Raziel the Soulreaver. Make him! [3,5]

[aazru]

I want to play Raziel =] ponder up a build for a game I might join. I'm away from books i have and I would like it to be Psionic/Incarnum(never played both and will borrow books from DM). Any advise, comments and builds are welcome. Can you give some guidance before I bury myself in relevant books?
3,5. About 4-7 people in party, tier 3-4. Maybe gestalt, or some variation of it. I can get a big LA(5-8) buy off if I don't use equipment.
I'll tell you what I want - you tell me how I can get it :)
First, the undeadness. I don't like being tied to negative energy. Is there some undeadish creature that fits Raziel? Constructs? I like Incarnum for its soul-stuff feel X) but don't know anything about it except what I've read in this forum.
Planeshifting. It dose not have to be one of the "big" ones like astral or shadow. DM said he can make some spirit realm just for my use :D I need some ideas and mechanics.
Soulsucking. I've seen some mention of an Incarnum prc that used souls of defeated foes to get stronger. What was it? how usable it was? Any other ones like that?
Powers. Here is where psionics come in. Psywar? I'm not familiar with his power list.
Wraith Blade. :smallbiggrin: Soulknife?

Any ideas on the whole thing or parts of it?

[Talbot]

Necropolitan is your race. 0 LA (well, kinda one, but not really), Undead, plus you still keep all your cool racial stuff from whatever your base race was (and it's human, if you're making Raziel. Enjoy your bonus feat and skillpoints and all your Undead immunities).

Psywar with the Mind Blade ACF is probably the way to go for most of it.

[Psyren]

Hmm... Necropolitan with Undead Meldshaper (to use your Wis score instead of Con) and then for the sword, Use Person_Man's excellent Soulknife+Soulborn hybrid, the War Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156441) (itself an update of Xallace's Soulblade.)

Have him use a Necrocarnum-esque harvesting mechanic to represent the soul eating and you should be all set.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I remember seeing a build for him in the wizard boards.. it was part of a project to stat as many videogame characters as possible.

I don't remember the exact build, but it was a Feral (SS) Human with some soulknife levels and that weapon of legacy that could turn into a mindblade.

[aazru]

Psywar with the Mind Blade ACF is probably the way to go for most of it.

Where can I find this ACF?
nwm :smallbiggrin: found it. Soulbound Weapon.
Is there a way to boost that minblade?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Where can I find this ACF?

Mind's Eye article, basically an ACF rendered the soulknife even more pointless.

[Psyren]

Is there a way to boost that minblade?

Yes: it scales automatically with your ML, and you can augment it as well to add enhancements. Doing this, you can end up with a +9 blade (+5 bonus, +4 enhancements) just like a straight soulknife, as well as your normal suite of powers etc.

What makes it even funnier is that the feat you spend to get this ability is refunded through free Weapon Focus; there's no reason not to get this ACF.

Interestingly, there is no restriction on the enhancements you can add to your weapon other than their point value, so you can pull from the DMG list, MIC list, XPH list, and even obscure properties like Shadow Striking.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Yes: it scales automatically with your ML, and you can augment it as well to add enhancements. Doing this, you can end up with a +9 blade (+5 bonus, +4 enhancements) just like a straight soulknife, as well as your normal suite of powers etc.

What makes it even funnier is that the feat you spend to get this ability is refunded through free Weapon Focus; there's no reason not to get this ACF.

Interestingly, there is no restriction on the enhancements you can add to your weapon other than their point value, so you can pull from the DMG list, MIC list, XPH list, and even obscure properties like Shadow Striking.

And I think you can even overchannel (with talented of course) to get even more mileage out it :smallsmile:

[Thurbane]

Soulsucking is the province of the Soul Eater PrC, but not exactly a fit for this build.

The Harvester of Souls feat (EE) lets you destroy an opponents soul on a CDG attack.

If you want undead-esque without actually being Undead, Half-vampire template and the Tomb Tainted Soul feats are an option.

[Pechvarry]

Hmm... Necropolitan with Undead Meldshaper (to use your Wis score instead of Con) and then for the sword, Use Person_Man's excellent Soulknife+Soulborn hybrid, the War Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156441) (itself an update of Xallace's Soulblade.)

