When the gods fall

[Dvandemon]

What happens when OoTS gods fall? I imagine the "normal" gods, already there would still continue, the ones raised by mortals would cease to exist. Like the Dark One, would he just become a regular goblin soul? At the mercy of the other gods?

EDIT: This is mostly to ask your opinion, but discuss if necessary

[Dr.Epic]

Is there any evidence the Gods can even fall?

[Zevox]

"Fall?" What do you mean "fall?" Unless there are some gods in the OotS world with Paladin levels you're talking about, I'm not seeing what this question is about. :smallconfused:

Zevox

[Gift Jeraff]

I'm guessing he means if they have 0 worshipers.

[Dvandemon]

If, for whatever reason, all gods lost their worship yes.

[Dr.Epic]

I'm guessing he means if they have 0 worshipers.

You have 0 worshipers? Why does that seem like a Facebook thing except for deities?

[Themrys]

You mean something similar to that what happened to the Discworld-god Om, who lost all but one of this worshippers?

Well, a regular god would just lose power, while one who was a normal person before would probably become a normal person again and age rather quickly.

However, this could hardly be achieved without killing all worshippers. In a world where clerics can heal with the power of their gods, people don't turn atheist suddenly.

@Dr. Epic: No, not Facebook, Macebook. :smalltongue:

[faustin]

It happened in Dragonlance saga: after Cataclysm people gave up their faith in the old gods in favor of new religions as the Seekers, so all clerics lost their power and disappeared.

[SoC175]

Since the deities were there before they had any worshippers I don't think that worshippers matter to them at all

[Morquard]

SOD spoiler:

The Dark One's backup Plan (as far as we know, or better as far as Redcloak was told) is that even if the Snarl gets free and the gods have to remake the prison, destroying OotS world in the process, the Dark One will then be one of them and have a say in the next worlds creation.

That indicates gods can't "fall" or completely loose their powers, no matter what happens, even those raised by mortals. Once a god always a god.
They might need worshippers to gain more divine levels/power but once they have them, they can't loose them again.

Of course the DO could be wrong and he would cease to exist, but I somehow imagine he did some research on that so I doubt it.

[Gnoman]

It happened in Dragonlance saga: after Cataclysm people gave up their faith in the old gods in favor of new religions as the Seekers, so all clerics lost their power and disappeared.

All clerics with power were Raptured away before the mountain hit. The clerics who remained had mo power to begin with, becuase they never had any real faith.

[Leecros]

yea, if gods could fall due to lack of worshippers it would have happened after the snarl destroyed the first world...

[Dvandemon]

You even read my post?

[Leecros]

You even read my post?

yes,and it's quite rude to assume that i hadn't.

a god is a god, and there's no reason to suspect that the ones raised by mortals would cease to exist after they lose their worship. If it was possible for a god to fall due to lack of worship it would have happened already. Since the raised gods clearly have the same prowess as one that wasn't raised there is no reason to suspect that they would react any differently than any other god.:smallannoyed:

[Dvandemon]

Why would it have happened already? If you are referring to the Dark One and the Elve gods, those are the ones raised in the current continuity. All the ones that not only existed but made the previous reality would most likely still exist after this one is lost, but the ones that rely on the belief and worship of the current inhabitants (that's another question, do raised gods both in D&D and OoTS need to maintain their Divine ranks with followers) would most likely cease after their followers (and maybe even their followers souls) are lost.

EDIT: Where do you get the idea they obviously have the same prowess, do you mean equal in power?

[King of Nowhere]

We know for fact
- the gods get power fromn their followers
- the gods can exist for centuries without followers (at least mortals), and even have enough power to craft a world

So I would suppose the gods get more power from mortals, but can survive on their own. At least once they get over somne threshold, that's why banjo con't do much.

An alternative hypotesis is that even if they have no mortal followers, the angels in their planes wopuld still worship them, and that would give them enough power to survive and act.

[Innis Cabal]

You have 0 worshipers? Why does that seem like a Facebook thing except for deities?

Because unlike gods, we don't get powers based on worship.

[KingFlameHawk]

We know for fact
- the gods get power fromn their followers
- the gods can exist for centuries without followers (at least mortals), and even have enough power to craft a world

So I would suppose the gods get more power from mortals, but can survive on their own. At least once they get over somne threshold, that's why banjo con't do much.

An alternative hypotesis is that even if they have no mortal followers, the angels in their planes would still worship them, and that would give them enough power to survive and act.

And don't forget they would also have all their dead mortal followers that would also still worship them. So really unless the snarl got all of the gods worshippers; mortals, immortals, and dead mortals the gods arn't in any real danger of falling this way.

[Leecros]

Why would it have happened already? If you are referring to the Dark One and the Elve gods, those are the ones raised in the current continuity. All the ones that not only existed but made the previous reality would most likely still exist after this one is lost, but the ones that rely on the belief and worship of the current inhabitants (that's another question, do raised gods both in D&D and OoTS need to maintain their Divine ranks with followers) would most likely cease after their followers (and maybe even their followers souls) are lost.



