or some nonsense. I guess they're thinking either Blackwing Descent or Bastion of Twilight, plus Baradin Hold.

Anyway, I am very very nervous. I think it's worse because they've asked me to be holy and I've never played holy, well, not in a couple years anyway, certainly not in wotlk or cata. So I've just spent the last day reading about it. But yeah, I feel like I'm giving myself an ulcer worrying about it, my stomach is all in knots and I'm all shaky and stuff and I still have another whole day until I even go. gah!

But yeah, umm...any advice?

Run a regular dungeon followed by a heroic to get a good gage on how Holy handles and what your capabilities are. I recommend the regular followed by a heroic for purposes of contrast.

For BH, you really just have to 'pitch in' to heal it once Meteor Slash happens, rather than be constantly healing anyone. There's plenty of time between slashes, so don't panic. Also, if your mana starts to dwindle, just heal your side and support the tanks rather than healing both sides. And if you're going to roll renew or pop a shield on a tank, just make sure it's the tank that is actually taking damage from the boss at the time. I just keep the boss targeted to keep track, and swap my Lifeblooms when the tanks swap. Eventually you'll get into a rhythm.

For Bastion of Twilight and BWD... those places is considerably more intense for healing than BH. What you want to do for just about any boss in there is get an idea of when you need to spam for raw output, and when you can just coast.

Druid Example:
Elementium Monstrocity-When the raid starts to take big damage from things like Rising Flame, it's AoE heal spam time. Swiftmend/Efflorescence and Wild Growth, with Rejuv and Regrowth spot heals. When the action dies down a bit, it's Nourish to top up, leave Lifebloom on a tank, and try to coast.
Magmaw-When Magmaw is up, spam aoe's, don't be afraid to use quicker cast stuff, but keep an eye to your mana bar. When he is pinned down, coast and try to regain mana, use the time to cast as little as possible.

It's a generalized example, but convert that to your equivilant heals as Holy and the idea stands about the same.

[Alarra]

I'd intended to practice on heroics, but hadn't yet, and through a fluke of fate I ended up being pulled into a raid tonight, err, last night now, instead. Well, no, in addition, as it sounds like I'll still be going tonight too. Though tonight's is with a different team than last night's.

It went....okay. We started with conclave of the wind, and I got to be disc (thank god). On account of my having never been in a raid before, they went easy on me and stuck me and a dps on Rohash and had us stay there the entire time, so I didn't have to deal with any of that switching nonsense until the very end when everyone convened at Nezir to finish him off. I think we wiped 4 or 5 times before we finished and I'm happy to say that only once was it related to our platform. Once we even finished off our guy after everyone else died and just stood around waiting for everyone to come back. But yes, it went rather well. Well, except that my vuhdo apparently failed at loading the correct profile twice, I really don't know what I did wrong there, and so I had my holy keybinds up while playing disc, which sucked as then penance and pain suppression weren't bound or even on a action bar. But I fixed that third pull, kinda. We didn't do Al'Akir, just the first 3.

Then we did BH, which was okay too. I was in holy here and kind of floundered around a fair bit. It shouldn't be -that hard- to remember to keep a chakra state up, should it? :smallsigh: But we didn't really have any trouble anyway, though I did do the worst of the 3 healers though. Not really surprised.

Then we did Magmaw, which took I don't even remember how many tries, 6 or 7, maybe? I floundered through holy again, but think I did okay, even if I forgot to ever set out a lightwell or use HW: Sanctuary. Sometimes it was people messing up with the lava parasites, mostly it was because the tank would end up taking too much damage. We didn't have anyone actually trying to focus on them. They eventually let me go disc again and take care of him, which made me happy and comfortable again. The second try after this switch (the first we screwed up parasites again), we rocked, beat him down very quickly and didn't lose anyone.

So, today I'm going to try to practice with holy more, in hopes that I can be at least moderately comfortable with the spec before BoT tonight, though now, having been thrown into it already, I'm considerably less nervous than before. ie, still knots in stomach, hands not actively shaking anymore. :smallredface:

[Fleeing Coward]

I'm getting sick of my realm and am seriously considering a realm change or at least a faction change and I'm wondering if someone could give me some advice and answer a few questions for me here.

I'm a pally with ilvl 356 tank set and a ilvl 351 holy set so gear shouldn't be a problem for raiding but I have very little experience actually raiding (I've downed Halfus once and Argaloth a couple of times along with a milllion wipes as the raiding guild I joined started falling apart virtually the very next day after I joined). Is this going to affect my chances of getting into a decent guild or will I be stuck with having to choose between guilds that don't really have a raid team?

I've checked the rankings on wowprogress and the top realms in the Oceanic region are all pvp realms. Just how much world pvp is on pvp servers? I have virtually no interest in pvp so I was wondering if I choose to transfer should I be looking purely at pve realms even though none of them seem to be doing much better than Nagrand?

If I do decide to transfer, how should I go about looking for a guild? I really don't mind even transferring to a US realm if I could get a guild that raids at times I can make so should I use the official wow forums as a starting point?

Finally, I love raiding 10 mans and have only had bad experiences with 25 man so I assume I shouldn't even look into 25 man guilds as they're probably not interested in raiding 10 man? There are plenty of 25 man guilds recruiting on my server yet almost no 10 mans, is 25 really that much easier than 10 man?

[Alarra]

Come to our server! We're currently building a raid team that's in need of...only a second tank actually, now that I think of it. I think that will make the 6th raid team our guild is currently fielding and there seem to be ample opportunities to fill in on the more established raids as well, at least, I was able to fill in on two different teams this weekend.

Course, not knowing where you are (Oh, Australia...huh, didn't know that), anyway, I don't know what times you're available. The raids I was doing went from 9 to midnight and 7 to 11 US Eastern time. I don't know what time our new raid is going to be. We do have a group that's forming a raid to start at 11pm, and Zeb and I frequently play in the middle of the night due to our schedules.

I know nothing about 25 mans, currently all of our raid teams are 10 man, though I think people have been talking about trying to do some 25 at some point as well, no idea about that though.

This guild is my only experience with a raiding guild, but they certainly aren't ones to hold previous guild issues against the individual player, especially if you can explain what happened. I mean, in the time I've been with them I've only seen two applications denied, one because they failed to fill out the app correctly and then never responded when asked for more information and clarifications and one because the applicant had been in something like 6 guilds in the past 4 months, with no good explanation for the guild hopping. Anyway, we're Circle of Fear on Argent Dawn, horde. Fun, kinda crazy, laid back group of people. =)

The wow forums might be a good place to look as well, I prefer to play with people I know though. :smallsmile:

edit: Oh, and in other news... I rocked my second raid! *does happy dance* It was Bastion of Twilight. They let me stay disc, I was surprised since they'd made noises that they needed me holy. Anyway, we didn't beat the council, but consistently got a good way into the third phase before getting overwhelmed. But anyway, at the end of the night I had the most healing, most dispells, highest HPS, least deaths, least damage taken and never once went oom. :smallbiggrin:

[Nightson]

I was about to say to come to our server! :o

We're on Proudmoore Horde, we raid Saturday and Sunday, 6-9 PST, we're a pretty laid back and relaxed group. We just need another tank and a plate wearer is preferred because right now we have nobody who uses plate.

The only requirement for joining is to always strive to improve. :)

[The Glyphstone]

The wow forums might be a good place to look as well, I prefer to play with people I know though. :smallsmile:


Derp what.

No, avoid the WoW forums at all costs if you value the tattered remains of your sanity.

[JediSoth]

My guild (Alpha Pug) on Mok'Nathal does regularly scheduled raids (at least, going by our calendar). I've not participated in any of them as my highest character is only 45, so I don't know how good they are. They're a pretty friendly group, though. For the most part, I've felt no pressure to hurry up and level so I can raid with them.

Not that I have time to raid, anyway; I can only average about an hour a night during the week. If WoW raids have any relation to EverQuest raids, you can't even pull everyone together and get set up in an hour.

[Psyren]

I know I'm months late to the party but the Wrath quests are really awesome. I finished up the Howling Fjord and moved on to Coldarra (I try to do the quest hubs tied to the area's instance so that when my queue pops, I'll have guaranteed lootz besides the boss drops.)

But I digress. I did that Wyrmskull Village quest, the one that sent me to the spirit world to reveal the past of the Vrykul... where I ran into none other than Arthas. And the bastard pwned me in no time, twice.

There is just something about being personally ganked by the Lich King himself that makes you want to enlist for the Scourge right then and there. :smallbiggrin: Beats the hell out of the Horde doing it anyway!

[Karoht]

edit: Oh, and in other news... I rocked my second raid! *does happy dance* It was Bastion of Twilight. They let me stay disc, I was surprised since they'd made noises that they needed me holy. Anyway, we didn't beat the council, but consistently got a good way into the third phase before getting overwhelmed. But anyway, at the end of the night I had the most healing, most dispells, highest HPS, least deaths, least damage taken and never once went oom. :smallbiggrin:Good, that should be enough evidence to convince them that you should stay Disc rather than Holy.

@Psyren
If you haven't made it out there yet, Icecrown (the zone) has a series of quests devoted to the Lich King and his past. It's rad.



Finally, I love raiding 10 mans and have only had bad experiences with 25 man so I assume I shouldn't even look into 25 man guilds as they're probably not interested in raiding 10 man? There are plenty of 25 man guilds recruiting on my server yet almost no 10 mans, is 25 really that much easier than 10 man?The few 25 man raids I've done as of Cata, I can't say they are easier per se. But there are some things which do make them easier.

-Healing-Picking up an extra healer isn't as massive a DPS loss in 25 man as it is in 10 man. We run with 6 healers, some fights they recommend 7-8. Dropping a DPS for a healer in 10 man is not recommended.
-Deaths-You get 3 battle res's instead of 1. This is actually pretty signifigant. But moreover, as long as you don't lose tanks and healers, losing a DPS isn't that big a deal. Even if you lost 5 of them, you can get back all but 2, and the loss of 2 DPS isn't going to stall the encounter. In 10 man, you lose anyone and you will feel it sooner or later.
-Composition-10 man is much more composition sensitive. Don't have a Shaman or Mage? No Bloodlust. Don't have a Druid? No Battle Res. Don't have a Priest? Probably not getting a Fortitude buff. No Mage? No mana buff. Etc. Now granted, there are workarounds (Warlock can give the Fort Buff IF they aren't Demonology, or a Warrior can IF there is something else already giving out their damage buff), but in a 10 man group you have less room to play with. In a 10 man group you have less room to play with in order to get the maximum benefit of overlapping buffs. And every time they give a buff to another class the word Homoginization gets thrown around.

Overall, 10 man just has less room for error in some respects. Notice how I say some? A bad move in a 25 man can wipe the raid, or possibly put healers in a situation where they have to heal 25 people through a metric tonne of damage, where in 10 man that same mistake only applies to 5-10 people. In 25 man, DPS might have less room to spread out. Another example where 25 man is actually quite a bit harder would be back in ICC. 3 Valkyr aren't that much harder to deal with, as long as they go the same direction and everyone stacks properly. Otherwise it becomes signifigantly harder to deal with. And on the Heroic version of that fight, once the Valkyr has been dealt with, the fly up into the air and start draining health on people. 1 drain is much easier to heal through than 3.

[Alarra]

Derp what.

No, avoid the WoW forums at all costs if you value the tattered remains of your sanity.
I said 'might'. I really have no idea if the wow forums would be helpful for finding a guild, I always just join with friends. :smallsmile:

[GolemsVoice]

A question for you all:

In Vanilla, and BC to some extend, the zones were much less streamlined. There were areas you'd never see, and caves that lie so far out of the way that you won't ever visit them unless you go exploring. Many of these "hidden" areas contained extra quests or other things. So if you wanted to do and see everything, you either knew where to go, or went exploring.
Starting with BC and Wrath, you could very well expect to have seen everything by the time you finish a zone.

On the one hand, the old zones were much more interesting in that they rewarded a determined explorer, but many old zones required you to criss-cross the land (without a flying mount, no less!) or slay your way through dozens of enemies just to get that one quest. Newer zones are much more comfortable, sending you from hub to hub and in the process showing you all there is to see.

My question is: do you prefer the old zones, or are you more a fan of comfortable, but less to explore by yourself?

[Zherog]

I very much prefer the (in my opinion, of course) vastly improved organization and flow of the redesigned old-world zones.

[Karoht]

A question for you all:

In Vanilla, and BC to some extend, the zones were much less streamlined. There were areas you'd never see, and caves that lie so far out of the way that you won't ever visit them unless you go exploring. Many of these "hidden" areas contained extra quests or other things. So if you wanted to do and see everything, you either knew where to go, or went exploring.
Starting with BC and Wrath, you could very well expect to have seen everything by the time you finish a zone.

On the one hand, the old zones were much more interesting in that they rewarded a determined explorer, but many old zones required you to criss-cross the land (without a flying mount, no less!) or slay your way through dozens of enemies just to get that one quest. Newer zones are much more comfortable, sending you from hub to hub and in the process showing you all there is to see.

My question is: do you prefer the old zones, or are you more a fan of comfortable, but less to explore by yourself?

I didn't mind exploring back then, but the only reward I got for my trouble was usually another quest, one which would usually take me WAY out of my way rather than being all that relevant to the zone.
Still did it, mind you. They could have been better designed, or they could have had more lore relevance rather than what they usually had. Though there were some gems if you went out and explored.

[Psyren]

I like that the streamlined quest hubs show you how to get around; it's easy to get spoiled by easy access to an epic mount or flyer and forget how daunting that task can be in such a vast world. I remember how soul-crushingly boring the initial run from, say, Razor Hill to the Crossroads was on my fledgling horde; now, an easily accessible quest lets you literally ride shotgun on a kodo caravan, letting you relax and play a minigame all the way there at nearly double-speed.

As far as I'm concerned, that is objectively better than just hoofing it, no matter what sorts of things can be found off the beaten path for you to gawk at.

Besides, there is already plenty of incentive to explore in this game - hunting down crafting mates, archaeology, exploration achievements, exotic pets for hunters, rarespawns or even just for the hell of it in such a beautiful world. The quests don't have to bandwagon by hiding themselves in forgotten crannies as well.

[JediSoth]

I still haven't been able to get any of my characters trained in Archaeology. Is there a level requirement? It was the first thing I tried to train when my goblin finally got to Orgimmar, but the trainer didn't offer it to me.

[TheEmerged]

Derp what.

