Advice Needed: Relic of Wee Jas

[NowhereMan583]

I run a weekly game. At the end of the last session, the party destroyed a powerful & dangerous artifact by immersing it in a baptismal font in a lost temple of Wee Jas, the goddess of death & magic from the core pantheon. This particular baptismal font had the power to destroy said artifact because the water in it is actually a tear Wee Jas shed before leaving the world.

After they'd destroyed the amulet, the party was kind of standing around in post-sidequest-completion doldrums, and they decided to do what they normally do when they have no plan -- poke the metaphorical bear and see what happens. The bard stuck her hand into the water.

The session was ending anyway, so I didn't have to invent anything on the spot, but now, a couple days later, I still can't think of what effect this might have. However, I don't want to disappoint the players by presenting them with something anticlimactic like, "The bard's hand is now wet. Moving on." It's technically a relic, after all, so it would both make sense and be cooler for the players if there were some sort of lasting effect. I was hoping y'all might have a few ideas -- could anyone help me out?

Relevant information:

The party is currently right around the border of ninth level; some are a little below the requisite amount of XP, and some are a little above. So that's the power level with which I am working.
In this setting, Wee Jas tends to frown on undead (that's more Nerull's thing), so anything too necromantic is pretty much out.
None of the party worship Wee Jas; in fact, none of them even share an alignment with her.
The bard who stuck her hand into the font is chaotic, while Wee Jas is lawful.
I'd like to avoid any effect that makes it impossible for the bard to play her instrument (a fiddle).


Thank you in advance. I really appreciate it.

[Kuma Kode]

If they just destroyed an evil artifact with her tear, am I right in assuming she didn't like the artifact? If so, perhaps she rewards the group with something?

Perhaps the ability to turn/rebuke undead as a cleric, like a consumable magic item that is intangible?

[Pentachoron]

You could give her 1/Day Slay Living (which is a melee touch attack already, fluff it as having to come from that hand), which is the 5th level spell for the Death domain, you could have caster level equaling class levels, for the purpose of determining damage after the save.

[Admiral Squish]

I like the idea that this hand now possesses a great power against undead. Perhaps the hand now grants a disrupting weapon effect to any weapon it holds? Or perhaps a x times/day, the bard may make a melee touch attack to destroy an undead creature?

[Kuma Kode]

Just remember, that if it grants some kind of permanent ability, you can bet the players will be dunking all sorts of stuff into it.

[Kalim]

You could give her 1/Day Slay Living (which is a melee touch attack already, fluff it as having to come from that hand), which is the 5th level spell for the Death domain, you could have caster level equaling class levels, for the purpose of determining damage after the save.

Something like this. I also think the flesh should melt harmlessly from her hand, leaving it as skeletal bone!

Or perhaps it turns into living ruby, if bone is too macabre.

[DaragosKitsune]

Or perhaps it turns into living ruby, if bone is too macabre.

Make sure to specify that that it turns back to flesh if severed if you pick this one. PCs will cut off an arm for enough money.

[Kalim]

Make sure to specify that that it turns back to flesh if severed if you pick this one. PCs will cut off an arm for enough money.

Maybe not back to flesh, that'd be gross. It'd probably crumble into useless and worthless powder though if they tried to get smart.

Also, to keep everyone from dunking into the fount, maybe it loses its juice after the hand goes in, or needs a recharge period or something.

[NowhereMan583]

I do like the idea of giving her power over/against undead, but the problem is that, excluding this upcoming session, there's really no reason, story-wise, for the players to encounter many undead. So in order to keep her from feeling like her new ability is going unused, I'd have to keep tossing undead at the party for no real reason... and they're the paranoid sort who will read into that sort of thing, and then I'll have to come up with a reason, and there will be another sidequest.... so I'd like to avoid that whole thing.

(I mentioned the undead issue in the original post only because it excludes stuff like "animate dead", which would otherwise seem appropriate.)


Also, to keep everyone from dunking into the fount, maybe it loses its juice after the hand goes in, or needs a recharge period or something.

A recharging period is a good idea, I think. They're kind of in hostile territory, so they won't be hanging around to try again.