Have him use a Necrocarnum-esque harvesting mechanic to represent the soul eating and you should be all set.

You could just use Necrocarnate Weapon + Incarnate Weapon (hands and arms, respectively). Super, if you can find a way for such a build to render opponents helpless for Coup de Graces (for the extra temp incarnum as well as the flavor of Raziel always beating down his opponents to a stupor before finally harvesting).

[aazru]

Yes, Psywar with soulbound weapon seems perfect.
About soul harvesting, Raziel didn't destroy souls, he just sucked them out for power and powers =] that's why I thought Incarnum to fit like a glove. I had an idea to use Incarnum to fuel power points(and meldshaping), there was some feat that gave PP from essentia investing. And I remember there was a way to get essentia from kills.
I'll get MiC as soon as I can, tell me where to look in it X).

[Thurbane]

About soul harvesting, Raziel didn't destroy souls, he just sucked them out for power and powers =]
Well, the Harvester of Souls feat does give you temporary hit points based on the HD of the creature you kill.

[BobVosh]

I'm curious where you are going to get broken wings they can glide on. Is there some sorta graft, going to just say "custom magic item of feather fall"

[Eldan]

Raptoran race? At low levels, they can only glide.

[true_shinken]

The problem with the PSywar ACF is that you're spending a standard action to get your weapon at the beginning of each fight. And this sucks.

[Hazzardevil]

And it only lasts one minute per manifester level, at low levels that shoots you in teh foot, paticuerly with low pp.

[Psyren]

The problem with the PSywar ACF is that you're spending a standard action to get your weapon at the beginning of each fight. And this sucks.

And that's terrible (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle643yzv8u?from=Main.AndThatsTerrible) :smallwink:

1) You can manifest it before a lot of fights. (e.g. the party is about to kick in the door - that would be a good time to whip it out.)

2) Nothing's stopping you from carrying a backup weapon in case you're caught by surprise. It's not like the Soulbound one is taking any of your WBL away.

3) Quicken Power + Metapower lets you call it as a swift fairly early in your career.


And it only lasts one minute per manifester level, at low levels that shoots you in teh foot, paticuerly with low pp.

A minute is 10 rounds; how long do your combats last?

And again, keep a backup weapon.

[true_shinken]

And that's terrible (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle643yzv8u?from=Main.AndThatsTerrible) :smallwink:
Except it is, Psyren. Action economy is the name of the game and you have people so frequently telling how Soulbound Weapon makes the WotC Soulknife obsolete you'd think they are ignoring this. Soulbound Weapon spends powers points and a standard action. Mindblade just needs a move action (eventually a free action) and keeps your PP intact.
If someone sunders your Soulbound Weapon, you're pretty much screwed. It's like a buff that anyone with a weapon can dispel. With actual weapons you might get greedy oponents not targeting it, but Soulbound Weapon is not loot, so...


1) You can manifest it before a lot of fights. (e.g. the party is about to kick in the door - that would be a good time to whip it out.)
And you can't sometimes. Get ready to get your ass kicked in ambushes.


2) Nothing's stopping you from carrying a backup weapon in case you're caught by surprise. It's not like the Soulbound one is taking any of your WBL away.
Then I woudn't bother with Soulbound Weapon. Also, this thread is about Raziel. He had no backup weapons on him AFAIK.


3) Quicken Power + Metapower lets you call it as a swift fairly early in your career.
So you have to spend, what, two feats to catch up with a Soulknife? Wow, that's an amazing ACF. :smallamused:

[Pechvarry]

Then I woudn't bother with Soulbound Weapon. Also, this thread is about Raziel. He had no backup weapons on him AFAIK.

Actually, it fits very well. Relying on weapons other than his Soul Reaver is a constant factor of Soul Reaver I and II. IIRC, it played much less of a role the further you went into the series as the quality of life of your wraith-blade improved. This seems roughly analogous to a Psychic Warrior leveling up and needing to rely on man-made weaponry less.