No, avoid the WoW forums at all costs if you value the tattered remains of your sanity.

NO. NO! NO!

Glyphstone is correct here. Stay as far away from the official forums as you can. Then find a way to get further away :smallredface:

Weekend Report. Exalted rep #45 was the Wintersaber trainers. Now back to grinding Archaeology :smallyuk:

My jeweler continue his path through the Agility gems I feel most likely to need right now. The healer-types (with +spirit and/or +haste) will be next. I'm definitely going to follow this "nothing but the 3 dailies" thing at least through 82nd level.

I've maxed the scribe out to 525 now. I got every point between whenever whenever-I-learned Forged Documents and 520 from that one pattern. I capped it with the feral relic :smallbiggrin: I also bought the other two heirloom capes this weekend (the spellpower & +str ones). At 80, the +str cape is not as good as the one the paladin earned before Cata hit -- I'll be curious to see if that's true at 81.

RE: Old World vs New World questing. I think there needs to be a bit of both. The majority of the quests should be in the hubs. It should be necessary to do some cursory hunting to get the zone quest achievement. There should be a quest or two per zone that has to be found out-of-the-way.

For example, I like that there are a few quests (I remember them mostly in Uldum) that you get when you kill mobs you aren't otherwise directed to kill. There needs to be more of these.

In particular, I think there should be some quests where you only see the "!" after talking to the mob/follow the dialog path/etc, and/or have inobvious prereqs. Perhaps after doing Kodo Roundup (http://www.wowhead.com/quest=5561), at 85 you can talk to Smeed about whether or not he's ever tried using the Kombobulator on a sentient...

[The Linker]

The few 25 man raids I've done as of Cata, I can't say they are easier per se. But there are some things which do make them easier.

-Healing-Picking up an extra healer isn't as massive a DPS loss in 25 man as it is in 10 man. We run with 6 healers, some fights they recommend 7-8. Dropping a DPS for a healer in 10 man is not recommended.
-Deaths-You get 3 battle res's instead of 1. This is actually pretty signifigant. But moreover, as long as you don't lose tanks and healers, losing a DPS isn't that big a deal. Even if you lost 5 of them, you can get back all but 2, and the loss of 2 DPS isn't going to stall the encounter. In 10 man, you lose anyone and you will feel it sooner or later.
-Composition-10 man is much more composition sensitive. Don't have a Shaman or Mage? No Bloodlust. Don't have a Druid? No Battle Res. Don't have a Priest? Probably not getting a Fortitude buff. No Mage? No mana buff. Etc. Now granted, there are workarounds (Warlock can give the Fort Buff IF they aren't Demonology, or a Warrior can IF there is something else already giving out their damage buff), but in a 10 man group you have less room to play with. In a 10 man group you have less room to play with in order to get the maximum benefit of overlapping buffs. And every time they give a buff to another class the word Homoginization gets thrown around.

Overall, 10 man just has less room for error in some respects. Notice how I say some? A bad move in a 25 man can wipe the raid, or possibly put healers in a situation where they have to heal 25 people through a metric tonne of damage, where in 10 man that same mistake only applies to 5-10 people. In 25 man, DPS might have less room to spread out. Another example where 25 man is actually quite a bit harder would be back in ICC. 3 Valkyr aren't that much harder to deal with, as long as they go the same direction and everyone stacks properly. Otherwise it becomes signifigantly harder to deal with. And on the Heroic version of that fight, once the Valkyr has been dealt with, the fly up into the air and start draining health on people. 1 drain is much easier to heal through than 3.

I've heard Blizzard say, though, that 25-man is supposed to be of equal difficulty to 10-man in Cata (as opposed to 25 having increased difficulty in WotLK) -- hence the shared lockout, loot, and achievement qualifications. They give proportionally more gear only because of the increased difficulty in getting 25 folks together.

Are you finding the same difference in difficulty between 10 and 25 in WotLK and Cata?

[GolemsVoice]

I prefer the improved organization of the new zones, too. It becomes especially apparent when you do the revamped old zones, like Stranglethorn.

But sometimes I wish there was a little bit more mystery in it, something that you had to explore for yourself. But mabye that's just my nostalgia bugging me.

[Fleeing Coward]

Well, turns out US times weren't as bad as I thought so depending on times I guess moving to a US server is an option. (7PM EST = 11AM my time next day, 7PM PST = 2PM my time next day).

I'm currently attending uni on Monday, Wednesday and Thursday which is Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday night in the US so if anyone knows a guild that doesn't raid during those days, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Assuming I can't find any guild here, where should I go looking then since everyone seems to agree that I should avoid the official forums like the plague?

@Alarra: Your guild seems nice and the late night raid in particular interests me since an 11pm start means I can probably attend Sunday your time raids so the only raids I can't attend would be ones scheduled for on Tuesday or Wednesday. The only thing that worries me is that you're on an RP server. While I enjoy the occasional bit of RP, it's definately not one of the main reasons I play the game.

@Nightson: Thanks for the offer but since I can't attend your Sunday raids as I'll be in the middle of a lecture, I'm probably not the right person for your guild.

@JediSoth: Your guilds on the right sort of server and looks like your guild needs a holy paly but since they raid 4 nights a week starting at 7, like with Nightson, my uni schedule will probably clash with your guild's raid times.



The few 25 man raids I've done as of Cata, I can't say they are easier per se. But there are some things which do make them easier.

-Healing-Picking up an extra healer isn't as massive a DPS loss in 25 man as it is in 10 man. We run with 6 healers, some fights they recommend 7-8. Dropping a DPS for a healer in 10 man is not recommended.
-Deaths-You get 3 battle res's instead of 1. This is actually pretty signifigant. But moreover, as long as you don't lose tanks and healers, losing a DPS isn't that big a deal. Even if you lost 5 of them, you can get back all but 2, and the loss of 2 DPS isn't going to stall the encounter. In 10 man, you lose anyone and you will feel it sooner or later.
-Composition-10 man is much more composition sensitive. Don't have a Shaman or Mage? No Bloodlust. Don't have a Druid? No Battle Res. Don't have a Priest? Probably not getting a Fortitude buff. No Mage? No mana buff. Etc. Now granted, there are workarounds (Warlock can give the Fort Buff IF they aren't Demonology, or a Warrior can IF there is something else already giving out their damage buff), but in a 10 man group you have less room to play with. In a 10 man group you have less room to play with in order to get the maximum benefit of overlapping buffs. And every time they give a buff to another class the word Homoginization gets thrown around.

Overall, 10 man just has less room for error in some respects. Notice how I say some? A bad move in a 25 man can wipe the raid, or possibly put healers in a situation where they have to heal 25 people through a metric tonne of damage, where in 10 man that same mistake only applies to 5-10 people. In 25 man, DPS might have less room to spread out. Another example where 25 man is actually quite a bit harder would be back in ICC. 3 Valkyr aren't that much harder to deal with, as long as they go the same direction and everyone stacks properly. Otherwise it becomes signifigantly harder to deal with. And on the Heroic version of that fight, once the Valkyr has been dealt with, the fly up into the air and start draining health on people. 1 drain is much easier to heal through than 3.

Thanks, guess I'll stick to 10 man then. Maybe I'm just a sucker for punishment but I never liked the idea that losing 1/5th of your raid group will not have as much an effect on your raid's success. The occasional missing buff is something I've learned to live with.

The one thing that worries me is that I intend to get into doing heroic raiding eventually and I'm not sure if the current tier of heroics is 10man friendly. In fact, has any guild actually even cleared 13/13 on 10 man Heroics yet?

For zones, I like the new zones purely because it feels like a new experience when I level through my alts but I guess I'll probably get tired of it after my first couple of alts and resort to dungeon grinding again.

[The Linker]

The only thing that worries me is that you're on an RP server. While I enjoy the occasional bit of RP, it's definately not one of the main reasons I play the game.

You'll never be forced to RP when you don't want to -- 'wanting to' includes joining RP heavy guilds and attending events like weddings, in this case. I've a few characters on RP realms and the main difference I've noticed is the increase in players up for banter in general and trade chat. People just like to talk more, and more coherently. Highly recommended.

[Psyren]

I still haven't been able to get any of my characters trained in Archaeology. Is there a level requirement? It was the first thing I tried to train when my goblin finally got to Orgimmar, but the trainer didn't offer it to me.

I believe the minimum is 25


You'll never be forced to RP when you don't want to -- 'wanting to' includes joining RP heavy guilds and attending events like weddings, in this case. I've a few characters on RP realms and the main difference I've noticed is the increase in players up for banter in general and trade chat. People just like to talk more, and more coherently. Highly recommended.

Amen to that, I love it on Ravenholdt. And there's a lot less asshattery from opposing factions. I once had a very long pantomime session with a Tauren that had 10 levels on me. I think we both left that conversation more confused than we went in but it still felt productive when we bowed to each other at the end.

[Alarra]

Well, turns out US times weren't as bad as I thought so depending on times I guess moving to a US server is an option. (7PM EST = 11AM my time next day, 7PM PST = 2PM my time next day).

I'm currently attending uni on Monday, Wednesday and Thursday which is Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday night in the US so if anyone knows a guild that doesn't raid during those days, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Assuming I can't find any guild here, where should I go looking then since everyone seems to agree that I should avoid the official forums like the plague?

@Alarra: Your guild seems nice and the late night raid in particular interests me since an 11pm start means I can probably attend Sunday your time raids so the only raids I can't attend would be ones scheduled for on Tuesday or Wednesday. The only thing that worries me is that you're on an RP server. While I enjoy the occasional bit of RP, it's definately not one of the main reasons I play the game.

I'm on an RP server? lol I never rp and have never actually even seen anyone RPing. We're certainly not heavy on RP in our guild. It is true that RP servers tend to have a lot more civil people though. But yeah, you're certainly not going to be expected to rp.

The 11pm was actually scheduled for Wednesday night, so that wouldn't work for you. Although, I'm not sure it's actually happening anymore since the person that was planning it isn't in the guild anymore. There is a group that was interested in forming a late night raid though, clearly, so there's still the possibility that would happen. We haven't actually scheduled a time for the one we're currently building, which Zeb and I will be permanent members on. It will probably be Friday or Saturday night, which would work in to your schedule fine.

[Karoht]

Thanks, guess I'll stick to 10 man then. Maybe I'm just a sucker for punishment but I never liked the idea that losing 1/5th of your raid group will not have as much an effect on your raid's success. The occasional missing buff is something I've learned to live with.Um, no, I said losing 1/25th of your raid will not have a victory/loss determinining impact. On any DPS timer or burn phase you will feel the loss of that person, but that loss by itself isn't the end of the world. In 10 man, you lost someone and you're heading into a burn phase? Good luck.
As for losing 1/5th in a 25 man, it entirely depends on what fifth you lose. Is it 4 DPS and a healer? Ouch, that isn't going to go well. Is it 5 DPS? You might pull it off. 4 DPS and a Tank, wow that gets iffy.
In 10 man, you lose two people, it's a major impact. One loss can be critical, two losses and it is going to be brutal to finish that fight. 3 losses, you can win if your healers mana holds up. Maybe.



The one thing that worries me is that I intend to get into doing heroic raiding eventually and I'm not sure if the current tier of heroics is 10man friendly. In fact, has any guild actually even cleared 13/13 on 10 man Heroics yet?Top progression guilds have, to my knowledge. Check wowprogress.com

So you plan on getting into heroic raiding huh?
Just my two cents here, but man, I like how they structured the loot table this go around. Making the jump from 346 (Heroic Dungeon) gear to 359 is remarkable in it's way. There is probably 1 upgrade on any boss for every spec, *maybe* a side-grade, and yet the loot table isn't massive. And not having 2 loot tables for 10 and 25? Spectacular. Back in Wrath, I had to keep planning my week around either maxing out both lockouts (as 10 and 25 had separate raid ID's unlike now), or I had to figure on certain bosses on either 10 or 25 for upgrades. It is so easy now to plan out our loot progression and know what bosses you need. I don't even have to look at a loot table to know that there is an upgrade for me on Valiona/Theralion (BiS cloak), one on Maloriak (BiS mana management trinket), one on Atramedes and one on Chimaeron, not counting Tier on end bosses.
This makes getting geared up and ready for Heroic quite smooth, where as it was much more complicated getting all the upgrades for previous tiers, especially some like Ulduar. So your only real progression prior to Heroic is skill.


In other news, my guild managed to down Cho'Gall and Nef this weekend, we're doing one more week of farming, and then going into Heroics with our A group and 25 man group, while B group will stay on 10 man regular until B group downs Cho/Nef. Sadly I was absent for both kills. /sadface But we might work on Al'Akir this week.

[Psyren]

This is why I'm fully in favor of more classes (in this case, Death Knights) getting the battle rez. With apologies to Druids not feeling like they're unique anymore, the battle rez was supposed to compensate them for not having a proper reusable resurrection spell like the other healers. Once they got that, they pulled ahead of everyone else in the utility race.

[Karoht]

This is why I'm fully in favor of more classes (in this case, Death Knights) getting the battle rez. With apologies to Druids not feeling like they're unique anymore, the battle rez was supposed to compensate them for not having a proper reusable resurrection spell like the other healers. Once they got that, they pulled ahead of everyone else in the utility race.

Meh. Battle rez didn't make me feel unique in the first place. Tranquility makes me feel unique. Shapeshifting makes me feel unique. My mastery and my hots makes me feel unique. The Solar/Lunar power in Balance makes me feel unique.

Though I will miss DK's raising people as zombies after the battle res's were out, before the limit was placed on how many brez you could use in a fight.

[Psyren]

Tranquility, unique? Isn't it some kind of... rain that heals? (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=73920) :smallwink:

I will say that I love the eclipse mechanic for balance though.

The ghoul thing was fun but not the kind of move that had a serious chance of turning the tide of a battle. A battle rez though, definitely does.

[The Linker]

Tranquility is not the same as Healing Rain. Healing Rain covers a little targeted fifteen foot zone and heals, well, eh. Tranquility gets everyone vaguely near the Druid and for lots and lots of health. There's a reason it's an eight-minute cooldown. :smallamused:

[Karoht]

Tranquility, unique? Isn't it some kind of... rain that heals? (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=73920) :smallwink:

I will say that I love the eclipse mechanic for balance though.

The ghoul thing was fun but not the kind of move that had a serious chance of turning the tide of a battle. A battle rez though, definitely does.
In wrath, when were were out of battle rez (all druids, soulstones, and shaman's self rez exhausted), it was a nice touch. If Deathknights could have both, and the ghoul res didn't count towards Brez total, I would actually be in favor of that.