Or perhaps it turns into living ruby, if bone is too macabre.Make sure to specify that that it turns back to flesh if severed if you pick this one. PCs will cut off an arm for enough money.

Actually, with the dynamic between my players, this would be really interesting. See, the player of the bard is fairly new to D&D -- she's only been playing for a year or so -- and hasn't really acquired the "anything for a quick buck or a to-hit bonus" mentality that is sometimes found in more experienced players. She would not cut off the arm, no matter how much it was worth.

On the other hand, there are a couple more experienced players in the group who would take that approach... one of whom plays the barbarian, who has been grumbling as of late about his financial troubles.

Inter-PC trust is also pretty much nil. So this has the potential to be hilarious.


You could give her 1/Day Slay Living (which is a melee touch attack already, fluff it as having to come from that hand), which is the 5th level spell for the Death domain, you could have caster level equaling class levels, for the purpose of determining damage after the save.

I could see this working, though I'd still like to solicit some other ideas, for the sake of variety.

I might add one of the anti-undead suggestions as a secondary power, depending on how many questions along the lines of, "Are you sure that this creature is in no way undead?" I think I can handle.

You folks are great. Keep them coming? :smallsmile:

[Lord_Gareth]

The hand grants the bard insight into the workings of magic, in the form of an insane bonus to Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana).

[The Rabbler]

Maybe the hand could give the user complete knowledge of any spell being cast nearby?

[MammonAzrael]

Make sure to specify that that it turns back to flesh if severed if you pick this one. PCs will cut off an arm for enough money.

And a head (http://www.blindpanic.com/humor/vecna.htm) for enough power. :smallamused:

Personally I think you should go with the very anticlimactic "Your hand is now wet. Congratulations." option. For about a minute, and then have whatever effect start to occur. Possibly waiting until after they've left the temple.

Since the bard doesn't worship Wee Jas, and doesn't share an alignment, I wouldn't make the bonus too crazy. Something as simple as a +1 divine bonus to his caster level could work.

Given that he is Chaotic, you could have the font be absorbed or destroyed by the sacrilegious treatment of the holy relic. The tears could by absorbed by his hand, or the container could crack, leaking away the liquid. Because frankly, that was a very reckless and foolish move.

The bard could be temporarily connected to Wee Jas, as if he had cast Commune, but with better communication. And naturally Wee Jas will be offended by the treatment, but that should be tempered by the evil artifact destruction. Great way to toss them a new plot. Wee Jas can grant each member of the party a boon in thanks for completing their quest, and then demand they go on a new quest for the god, twisting their arms into compliance through "end of the world" danger and atoning for desecrating the font by sticking their arm in it.

[Callista]

Tell him nothing much seems to happen to him. The next night, he has a vague dream in which he sees a coldly beautiful woman gazing at him, and he becomes aware that she knows everything about him.

The next time he sees a spell being cast, or sees magic being used, he knows a lot more about it than he ought to (Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana bonuses--not skill ranks, just bonuses).

Wee Jas seems a bit too mysterious of a goddess to simply shell out a magic item like that; and with the bard being chaotic, I think she'd want to intimidate him a little.

[NowhereMan583]

I won't have the bard accidentally destroy the relic, for two reasons:

I don't really feel like relics should be so easily destroyed... especially this one, which the PCs know predates not only human civilization, but the much older elvish civilization. It's been preserved for about thirty thousand years now; if a bard could mess it up by sticking her hand in it, it probably would have happened already.
These players are absurdly paranoid. The barbarian has been complaining about his financial woes while moving through a very richly appointed abandoned temple -- embroidered silk robes in storage, black marble statuettes inset with rubies in every wall-shrine, &c. -- because they have convinced themselves that any sort of theft will qualify as desecrating the temple, and they'll offend some divine beings or other. If they destroy the relic, I'll basically HAVE to play out the "you have offended the goddess" plot, and some of them are already getting jumpy about getting back to the main plot.


I like the idea of scaring the bard a bit. I could have the physical transformation of her hand be accompanied by excruciating pain and a Vox Dei scolding. Plus the creepy dream.