Because you seem to be under the pretense that the raised gods are somehow magically different than the ones who weren't. They're not, not really. If gods could not live without worshipers then the gods that lived through the attack of the snarl would be gone.

[QUOTE=Dvandemon;10499026]EDIT: Where do you get the idea they obviously have the same prowess, do you mean equal in power?

Raised gods grant spells, raised gods(presumably) have Divine Ranks, Raised gods have control over their given race/group/whatever's souls. Just like any of the other gods. Currently there is no known difference between a raised god and one that's been around the block a few times. So why would they cease to exist if they lost their followers? There has been shown no drawbacks to not having worshipers as has been proven by all of the other gods not disappearing when the snarl destroyed the first world.

[Zevox]

We know for fact
- the gods get power fromn their followers
We do not know that, actually. We know mortals can be raised to godhood through worship, but we don't know if the gods get any power from their followers once they have attained godhood. Nothing about that has ever been said in the comic.

Zevox

[Alanzeign]

Why would it have happened already? If you are referring to the Dark One and the Elve gods, those are the ones raised in the current continuity. All the ones that not only existed but made the previous reality would most likely still exist after this one is lost, but the ones that rely on the belief and worship of the current inhabitants (that's another question, do raised gods both in D&D and OoTS need to maintain their Divine ranks with followers) would most likely cease after their followers (and maybe even their followers souls) are lost.

EDIT: Where do you get the idea they obviously have the same prowess, do you mean equal in power?

I'm not really sure which one I think would work or not (gods that were raised by mortals falling or not), as there isn't any concrete evidence for either theory.

The question I have is, if you've already come to a conclusion, why did you start this thread? Leecros posts one theory and you are kind of rude to him because it conflicts with your own, neither of which have evidence backing them. It just seems ridiculous.

[NerfTW]

, but the ones that rely on the belief and worship of the current inhabitants ... would most likely cease after their followers (and maybe even their followers souls) are lost.

Because for your theory to be true, we'd have to assume the Dark One is SO stupid as to not have checked that before making his backup plan:

Destroying reality and getting equal say in the creation of World 3.0

Nothing in OOTS has suggested that gods can fall due to lack of worship, and given the Dark one's plan, most evidence points to them NOT falling from that circumstance.

However, SOD also reveals that:
There is some way to kill/destroy gods, as there is a debate on whether to let the Dark One remain a god.

[Zevox]

However, SOD also reveals that:
There is some way to kill/destroy gods, as there is a debate on whether to let the Dark One remain a god.
I would imagine that simply has to do with the fact that gods are powerful enough to kill each other. In D&D it's quite standard that gods can be killed if you're powerful enough, it's just that not many things are. Having every other existing god gang up on you, however, would certainly do it.
Zevox

[Dvandemon]

@Leecros: Technically the gods should still live through The Snarl attack as, I mentioned before, they existed before both realities were created(at least, that's what we know). I'm not the only one under pretense here.

I'm not really sure which one I think would work or not (gods that were raised by mortals falling or not), as there isn't any concrete evidence for either theory.

The question I have is, if you've already come to a conclusion, why did you start this thread? Leecros posts one theory and you are kind of rude to him because it conflicts with your own, neither of which have evidence backing them. It just seems ridiculous.

To be honest I felt he was a little rude to me. Conclusions do not matter (I have not reached one yet, to clarify) as they can change and I'm just discussing.
Because for your theory to be true, we'd have to assume the Dark One is SO desperate as to not have checked that before making his backup plan:

Destroying reality and getting equal say in the creation of World 3.0

Nothing in OOTS has suggested that gods can fall due to lack of worship, and given the Dark one's plan, most evidence points to them NOT falling from that circumstance.

However, SOD also reveals that:
There is some way to kill/destroy gods, as there is a debate on whether to let the Dark One remain a god.

Since nothing in the OoTS suggests falling, then we can only guess (that's half of threads here anyways). When you think about it, a lot of extortion schemes don't really make sense. It only matters if the Dark One is willing to destroy anything and everything for his ends.

[xelliea]

I would guess the ones we know about are quite well known about and so it is very unlikely they will fall, the less know ones, who might fall, I don't think we will hear about in the comic.

[Sarco_Phage]

I somehow doubt the comic is going to reach deicide levels, since the only character powerful enough to even scratch a god right now is Xykon. Soul-spliced-V might also have stood a ghost of a chance.

On the other hand, since these gods don't have clearly defined powers and levels, I have no clue.

[grimbold]

Is there any evidence the Gods can even fall?

in some games and mythos gods can fall because they are defeated by other gods, thus they lose their godly awesomeness

[Sarco_Phage]

SoD
It is mentioned that when the Dark One first ascended, the good gods were all for smiting the upstart until the evil gods sided with him. I'd say it's a fair bet that godfall in OotS can take place, in the context of being destroyed by the others, presumably being turned into raw essence.

[LuPuWei]

Hel apparently doesn't have too many worshippers but is still a God. Maybe it doesn't matter and myth and legend is enough to keep you Deified (if a tad impotent)