Imbue Arrow

[HappyBlanket]

So I'm planning on making an Arcane Archer soon, being particularly interested in the Imbue Arrow ability. Mechanically, it lets me substitute a spell's range for a bow's range. Aesthetically, it's just really cool. At least I think it is, depending on what spell I use.

Anyone have any ideas as to how Imbue Arrow can be made useful? Or at least any ideas as to how it can be made really cool? Any experiences with an Arcane Archer is also appreciated.

[The Cat Goddess]

So I'm planning on making an Arcane Archer soon, being particularly interested in the Imbue Arrow ability. Mechanically, it lets me substitute a spell's range for a bow's range. Aesthetically, it's just really cool. At least I think it is, depending on what spell I use.

Anyone have any ideas as to how Imbue Arrow can be made useful? Or at least any ideas as to how it can be made really cool? Any experiences with an Arcane Archer is also appreciated.

Common thought is, that unless you at least take the Pathfinder version (that also increases spell progression), Arcane Archer is a bad thing.

[gorfnab]

Imbue Arrow really shines with spells that have a longer casting time, since It reduces the casting time down to a standard action. Some spells to consider would be Shrink Item, Shout, Antimagic Field, and "Symbol" spells. As for a build I recommend Bard 8/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist or Ruathar 3.

[HappyBlanket]

Common thought is, that unless you at least take the Pathfinder version (that also increases spell progression), Arcane Archer is a bad thing.

...Ah. I did not catch that. I imagine a lack of spell progression would be a rather... Significant issue.
So I'm certain I'll be using the Pathfinder version, even if it needs DM intervention. Question still stands. Resilient Sphere sounds hilarious, makes me feel like Erika from Pokemon Special.

Do touch spells work with Imbue Arrow?


Imbue Arrow really shines with spells that have a longer casting time, since It reduces the casting time down to a standard action. As for a build I recommend Bard 8/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist or Ruathar 3. Some spells to consider would be Shrink Item, Shout, Antimagic Field, and "Symbol" spells.

...That's a significant amount of multiclassing.

[Urpriest]

The fact that the ability specifies that the spell's area is centered on where the arrow lands makes me think that it only works for spells with an area...but the ability doesn't actually specify this. Essentially the people designing it forgot that some spells aren't fireball.



...That's a significant amount of multiclassing.

There's no multiclassing in that build. While taking a prestige class is like multiclassing, they're different terms.

[gomipile]

One neat thing you can do, if your DM allows it, is put Spell Storing on a bow. Then just play a caster with feats and spells that boost your ranged attacks, and single target spells to charge the bow with. With the right combination of goodies you can get insane range this way, with relatively little investment and full caster progression for your class.

[ericgrau]

If you're going to focus on imbue arrow then be a caster and dip only one level into arcane archer. Normally the class is supposed to be a martial class, but losing 1 caster level for something that becomes very powerful on high level spells won't be the end of the world. As with any build, however, going 50:50 on martial/casting is devastating and will be the end of the world. Dip one or the other, don't split your focus.

This is where 90% of complaints about the class come from. It's right in the DMG that pure wizards make lousy arcane archers, but eh no one pays attention. The other 10% come from a rather complicated level of optimization on the martial side that I won't get into because it has nothing to do with happyblanket's goals.

[gorfnab]

If you're going to focus on imbue arrow then be a caster and dip only one level into arcane archer. Normally the class is supposed to be a martial class, but losing 1 caster level for something that becomes very powerful on high level spells won't be the end of the world. As with any build, however, going 50:50 on martial/casting is devastating and will be the end of the world. Dip one or the other, don't split your focus.

This is where 90% of complaints about the class come from. It's right in the DMG that pure wizards make lousy arcane archers, but eh no one pays attention. The other 10% come from a rather complicated level of optimization on the martial side that I won't get into because it has nothing to do with happyblanket's goals.
Imbue Arrow is gained at the second level of Arcane Archer.