I think giving out some innate magical knowledge might be good. As it is, they spend a lot of time doing research, because they're really interested in the magical items they do come across, but the only spellcasters are the bard and a rather dim (9 Int) druid, so that sort of information is pretty thin on the ground. (The only PC with Knowledge (arcana) or Knowledge (religion) is the monk.)

Y'all are awesome. If you think of any more ideas, don't hesitate to post them; I don't have to make a final decision on what happens until Thursday.

Thanks.

[dariathalon]

Seems to me that this sort of move should have some negative consequence. This sort of tom foolery with a goddess that isn't really known to be all that nice. I think I would dictate that the characters next level must be in Favored Soul of Wee Jas or something like that. To throw her a bone, you might let her caster level with both classes stack as long as her actions are in line with Wee Jas' dogma or something.

She could then return to bard after that one level, or if she seems really opposed to the level of Favored Soul you could give her the option of performing some sort of a quest or something for Wee Jas to retrain that level back to bard.

The big point here is to be sure the negatives balance (or over balance) any positives that you give out. Otherwise players will try to abuse this. If you do want something purely positive, make sure it is of very limited benefits, maybe a one time use of raise dead or something like that.

[NowhereMan583]

Seems to me that this sort of move should have some negative consequence. This sort of tom foolery with a goddess that isn't really known to be all that nice.

This is a good point. And the players know that she's not all that nice; the cursed & abandoned temple in which they are currently standing is cursed & abandoned because she cursed it. (The high priest broke a commandment.)


I think I would dictate that the characters next level must be in Favored Soul of Wee Jas or something like that. To throw her a bone, you might let her caster level with both classes stack as long as her actions are in line with Wee Jas' dogma or something.

I kind of like this, because it both makes sense and is hilarious out of character.

During the brief out-of-character debate about whether the bard should stick her hand in, the druid's player actually suggested that it might give her access to a prestige class or something. And, completely unrelated, the bard's player has been looking at prestige classes lately anyway. The look on her face when I inform her that she gets a second class, but she doesn't get to choose which, might be funny enough to make this route worthwhile on its own.


The big point here is to be sure the negatives balance (or over balance) any positives that you give out. Otherwise players will try to abuse this. If you do want something purely positive, make sure it is of very limited benefits, maybe a one time use of raise dead or something like that.

I think you are correct that the negatives should overbalance the positives -- messing with a goddess, especially a Lawful Neutral goddess of death, is a terrible idea, and should be treated as such.

Your suggestion here gives me an idea of a kind of "stealth negative".

In this setting, Wee Jas is opposed to raise dead for the same reason she doesn't like the undead: Her dogma states that death is the natural end of life, and when someone's "time" comes, they should be allowed to die without interference. So what if the "baptized" hand actively worked against attempts to raise the dead, doing stuff like forcing the bard to intervene if she witnesses any such blasphemous activity (some sort of Will save needed)? Or maybe if it comes in contact with anyone who has been raised, they die again? Both situations will probably come up rarely and not any time soon, so they'll be caught totally by surprise.

[Callista]

These players are absurdly paranoid. The barbarian has been complaining about his financial woes while moving through a very richly appointed abandoned temple -- embroidered silk robes in storage, black marble statuettes inset with rubies in every wall-shrine, &c. -- because they have convinced themselves that any sort of theft will qualify as desecrating the temple, and they'll offend some divine beings or other. If they destroy the relic, I'll basically HAVE to play out the "you have offended the goddess" plot, and some of them are already getting jumpy about getting back to the main plot.Yeah, they've been ridiculously respectful here--and they were right, since you've determined that Wee Jas is involved enough in this temple to affect what happens if a PC puts his hand in the water. She should know that they've been respectful and refused to steal from the temple--they should be rewarded for that, not just the bard in question. Out of game, it might just be paranoia, but in-game, it's quite sensible and good RP too considering how powerful the gods are and how likely they are to smite you if you step wrong--especially a severe, strict sort of goddess like Wee Jas.

[faceroll]

Let the hand count as a source of additional spell knowledge. The bard gets an additional spell known at each new level of spells from whatever domain of Wee Jas she wishes (magic, death, undeath, spell, law, inquisition, domination, mind, repose). Every time she casts a spell from that domain, her hand glows with an eerie ruby light.