And Tranquility isn't a rain graphic. The light goes up, not down. And it's a smart heal, and a powerful one at that.

[Psyren]

Tranquility is not the same as Healing Rain.



And Tranquility isn't a rain graphic. The light goes up, not down. And it's a smart heal, and a powerful one at that.

I meant flavorwise, naturally - the mechanic counterpart to Tranquility is the priest's Divine Hymn, so it isn't unique in that respect either.

In WC3 it is rain (and check the WoW icon (http://www.wowpedia.org/images/e/ee/Spell_nature_tranquility.png)/TCG artwork (http://www.wowtcgdb.com/images/medium/tranquility.jpg) as well.) The sparkly lights effect in WoW is to make its use highly visible, as a heads up to both allies and enemies.)

[Karoht]

It's visually striking and different enough for me to feel like Tranquility is unique. It also does function somewhat differently to a priests Hymm. The core mechanic is very similar, but I don't consider the two abilities close enough to be called homogenization. Just my opinion though.
Also, Tranquility was truly unique for quite a while, as was Divine Hymm.

[Fleeing Coward]

I'm on an RP server? lol I never rp and have never actually even seen anyone RPing. We're certainly not heavy on RP in our guild. It is true that RP servers tend to have a lot more civil people though. But yeah, you're certainly not going to be expected to rp.

The 11pm was actually scheduled for Wednesday night, so that wouldn't work for you. Although, I'm not sure it's actually happening anymore since the person that was planning it isn't in the guild anymore. There is a group that was interested in forming a late night raid though, clearly, so there's still the possibility that would happen. We haven't actually scheduled a time for the one we're currently building, which Zeb and I will be permanent members on. It will probably be Friday or Saturday night, which would work in to your schedule fine.

Well, this might work out then, going to be on a lvl 1 to check out the economy on your server and see what chat's like abit more. I'm liking what I've seen so far from just before last night's maintenance (Didn't see a single piece of spam during the 15 minute countdown unlike what usually happens on my server :smalltongue:).
One more question though - just how often do your guild's other raid teams raid? Ideally, I'm probably looking to do about 3 raid nights a week and I want to make sure that I'll eventually get the opportunity to do that.


Um, no, I said losing 1/25th of your raid will not have a victory/loss determinining impact. On any DPS timer or burn phase you will feel the loss of that person, but that loss by itself isn't the end of the world. In 10 man, you lost someone and you're heading into a burn phase? Good luck.
As for losing 1/5th in a 25 man, it entirely depends on what fifth you lose. Is it 4 DPS and a healer? Ouch, that isn't going to go well. Is it 5 DPS? You might pull it off. 4 DPS and a Tank, wow that gets iffy.
In 10 man, you lose two people, it's a major impact. One loss can be critical, two losses and it is going to be brutal to finish that fight. 3 losses, you can win if your healers mana holds up. Maybe.

Yeah, guess I need to be more clear. May sound stupid but I believe that unless you've outgeared the content, more wipes than battle rezzes early should result in a raid wipe. That's what I like about 10 man - the fact that losing even one dps early really makes a huge impact. Sort of gives me a greater sense of accomplishment when we actually down the bosses as opposed to 10 man where the impact of a lost dps isn't as huge.


Top progression guilds have, to my knowledge. Check wowprogress.com

I have checked wowprogress, 2 korean guilds might have gotten 13/13 but they sort the guilds by where they cleared most of the heroics now and I havn't gotten any confirmation that all of the kills were on 10 man.


So you plan on getting into heroic raiding huh?
Just my two cents here, but man, I like how they structured the loot table this go around. Making the jump from 346 (Heroic Dungeon) gear to 359 is remarkable in it's way. There is probably 1 upgrade on any boss for every spec, *maybe* a side-grade, and yet the loot table isn't massive. And not having 2 loot tables for 10 and 25? Spectacular. Back in Wrath, I had to keep planning my week around either maxing out both lockouts (as 10 and 25 had separate raid ID's unlike now), or I had to figure on certain bosses on either 10 or 25 for upgrades. It is so easy now to plan out our loot progression and know what bosses you need. I don't even have to look at a loot table to know that there is an upgrade for me on Valiona/Theralion (BiS cloak), one on Maloriak (BiS mana management trinket), one on Atramedes and one on Chimaeron, not counting Tier on end bosses.
This makes getting geared up and ready for Heroic quite smooth, where as it was much more complicated getting all the upgrades for previous tiers, especially some like Ulduar. So your only real progression prior to Heroic is skill.

That's the plan although at my current rate of progression, unless I do find that right guild, I probably won't even finish all the normal versions before Firelands and 4.2 comes out.

I sort of like those loot tables too although knowing my luck, I'll probably have to farm every boss alot before I get the right pieces (I'm 1 for 14 so far on boe epic rolls that weren't ninja'd and the one time my old guild did down Halfus, I was filling in as tank and the BiS healer ammy drops :smalltongue:)

In other news, that single epic roll that I did win (Heartbound Tome) was last night while I was getting my daily 70 valor on my DK in Vortex Pinnacle :smallbiggrin:

[Alarra]

I'm not really sure how often the other teams raid. I think each team raids at least two nights. I'm hoping that the team we're building will raid two nights, though I don't know about that for sure yet. In general, you can probably expect to be able to raid two nights a week with your team, and, if you're available, the other raids often need spots filled. We're also currently encouraging a lot of people to start their own raid teams, so if you aren't raiding as much as you like with the group you end up with, you can always say, post that you want to start a Monday night raid and you'll get plenty of people that are interested in joining you.

[The Linker]

That's the plan although at my current rate of progression, unless I do find that right guild, I probably won't even finish all the normal versions before Firelands and 4.2 comes out.

Firelands has been delayed 'till 4.3 anyway. No new raid content in 4.2. More time to raid current stuff! :smallbiggrin:

[Kish]

Firelands has been delayed 'till 4.3 anyway. No new raid content in 4.2. More time to raid current stuff! :smallbiggrin:
I believe you are in error.

Specifically, I'm getting the impression that you are under the mistaken impression that patch 4.1 is already out, the next major content patch is patch 4.2, and Firelands was delayed from patch 4.2 to 4.3, rather than, as is actually the case, from patch 4.1 to 4.2.

[The Linker]

I believe you are in error.

Specifically, I'm getting the impression that you are under the mistaken impression that patch 4.1 is already out, the next major content patch is patch 4.2, and Firelands was delayed from patch 4.2 to 4.3, rather than, as is actually the case, from patch 4.1 to 4.2.

._.

>_>

<_<

Eh-heh.

[Zeb The Troll]

@FC - If you'd like, I can probably set up a chat with one of our guild officers, who'd likely have a better idea of the answer to the questions you have. I'd just need a time when you'd be on so I can figure out which officer would be on and available. Thursday morning thru Saturday afternoon, EDT, would be best for me if you want me to be online at the same time. Other times are workable for Alarra to be on at the same time. Otherwise we can work something else out.

If you're interested, PM me and I'll share our RealID information so you can catch us online whenever we're there. Otherwise, we're almost always on our mains, Zebmage and Astorya. The guild is Circle of Fear (Horde) if you want to just bug someone out of the blue and don't feel like waiting for us to coordinate. If you /whisper someone in guild, they'll either be happy to talk to you (if they aren't busy in a heroic or a raid or something) or they'll probably be able to direct you to someone who's currently available to chat with you.

[JediSoth]

Once I start getting up into my 60s, is there still quest content and such? I assume I'll be able to use the Dungeon Finder to find PUGs throughout the game, but I'm concerned that once I get to a certain level, there really won't be anymore soloable content.

[Psyren]

Once I start getting up into my 60s, is there still quest content and such? I assume I'll be able to use the Dungeon Finder to find PUGs throughout the game, but I'm concerned that once I get to a certain level, there really won't be anymore soloable content.

In the 60s, you have all of Outland open to you - there are tons of quests. You have Burning Crusade, right?

[JediSoth]

In the 60s, you have all of Outland open to you - there are tons of quests. You have Burning Crusade, right?

Yeah, Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Cataclysm. I don't really anticipate ever having the time for raiding. I'm little more than a casual WoW player at this point.

[The Linker]

You will always, always, always be able to solo to max level. No matter what max level is. You won't even be able to do all the quests they give you without overleveling them. :smallbiggrin:

[Blayze]

Awesome. My question in the second Ask the Devs topic is all shiny because the post became Highly Rated. Hopefully that means Blizzard will answer it.

[JediSoth]

You will always, always, always be able to solo to max level. No matter what max level is. You won't even be able to do all the quests they give you without overleveling them. :smallbiggrin:

And this is why I don't find WoW to be nearly as addictive as EverQuest was; I don't have to sit around for hours trying to find a group just to get something done then feel I have to spend at least the same amount of time, if not more, in order to make my wait worthwhile.

It was actually about the time I discovered I was sitting on my butt chatting through EQ while LFG longer than I was actually getting to play it that I decided to quit cold-turkey. It was hard.

WoW is much more fun. I wasn't really sold on it before the Cataclysm changes, though. Some of those goblin quests are just too fun.

[Psyren]

You will always, always, always be able to solo to max level. No matter what max level is. You won't even be able to do all the quests they give you without overleveling them. :smallbiggrin:

In addition, you can level through PvP as well if you prefer that or just to break up the monotony of questing. AV is one of the best ways to do this.


And this is why I don't find WoW to be nearly as addictive as EverQuest was; I don't have to sit around for hours trying to find a group just to get something done then feel I have to spend at least the same amount of time, if not more, in order to make my wait worthwhile.

This confused me - EQ was more addictive because you needed help to do anything? :smallconfused:

[Karoht]

@Jedi-You can solo 1-85, no questions. There are very very very few questing bottlenecks where you run out of quests if you don't group up. And most of the quests you can duo without issue if you can't solo them. It's really not hard finding 1 person to help you with a quest quickly. Even the quests that say 5 people recommended really aren't all that difficult, even at the minimum level.
(but take that seriously if it says dungeon or raid, but you already knew that)


@Fleeing Coward
Re-10VS25
Thats not really how you phrased it before, but I get what you're saying. And for that exact reason along with others I listed, yes, 10 man is challenging.
As for gearing up, my guild has only been fielding a solid raid group (and actually been raiding for our full 3 days a week or more) for the last 4 weeks now. Had we started at launch as was our plan, our 10 man core would all be fully epic'd by now. I only really started raiding again last week (in our B group) and I'm already only 3 upgrades away from being fully epic'd, and I've scarcely seen caster leather drop.
And going by the difficulty of normal content, we would have been on heroic content full time, probably 2 or 3 weeks ago. So far the content is very well tuned, between both 10 and 25, from my experience. On my server some pugs are clearing Cho'gall and Al'Akir, so that says a lot.

In other words, I found a very sneaky trick with Valor points. I'm saving up 2200 right now, mostly just in case I get a Tier token, so I can go straight to the 4pc bonus. Well, I have enough points to buy the valor ring. So I did. And promptly returned it for a full refund an hour and a half later (when the guild cauldron flask wore off), followed immediately by picking it up again and using it for the remainder of the raid.
If we don't down an end boss this week, I'll probably buy it anyway, or I might give one of the Trinkets a go. Now that I'm raiding again at my usual pace, VP is coming decently quick and easy again.

Bottom Line-Raiding is accessable, and if you have the skill you will progress. Gearing is quicker than ever, loot tables are simple, and I honestly can't wait to see Firelands in 4.2


On the note of Firelands and 4.1/4.2, please see the episode of the recent episode of weekly Marmot and PST on Tankspot.com prior to any complaints regarding rehashed content or Firelands = delayed. Hint, Firelands isn't delayed, and the Zul Gurub/Zul Aman dungeons have entirely new bosses (though Mandokir is pretty similar, but his "Ding/Grats" mechanic was entirely unique to him back in the old days) as well as there is story progression. It is obvious they planned to do this as early as the Cata Alpha and Beta, as ZG (raid) was removed back then, and there is a questline right now out in Stranglethorn which gives you the leadup to the new ZG.

[JediSoth]

In addition, you can level through PvP as well if you prefer that or just to break up the monotony of questing. AV is one of the best ways to do this.



This confused me - EQ was more addictive because you needed help to do anything? :smallconfused:

Yeah, because by the time I'd get a group, I realized it had taken me a couple of hours (I was unemployeed at the time), so I felt obligated by my brain to keep playing AT LEAST that long. Plus there were the LONG spawn timers for MOBs that dropped Special Rock #2.A that you needed to give to another rare spawn in a different zone that was often getting gacked by griefers.

[otakuryoga]

Once I start getting up into my 60s, is there still quest content and such? I assume I'll be able to use the Dungeon Finder to find PUGs throughout the game, but I'm concerned that once I get to a certain level, there really won't be anymore soloable content.

yeah, you can do dungeon finder...but be prepared for a wait if you are DPS
healer not so much, and if you were smart enuf to be a tank you are golden

longest dungeon queue i have endured as a tankadin? 2 minutes(and that only because someone turned down the dungeon 3x before we got a full group) my average time waiting after i click dungeon finder is less than 40 seconds

[JediSoth]

yeah, you can do dungeon finder...but be prepared for a wait if you are DPS
healer not so much, and if you were smart enuf to be a tank you are golden

longest dungeon queue i have endured as a tankadin? 2 minutes(and that only because someone turned down the dungeon 3x before we got a full group) my average time waiting after i click dungeon finder is less than 40 seconds

The longest I've waited on my server as a DPS so far has been about 6-7 minutes. I was running around Stranglethorne doing quests at the time, so it didn't seem so bad, really. I assume it'll be longer as I get higher in level, since there seem to be more high level characters doing dungeons than us mid-level folk.

[Nightson]

I think lower levels are bolstered by tanks and healers who level just by chain running dungeons.

[Zeb The Troll]

I don't know about anyone else, but for us, if you're a solo DPS at level 85, you can count on a 45 minute queue for heroics. Group with a healer and your wait goes down to about 8 minutes. Tanks are, of course, still instant queue.

[Zherog]

That's about my experience too, Zeb. I haven't tried with my hunter yet (just hit 85 over the weekend), but my rogue has about 35-40 minute wait. It's totally sucktastic to wait that long and then get a failgroup.

[TheEmerged]

I think lower levels are bolstered by tanks and healers who level just by chain running dungeons.