[HappyBlanket]

So the vibe I'm getting is... Arcane Archers kinda suck.

I'll look over Gorfnab's build, but odds are anything I make won't be interesting or useful enough to justify use (at least not as a PC). I can't even justify Imbue Arrow to give range to touch attacks, since Spectral Hand can do that anyway.

[Cespenar]

One neat thing you can do, if your DM allows it, is put Spell Storing on a bow. Then just play a caster with feats and spells that boost your ranged attacks, and single target spells to charge the bow with. With the right combination of goodies you can get insane range this way, with relatively little investment and full caster progression for your class.

So, I put Fireball into my spellstoring bow, then imbue another Fireball and shoot someone. If you hit, bam, 2 Fireballs? Quicken Spell, essentially?

Never thought about this. Does it work that way?

[Sith_Happens]

Quick question, if you have a splitting bow and use Imbue Arrow, what happens?

[HappyBlanket]

As long as you Quicken as a non-spontaneous caster, looks like it. But I read the suggestion as an alternative to Imbue Arrow entirely - instead of using the class feature at all, just have a spell storing bow.
Woops. Read that wrong.

Not too sure about Splitting.

[ffone]

I think Ces is referring not to using Quicken Spell, but wondering if you can use Imbue Arrow on an arrow with which you're also dischagring a spell storing bow's stored spell - in effect 'casting' two spells (and doing physical arrow damage!) with the same standard action (almost as if one were Quickened.)

AFAICT this seems RAW, and is a great idea. If you're high level and wealthy, consider having several +1 spell storing bows (with augment crystals of return for free-action draw) so that you can do this several times per encounter.

[ericgrau]

Imbue Arrow is gained at the second level of Arcane Archer.

Right then 2 level dip :smalltongue:.

[senrath]

I think Ces is referring not to using Quicken Spell, but wondering if you can use Imbue Arrow on an arrow with which you're also dischagring a spell storing bow's stored spell - in effect 'casting' two spells (and doing physical arrow damage!) with the same standard action (almost as if one were Quickened.)

AFAICT this seems RAW, and is a great idea. If you're high level and wealthy, consider having several +1 spell storing bows (with augment crystals of return for free-action draw) so that you can do this several times per encounter.

As far as I'm aware, Spell Storing can only be placed on Melee weapons, sadly.

[JaronK]

Imbue Arrow combos amazingly with Minor Creation. Just use Minor Creation to make gallons of Sinmaker's Surprise or Black Lotus Poison (both plant based) and the target is dead, as is everyone around them. Remember, if a dose of poison is an ounce (which is a bit much even, considering a dose works on a shuriken) then a 1 foot cube is nearly 1000 doses. Anyone not immune to poison is dead (and with Sinmaker's Surprise, Acid immunity is also needed).

JaronK

[mint]

The PF Arcane Archer is kind of delightful.
Sculpt spell might be fun?
You can increase the range of wall spells somewhat.
Teleportation spells?

[HappyBlanket]

This is starting to sound more optimistic than it used to. Still kinda disappointed by the inability to Imbue a Teleport though.
Edit: I must have this Pathfinder AA. I haven't looked at it yet, but can I get the main differences?


As far as I'm aware, Spell Storing can only be placed on Melee weapons, sadly.

Nothing a houserule can't fix. I'm already going for spell progression anyway, so might as well ask for that favor if I have too.


Imbue Arrow combos amazingly with Minor Creation. Just use Minor Creation to make gallons of Sinmaker's Surprise or Black Lotus Poison (both plant based) and the target is dead, as is everyone around them. Remember, if a dose of poison is an ounce (which is a bit much even, considering a dose works on a shuriken) then a 1 foot cube is nearly 1000 doses. Anyone not immune to poison is dead (and with Sinmaker's Surprise, Acid immunity is also needed).

JaronK

Fascinating. Is there a way for me to get a wider spread with this? Call me greedy, but it seems a waste to give 1000 doses to a single target.

[nedz]

As far as I'm aware, Spell Storing can only be placed on Melee weapons, sadly.