[Jair Barik]

For the reason why they can't dunk further items in it perhaps make it so that the magic absorbed into the hand is the drained/altered magic of the artifact they destroyed. Alternatively go the route that the artifact though destroyed has irreparably corrupted the water, though the bard may reap the fleeting power as a benefit the water afterwards goes black and murky and does bad things to those who drink/touch it.

[faceroll]

Alternatively, come up with a nice custom bonus for each party member, and let them all be baptized by the waters in the font.

I would focus on granting them new knowledge in the form of feats that let them do new and cool things, or additional spells known. For instance, the bard gains the ability to affect undead with her bardic music. The wizard learns a cleric spell. The cleric gets a divine feat that lets him channel turn undead into something useful, etc.

[MammonAzrael]

So...they have been paranoid and respectful of this goddess of magic and death and her temple, which she personally blighted after a betrayal from the high priest of the temple. And then the bard just goes and dunks his hand?

Yeah, totally need to be negative consequences. :smallamused:

The Favored Soul idea is interesting, but I think a little too forced. Maybe his next level in in the PrC Sanctified One from Complete Champion, despite not meeting the prereqs. Wee Jas is actually one of the four gods that use it, and it is completely flavorful! If you don't have Complete Champion I can give you an overview.

The easiest way to prevent the party from abusing the tears is probably to involve Wee Jas more. She can grant each party member a small boon, because she can appreciate the service they performed in destroying the artifact. However, she can also make it quite clear that that is the only reason she is letting the bard off light, and will look upon further acts with extreme disapproval. This also seems to be a perfect way for you, as the DM, to toss your players new plothook, as the goddess can now request/demand assistance in another matter. You did say your players were a bit lost in their post-victory state, which is what led to this.

[Mikeavelli]

The Adventurers are fairly powerful individuals who have shown themselves fairly respectful of Wee Jas, and willing to work in accordance with her interests.

Taking a direct interest in the PC's should advance her own agenda in some way, possibly attempting to convince them to worship her instead of whatever diety they're currently worshiping. - or at the very least convince them to act in accordance with her values.

I like the idea of a bonus to knowledge[arcane] - but I would make it a very large bonus (+5 or so) that the PC can "Turn on" by focusing on a symbol of Wee Jas that tattoos itself on his hand or something. Any knowledge roll he succeeds on while it's turned on is colored in some way by Wee Jas to convince him to act in accordance with her wishes instead of just knowing the straight facts.

You can also make it activate on its own once in a while to provide plot hooks.

[Force]

The bard experiences extreme pain, similar to being dipped in lava, as the water from the pool rises up of its own volition and coats her head to toe. There's a blinding flash of light, and when the rest of the party members can see again, they discover that water has disappeared and that the bard has been turned into a strange creature made out of ruby and red-colored stone... a mineral bard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e).

Since this is a really powerful template, I would suggest removing the earth strike and the burrow speed and possibly tuning the DR down to 5/adamantine. Maybe a penalty to her perform skills or to her diplomacy skills, if she's the party face.

[faceroll]

The bard experiences extreme pain, similar to being dipped in lava, as the water from the pool rises up of its own volition and coats her head to toe. There's a blinding flash of light, and when the rest of the party members can see again, they discover that water has disappeared and that the bard has been turned into a strange creature made out of ruby and red-colored stone... a mineral bard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e).

Since this is a really powerful template, I would suggest removing the earth strike and the burrow speed and possibly tuning the DR down to 5/adamantine. Maybe a penalty to her perform skills or to her diplomacy skills, if she's the party face.

It also makes her evil and is a bard nerf, what with the penalties to int and cha.

[NowhereMan583]

So, this is what I've come up with:



The water in the font seems to grip your hand, making it impossible for you to remove it from the pool. It feels like acid on your flesh -- the pain is excruciating. The water becomes opaque, and the face of a woman appears in it. She speaks.

(Here I show around a photocopy of Wee Jas's picture in Deities and Demigods. It's not actually Wee Jas herself speaking, just an avatar -- she's a busy goddess, after all -- but they don't need to know that.)