^This. @85, I'm seeing anywhere from 30-45 minutes on my mage, about 10-15 if one of the guild healers is grouped with me (my paladin friend is taking a sabatical from the game).

Fact: while doing the cooking/fishing dailies on DiesHorribly (my twinked-out Horde alt), I've seen low-level tank & healer pairings in \trade begging for level-appropriate DPS to join them \ enter LFD so they can queue even faster due to the low horde population on my server :smallbiggrin:

==============

Now that I finished out Wintersaber and Baradin/TB rep, I'm taking a good look at knocking Netherwing off my list as well. I'm hoping that having 310 flight will make those dailies easier on my poor video game reflexes.

[Zeb The Troll]

I'm taking a good look at knocking Netherwing off my list as well. I'm hoping that having 310 flight will make those dailies easier on my poor video game reflexes.It does. My son-in-law just finished them on his pally last week. It only took him five tries on the last two races because he was actually able to catch back up if he got hit in the face with lightning or whatever.

[The Linker]

We Druids just flat-out cheat at that. :smallamused:

I'm hit? Oops! Shift back in mid-air! Hit seventeen times? No problem!

[Zeb The Troll]

We Druids just flat-out cheat at that. :smallamused:

I'm hit? Oops! Shift back in mid-air! Hit seventeen times? No problem!How is this different than just losing a bit of ground on your mount, that you are not knocked off of since before I tried these quests?

[The Linker]

Wait, what? Not knocked off of?

I could have sworn my poor Tauren Hunter got smashed into the ground more than once. Maybe they changed it since then -- that was back when BC was current.

[GolemsVoice]

When I did this, you know, back before it was mainstream and all, some abilities knocked you off your mounz if you were hit by them.

[Zeb The Troll]

Yes, that was changed some time before Alarra and I did them shortly before Cata was released. I read that they used to do that, but we didn't experience that.

[Blayze]

And now I come to the problematic part of obtaining gear: the Specific Item of Endless Annoyance.

The tank necks only drop from Atramedes (Not attempted yet, we went to Chimaeron instead) and Nefarian (AHAHAHAHAHA... no).

Now if only us Jewelcrafters could make 359-level gear like every other crafting profession can, I'd have been able to make myself a neck and ring right off the bat.

Also, excellent news about the Skyshattered races. I'll have to finish them up now that they're less painful to do.

[Karoht]

My goodness, I forgot how fun 25 man content is in comparison to 10 man. But dear gods, there is a lot of trash in BoT on 25. Holy crap.

Valiona + Theralion in BoT25.
I noticed something. Right after Blackout, everyone runs really far away, only to have to run somewhere else for the breath attack.
Hint-After Blackout, hang out closer. Healers will have just spammed AoE heals, so it's not a big deal if 5 people eat a fireball or two. I'll gladly trade healing a few of those fireballs for trying to heal through the breath.

Halfus Wyrmbreaker in BoT25.
First time I've ever not had the Whelps, and we had a decent combo. I really enjoy this whole semi-random mechanic thing, especially when trying to figure out which Drake to down first. Easiest Halfus kill I've seen in a while.

[Garland]

Yes, that was changed some time before Alarra and I did them shortly before Cata was released. I read that they used to do that, but we didn't experience that.

I did it recently on my DK (with 310% flying) and they still sometimes knock you off your mount, I guess it happened because i was hit several times in succession. Only happened once though, as completing that questline with 310% is a piece of cake (but also , quite fun!)

[Eon]

When I did this, you know, back before it was mainstream and all, some abilities knocked you off your mounz if you were hit by them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l6E9Qro83w&feature=related

Has some examples, pretty funny. (Hint: 1:33 is an awesome one)


Update: Bandil is 85 and nicely geared from heroics, Sphil is 85 and somewhat neglected, Hylun is 71 and resting nicely, Rekkas is 73 and flying through levels. :smallcool:


40-50 minute queues sound about right.


*Stealths again*

[Karoht]

Re: Netherwing Race
I tried it before some patch, failed utterly on the last guy about a dozen times, gave up.
Came back a patch or two later, with 310 flying speed. Here's my observations between the two.

First go around, if I was hit, I had to spam the flight form button (Druid) and it seemed like there was a minimum delay time on that before it would do anything. I would then fly as normal.

Second time (after patches) I was hit right away, and rather than fall, I ended up on the back of a Netherdrake that I did not and could not have owned, and continued flying forward with no interruption whatsoever, as though I wasn't even hit. However, this did not always occur and would sometimes fall, only to turn into a bird form again. It seemed to have something to do with my follow distance from the guy.

[Leon]

I don't see why people complain abut long ques for DPS. Sure if you just sit about town its a long wait but if you are doing something then its not.
Its a nice break from gathering once in a while to do a Random.

[GolemsVoice]

Also, back in the day, 45 minutes was considered merciful. AND you had to stand around in a capital city and spam that you're looking for healers and tanks.

[JediSoth]

So, yeah, started a Worgen Warrior last night and I wanted to slaughter the people I was supposed to help evacuate from the starting area once the flooding started.

Me: Old Woman! FLOOD! DEATH! You must flee!
Old Woman: Ok, but not without my journal which I have lost.
Me: *finds the journal* OK, here's your book. NOW FLEE! DEATH IS COMING FOR YOU.
Old Woman: Thanks, but I can't leave without my finest clothes.
Me: *goes and gathers her laundry*
Old Woman: Sorry, I can't possibly leave without my kitty.
Me: *faceplam*

By the time I got done with that old bat, I wanted to just kill her myself. "Why yes, cataclysmic flooding *can* leave teeth, claw marks and a broken neck, didn't you know? She must have been hit one of the hunter's stuffed prizes propelled at enormous speed by the wall of water. Tragic."

At least the guys repairing the boat had an excuse. A leaky boat won't get very far.

[Blayze]

Also, back in the day, 45 minutes was considered merciful. AND you had to stand around in a capital city and spam that you're looking for healers and tanks.

I once took part in a six-hour UBRS run. One person left, and they were the tank I replaced.

At least this time around, not *all* the tank loot drops only from the last boss in each dungeon.

[TheEmerged]

I don't see why people complain abut long ques for DPS. Sure if you just sit about town its a long wait but if you are doing something then its not.
Its a nice break from gathering once in a while to do a Random.

Because there for a while during WotLK, a 10 minute wait was considered long. Not complaining myself, although it does mean I'm not guaranteed to be able to finish a heroic each night anymore. I miss the "spend all night in Ironforge hoping to SOMEDAY form a group for Mauradon that actually makes it to the dungeon" bit even less.

[Zherog]

I don't see why people complain abut long ques for DPS. Sure if you just sit about town its a long wait but if you are doing something then its not.
Its a nice break from gathering once in a while to do a Random.

Because it makes acquiring badges difficult. I log on around 9pm. I hop into a queue and start about my business of gathering mail and reposting auctions. I go hit dailies. Around 9:45 or so I can expect to get into a group. While I had great luck with the dungeon finder tool in LK, I'm getting a lot of douches and failgroups in Cata. Law of averages, I guess. So generally it takes, on average, about an hour to 75 minutes to complete the run. So now it's 10:45. If I hop in the queue again, it'll be 11:30 before the group starts. And since I generally plan on logging off between 11:45 and midnight, that doesn't leave enough time for running the instance.

Then, of course, there's the times when I spend my 45 minutes in queue only to get into a group that's done everything except the last boss. So no loot from other mobs or bosses, no badges from other mobs or bosses, and another 35-45 minute wait ahead of me to get into another group.

So yeah, I can definitely do things while queued. That's not the issue. The issue is that such a long wait precludes me from doing more than 1 instance a night most nights, which makes badge acquisition difficult.

[Karoht]

Yeah, healer queues are shorter. 10 minutes. Make friends with a healer and group up with them. Or tanks if you want instant.
But as far as doing stuff while in the queue, it's usually when I get Tol Barad dailies picked up, and I usually get 3 or 4 completed before the dungeon is ready.

But, if I were a DPS, I would still be annoyed by the queue times. Nothing can really be done about it I suppose. There's just less tanks and less healers than there were before. But, now is probably one of the best times to play a tank or a healer, if you're up for it. Tanking is easier to learn, it's highly viable for solo'ing mobs, and quicker than most DPS. In fact, Prot Warrior has got to be the easiest class to solo with now. Interrupts, Stuns, all kinds of mitigation, Stamina = more damage due to your specialization, Victory Rush gives you a boatload of health between mobs as well as you can spec for VR to be a kind of execute mechanic (with self healing) as well. All that with defensive cooldowns, reactionary abilities, AoE Rend, and respectable damage at the same time. The only tank I can think of that would be easier to level would probably a Blood Deathknight, for mostly the same reasons.

But, tanking isn't for everyone, for the same reasons why healing isn't for everyone.

So, that brings up an interesting topic. Is there anyone interested in learning tanking, but needs that extra little nudge or support? Same question for healing.

[Zherog]

I've been slowly learning healing. My priest is just a few bars from 60 and in HFP. (queue chorus singing "I Believe I Can Fly"). I'm barely into HFP, and I'm already feeling the difference in the way quests are designed.

I started the character in Disc because I had never played a healer, and when a group of friends all decided to start worgen together, it worked out really well. I've found that I like it a lot more than I though I would, to be honest. When you play as DPS, you don't ever get to see something like this:

* tank pulls three groups *
DPS: Are you crazy? Slow down!!!!!11!!!elevenity!!
Tank: Nah, don't worry. The healer is that good.

And then, nobody dies despite the crazy pull.


I only ever tried "tanking" back in vanilla, when I was new to the game and didn't really understand the concept of tank-heal-dps as a group structure. And so I put quotes around the word tanking because my complete lack of understanding lead me to make a combo arms-fury warrior rather than a protection warrior, because the abilities in arms and fury looked "cooler" than the ones in prot.

I have both a druid and a paladin in the level 40 range. The druid is even specced feral with a focus on bear. But I just haven't had the desire to play either character.

[Aidan305]

. When you play as DPS, you don't ever get to see something like this:

* tank pulls three groups *
DPS: Are you crazy? Slow down!!!!!11!!!elevenity!!
Tank: Nah, don't worry. The healer is that good.

And then, nobody dies despite the crazy pull.

I did once have something similar back in patch 3.1 on my ele shaman, only it was a case of: Tank pulls group, hunter accidently pulls two other groups. Hunter dies, Healer dies, rogue dies, myself and tank stay alive with me burning through mana and cooldowns to do it. Together we eliminate the 12 remaining mobs that were on him. It was frenzied, frantic, and great fun.

[Karoht]

Those moments are the best. You put your back to the wall and go all out, and really see what you can do. It's awesome.

[Alarra]

I was just talking to Zeb about that last night actually, about how sometimes I liked it when he accidentally pulled 3x the mobs he intended because then I get to practice really healing. Of course, having been playing for the last 85 levels with a mage as my 'tank', I've gotten a far bit of practice with these uh oh moments. :smallsmile:

[Karoht]

I was just talking to Zeb about that last night actually, about how sometimes I liked it when he accidentally pulled 3x the mobs he intended because then I get to practice really healing. Of course, having been playing for the last 85 levels with a mage as my 'tank', I've gotten a far bit of practice with these uh oh moments. :smallsmile:It's moments like those back in BC and Wrath that coined the phrase "...and Karoht saves the day with..." which was later shortened.

[Psyren]

I don't see why people complain abut long ques for DPS. Sure if you just sit about town its a long wait but if you are doing something then its not.
Its a nice break from gathering once in a while to do a Random.

AMEN. God, I remember when LFG was just limited to the people on your server and the zone you were in.

I would be running around Tanaris, collect all the dungeon quests for ZF, then spam /1 for a group. Then I would end up with 3 rogues and a hunter who would ask me "can we try if you heal pet?" Then I ride to the meeting stone and I'm the only one there because everyone else is expecting to be summoned. So I alt-tab out and wait for one of the other rogues to take the boat from Menethil to Theramore (he was questing in Searing Gorge, you see) to meet me at the stone. Then we summon the hunter and he doesn't even have a turtle or bear, he has a damn wolf. And he melees. AND pulls aggro from his pet.

And all that was when I got lucky - often, days would go by, with said quests turning green, before I would get a group at all.

So no, I don't have a single complaint about dungeon finder. At least, not one strong enough to outweigh my praise for it.


So, yeah, started a Worgen Warrior last night and I wanted to slaughter the people I was supposed to help evacuate from the starting area once the flooding started.

Me: Old Woman! FLOOD! DEATH! You must flee!
Old Woman: Ok, but not without my journal which I have lost.
Me: *finds the journal* OK, here's your book. NOW FLEE! DEATH IS COMING FOR YOU.
Old Woman: Thanks, but I can't leave without my finest clothes.
Me: *goes and gathers her laundry*
Old Woman: Sorry, I can't possibly leave without my kitty.
Me: *faceplam*

By the time I got done with that old bat, I wanted to just kill her myself. "Why yes, cataclysmic flooding *can* leave teeth, claw marks and a broken neck, didn't you know? She must have been hit one of the hunter's stuffed prizes propelled at enormous speed by the wall of water. Tragic."

At least the guys repairing the boat had an excuse. A leaky boat won't get very far.

Actually, that granny quest was great:
it turns out granny is a worgen herself, and pretty damn badass too; she goes ape**** when a deathstalker tries to kidnap her kitty.
The point of the quest being that you didn't have to worry about her after all.

(Also, good luck with attacking her.)

[Karoht]

Then we summon the hunter and he doesn't even have a turtle or bear, he has a damn wolf. And he melees. AND pulls aggro from his pet.

And all that was when I got lucky - often, days would go by, with said quests turning green, before I would get a group at all.

So no, I don't have a single complaint about dungeon finder. At least, not one strong enough to outweigh my praise for it.My roommate at the time was THAT hunter.

Indeed, there are some negatives regarding the LFG tool, but the positives indeed outweigh it all. Sure it helped kill World PvP, sure it broke up the guild-run only mentality, sure it cut travel time which some people still insist is an important game mechanic for reasons I don't fully understand, etc.

[TheEmerged]

Big Valor Point Changes!


Nope. In fact, this is exactly what we're doing in 4.1. :)

Right now, you receive 70 VP for the first random Cataclysm Heroic dungeon you complete each day. In 4.1, you'll receive 70 VP for the first seven random Cataclysm Heroic dungeons you complete each week. Similarly, you'll receive 140 VP for the first seven random Rise of the Zandalari Heroic dungeons (the new Zul'Aman and Zul'Gurub instances) you complete in the week, too. Collectively, you'll be able to earn up to 980 VP exclusively from Heroic dungeons, which in turn will count towards your weekly 1250 VP cap.