[Waker]

It's been many a year since I played as Raziel, but you might want to remember that he used more than his blade, he was quite an unarmed combatant as well. Whether you would want to represent this as claws or improved unarmed strike is up to you. Could be amusing to see him start off with levels of Ranger that has Favored Enemy (Undead) or Monk/Psy Warrior with Talashtora or whatever it's called.

[aazru]

I've got a quick look at MoI. Psywar fits better X) the mindblade is that much better and versatile. tho I've found some interesting stuff. Necrocarnate Weapon soulmeld(2 feats to bind this) incarnum/psionic feats and SOULBOUND WEAPON(an encancement with the sane name as psywars acf) :smallbiggrin: I have an idea how to use some of it but I need your advice on how it works(if it works at all).

Bound Necrocarnum Weapon lets your weapon of choice get temporary essentia on crits. Azure Talent lets you invest essentia for power points. If it was permanent essentia I would not ask this, but it is temporary. So can I invest again to get power points after it fades away? This is soul sucky enough to invest 3 feats :smallbiggrin: if it works as I want...

If this combo works and I have spare essentia, there is soulbound weapon enhancement that lets you invest essentia into that weapon for more +1 bonuses. It can be bound to chakras for some bonuses but lets leave that for later. My question - is it worth it? At +1 and 2 essentia it gives +3 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls. At +3 and 4 essentia it gives +5.

And for last - are the rest of incarnum/psionic feats any good?

btw There is a soulmeld that gives permanent fether fall and + to jump cheks from essentia. And it looks like wings(refluff to look like broken ones)! :smallbiggrin:

[drakir_nosslin]

I'd say that psychic warrior with souldbound weapon would fit quite nicely, as Raziel fights a lot with natural weapons, something that PW does nicely. As for race, raptoran necropolitan would probably be the easiest way.

And Raziel do use other weapons in the games, and in SR II he loses access to the reaver as soon as he takes any damage IIRC, so often there's more fighting with the claws/picked up swords than with the reaver.

As for the action economy thing, I'd say that losing a standard action in some fights is better than sucking all the time. Because that's what the soulknife does.

[true_shinken]

And Raziel do use other weapons in the games, and in SR II he loses access to the reaver as soon as he takes any damage IIRC, so often there's more fighting with the claws/picked up swords than with the reaver.
Really? Then I stand corrected.

[drakir_nosslin]

Really? Then I stand corrected.

I think so at least, but it was over 8 years since I played it, so I might be mistaken on the reaver bit, but I do remember fighting with the claws quite a lot. Though that might have been me being sucky at games :smalltongue:

[CockroachTeaParty]

Race seems the hardest thing to most accurately recreate for Raziel. He was a vampire, but then he was turned into an ethereal-dwelling soul-vampire thing.

I'm not sure if there's a template for an ethereal plane-dwelling creature... Considering the influence of the awesomely-Tony-Jay-voiced Elder God, half-farspawn or pseudonatural might be fitting as well.

So what is Raziel? Some kind of pseudonatural evolved ethereal vampire? Or is he more like a manifesting ghost, considering when his physical form is destroyed he simply returns to the ethereal?

[drakir_nosslin]

Well, there's the psychic vampire version in Libris Mortis, but I don't remember what it looks like, and I'm AWFB right now. Probably too much LA anyway.

[Psyren]

Except it is, Psyren. Action economy is the name of the game and you have people so frequently telling how Soulbound Weapon makes the WotC Soulknife obsolete you'd think they are ignoring this. Soulbound Weapon spends powers points and a standard action. Mindblade just needs a move action (eventually a free action) and keeps your PP intact.
If someone sunders your Soulbound Weapon, you're pretty much screwed. It's like a buff that anyone with a weapon can dispel. With actual weapons you might get greedy oponents not targeting it, but Soulbound Weapon is not loot, so...

NPCs don't care about loot. If they are going to sunder your gear they are going to sunder it whether or not you can pull it from the ether. In which case I would rather them sunder the +9 sword that I can recreate than the one I blew most of my WBL to get.

This is doubly true for monsters like Rust X that exist only to sunder your stuff.


And you can't sometimes. Get ready to get your ass kicked in ambushes.

I wouldn't, because I would have a backup weapon.


Then I woudn't bother with Soulbound Weapon.