"Unbeliever! Servant of Chaos! How dare you defile My relic with your touch? For this insult, I lay upon you a curse! Until you have paid penance by devoting your study to My hymnal, [description of curse].

However, I am not unreasonable. You have destroyed the Amulet of the Burning Eye, which was hateful to Me. Thus, I also grant you a boon. The secrets of any thing of magic will be revealed to you if you touch them with the hand I have anointed.

I hereby mark you to signify this covenant."

The woman vanishes, and the water becomes transparent again. Your hand is freed. Though you can still feel it, and it moves as normal, all the flesh has been scoured from it, and the exposed bone appears to have been transmuted to solid ruby.

In game terms, the bard will get to make a Spellcraft roll at a +10 bonus whenever she touches a magical item or creature with the ruby hand. She'll love this, because she spends absurd amounts of time researching the powers and backgrounds of every magical item they come across. Inventing stories for her to remember when she makes Bardic Knowledge rolls has been a powerful force in setting development.

The curse will be lifted when she takes a level in the Mourner prestige class. (I believe it can be found in Dragon #311.) This will be explained to her out of character.

As I'm sure y'all noticed, however, I have been unable to come up with a curse that inconveniences the bard enough that she will want to take a level in Mourner as soon as possible, yet does not make the character unplayable or unduly burden the party.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Criticism of the above is also welcome.

[Ytaker]

She sounds like she got a pretty good deal on that one.

You could make the hand cursed as well as blessed. Make it an intelligent weapon, the manifestation of some long dead cleric of Wee Jas with the dedicated power phantasmal killer or some other death spell, and have it impart justice to those who have avoided death, including their allies. Having her hand randomly kill friends gives her a strong reason to remove the arm, and gives you control over how far it goes.

[randomhero00]

They get years added onto their life spans. Cool but not balance breaking. Could also possibly make them no longer need sleep. Since its a tear, its probable intent was that she cried when she didn't want a certain being to die, or she didn't want to perform her Death abilities. Hence the anti death affect. The more chaotic and away from her alignment, could be the less time they get stuck on their lives. It should be significant. Like chaotic=1,000 years and no longer needs to sleep (still needs to rest)/no longer is affect by sleep spells. Lawful = 2,000 years and same as above and so on...

edit: in other words its a stationary relic with a certain amount of uses (10? 12? 16? 20?). I.e. the water level drops each time someone touches it. They could also sell (or not, maybe it only works if you're near the site) vials of immortality. That would be a suitable gold reward since many nobles would want to live longer.

[Khatoblepas]

Curse the bard to know the exact moment of natural death for any creature she touches. It can be vague, like the manner of their death, or the feelings at the exact moment they die, or shades of what leads to their death. If they already should have been dead (they were raised/ressurrected/animated) the bard knows this, and is rushed by images of what should have been. It fits with the boon (knowledge) but is appropriately negative (it gives useless, distressing flashes of it, and if you act on it, the knowledge is obsolete).

And because the bard is in contact with themselves, they know their own death, should they keep following the path of chaos. This part could be a complete fabrication by Wee Jas if you like, exaggerating and lying to the bard about how certain paths will lead to their doom ("No, we can't.. we can't go that way. That way lies death and madness.") or even using certain items leading to doom. It could be fabricated from the bard's mind itself, so paranoid about the curse that it makes up things. Wee Jas is trying to herd the bard into her arms, and doing so sneakily.

And as soon as they take a level in Mourner, they realise the ultimate truth - the end is simply the end, and it doesn't matter the events that took us there, only that we go into it gracefully. The bard then loses this "power". You've cursed the bard with a game changing, but ultimately unnerfing curse.

[Callista]

I like that. However, it may be seen as a sort of blessed-with-suck event, so I would suggest that the curse should involve seeing several possible deaths for everyone he touches--not just one--and, instead of just seeing the death, he would experience it very briefly, leaving him dazed for one round. That would mean that he only gets a brief flash of several possibilities, probably seen from a vague perspective and not too useful for divination purposes, rather than a vision from a more uninvolved viewpoint. It shouldn't actually be outright torturous, just unpleasant; if the death in question is painful, the bard gets the awareness of pain rather than the pain itself--Wee Jas is not evil, only strict and somewhat dark. (Remove the Daze part if the bard in question uses a lot of touch spells on enemies. If he just uses touch spells on friends, then have the visions happen only the first time he touches a creature; after that, nothing happens.)