By transitioning random Heroic dungeon rewards from a daily format to a weekly one, we'll be able to give players more control and flexibility over how they can earn VP -- which is cool! -- but this also means that we've a lot more bookkeeping to do in terms of where those points are coming from. To help with that, we're adding a "Valor Point bar" (similar to an XP bar) to the top of Dungeon Finder UI that will track your weekly cap, as well as how many Heroics you can still run for VP during the week.

We're going to be writing up a pretty big blog about that system since it's somewhat complicated, but here's what you can take away right now:


In 4.1, running random Heroic dungeons for VP is now something you can do on your own schedule. Feel like spending your entire Saturday queuing up as random? No problem! The first seven random Rise of the Zandalari Heroics you run for the week will award 140 VP each. This is double the VP that you'll receive from your first seven random "tier 1" Cataclysm Heroics, since the dungeons are considered a "step up" in difficulty. You'll be able to randomly queue for the Rise of the Zandalari Heroics separately from the tier 1 Cataclysm Heroic dungeons. Each week you can earn up to 980 VP just by running random Heroic dungeons. If you want to maximize your VP gains, you can still reach the overall weekly cap of 1250 by defeating raid level content. This isn't yet on the PTR for testing. We'll let you know when it is, though, and will continue to provide more information as the development of 4.1 progresses.

[GolemsVoice]

I appreciate the changes very much. Now I can help people after my daily heroic and not "waste" the run, or I can stay in the group with a nice random group for more.

[The Glyphstone]

My roommate at the time was THAT hunter.

Indeed, there are some negatives regarding the LFG tool, but the positives indeed outweigh it all. Sure it helped kill World PvP, sure it broke up the guild-run only mentality, sure it cut travel time which some people still insist is an important game mechanic for reasons I don't fully understand, etc.

It's what I've referred to previously in these threads as the Grognard Factor. They had to suffer through long treks to dungeons, the same way they had to suffer through expensive and delayed mounts, tokenless raid gear, immensely complex attunement quests; so naturally, anyone who comes after them should be forced to endure the same things they did, otherwise it's 'unfair'.

I loved the LFG tool, even if I just spent all my time in queue fishing coins in Dalaran.

[TheEmerged]

Pay attention to this line.


Collectively, you'll be able to earn up to 980 VP exclusively from Heroic dungeons, which in turn will count towards your weekly 1250 VP cap.

Some people are getting confused. Essentially, you can run the revamped ZG/ZA 7 times a week and it will cap you out at 980. You could also run 7 'regular heroics' for 490 points and then 3-4 ZG/ZA runs to get to the same 980 cap. The remaining 270 points will have to come from raiding or some other source I'm not aware of :smallyuk:

[Fleeing Coward]

You'll be able to randomly queue for the Rise of the Zandalari Heroics separately from the tier 1 Cataclysm Heroic dungeons.

Now this is the part I really like. Because of how little raiding I do atm, I'll probably spend the first week or two after it's implemented running the two dungeons for those Maelstrom Crystals. There is no way I'm going to pay the current 10k+ price for BiS enchants :smalltongue:

[pffh]

We just killed chimaeron and we got the achievement from him also on our first kill. It was awesome first the main tank died and then the offtank died and since I was third on threat he goes for me and I pop evasion which gives me extra 15second before he kills me. With 1 second left I vanish and he goes for a mage that iceblocks just before chim kills him which sends him to the other side of the room and we kill him on the way with just the tanks dead.

[Psyren]

Those moments are the best. You put your back to the wall and go all out, and really see what you can do. It's awesome.

Just had a moment like this today - Heroic Violet Hold, the tank DCs during the second boss - so it's up to myself, two frost mages, an affliction lock and his voidwalker to save the run, all of us level 80 in an 80 heroic. So naturally, it's my job to keep all the gung-ho dps alive while they cc and kite the remaining mobs like crazy.

In the end, not only did we pull it off (including absolutely curbstomping Sindragosa through chain-kiting, PW:Barrier and timely VW taunts), but we all got our "Defenseless" achievement as well for not allowing a single point of damage to the VH barrier. The salutes I got at the end reminded me why I started healing in the first place. :smallbiggrin:

[The Linker]

In the end, not only did we pull it off (including absolutely curbstomping Sindragosa through chain-kiting, PW:Barrier and timely VW taunts), but we all got our "Defenseless" achievement as well for not allowing a single point of damage to the VH barrier. The salutes I got at the end reminded me why I started healing in the first place. :smallbiggrin:

I believe you mean Cyanigosa. Sindragosa is a bit tougher. :smallamused:

[tyckspoon]

Little bit of help for a new character, if y'all don't mind: playing around with leveling a warrior as tank. Just got to 15, so I can use the dungeon finder.. what I want to know is, how am I meant to initiate fights at this level? Charge is restricted to Battle Stance, and I don't have any other abilities that will generate Rage before I can start hitting/getting hit. Just try to stance-dance it, Charge in and then switch to Defensive Stance en route? Shoot something? Walk up and face-pull? (I'm already aware my tanking basically consists of Rend->Thunderclap->pray the DPS has enough fire discipline not to individually pull every damn mob, because I sure as heck don't have the tools needed to really hold more than one focus enemy yet.)

[The Glyphstone]

I believe you mean Cyanigosa. Sindragosa is a bit tougher. :smallamused:

I'll forgive him for the mistake. I can't keep all the blue dragons in the game straight in my head either.

[Psyren]

I believe you mean Cyanigosa. Sindragosa is a bit tougher. :smallamused:

Bah, yeah that one.

@ tyck: I'm new to warriors myself but you can always pull with your ranged weapon and ask for people to wait until you t-clap...

[AgentPaper]

You shouldn't have many problems. Just run in and sunder everything. If someone pulls off you, taunt it off them and hit it again.

[Psyren]

So I finally hit 80! And have begun Cata content. And it is awesome.

Within moments of arriving in Hyjal, I found myself smuggling Fandral Staghelm out of prison through the Emerald Dream, riding a giant wolf-spirit through a cutscene as he Great Cleaved marauding cultists, chasing squirrels through a raging inferno, and throwing bear cubs at a trampoline to get them back to their parents.

...So yeah. Twenty Bear Asses (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TwentyBearAsses) this ain't. :smallbiggrin:


Random note: Ysera should really put some clothes on, and I don't care how hot it is on Hyjal. Who would have thought it was possible to make night elf female models look more slutty?

[The Linker]

Random note: Ysera should really put some clothes on, and I don't care how hot it is on Hyjal. Who would have thought it was possible to make night elf female models look more slutty?

I'm still kind of creeped out by Alexstrazsa's clothing juxtaposed with her position as a universal motherly figure.

[Psyren]

I'm still kind of creeped out by Alexstrazsa's clothing juxtaposed with her position as a universal motherly figure.

Child-bearing hips? :smalltongue:
Or she's just plain the ultimate MIL- *ahem*

I do acknowledge that I'm being silly though; I mean in dragon form they're technically running around Azeroth in the buck. Though that begs the question of why they bother wearing clothes in humanoid form at all. If you don't care about modesty around the adventurers, go whole-hog I say.

Haven't set foot in Vash'jir yet (is it as beautiful as Hyjal?) Redridge and Zangarmarsh cemented my dislike of underwater quests, but I hear there's a submarine...

[Karoht]

Some people are getting confused. Essentially, you can run the revamped ZG/ZA 7 times a week and it will cap you out at 980. You could also run 7 'regular heroics' for 490 points and then 3-4 ZG/ZA runs to get to the same 980 cap. The remaining 270 points will have to come from raiding or some other source I'm not aware of :smallyuk:

Actually, this is all around quite a good change, both for those who raid and those who do not. For those who do not, the benefits are self explanitory.

For those who raid...
So lets say that you're downing... 9 raid bosses per week (BH, 5/6 in BWD, 2 in BoT, and 1 in Throne) on 10 man. Thats 630 points. That is just over half the points. If you run all the Heroics on the Tuesday reset and cap yourself, some of the points would be wasted. However, if you wait until you've accomplished most or all of your raiding for the week, you could use it to fill up the cap from there. Not important if you only run 10's, as you'll only hit 630 points. However, those who run 25 man and kill the same bosses will get 810 points. Requiring only a handful of heroics to cap out at the end of the week.

Three things you are likely to see as a result of people not necessarily running heroics every day of the week.
1-Short Ques-Monday and Tuesday will have the shortest ques. Tuesday because the cap resets, monday because people will be trying to cap out before reset.
2-Long Ques-Certain days of the week will have long ques as everyone will cap out earlier in the week, or will be holding it until the end of the week.
3-More incentive to chain with a successful group means less people entering/re-entering que. Which *could* equate to longer ques all around.


Either way, I like it. Get my heroics out of the way on the weekends with my fiance, I do my raids Tues-Thurs and avoid the weekday rush if impatient people who will want to chain heroics at speed.

[Karoht]

Little bit of help for a new character, if y'all don't mind: playing around with leveling a warrior as tank. Just got to 15, so I can use the dungeon finder.. what I want to know is, how am I meant to initiate fights at this level? Charge is restricted to Battle Stance, and I don't have any other abilities that will generate Rage before I can start hitting/getting hit. Just try to stance-dance it, Charge in and then switch to Defensive Stance en route? Shoot something? Walk up and face-pull? (I'm already aware my tanking basically consists of Rend->Thunderclap->pray the DPS has enough fire discipline not to individually pull every damn mob, because I sure as heck don't have the tools needed to really hold more than one focus enemy yet.)

Get Glyph of Sunder, you will be building threat on two people rather easily.
Thunderclap and Cleave are your friends.
As for stance dancing it, you will still retain 25 rage when you switch (untalented), which isn't much, but once you start taking hits and dodging and blocking, your rage income should climb.
Low level you still want to CC where possible, most of your pulls should never exceed 4 mobs. So this typically means you don't want to be doing the pulling. If you have 4 mobs, and two get sheeped, the other two you want to handle. Taunt one, switch targets, hit the other, position them both, start Sunder + Heroic Strike/Cleave + Thunderclap.
Also, if you have the talent where your Thunderclap spreads your Rend around to other targets, you can hold a considerable amount of threat at low level. Just make sure you don't hit Thunderclap too close to the CC'd targets, otherwise they'll have Rend on them and you won't be able to lock them down again.

[Zherog]

Haven't set foot in Vash'jir yet (is it as beautiful as Hyjal?) Redridge and Zangarmarsh cemented my dislike of underwater quests, but I hear there's a submarine...

Vash is (in my opinion, of course) the most visually stunning of the new zones. And while I hate underwater quests, too, Vash solves the problem two ways. First, you're first quest involves gathering mats so the NPC can give you a permanent buff that allows you to breath water and also increases you movement speed underwater. Second, not too long after that you'll get a small series of quests that will provide you an underwater mount.

[The Linker]

Get Glyph of Sunder, you will be building threat on two people rather easily.

Ah, but the minimum level on glyphs now is 25. No help at 15. :smallfrown:

[Karoht]

Ah, but the minimum level on glyphs now is 25. No help at 15. :smallfrown:
For some reason my brain associated low level tanking with SM, so I made the mental extrapolation of level as such. Whoops.

Yeah, at level 15, you don't have an aweful lot of options, which is part of the challenge factor at low level. And part of why I never did dungeons when they were level appropriate back in the day. I hadn't actually finished everything in Wailing Caverns until I was at least 24. SM I'm pretty sure I finally got my last quest complete in there in and around 40.

Best of luck.


========
@Vashjir
I did like Vashjir. And I hate underwater quests. And I'm a Druid. It should be noted though that if you have the Druid Swimming Form Glyph, you take off like a rocket every time you shift to the form, which is pretty cool. Made the form feel really useful for a change.
I still like Deepholm the most. Vashjir wins in terms of creativity and implimentation, but Deepholm was surprisingly good for an underground zone. And it's quest lines did a great job of bringing you into the struggle with Deathwing and the Twilight Cultists, without centering the entire zone on just those two aspects, and still keeping the story revolving around helping the Earth Elementals reclaim their home and build trust with them.

[The Linker]

Yeah, Aquatic Form is just as fast as the Abyssal Seahorse. It's just like being a Druid abovewater; you don't need silly mounts! Just shift and off you go!

Still was kinda disappointing when I got my Seahorse and, well, I realized I had already been going Seahorse speed. Wheee?

[Karoht]

Yeah, Aquatic Form is just as fast as the Abyssal Seahorse. It's just like being a Druid abovewater; you don't need silly mounts! Just shift and off you go!

Still was kinda disappointing when I got my Seahorse and, well, I realized I had already been going Seahorse speed. Wheee?

Actually, if you look at your movement speed in the Character Pane, the Seahorse is in fact faster. However, the last time I checked this was before they fixed the bug where Druid forms didn't get bonuses from the guild perks properly, ergo the mount got the bonus speed and the form did not. I'd have to check again to see where they sit now.

[Psyren]

@ tyck: why not spec arms? Blitz will cause your charge to generate aggro on 3 targets - that + immediate thunderclap should be more than enough to keep the mobs on you even after you switch to defensive stance, and while they're stunned they're not hitting you so the reduced mitigation won't matter anyway.

Then once you have Battle Shout at 20, spec however you like.


Vash is (in my opinion, of course) the most visually stunning of the new zones.

Quite an endorsement! I'll check it out tonight.



Still was kinda disappointing when I got my Seahorse and, well, I realized I had already been going Seahorse speed. Wheee?

Speaking as a priest, who not only has to wait until 83(!) for any kind of move speed buff and has no class mount, but also has to give up his armor and spellpower buff to do it, kindly qq moar. :smalltongue:

[Karoht]

Speaking as a priest, who not only has to wait until 83(!) for any kind of move speed buff and has no class mount, but also has to give up his armor and spellpower buff to do it, kindly qq moar. :smalltongue:Inner Will gives you mana management, though I don't know many who actually use it.
Body and Soul gives you a spamable movement speed buff. One you can place on yourself or others every 15 seconds.

[term1nally s1ck]

Ok, I'm about to start levelling my bank alt via instances. He's a ProtPal, and has only quest-gained gear.

I've never done an instance ever, so I need a bit of help with
A) How to tank properly at L20.
B) How to spec myself out to be a good tank.
and C) Whether I need to buy some good gear to start myself off, or if I can get away with just being higher level than needed for the early ones to earn myself the gear.