Well its not in the Random Treasure table for Ranged Weapons, but the text mentions nothing about it. The FAQ is silent on the issue.

Ed: sp

[Cespenar]

Imbue Arrow combos amazingly with Minor Creation. Just use Minor Creation to make gallons of Sinmaker's Surprise or Black Lotus Poison (both plant based) and the target is dead, as is everyone around them. Remember, if a dose of poison is an ounce (which is a bit much even, considering a dose works on a shuriken) then a 1 foot cube is nearly 1000 doses. Anyone not immune to poison is dead (and with Sinmaker's Surprise, Acid immunity is also needed).

JaronK

Imbue Arrow requires an "area spell" to be imbued. Just what constitutes an area spell is arguable, but seeing that Minor Creation even lacks an area entry in its description, I don't assume it's valid.

[gomipile]

The biggest limitation of spell storing isn't the ranged/melee thing, its the fact that it only works with targeted spells. So you can't store a fireball and get two fireballs.

What you could do is store a scorching ray and imbue a fireball, and get both of those.

And about ranged with spell storing, just because it isn't explicitly permitted, doesn't mean it is forbidden. Anyway, it is something one should bring up with one's DM, preferably with some interesting backstory and tying it in with your character concept to make it palatable.

[Prime32]

Play a duskblade. Make Arcane Channeling ranged rather than melee. You are now an arcane archer.

Play a (battle) sorcerer. Switch your inexpensive material components to "Focus: any bow", and describe your spells as arrows (take Spell Thematics [arrows] if you want). You are now an arcane archer.

[ericgrau]

The pathfinder AA is a gish and an arcane archer rolled into one. Since it's still not full caster progression, I likewise wouldn't take it for more than a dip. Might as well take it to level 4 before the 2nd lost caster level though, simply for another +1 BAB. That's assuming you want to focus on imbue arrow casting. If you want a gish too then by all means try it out.

The main thing is finding good spells to imbue. You can use this spell searcher, setting "aiming" to "area": http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20spellfilter/ If you select short range spells like close, personal range and 10'-60' range spells you'll get the bigger boost. I mean sniping from 1,650 feet with a fireball takes a lot of scouting/scrying and planning to get any improvement. Its range is already 600+ feet anyway.

[Sith_Happens]

The main thing is finding good spells to imbue. You can use this spell searcher, setting "aiming" to "area": http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20spellfilter/ If you select short range spells like close, personal range and 10'-60' range spells you'll get the bigger boost. I mean sniping from 1,650 feet with a fireball takes a lot of scouting/scrying and planning to get any improvement. Its range is already 600+ feet anyway.

1. Imbue Wings of Flurry.
2. ???
3. Profit

[candycorn]

Well its not in the Random Treasure table for Ranged Weapons, but the text mentions nothing about it. The FAQ is silent on the issue.

Ed: sp

The ability doesn't state that a projectile weapon confers the property upon its ammunition, so it would not. So, the only way to release a spell from that bow would be to strike an opponent with the bow itself.

Then there's the issue of wielding it. When it hits the target, the wielder may have the spellstoring weapon cast the spell. It's not likely you're considered wielding something you're no longer holding.

For ammunition, there's the issue of destruction. When the arrow hits, it deals damage and is destroyed. When the arrow hits, you choose to have it cast a spell.
In other words, the arrow is destroyed at the same time you tell it to cast. The spell is cast after that choice, therefore the spell is cast after the arrow destroyed. Now, how can an arrow cast a spell when the arrow no longer exists? It can't.

These things make spellstoring highly inadvisable for ranged weapons.

[Psyborg]

A few +1 spell storing arrows might be just the ticket for major boss fights, though...

[Combat Reflexes]

The biggest limitation of spell storing isn't the ranged/melee thing, its the fact that it only works with targeted spells.

Targeted spells are quite enough fun: Charm Person on your arrows! Levitate on a mace! Gust of Wind on a greatclub! *WOOSH*