[thorr-kan]

Give the bard the Requiem feat (Liber Mortis) as a bonus, as long as her withered, necrotic hand stays attached.

[DaragosKitsune]

Give the bard the Requiem feat (Liber Mortis) as a bonus, as long as her withered, necrotic hand stays attached.

Or, give them the Requiem feat after taking the level of Mourner, with the above curse (seeing death). The bard sees so many deaths that the clarity offered by penance allows the bard to understand the dead enough for her songs to affect them.

[Dalek-K]

Make the bard's hand now be the avatar or conduit of Wee Jas!

Give it a spell like ability that allows the player to ask the deity 3 questions a week... These can only be yes/no questions

Or make it as speak with dead 1/day

[Gullintanni]

In game terms, the bard will get to make a Spellcraft roll at a +10 bonus whenever she touches a magical item or creature with the ruby hand. She'll love this, because she spends absurd amounts of time researching the powers and backgrounds of every magical item they come across. Inventing stories for her to remember when she makes Bardic Knowledge rolls has been a powerful force in setting development.

The curse will be lifted when she takes a level in the Mourner prestige class. (I believe it can be found in Dragon #311.) This will be explained to her out of character.

This is awesome. It fits with Wee Jas' portfolio very well. You may also consider offering bonuses to the player based on their continued allegiance to Wee Jas. For example, if the player takes the Mourner PrC (I'm not familiar with it, but I'm assuming it can be tied to Wee Jas somehow) the curse is lifted, and the character in question gains Identify as the spell 1/day SLA whenever they touch a magic item.

You could also consider offering an enhancement of the Ruby Hand if the character switches to a Lawful alignment, reflecting the Stern Lady's vanity, and obvious desire to reward those who adopt her cause.

IMO adding a limited progression to the ability keeps it from being a one shot event and adds a lot of flavor to a character in the long term.

For Curses, you can check this thread for alternate uses of the Bestow Curse spell:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188494

I kind of like:
• Every time the victim makes a d20 roll, a roll of 20 counts
as a 1.
• Valuable metals (such as platinum, gold, silver, and
copper) turn to lead in the target’s possession, even if they
are in a bag of holding or stored away from the target. The
target’s touch transmutes valuable metals (including
coins) into lead as well. You'd have to determine a rate but this reflects permanent losses, so the character in question would hurry to absolve themselves of the curse.
• The victim ages such that they suffer -2 to all physical attributes until cured of the curse. The victim appears old and frail.

[NowhereMan583]

Curse the bard to know the exact moment of natural death for any creature she touches. It can be vague, like the manner of their death, or the feelings at the exact moment they die, or shades of what leads to their death. If they already should have been dead (they were raised/ressurrected/animated) the bard knows this, and is rushed by images of what should have been. It fits with the boon (knowledge) but is appropriately negative (it gives useless, distressing flashes of it, and if you act on it, the knowledge is obsolete).


I would suggest that the curse should involve seeing several possible deaths for everyone he touches--not just one--and, instead of just seeing the death, he would experience it very briefly, leaving him dazed for one round.

I really like this idea, but the problem is that it will take the bard a while to see it as a curse rather than a new ability. The party will just start having her check for possible deaths whenever they're stuck on a decision, and then try and use that information to make their choices. If I make sure the visions are never useful, they'll eventually come to see it as a curse, but in this case, the bard needs to be aware of how awful the curse is immediately, or the impact is lost.



• The victim ages such that they suffer -2 to all physical attributes until cured of the curse. The victim appears old and frail.

I could see doing this. Maybe I'll bump it up to -4, since it's temporary and all, but this does fit with the death-goddess flavor.

I might give her the death-visions as well, but in dreams - just to keep her on her toes. Good source of exposition, too; there are a couple people the party has angered without really being aware of it, and having dreams about dying at their hands would throw the party into some fun speculation.