[Alarra]

Inner Will gives you mana management, though I don't know many who actually use it.
Body and Soul gives you a spamable movement speed buff. One you can place on yourself or others every 15 seconds.

I used to use it on fights where I didn't think I'd take a lot of damage, but might be mana intensive. And when I first started heroics and didn't have the mana to last the fights. I never use it anymore though, well, except when I'm running back after a raid wipe. And I often use it still while clearing lower level dungeons. I always forget about body and soul....probably because I only have it on my off-spec, so I usually don't have that buff available.

[Zherog]

I still like Deepholm the most. Vashjir wins in terms of creativity and implimentation, but Deepholm was surprisingly good for an underground zone. And it's quest lines did a great job of bringing you into the struggle with Deathwing and the Twilight Cultists, without centering the entire zone on just those two aspects, and still keeping the story revolving around helping the Earth Elementals reclaim their home and build trust with them.

Yeah, I like the quests in Deepholm better overall than those in Vash (though I like Uldum better). Though Vash does have the super-awesome (again, in my opinion) quest chain where you go back in time as a naga.

*

In other news, I got my priest out of HFP last night. I decided to skip (for now) Zangarmarsh and go straight to Terakor Forest. I've been amazed at some of the things I can solo as a disc priest -- like the Drillmaster or the giants up by the red rock. My rogue couldn't solo ether, though that was back when BC was new; don't know if a rogue could do it now.

[Aidan305]

I suspect they probably could. Rogues seem much tougher now. Whereas before they had a disturbing tendency to go down after a couple of hits, they appear to be now able to stand well enough on their own.

[Alarra]

Deepholm was by far my favorite zone, visually. And vash was gorgeous. Though I was constantly lost, so didn't like that aspect. I wasn't that fond of Uldum. Yeah, the story was interesting, but there were waaaaaay too many cut scenes and I didn't care for the landscape.

I'm constantly amazed at what I can live through as a disc priest. We've oft had it happen where a pull went very awry and Zeb died right away (darn squishy fire mages, can't solo anything :smalltongue:) and I manage to finish off the 15 guys that are still beating on us and then rez him. Takes for bloody ever though.

[Psyren]

I'm constantly amazed at what I can live through as a disc priest.

Same here :smallsmile: I haven't had to group for a single elite quest on Svet. Soloed the Tanaris arena, soloed Rakh'likh, soloed Overlord, soloed the Zul'drak Amphitheater... he's my little clothie in plate. The sheer number of cooldowns you can pop in a hairy situation are staggering.

It's also been fun when horde tried to gank me; as long as they're same level or only a little above, I can either wait them out until they get bored or make my way to a quest hub. Once there, the guards engage in some gentle discouragement of PvP by flattening the cool kid for me. :smallwink:


(darn squishy fire mages, can't solo anything :smalltongue:)

Fire mages can be phenomenal at soloing but it takes a lot of finesse. First off, they have more spells that can be cast on the move than any other caster: Scorch, Living Bomb, Pyroblast, Fire Blast, Blast Wave, Dragon's Breath and Flamestrike, all of which either do massive damage, are AoE, are very efficient, or some combination of the three. Between BW's daze, DB's disorient, Impact, and Blink, very few monsters should be able to catch a fire mage with honed reflexes, and groups of non-elites will be reduced to crispy bacon in short order.

Second, even if they catch you after all that and beat you down, you have Cauterize (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=86949) - aka "Improved Death: Mage Edition." It has a shorter cooldown than any other self-rez effect in the game, and all you have to do once you finish off the hapless schlub(s) is Iceblock out of the debuff, then enjoy your new lease on life.

Can you tell fire is now my favorite mage spec :smalltongue:

[TheEmerged]

Having done most of them twice (the druid is in the process of Twilight Highlands now), here's how they break down for me.

Vash - comes in 2nd for beauty and impressiveness. Pretty respectable in terms of using new quest mechanics. However, it is in my opinion the most annoying in terms of story. Notice that I didn't say *bad*, I said *annoying*. Compared to most of the other zones, Vash has you as a hapless victim of circumstances almost from the beginning to the end.

Hyjal - comes in tops for the sheer epicness of the questing, and it also has my favorite zone music. From the moment you zone in to the moment you leave, you generally feel like a hero doing heroic things (except for the stage where you're getting quests from a guy in an outhose, but I'll let that slide). Takes a slight hit compared to the others in that it doesn't push the quest mechanic envelope at all -- there's nothing here that even compares to Gnomebliteration or the Battlemaiden quests, for example -- and there are some quests that were too vulnerable to kill/spawn stealing during the earlier stages (there's a certain stage that took me 2 days worth of played time for me).

Deepholme - the only zone that beats Vash out for beauty, it comes very close to Hyjal for the epicness and does better than Hyjal for pushing the quest mechanic envelope. The closest it has to a flaw is that sometimes it's not clear which quest chain you should be following, but even then I can't think of a spot where that was a problem.

Uldum - loses some epicness points for the way it starts, but beats out many of the other zones *combined* for playing with the quest mechanics (reference: Gnomebliteration). Once it's underway it compares to Hyjal & Deepholme for epicness (I'm not bothered by the Schnotzi bit). Unfortunately, it loses cool points for the constant interuptions (reference: too many cutscenes, not enough sound files).

Twilight Highlands - probably the overall winner. Doesn't actually win any category, and the only category it fails in (bugs, especially related to phasing resources) hasn't affected me much yet. Has some fun quests that unfortunately become less fun the 500th time you do them.

[GolemsVoice]

On Body&Soul: I cast it in any fights that require people to run away, like Atramedes, or really any fight where people have to get somewhere fast, or out of somwhere fast. It's nice to give slower members that extra boost that makes the difference between escaped and almost escaped. It's somewhat expensive, though, and loses utility if there's a discipline priest in the raid.



Uldum - loses some epicness points for the way it starts, but beats out many of the other zones *combined* for playing with the quest mechanics (reference: Gnomebliteration). Once it's underway it compares to Hyjal & Deepholme for epicness (I'm not bothered by the Schnotzi bit). Unfortunately, it loses cool points for the constant interuptions (reference: too many cutscenes, not enough sound files).


I have watched all Indiana Jones movies, and found the zone hilarious, and after me and my girlfriend watched the two Nazi-Indiana Jones mvoies, it became even better. They manage to capture the feeling of a pulp-action flick quite well. And I found Schnotz to be quite amusing, even though it took me longer than it should have to find out who he represented. But I agree, some of the cutscenes where really unnessecary, especially those that just show something being activated or otherwise doing boring stuff. They could have used some more cinematic work. MAybe Blizzard was experimenting here.

[pffh]

I didn't mind the fact that uldum had so many cutscenes in fact I enjoyed most of them. What I did mind that many of them are unskippable and after clearing the zone four times I don't care that the magical chest turns the whole basin into a wildlife wonderland my 40min dps queue just popped up and I can't accept the group because that damn cutscene won't let me! AAAAAAARGH :smallfurious:

So yes cutscenes good unskippable cutscenes bad.

[tyckspoon]

Ok, I'm about to start levelling my bank alt via instances. He's a ProtPal, and has only quest-gained gear.

I've never done an instance ever, so I need a bit of help with
A) How to tank properly at L20.
B) How to spec myself out to be a good tank.
and C) Whether I need to buy some good gear to start myself off, or if I can get away with just being higher level than needed for the early ones to earn myself the gear.

You have it relatively easy, thankfully, because your specialization spell is FREAKING AWESOME. It's ranged, it does excellent damage, it's multitarget, and it even silences, so it'll pull caster mobs into the fight. It pretty much takes care of your initial threat all on its own, especially because you won't really see pulls of groups bigger than 3 until you also have Consecration and possibly Hammer of the Righteous to deal with them. The only thing you have to worry about is if it misses or if the pull is too spread out to ding all of the mobs (or, sometimes, when you get a caster+minion in the group, causing the shield to waste a bounce on the minion.) In that case, taunt the mob that didn't get America'd and drop a Judgement on his head. Should do the job; follow up with a Crusader Strike if it's still not locked on you yet. After that, just use Avenger's Shield whenever it's off cooldown, and tab-target around with your Crusader's Strike and Judgement otherwise. (Although just flinging the Shield on cooldown will probably do the job, really. Did I mention it's awesome? It so is.)

Oh. And number 1 Pally tanking tip: Remember to keep Righteous Fury up! :smallwink:

Spec-wise, you can't really mess up much yet, you don't have enough points. Take what you like in tier 1, I'd probably go for Judgements of the Just as your first point in tier 2- it'll be the most immediate improvement in your survivability.

Edit: Gearwise, I'd just jump in, but it couldn't hurt to check the auction house and see if there's any reasonably priced bits you can upgrade to. At least on my realms, low-level greens don't get much more expensive than 1-1.5 gold. If you're really worried about it you could que specifically for Ragefire Chasms/Deadmines/whatever is the lowest level the Finder will still show you, which you will indeed roflstomp by power of level; you won't get the goody bag, but it'll give you a chance to clear the dungeon quests if you haven't done them yet.

[Ashtar]

I got an email with a free seven day pass to return to Azeroth, so I started downloading WoW again and connected for the first time in years. But, oh my, has everything changed!

As my Shadow priest (Hël - Sun Elf 58, levelled to 59 while playing), It took a while to find my spells again, and I had to figure out the new interface. The I took my warrior (Zanjir - Troll, 70) and the headscratching started. Finally with my Warlock (Kyrazolthan - Orc, 70), I was really stumped. I had no idea where to start up again, nor could I figure out what had happened to the soul shards. Things like not being able to put your points in two categories and dual speccing seemed really obtuse to a WoW original player like me.

My my my, if I want to get back in the game, I'll really have to try and catch up on all the changes to the game. Including the "Pickup / Cross-server dungeon" looking for group, which basically did nothing for 45 minutes before I shut it off.

I'm on Khaz Modan (EU), a french server, so I guess I won't be seeing any one of you online. :smallmad:

I wonder where I could catch up the last 3 (4?) years of patches to understand all the changes. Maybe the best bet is to restart a small character from the start and relearn the UI / Game from a low level ?

[The Linker]

Yeah, that really is the best way. Just take it onnnne ability at a time.

[AgentPaper]

The game has changed so much in the past 3 years even that it would be far simpler to simply learn the game from scratch than it would be to try and trace the changes along.

No need to start from level 1, though. Just take a few abilities that you know what to do with, then slowly add on more abilities as you become comfortable with the ones you have on your bar.

[Zeb The Troll]

[...] Iceblock out of the debuff, then enjoy your new lease on life.I always forget that I can do that.

*puts sticky on Alarra's forehead to remind me as I look to her to save me from my spontaneous combustion*

[Psyren]

Shadow priests haven't changed that much since BC, actually. You have three normal dots, a channeled dot, and two nukes until 80.

Disc/Holy, however, have both been completely overhauled and you will probably want to practice with that. Fortunately, 58 is right when all the newly-rolled gung-ho DKs are queueing, so you won't have a shortage of groups to flex your healing muscle in. Disc is also great for soloing so you can learn at your own pace, I highly recommend it.

...

My iLvL has jumped drastically since beginning cataclysm content. In my first three dungeon runs I saw nothing but cloth and caster weapons drop, and even managed to land myself two (http://www.wowhead.com/item=55854) trinkets (http://www.wowhead.com/item=55787) that I don't see myself replacing for a long time to come.

[term1nally s1ck]

You have it relatively easy, thankfully, because your specialization spell is FREAKING AWESOME. It's ranged, it does excellent damage, it's multitarget, and it even silences, so it'll pull caster mobs into the fight. It pretty much takes care of your initial threat all on its own, especially because you won't really see pulls of groups bigger than 3 until you also have Consecration and possibly Hammer of the Righteous to deal with them. The only thing you have to worry about is if it misses or if the pull is too spread out to ding all of the mobs (or, sometimes, when you get a caster+minion in the group, causing the shield to waste a bounce on the minion.) In that case, taunt the mob that didn't get America'd and drop a Judgement on his head. Should do the job; follow up with a Crusader Strike if it's still not locked on you yet. After that, just use Avenger's Shield whenever it's off cooldown, and tab-target around with your Crusader's Strike and Judgement otherwise. (Although just flinging the Shield on cooldown will probably do the job, really. Did I mention it's awesome? It so is.)

Oh. And number 1 Pally tanking tip: Remember to keep Righteous Fury up! :smallwink:

Spec-wise, you can't really mess up much yet, you don't have enough points. Take what you like in tier 1, I'd probably go for Judgements of the Just as your first point in tier 2- it'll be the most immediate improvement in your survivability.

Edit: Gearwise, I'd just jump in, but it couldn't hurt to check the auction house and see if there's any reasonably priced bits you can upgrade to. At least on my realms, low-level greens don't get much more expensive than 1-1.5 gold. If you're really worried about it you could que specifically for Ragefire Chasms/Deadmines/whatever is the lowest level the Finder will still show you, which you will indeed roflstomp by power of level; you won't get the goody bag, but it'll give you a chance to clear the dungeon quests if you haven't done them yet.

Thanks for the advice, thankfull it was my bank alt with 2000 gold, so I ended up just buying the best str/stam gear I could find for my level and jumping in to ragefire chasm. Cue realising that it's impossible to lose threat single target, and I can easily and capably taunt anyone I lose threat on back to me and hammer them for a bit...and I start to queue random.

Last one of the night was a fill-in on Blackfathom deeps. I proceed to not only tank everything so well that nobody died, but was the highest DPS, and did about 1/2 the healing of the healer.

Oh, and since a newbie lit 3 of the lights at that statue at once, I had to AoE down a monstrous number of mobs at once, and while I finished with no mana and all cooldowns popped, we won with no deaths. At the end the group were hailing me as best tank evar, which cheered me up a bit.

Coupla questions:

How do I get that one guy who pulls all the mobs within range to stop doing it? I pull at a pretty damn fast rate, moving as I take hits and generally tanking 2 groups at all times, but that's just not fast enough for some people, it seems.

What do I do when faced with a fast boss who's immune to taunt? There was one in that alliance instance, and I can't figure out how to get him to stop hitting my squishies. :smallannoyed:

[AgentPaper]

Coupla questions:

How do I get that one guy who pulls all the mobs within range to stop doing it? I pull at a pretty damn fast rate, moving as I take hits and generally tanking 2 groups at all times, but that's just not fast enough for some people, it seems.