That is far too rainbow fluffy optimistic for my tastes. What kind of warrior only has one weapon?


Also, this thread is about Raziel. He had no backup weapons on him AFAIK.

In which case you have to make a choice between being faithful to the source material and being prepared. Last time I checked there were no initiative rolls or sundering in LoK, so you are well-advised to make some changes to account for D&D's different universe.


So you have to spend, what, two feats to catch up with a Soulknife? Wow, that's an amazing ACF. :smallamused:

Because Quicken Power is only good for drawing weapons! :smallsigh:
In your attempts at snark you're utterly discounting the value of these feats.

Also, listen to yourself. You're worried about action economy on a Psywar. Really?

[aazru]

Well I wanted to address that after I get the feel of abilities, but...
for now I see Raziels base as Feral Azurine. It gives bonus feat, 1 essentia(and general blueness), darkvision, claw attacks :smallbiggrin: and other goodies as increased movement speed. All that at LA-1. I can add necropolitan if needed. DnD undead =/= LoK undead. I'm going for the feel of it.
As for the other stuff, is there a way to make him bound to the plane of shadow? I mean if Raziel gets destroyed on material plane he gets banished to plane of shadow(which is a twisted version of material plane) and can be finally killed only there. That would be the feel of LoK Raziel. =]] He could die ad infinitum when manifested and die hard in shadow realm.

[drakir_nosslin]

Well, if I remember correctly, summoned creatures don't die when brought to 0 HP, they are sent back to their plane of origin instead. So, make him an outsider native to the shadow plane and have someone summon him :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Found it:

A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

EDIT2: Dark Template from ToM perhaps? I don't remember if that makes you native to the plane of shadows.

[true_shinken]

NPCs don't care about loot.
...that makes no sense whatsoever. You mean a mercenary won't think about bringing home a sword that is worth more than the contract to kill Adventurer A? :smallconfused:


That is far too rainbow fluffy optimistic for my tastes. What kind of warrior only has one weapon?
Most builds, surprisingly. Just take a look at Iron Chef.



Also, listen to yourself. You're worried about action economy on a Psywar. Really?
Last I checked, Psywars still needed full attacks as much as anyone else, so I can't see how it's not relevant.

[aazru]

Well, if I remember correctly, summoned creatures don't die when brought to 0 HP, they are sent back to their plane of origin instead. So, make him an outsider native to the shadow plane and have someone summon him :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Found it:


EDIT2: Dark Template from ToM perhaps? I don't remember if that makes you native to the plane of shadows.

Is there a way to summon yourself? :smallbiggrin:
EDIT: the Dark template could work and it's only +1 =] any coments on this?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well the Shadow Template (LoM and MotP) is in a sense the Dark template big brother, it gets shadow blend which is essentially HiPS++++, any time you are not on full daylight, you get a continuous 50% concealment, which apart from protecting you against targeted attacks, enable hiding when you want.

It also gets a a 1/day plane shift to the plane of shadows or from the plane of shadows. From my reading of the second part you essentially can plane shift to any plane you want, as long as you started your planar travel in the plane of shadows.

It is a LA+2 template, so even with feral you will be able to buy it off pre-epic.

[Psyren]

...that makes no sense whatsoever. You mean a mercenary won't think about bringing home a sword that is worth more than the contract to kill Adventurer A? :smallconfused:

I mean that if the DM is using monsters that sunder, it's probably because he wants them to sunder. The weapon you use won't change that.

NPC sundering is a jerk tactic anyway, but if it were used against me I'd much rather it be used on my ectoplasmic weapon than my expensive one.


Most builds, surprisingly. Just take a look at Iron Chef.

Of course they do. Their second weapon wouldn't free. A SW Psywar's would be.


Last I checked, Psywars still needed full attacks as much as anyone else, so I can't see how it's not relevant.

And there's a hundred ways for them to get those full attacks even on the same turn they summon a weapon. Which they only have to do once anyway.

[aazru]

I had a word with DM. He'll investigate Feral template before approving(can someone tell me whats the problem with it and how it really works?). Dark template is a yes and I negotiated speed boost from it changed to a gliding ability. It makes you native to plane of shadow, tell me where and what too look for about that summoning idea?