[Gullintanni]

I could see doing this. Maybe I'll bump it up to -4, since it's temporary and all, but this does fit with the death-goddess flavor.

I might give her the death-visions as well, but in dreams - just to keep her on her toes. Good source of exposition, too; there are a couple people the party has angered without really being aware of it, and having dreams about dying at their hands would throw the party into some fun speculation.

If you want to play to Wee Jas' death aspect, then what you might consider doing is keep the physical penalties, and have the character take on the appearance of undead...hollow cheeks, pale, cold skin, etc...such that NPC's will mistake the character for undead upon first glance.

This would create some interesting roleplaying opportunities. Crossing the threshold of a good church might become more difficult, for example, when the Clerics immediately raise holy symbols and prepare to Turn the Bard...to no effect of course, which would further convince the Clerics that not only is your Bard undead, but a powerful one at that.

Merchants would also take pause before dealing with the Bard. This could be crippling if your bard functions in a social role at all. It'd limit access to the equipment and be a general nuisance for the whole party. Food for thought :smallsmile:

[Achernar]

And a head (http://www.blindpanic.com/humor/vecna.htm) for enough power. :smallamused:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYA7Yo5Xs2TBrqkH3kUA5_zPqyn2b5C 8RTCMJOBxchiLL1i9kLlw
"I'm the Head of Vecna!"


The bard could be temporarily connected to Wee Jas, as if he had cast Commune, but with better communication. And naturally Wee Jas will be offended by the treatment, but that should be tempered by the evil artifact destruction. Great way to toss them a new plot. Wee Jas can grant each member of the party a boon in thanks for completing their quest, and then demand they go on a new quest for the god, twisting their arms into compliance through "end of the world" danger and atoning for desecrating the font by sticking their arm in it.

I agree with this: If Greek mythology has taught me anything, gods should be vengeful, fickle, and yet somehow rewarding to work for. I like the idea of the bard's hand turning to bone... maybe giving him an ability like Owl's Wisdom or 1/day or Mage Hand at will for ironic effect, but also a permanent decrease to max HP?

[Callista]

I really like this idea, but the problem is that it will take the bard a while to see it as a curse rather than a new ability. The party will just start having her check for possible deaths whenever they're stuck on a decision, and then try and use that information to make their choices. If I make sure the visions are never useful, they'll eventually come to see it as a curse, but in this case, the bard needs to be aware of how awful the curse is immediately, or the impact is lost.
That makes sense; have it work only once for each new person instead--the second time you touch them, it won't cause visions.

If they're on the ball and notice this, it will still allow them to detect impostors.

[MammonAzrael]

The problem with such an unlimited way of telling the furture is headaches for you. Once I found out I could discover peoples deaths by touching them, I'd be touching everyone I could, starting a business, and verifying how accurate by visions are.

In a more adventuring sense, the first thing the bard should do is touch each of his teammates. This means they now know when they're going to die. And given that you have to make that up...then they can abuse that.

I like the aging penalty, or using any of the penalties from Bestow Curse. Though unlike the spell it can't be removed with Break Enchantment or anything similar. And since you're already giving the bard a boon, I don't believe the curse should have any positive applications of effects. That is part of how you give the bard incentive to take the PrC.

[zorba1994]

I'm going to echo the feelings of those that have said that the PCs can/will abuse the "see someone's death" ability, even though from a fluff point of view it is awesome.

Instead, stick with the "general feeling of their death" point of view. Just flood the bard with emotions pertaining what that person experiences at death. Make her take a -2 stacking penalty from the shock and horror of finding this, and maybe force a Will save every time she sees someone she's touched to keep her from relapsing.

In this scenario, in a party of four, she will have to make 3 Will saves a day to prevent up to -6 penalties to EVERYTHING per day. If the save is set so that she can get it about half the time, this makes it more or less (yay averages) a constant -3 penalty plus a lot of RP shock.

[Jothki]

If you want to be particularly straightforward, just kill the hand. It's still attached, but it's useless and eventually starts rotting if it isn't removed. Anything that regenerates a limb will bring it back with no lasting penalty.

If the PCs want a reward, they should ask for one, not go mucking around with relics that they already know can destroy things.