What do I do when faced with a fast boss who's immune to taunt? There was one in that alliance instance, and I can't figure out how to get him to stop hitting my squishies. :smallannoyed:

For the first, just let them die. Even if the mobs attack you afterward, it's the only way do deal with them other than outright booting them. A corpse run or two will teach most people to stand behind the tank, though, so you shouldn't need to do that. Mostly I only resort to booting if they actually cause a wipe, which is rare even in heroics nowadays.

There shouldn't be many bosses immune to taunt. More likely you're running into a boss that either ignores the threat table or ignores it for one of it's abilities. What boss(es) are you talking about? More likely than not you've just got to let the DPS take the hits and let the healer heal through it, since there's nothing you can do about it. Just keep up your normal threat rotation and taunt if another DPS gets ahead of you. If there's still problems after that, it's probably someone else doing something wrong.

[term1nally s1ck]

Helix Gearbreaker. (http://www.wowwiki.com/Helix_Gearbreaker)

In that second phase he just seemed to only target the other ppl. I did everything I could but he never seemed to target me. Doesn't matter now, as long as it's rare for that sort of thing to happen, there'll be strats for each one.

[Leon]

On my Dwarf Shaman healer i am leveling with a friend on his Pally tank we do basically the same thing - if your going to be stupid we'll let you get killed and keep going, i wont heal you and he wont save you.

[Karoht]

My my my, if I want to get back in the game, I'll really have to try and catch up on all the changes to the game. Including the "Pickup / Cross-server dungeon" looking for group, which basically did nothing for 45 minutes before I shut it off.Are you a DPS? Yeah, that is a normal wait time. You can see the wait time on the icon that pops up near your mini-map.



I wonder where I could catch up the last 3 (4?) years of patches to understand all the changes. Maybe the best bet is to restart a small character from the start and relearn the UI / Game from a low level ?Go to the main website and click "patch notes" they are all there from the last several years.

But, you're probably better off to just 'ask as you go' and learn more that way.

There's always www.mmo-champion.com for the latest news, and www.tankspot.com has awesome video based guides for all the character classes.

[Psyren]

I routinely let pets die if they are on aggressive, but a player has to be a real asshat (or the tank has to be annoyed) before I threaten them with the same fate.

But may the Naaru have mercy on you if you stand in the fire, for I will not. :smallfurious:

[JediSoth]

I routinely let pets die if they are on aggressive, but a player has to be a real asshat (or the tank has to be annoyed) before I threaten them with the same fate.

But may the Naaru have mercy on you if you stand in the fire, for I will not. :smallfurious:

What kind of moron puts his pet on aggressive when grouping in a dungeon? No wonder hunters have such a bad rep. Heck, I often switch mine to passive when I'm grouped so I can control exactly what the pet attacks.

[AgentPaper]

Helix Gearbreaker. (http://www.wowwiki.com/Helix_Gearbreaker)

In that second phase he just seemed to only target the other ppl. I did everything I could but he never seemed to target me. Doesn't matter now, as long as it's rare for that sort of thing to happen, there'll be strats for each one.

Ah, yeah that's a definite case where you can't do anything as a tank. He just picks random people to latch on to, ignoring threat entirely. Just burn him down, you shouldn't have any trouble healing through the little damage he can do.

[Karoht]

What kind of moron puts his pet on aggressive when grouping in a dungeon? No wonder hunters have such a bad rep. Heck, I often switch mine to passive when I'm grouped so I can control exactly what the pet attacks.

/cheer
You sir just won the internet

[TheEmerged]

Okay, I'll admit this has happened twice to me on my mage since 4.0 gave me a permanent pet. One time I'd accidentally hit the button for aggresive when trying to use Freeze during a fight, and didn't realize it until the pet pulled the next pack. The other time I had the pet on aggressive to try and help "tag" mobs during a kollsteal-heavy quest, got into a dungeon, and didn't get it turned off before it pulled something.

One of my funniest memories in Vanilla era was due to a hunter pet on aggressive, actually. Running BRD with the traditional huntard (it was rather obviously his first time ever in a group/instance). Two members of the group needed a particular kill for a quest, so the group agreed to use the "window" shortcut to bypass directly to it. We all jumped down... and noticed when the first fight ended we were still in combat. Right about then the hunter asked if anybody could see his pet... we didn't think anything of it at first, and made a couple more pulls -- when suddenly his pet disappears and we're still in combat. Right about then is when we saw the horde of trash the pet had dragged toward us...

[Karoht]

Yeah, yeah, we've all got a story like that. At least one.

[The Glyphstone]

I can think of two occurences myself, one more serious than the other - Mauradon, and Heroic Nexus. Both weren't cases of aggressive pets, but hunters who didn't dismiss their pets before jumping off a ledge for a shortcut. The pet took the long way, and brought a bunch of stuff with it.

[Zherog]

I did that once on my warlock, and very quickly learned to never do it again.

[GolemsVoice]

The jump that leads to the LBRS, if you go right after the entrance, was the most famous site for such actions. Oh, what tragedies these halls have seen!

[Ashtar]

So so, took my priest along for a little pick-up dungeon, ended up being damage dealer (shadow) on one and healer for 3 other instances. Gained a level and a half (now 60), and a real hatred of the tiny group frames in the vanilla interface (I'm playing in 1600x1200 so they are small). If I continue to game I really have to mod the lifebars again.

Also, healing is a skill that you don't lose :) which is nice, but one thing that got my group killed once was line of sight issues. The tank ran off, got out of sight and died quickly.

Had good fun. Reminded me of the good old days.

Dire maul is also one where sometime the pets could go round the long way and aggro a whole pile of mobs, cue benny hill sequence!

[The Linker]

Well, there is a UI scaler bar. Though that would scale everything else up, which may not be optimal. :smallconfused:

[Psyren]

Well, there is a UI scaler bar. Though that would scale everything else up, which may not be optimal. :smallconfused:

Your sig fills me with curiosity and humor.

Also, the authentication servers were down :smalleek:

[TechnOkami]

Basically I'm looking for the simple answer of which one of the WoW RPPVP Realms (Twisting Nether, The Venture Co, Ravenholdt, Maelstrom, Lightninghoof, and Emerald Dream) are the best. I thought about posting this to the World's End Tavern Forum, (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1011637/) but I didn't feel this was specific enough for what I want.

Since one of the major facets of D&D is the aspect of Roleplaying, I figured that the Playground would be a far better place to ask my question.

Which of the aforementioned realms have both good PVP and RP opportunities, as well as a community which upholds the statutes of a true RPPVP Realm?

P.S. I would really prefer if this thread didn't become a massive troll war for superiority of whose realm is the best...

[Prplcheez]

Don't ever play on Ravenholdt unless you hate yourself and love being stressed 24/7. Besides Ravenholdt, though, I don't have any experience with RPPvP servers.

[Zeb The Troll]

Ha ha! For my second round of raiding last night, I think things went pretty darned well.

First off, Alarra and I were fill-ins, so getting invited at all made for a good start, for a couple of reasons. One, this means that in our previous endeavors with filling in, we didn't mess up so horribly as to make people not want to invite us back. Probably not as big a deal to some, but as a first time (level appropriate) raider, it was a nice confidence booster. Second, we're not part of a regular team yet, so any and all invites to down bosses on nights that we can actually help out, are welcome.

Second, and this is the part that floored me, is that, in just over 90 minutes, we took down Magmaw, Omnitron, Maloriak, and Atremedes. All with only two wipes (Atremedes we didn't wipe, but it was close). I got a nice trinket off of that last one. (This is actually a nice side benefit of filling in with a team that's basically got a few bosses on farm status. When stuff drops, it's often stuff that regulars already have or have decided they don't need, so instead of rolling against all other casters for that caster trinket, I just got it. Alarra has made out like a bandit this way, because the healers present are clearly already well geared. She's picked up, I think, four upgrades in two raid nights as a fill in.)

In related news, on Monday our guild took down Cho'gall for the first time. I wish I could've been a part of that one. :smallcool:

[Ashtar]

Well, there is a UI scaler bar. Though that would scale everything else up, which may not be optimal. :smallconfused:

Thanks! I remembered there was one, but I looked all through the options for it and didn't find it (of course I was looking in interface and not in video options... stupid me!). That will certainly help.

Congratulations Zeb & Alarra! It's always nice to be allowed to get into the raids on the nights you can. I still remember when my guild was learning Molten Core, Onyxia and Blackwing lair. It certainly helps to gear when everyone is like "oooh, that's the 6th time we see this..."

[Zeb The Troll]

It certainly helps to gear when everyone is like "oooh, that's the 6th time we see this..."Heheh, yeah, the raid leader actually said "If you guys want any of this stuff, just say so. Most of it is the same crap that drops every time so we're just going to DE it."

We also got a belt that, upon reflection, isn't as much of an upgrade as we originally thought. We're both wearing Cord of the Raven Queen and a belt (I don't remember the name, XT something,) dropped off of Omnitron. At a glance it seemed like an obvious upgrade, but afterwards we realized the stats were nearly the same, but it didn't have the metagem socket and the secondary stats are lower priority for both of us than the Raven Queen belt's.

At first we were kind of excited, because she's never had the opportunity to DE a 359 for the maelstrom crystal and she could use them for both the enchants and some tailor recipes. But then we realized that we should at least offer to give it back to the raid. I don't know what system they use for figuring out who gets them. We're hopeful that they'll let her keep it since, you know, she wasn't just a pretty face for those four bosses. :smallcool: I'm hopeful, but, like I said, I don't know what system they're using to figure out who gets what. They may have let her roll on DE's too if they'd known she could use them, for all I know.

[Karoht]

Second, and this is the part that floored me, is that, in just over 90 minutes, we took down Magmaw, Omnitron, Maloriak, and Atremedes. All with only two wipes (Atremedes we didn't wipe, but it was close).Those 4 aren't too terrible. But 90 minutes is a respectable time. Grats. You now know what it feels like to raid with a competent group of people.
Also, ain't lootbragging just a great feelin?:smallsmile:

Speaking of which, my Archeology tab really seems to like me. In one night I managed to score Tyrande's Favorite Doll (an awesome healing trinket, and it's account bound to boot) and I'm only a handful of various fragments from my Raptor Mount, Headdress of the First Shaman (which will go nicely on my upcoming shaman), the last two scepters for the achievement, Yogg-Saron's Puzzle Box (I am VERY curious, no spoilers), the Vykrul Axe and a handful of other things I need to score more achievements. Also hit 525 Arch just this morning.

If I get Zin Rohk the Destoyer, I'm going to have to transfer my Deathknight over from the old server. Not so sure how I feel about that.

Also, I'm 2 achievements away from the Feat of Strength...
Over Nine Thousand.
Yeah.

[Eldonauran]

I play on Emerald Dream and can attest to a lot of people actually RPing (mostly in taverns and the like, between adventures).

You'd be best off looking for a Roleplaying guild when you join, so you can immerse yourself in it.

[Psyren]

Don't ever play on Ravenholdt unless you hate yourself and love being stressed 24/7. Besides Ravenholdt, though, I don't have any experience with RPPvP servers.

Gee thanks :smallannoyed:

I play on Ravenholdt and I love it, so I have no idea where you got an opinion like that from. There is a lot of RP to be found (Alliance-side you can always count on people being in the Blue Recluse or Darnassus). The Horde outnumber us considerably (I think 2.5:1) but I have never been corpse-camped or griefed.

There are a variety of RP guilds on both sides. You can check out the various philosophies and concepts at www.ravenholdt.us.

[Psyren]

Ran Stonecore for the first time, and I can see where all the horror stories come from.

We didn't wipe, but... I don't even want to think about that place on Heroic. :smalleek:

Vortex Pinnacle is now my favorite instance :smallbiggrin:

[TheEmerged]

So, updates on 4.1 patch. Here are some highlights.

Mages
Frostbolt damage has been increased by 10%.

Fingers of Frost bonus damage applied to Ice Lance has been increased to 25%, up from 15%.

Shaman
Improved Fire Nova has been redesigned and replaced by a talent called Seasoned Winds. When an enemy spell cast is successfully prevented with Wind Shear, the shaman gains magical resistance (in an amount equal to what a protection totem/aura would grant, stacking with such buffs) to the spell school(s) of the interrupted spell (except for Holy spells), lasting 10 seconds.

Several spots (Mechanar, Zul-Farrak, Uldamen, Dire Maul North, Stratholme) either lost the need for keys to certain content or the keys are easier to get / respawn. The one for Stratholme is amusingly worded...


Stratholme
Postboxes no longer require keys to open, because really, who locks their postboxes anymore when they're all undead? It's just people sending coupons for brains anyway. The Postmaster now spawns when 3 of any postbox are opened.

Guilds

The amount of guild experience rewarded for rated Battleground guild group wins has been dramatically increased.
Players are now rewarded guild experience for Honorable Kills in the field.
Players are now rewarded guild experience for Battleground wins in Battleground brackets up to level 80.
Arena teams are now awarded guild experience for wins. The entire team must be members of the same guild to earn this experience. Items


All trade goods available for purchase with Honor or Justice Points from the associated commodities vendors have had their prices reduced by 50%.

*Maelstrom Crystals are now available for purchase with Honor or Justice Points from the associated commodities vendors*.

For those of us with limited ability/desire to raid, that last one is a pretty big deal.

[Karoht]

Ran Stonecore for the first time, and I can see where all the horror stories come from.

We didn't wipe, but... I don't even want to think about that place on Heroic. :smalleek:

Vortex Pinnacle is now my favorite instance :smallbiggrin:

Stonecore's biggest problem is Osruk. He is challenging if tanks don't know how to move, and if people don't use the Elementium Bulwark to reflect a DoT onto themselves. Cake if you have lots of range and a decent tank. Hard if you have a pure melee party or a bad tank.

The last boss is hard if people scatter. She's cake if you all stack on the tank and move together, as it makes the placing of the void zones simple. As for placing them, I've found a line right up the middle starting at the entrance works very well. It's easy for your group to go one side or the other for a sec to drag the adds into the zones, and it leaves you LOADS of room to move during the rock throwing phase.

The Drake boss with the stalagmites isn't hard if.
It isn't hard if people can think in two directions at once. They have to have their line to the boss, and a line to the healer, and if possible a line to a safe spot when you get lava patches/crystal shot AoE that you have to LoS.
Most people can't keep track of all that. Healers have to have a line to everyone, and a line to safety. Yeah.

Trash sucks though.


EDIT: Patch Notes
Vendor prices and maelstrom for JP is a nice change. If you're sitting on Maelstrom crystals, sell them now before they price drops, and it will. It is a welcome change, in that enchants will be cheap again.

[Alarra]

The Drake boss with the stalagmites isn't hard if.
It isn't hard if people can think in two directions at once. They have to have their line to the boss, and a line to the healer, and if possible a line to a safe spot when you get lava patches/crystal shot AoE that you have to LoS.
Most people can't keep track of all that. Healers have to have a line to everyone, and a line to safety. Yeah.

I hate that boss. Every time I try to cast anything longer than an instant whoever I was trying to heal runs behind a damn rock. I usually just make sure I have a line to the tank and hope the dps are either a. smart enough to get a line to me if they're in trouble, or b. aren't going to die if left to their own devices.

[Psyren]

Yeah, the drake boss stood out to me as a problem area for heroic. The dps was just plain bad at LoSing the shards and avoiding the traps, but luckily the tank was pretty sturdy so I could devote a bit more time to chasing them around. I just know that would have been a wipe though if it were much tougher. I also got a nifty stala near the beginning that I could keep ducking behind, and lucked out with no lava patches until the end.

Osruk... Osruk hits like a semi, taped to a panzer, strapped to an aircraft carrier. He probably eats fel reavers like potato chips.

The last boss I actually enjoyed, getting piles of Twilight fans to chase me through void zones and scream "Bella!" as they died. :smalltongue:

It's bad though that I'm dreading 85 more and more with every bubble filled. :smallfrown:



On a lighter note, I got off my duff and soloed a bunch of BC content to get my Kara key. My guild will probably be doing a run in the near future for shiggles - all in-character :smallbiggrin:

Plus I love the BC set designs. I'm also getting Svet a Nether Ray to ride, since nobody seems to be using them anymore.

[Karoht]

I'm usually quite relieved when I see everyone stack up on the Drake boss, because there is no reason why you can't, so long as you scatter at the right times, then stack back up. But the few groups I've seen do this, it works wonders.

[Eakin]

I gess there was a big wave of bans that came down over the last couple days. Including me for "abuse of the economy" ie goldbuying/selling. I filed a ticket on battle.net basically pleading not guilty. It would really suck to lose a 5 year old account to a false accusation.

I guess I could have been hacked? I haven't clicked any fake links or shared my password anywhere. Running a deep scan on my antivirus software to see if I picked anything up.

Anyone know how often blizz will overturn a ban?

[term1nally s1ck]

I already had one overturned. If you claim foul, they tend to overturn it and get you to change your password. If it happens again after that...good luck.

[Eakin]

Yeah, I'd be getting an authenticator.

No way would I ever start over. If they won't unban me I'm walking away for good.

...maybe I should hope they DON'T unban me...

[Zherog]

With both my priest and shammy needing some downtime to get their rested XP back, I decided to bite the bullet, so to speak, and hit a random dungeon in order to get the process rolling for getting my hunter progressing. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the estimated wait time was only 15 minutes. I was even more surprised when the actual wait time was under 10! And as an added bonus, I finally got Lost City -- hadn't had that one yet on my rogue.

Things went smooth; got an upgraded cloak and ring. Yay. After completing that one, I queued again, given the low wait. This time I was told it was a 17 minutes wait, but again it popped in under 10.

I don't mind 10-15 minute waits at all. That allows me 2-3 runs a night. Yay!

[Zeb The Troll]

Basically I'm looking for the simple answer of which one of the WoW RPPVP Realms (Twisting Nether, The Venture Co, Ravenholdt, Maelstrom, Lightninghoof, and Emerald Dream) are the best. I thought about posting this to the World's End Tavern Forum, (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1011637/) but I didn't feel this was specific enough for what I want.

Since one of the major facets of D&D is the aspect of Roleplaying, I figured that the Playground would be a far better place to ask my question.

Which of the aforementioned realms have both good PVP and RP opportunities, as well as a community which upholds the statutes of a true RPPVP Realm?

P.S. I would really prefer if this thread didn't become a massive troll war for superiority of whose realm is the best...Just quoting this so that it doesn't get missed since I merged the threads.

[Alarra]

Having played on twisting nether, emerald dream and maelstrom, I have to say I much preferred maelstrom to the other two. Of course this was back in 2006-2007, so I've really no idea how they compare currently. I will say, however, that my time on maelstrom was hands down the most fun I have ever had in wow and the only time I really embraced the rp potential of the game.

[GolemsVoice]

Yeah, I'd be getting an authenticator.

No way would I ever start over. If they won't unban me I'm walking away for good.

...maybe I should hope they DON'T unban me...

From what I heard, Blizzard is surprisingly reasonable when it comes to such accusations, but sometimes they get a little zealous.

[Psyren]

Get the app authenticator, you get a core hound puppy if you do. :smallsmile:
There is both an iPhone and Android version (not sure about Blackberry.)

"Who piddled wava on the dwiveway? YOU did! Yes YOU!"

[Karoht]

"What's you're achievement score?"

My cheevo score?
Over. Nine. Thou-saaaaaaaand.
*celebratory kick of person/s down a hole*

(I need to macro that)

Got an achievement for second-last boss in Lost City. Also managed to pick up Gurubashi Arena Master this morning as well. Stranglethorn is rather empty at 9am server, FYI.

[JediSoth]

Get the app authenticator, you get a core hound puppy if you do. :smallsmile:
There is both an iPhone and Android version (not sure about Blackberry.)

"Who piddled wava on the dwiveway? YOU did! Yes YOU!"

So that's where I got the core hound puppy from? Shows how much I pay attention.

My only problem with the authenticator is when I set up my iPhone to sync just before I launch WoW. Unfortunately, I can't use apps and sync at the same time. *sigh*

[Zherog]

So during one of my instance runs last night, it was "suggested" that I need to get a different pet than the bear I currently have. I've had the bear since I was level 10 and could pick up a pet; the only other pets I've ever had were the couple I picked up back when you had to get one pet to teach tricks to your main pet. But I never kept any of 'em, relying instead on Pooh as I worked my way up in levels.

Now, the whole "get a DPS pet, you #$^ hunter" makes sense, even if the guy was a jerk about the way he said it. Having a bear was great for leveling, because it meant I always had a tank. But given the short wait times on queues on my server, I'm looking to maybe use my hunter more, and so I want to do what I can to be the most efficient possible.

So... any recommendations on what I should add as a pet? (Or, alternatively, if the suggester was way off base and I'll do just fine with my bear, that'd be good to know too.)

[Psyren]

Vitriol aside, it does make some sense. If your job is to do damage and your pet is Tenacity, you will be less effective at your primary job. Now, where groups will love you is if the tank dies or if offtanking is needed, but neither is likely to happen in a 5-man. It's like a warlock using his voidwalker in an instance.

Having said that, my knowledge of hunters is pretty light, so I have no suggestions to offer.

[tyckspoon]

So... any recommendations on what I should add as a pet? (Or, alternatively, if the suggester was way off base and I'll do just fine with my bear, that'd be good to know too.)

Good pet specials for..
DPS:
Wolf: Crit chance bonus (party buff)
Cat: Str/Agi buff (party buff)
Raptor: Sunder/ Expose Armor debuff (boss-fighting debuff)

Helping the tank:
Carrion Bird: 10% physical damage reduction debuff
Tallstriders (plainstriders): Thunderclap attack speed debuff (mind, most tanks have some way of causing this themselves, but they might not have an AoE version to do it to the entire pull the way Thunderclap does.)

..basically just grab one of the Ferocity pets and move on. Although if I were the tank, I wouldn't mind having a bear around, especially if I didn't have something that did the 10% damage reduction myself- just turn off its Growl autocast to limit the chance that it pulls something off me.

Edit: For best results, grab 2-3 of the above and change active pets based on party composition. For example, Leader of the Pack gives Crit strike bonus, so if you have a Feral Druid around use the Cat. Warrior Tank? Well, Battle Shout does the Str/Agi buff, Thunderclap does the attack speed debuff- good time to have a Wolf out, or maybe Carrion Bird if you want the tank to have a little easier time of it.

[Gauntlet]

Back in WotLK Wolves were the pet of choice. Now, I believe most of the pets from that type are pretty much the same, so a wolf or cat or raptor would probably work reasonably well.

[AgentPaper]

All of the ferocity pets do the same damage, and all of their buffs are also provided by a few classes at least. Some of those are probably more common than others, but unless you're providing a specific buff for your regular raid group that lacks the classes for it, then you're free to choose whichever pet species you like the look of best.

Using cunning or tenacity pets is generally a bad idea. The only times you'd want to use one is if there's a specific encounter where you could use an additional tank, or where one of the cunning pet's abilities is very useful.

And it probably goes without saying, but if you're a beastmastery-specced hunter, then by all that is holy use an exotic pet.

[Zherog]

Vitriol aside, it does make some sense. If your job is to do damage and your pet is Tenacity, you will be less effective at your primary job. Now, where groups will love you is if the tank dies or if offtanking is needed, but neither is likely to happen in a 5-man. It's like a warlock using his voidwalker in an instance.

Yeah, Ironically that happened in the same run the guy complained about me having a bear. Something or other happened and the tank dropped, followed by the two melee DPS. I turned Growl back on and switched to aggressive, and then my bear, the healer, and I went to town taking down the three remaining mobs. (to be sort of fair, one of the three died after I shot it once.)

I guess I'll make time to go out and grab a DPS pet and level it...

[tyckspoon]

Using cunning or tenacity pets is generally a bad idea. The only times you'd want to use one is if there's a specific encounter where you could use an additional tank, or where one of the cunning pet's abilities is very useful.


Specifically, I think there could be decently common spots to use a Gorilla or a Nether Ray, because you can never have too many interrupts.

[AgentPaper]

Fortunately for you, it'll automatically be raised to just a few levels below you once you tame it. (Which can result in hilarity such as taming a level 1 wolf pup and then having it tear a Fel Reaver a new one immediately afterwards) And don't worry about specifically leveling it, just do what you normally do and it'll level up soon enough. Nobody will care or even notice that your pet isn't max level, anyways.

[Leon]

Ha ha Whiny Tanks (a DK in this case) never get old - when they are in BoAs and lvl 70 PvP gear they are not going to keep threat vs a Hunter in mostly Cata greens with a blue Cata staff.

That and i had 29k health buffed to his 22k buffed. Both lvl 78.
MD helped but not much.

Normally Hunters health is 26k and crit is 35% - its Awesome


I Solo with a Boar and have a random selection of Ferocity and Cunning Pets for Dungeons depending on what ones i am leveling at the time, but i really like my Ravager and Blue Dog


Nobody will care or even notice that your pet isn't max level, anyways.
You may even get a Grats for pet ding

[tyckspoon]

Ha ha Whiny Tanks (a DK in this case) never get old - when they are in BoAs and lvl 70 PvP gear they are not going to keep threat vs a Hunter in mostly Cata greens with a blue Cata staff.


I've been in that situation on both sides, although never that badly undergeared.. the important thing to remember on the tank part of that is: if the DPS is capable of pulling something off you (given that you are generally tanking properly and have not simply failed to put any threat at all on the mob), they're probably capable of dealing with it. This is particularly true of ranged DPS; when I'm the tank in that situation, I'll just let it go. Maybe taunt it just when it reaches the DPS. By the time it's done yo-yoing back and forth between me and the player shooting it, it's usually dead and the problem is solved.

On the DPS side, if I'm pulling from the tank it's either sheer accident, for which I will apologize after the pull (I'm still not quite used to playing Hunter, so I will occasionally tab-target something in the next pull and auto-shoot it before I realize it's that far away and not one of the three mobs standing next to the tank) or I'm doing it in the full knowledge and expectation that that mob becomes my problem. If the tank wants to taunt it or the healer wants to give me a top-off, that's very nice of them, but I'm not going to expect it of them.

[Blayze]

When I tank and there's a Hunter, I usually ask them to put Growl *on*. It's less of a repair bill for me since I won't be getting hit as much, and less tanking I have to do anyway.

[TheEmerged]

Due to a fix applied earlier today a bug was introduced that is causing bosses which have any ‘fixate’ abilities, meaning those that will fixate on and/or chase a certain player, to not function correctly. This is currently noticeable for most players on Atramedes in normal or heroic, and Ascendant Council and Sinestra on heroic, but affects a great number of other bosses throughout the game.

We have a fix currently in the testing stages but it will require realm restarts to apply. We’re currently anticipating rolling restarts to happen early tomorrow morning during off-peak hours. We apologize for any inconvenience for those attempting bosses tonight with these mechanics.

/humor
That's supposed to be a new bug? I've been experiencing that since I started playing WoW. I've been able to kite bosses in some dungeons using that (most recently in Heroic DeadMines). I had Murmur use his touch on me four times in a row more than just once or twice... ;)

[Karoht]

/humor
That's supposed to be a new bug? I've been experiencing that since I started playing WoW. I've been able to kite bosses in some dungeons using that (most recently in Heroic DeadMines). I had Murmur use his touch on me four times in a row more than just once or twice... ;)
With the /humor still in mind...
Actually, they mention Atramedes, and almost every time I go in there during the air phase, it says he's fixated on bob but is actually chasing steve. Or it says he's chasing me, I'm already running, hit dash, and bout 5 seconds later, his death laser is already on top of me and I'm dead. Now in this case it might be lag, but the fixates have been weird on this encounter for a bit now. Same with Cho'gall and his slimes, same with Toxitron and his slimes, and they had a similar issue in early testing with Professor Putricide back in the day on the PTR.

[Psyren]

When I tank and there's a Hunter, I usually ask them to put Growl *on*. It's less of a repair bill for me since I won't be getting hit as much, and less tanking I have to do anyway.

Repair costs? What are those? :smalltongue:

Well, time to leave work and log on :smallsmile:

[TheEmerged]

With the /humor still in mind...
Actually, they mention Atramedes, and almost every time I go in there during the air phase, it says he's fixated on bob but is actually chasing steve. Or it says he's chasing me, I'm already running, hit dash, and bout 5 seconds later, his death laser is already on top of me and I'm dead. Now in this case it might be lag, but the fixates have been weird on this encounter for a bit now. Same with Cho'gall and his slimes, same with Toxitron and his slimes, and they had a similar issue in early testing with Professor Putricide back in the day on the PTR.

Oooooh, so it's the reverse of the symptom I usually see :smallbiggrin: