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View Full Version : Rant: Uneven roleplaying rewards



WarKitty
2011-03-05, 02:59 PM
I'm slowly getting more and more annoyed with the roleplaying rewards in our game. Here's a summary of how the last two sessions went. Characters are:

NG druid/Lion of Talsid, my character
CN alchemist, player was absent for first session
CG sorc/fighter gish
LE ranger
CN fighter, also absent first session

Backstory:

We had time-traveled back in the wake of the BBEG. In the original timeline, the resistance movement had attacked the king's caravan while he was on a diplomatic mission. The senator accompanying the king had attempted to assassinate the king in the confusion. One of the rebels, seeing this, jumped in front of the dagger and saved the king's life. Seeing this, the king had a change of heart and set about a sweeping reform program that eventually led to the creation of a new republic.

Our BBEG, we discovered, had gone back in time and killed the rebel that was to save the king. We decided to disguise ourselves and insinuate our own party into the party of the attacking rebels, with one of our own members taking the place of the murdered man.

We needed to make contact with the resistance. We had at this point obtained the name of a starting contact. We decided we should limit the people going to the sorceress and the druid, passing her off as a handler of trained messenger birds. I was pretending to be her pet falcon. We figured we'd be doing a lot of bluffing, and didn't want to keep the lower charisma characters around where they couldn't keep up.

We worked out a series of signals between my bird-form and the sorceress, so I could tell her the results of perception and sense motive checks. We successfully insinuated ourselves into the rebel group (at this point the alchemist was along as well). We planned out the attack, found reasons to bring the rest of the party along, and set up the ambush. I scouted for the caravan coming, and buffed the sorceress (who was taking the murdered man's place) so that she would survive.

During the downtime I had, I had discovered that the city was undergoing a severe famine. I spent the time helping out, using goodberry and plant growth as I could.

In the meantime, the ranger was off picking up side quests. As I recall, these involved helping solve a murder mystery, finding out if a woman's husband was cheating on her, and fighting battles in an arena. He only joined us for the final actual ambush, during which he hid in a tree and picked off the horses.

Now, I understand that he wasn't along for the main portion, and I know that there was a reason for that. I also appreciate that he was doing stuff during the time we were working. My frustration is the rewards. After the side quests, he had some 20k gold, a +2 mithral shirt, and a significant amount of extra xp. I got 100gp and about a third of that much xp. Note that his character has already been deemed by the entire party to be the one in the least need of more magic items.

I'm starting to feel like it's less a game of actually roleplaying and more a game of guess where the DM hid the sidequests. I've been roleplaying as much as he has, but my roleplaying seems to get an "ok, you can do that" and moving on to someone else and nothing ever happens.

Shpadoinkle
2011-03-05, 04:47 PM
Have you tried mentioning this to your DM?

Vknight
2011-03-05, 04:58 PM
That very well what need to be done.

It also may be the Dm values side quests and helping those were the challenge is greater more important then things were its ok you do that. Also helping the sickly people your probably wouldn't get as much goods or Xp because he is doing equal role-playing but also getting into battles.

Not agreeing with your Dm mind you just pointing out how he may be thinking.

As for the sidequest thing you could also point out to your Dm he seems to give better rewards for that then should be and also more focus upon the actual story line. Side Quests should be fun and quirky such that the players enjoy themselves for either there look into the world or there general sillyness.

Cespenar
2011-03-05, 05:05 PM
A sidequest's prize should be the sidequest itself - developing the character, having him/her roleplay in different and fun situations, etc. The DM shouldn't have the player look at sidequests and immediately think "Loot and xp! Yay!"

Vknight
2011-03-05, 05:07 PM
That as well but often people will reward you for going out of your way to do something for them even if its something little.
A merchant offers reduced prices old lady gives your her husbands old sword or shield, its not magical but once the grim is wiped off they realize its masterwork or maybe a rare metal common were they grew up.

Vangor
2011-03-05, 05:09 PM
Depends on if the game rewards "roleplaying" or "questing" as those are not the same though may be linked. The DM may feel quests are the means by which to roleplay, in which case I imagine his problem is improvisation in the story. Considering how the current chapter of the campaign appears to be solved by one obvious manner (why not stop the attack, kill the advisor first, sabotage the caravan), the DM may also see a need for quests to give direction to the other players, or again need things which are heavily structured to provide for an interactive world.

Speak with the DM and other players. You will never solve or be satisfied with the situation at hand by complaining to the playground.

Haarkla
2011-03-05, 05:35 PM
Now, I understand that he wasn't along for the main portion, and I know that there was a reason for that. I also appreciate that he was doing stuff during the time we were working. My frustration is the rewards. After the side quests, he had some 20k gold, a +2 mithral shirt, and a significant amount of extra xp. I got 100gp and about a third of that much xp. Note that his character has already been deemed by the entire party to be the one in the least need of more magic items.

I'm starting to feel like it's less a game of actually roleplaying and more a game of guess where the DM hid the sidequests.
IMO the actual problem here seems to be that you are splitting the party. You are going on different quests, so of course your rewards will be different.

I dont think you have any entitlement to a particular level of magic item reward. Unfortunately, as in the real world, arena fighting is a lot more lucrative than providing famine relief.

Vknight
2011-03-05, 05:38 PM
IMO the actual problem here seems to be that you are splitting the party. You are going on different quests, so of course your rewards will be different.

I dont think you have any entitlement to a particular level of magic item reward. Unfortunately, as in the real world, arena fighting is a lot more lucrative than providing famine relief.

Exactly as you have said its the differnce between te dangers and relevent rewards.

WarKitty
2011-03-05, 06:14 PM
Have you tried mentioning this to your DM?


That very well what need to be done.

It also may be the Dm values side quests and helping those were the challenge is greater more important then things were its ok you do that. Also helping the sickly people your probably wouldn't get as much goods or Xp because he is doing equal role-playing but also getting into battles.

Not agreeing with your Dm mind you just pointing out how he may be thinking.

As for the sidequest thing you could also point out to your Dm he seems to give better rewards for that then should be and also more focus upon the actual story line. Side Quests should be fun and quirky such that the players enjoy themselves for either there look into the world or there general sillyness.


Depends on if the game rewards "roleplaying" or "questing" as those are not the same though may be linked. The DM may feel quests are the means by which to roleplay, in which case I imagine his problem is improvisation in the story. Considering how the current chapter of the campaign appears to be solved by one obvious manner (why not stop the attack, kill the advisor first, sabotage the caravan), the DM may also see a need for quests to give direction to the other players, or again need things which are heavily structured to provide for an interactive world.

Speak with the DM and other players. You will never solve or be satisfied with the situation at hand by complaining to the playground.


IMO the actual problem here seems to be that you are splitting the party. You are going on different quests, so of course your rewards will be different.

I dont think you have any entitlement to a particular level of magic item reward. Unfortunately, as in the real world, arena fighting is a lot more lucrative than providing famine relief.

I think the frustration is more that we now have one player that's significantly more powerful than everyone else just because he has so many magic items from completing all the sidequests. Seriously, 20k and a couple of magic items versus a total of 100gp? That and the sidequests provided aren't really things that I could do - e.g. the arena challenges were one-on-one only, no pre-buffing allowed. Or the quests are offered in a manner that a good character wouldn't feel comfortable taking them on.

Some of it is also a general frustration that I don't feel like I'm getting a share of the DM's time. I mentioned this briefly to him but got told "well you didn't find the right NPC's." Like I said, I feel like it's less about actual roleplaying and more about guess the magic words that will give you a quest. Plus I just don't seem to get much of the DM's time in general - like I said, if someone else wants to do something they get their own mini quest, whereas if I want to do something I get no attention past the bare minimum yes or no answers.

shadow_archmagi
2011-03-05, 06:17 PM
Try gaining weight and styling your hair into a mohawk, to become harder to ignore.

Vknight
2011-03-05, 06:20 PM
He may be ignoring you for a variety of reasons.

Ranging from he is angry at you to that he wants you to do things that are more on the grey side of the alignment scale.

Just to name some reasons why.
Also who says you can't buff yourself before going into the areana. Then turn into a bear and have a different player ask for a position for his pet bear.

WarKitty
2011-03-05, 06:41 PM
He may be ignoring you for a variety of reasons.

Ranging from he is angry at you to that he wants you to do things that are more on the grey side of the alignment scale.

Just to name some reasons why.
Also who says you can't buff yourself before going into the areana. Then turn into a bear and have a different player ask for a position for his pet bear.

It was the arena rules, apparently they have mages that check for all those different tricks. And wild shape does nothing for my primary problem, which is my almost non-existent hit points. Plus, the DM has said he'd prefer to have heroic characters. Even if he was angry at me, why would he be taking it out on me like this?

Case in point: The ranger goes out to the farmlands, offers to help a farmer for however much the guy can pay him. He works for 8 hours and comes back with a set of magic seeds, along with a long roleplayed conversation. I go out to the farmlands, spend 3 days giving out goodberries and casting plant growth, and get 10 seconds of DM time and no rewards whatsoever.

Vknight
2011-03-05, 06:56 PM
Ah well then I cannot help you as said earlier you should talk to your Dm but besides that not much can be done

Firechanter
2011-03-05, 07:00 PM
@War Kitty: that sucks. You have my sympathy.

What's kind of funny is that I often rant about players who treat their GM like a computer game. What I mean by that might be a topic of its own and doesn't belong here. But what sucks exactly as much is when the GM mistakes himself for a computer game, in the sense of "You have to find exactly these triggers and do exactly these things that I prepped". This kind of pixelbitching never was fun in computer games and it isn't fun at the table.

Secondly, a GM should appreciate all players who want to get involved. (We all know the type who just sleaze on the couch and only wake up when it's Roll Initiative, not counting these here.) And as a disclaimer, this means character actions that are in theme with the game. From what I read out of your account, he should have appreciated your efforts more. Of course some piss-poor famished havenots can't give you ten thousand gold, but maybe they could have dug out some trinket you could use, and the GM could certainly have rewarded your efforts with more XP.

Next, if the GM is including sidequests that only particular characters can meaningfully take on -- like that arena fight -- then in my opinion he's obliged to offer equally worthwhile sidequests to everyone. "Feed the peasants" would have been a perfect sidequest in its own right.

(BTW, we once had a similar situation in a D&D game, a village was cut off from the outside world and unknown forces had destroyed their harvest. We were just about level 9-10, and my Travel Cleric rallied the party and we teleported to the nearest city, loaded up all the food we could carry and ported back the next day. I think I did get some extra XP for the idea, but I'm not sure how much.)

And I perfectly understand your gripes about different powerlevel by means of gear. We also had that in our aforementioned group, where the DM assigned randomly rolled drops to everyone - i.e. not like "you all find a sword, a ring and a little statue", but "rogue, you find a ring of blinking. Ranger, you find a studded leather +3. Fighter, you find a lemon."

That said, what you should do as first step is talk to your GM, but _outside the game_ and not in the presence of any other players. Just tell him what you have missed seeing in the past and would like to see in the future. Don't demand an immediate statement but give him some time to think about it.
If you see after a couple of sessions that this doesn't have any effect, try again and this time use a different tone, tell him very bluntly and clearly about your issues. And if he turns that down again, and it really bugs you... I advise to leave the game.

That's just my advice. It may be not the best. But that's how I handle these things. Sometimes it's made the game better for me, sometimes it caused me to leave the game, but it always saved be from further frustration.

Shyftir
2011-03-05, 07:01 PM
another thing you are a druid he is a ranger, if your both leveling at a believable rate, well even the increased wealth won't help him much by level 8 or so. At least if you are building even marginally well.

Vknight
2011-03-05, 07:06 PM
"rogue, you find a ring of blinking. Ranger, you find a studded leather +3. Fighter, you find a lemon."


"Hey GUYS I found a LEMON!"

But yeah as Firechanter and I have said talking to him is your best bet.

Firechanter
2011-03-05, 07:07 PM
Of course it wasn't an actual lemon, but you guessed that. ^^ It was some useless trinket, don't remember what exactly.

P.S.: your GM may have an alignment bias. I just noticed the alignments you've mentioned in your first post. You're Good and get a wet handshake, ranger is Evil and gets more goodies than you can shake a stick at. That doesn't prove anything by itself, but it reminds me of a game where the GM was absolutely, totally favouring the Evil chars and relentlessly shafted the Good ones.

Vknight
2011-03-05, 07:13 PM
Or the Ranger is passing secret notes to the Gm threatening people for extra rewards etc.

Also yeah I know it wasn't a lemon but the line had to be done.

nedz
2011-03-05, 07:18 PM
Maybe the DM is rewarding initiative ?
Maybe he's a simulationist who is handing out 'realistic' rewards ?
Maybe he's rewarding characters who follow the rail-road ?
Maybe he has favourites ?
Maybe its just random and you were unlucky ?
Maybe its some other reason ?

Its hard to tell really.

Only two sessions: maybe its to early to know anyway ?

Chances are the DM doesn't know.

Since the Ranger is Evil, you can always kill him and take his stuff :smallsmile:

Firechanter
2011-03-05, 07:27 PM
Come to think of it, what levels are you now?

Volos
2011-03-05, 07:43 PM
You could invent a side quest. Be friendly with the ranger, convince him to spend all of his money or a really good chunk of it, in one place. When the economy is knocked out of wack for one, giving 20k to a ranger and then two, receiving 20k all in one lump sum elsewhere; force nature to take over the now weakened and confused city. It isn't evil, you're promoting life and all the goodness of nature at the expence of the thoughtless humans who cut down thousands of trees and kill animals for a single purpose rather than using the entirety of the animal. As lord and master of this new realm, you can enforce the law of nature, survival of the fittest / least tastey. Send your animal friends after the ranger and enjoy the chaos that ensues.

Or talk to your DM about it... you know, whichever. Or both.

Kris Strife
2011-03-05, 07:44 PM
You know, solving a murder, and finding out if a spouse is being unfaithful don't sound like things an Evil character would do, or typical ranger activities.

Volos
2011-03-05, 07:48 PM
You know, solving a murder, and finding out if a spouse is being unfaithful don't sound like things an Evil character would do, or typical ranger activities.

The ranger is listed as Lawful Evil though, so perhaps if he was being paid enough and it followed the letter of the law? Such crimes could have stiff penalties (like death) and an evil character would enjoy watching such punishment in person. What better way to watch an exectution then to be the one who caught the villian? Not to mention it would help disguise or distract your own evil actions.

Vknight
2011-03-05, 08:06 PM
Or he may just say yeah the husband was and have cut out his voice box and hands so the man cannot say anything in his defense. Both evil and he still gets rewarded saying he was defending one's self so the lady may ask for him to kill the man. Another evil act on a innocent.

Gray Mage
2011-03-05, 09:38 PM
Maybe he's going to give you and the rest of the party for XP and loot for being in the main portion that he missed, so he made the side-quests to compensate?

Vknight
2011-03-05, 10:54 PM
No the Ranger is going to be there he said that the Ranger is sniping horses so they can stop the attack on the king by stopping the carriage from moving.

Gray Mage
2011-03-05, 11:24 PM
No the Ranger is going to be there he said that the Ranger is sniping horses so they can stop the attack on the king by stopping the carriage from moving.

Yes, but he said that for the main part he wasn't. He may have felt that giving the Ranger the same exp and loot as the rest would have been unfair, but so would be giving him only a fraction, so he'd give him the difference with the side-quests. Now, I'm not saying this is what's happening, but it might be.

Vknight
2011-03-05, 11:28 PM
True but if they say the king the girl lives they will probably all come together to met him.

But I can see and agree with your point and stance on this.

WarKitty
2011-03-06, 12:41 PM
Ummm...in case it wasn't clear the attack on the king already happened. There really wasn't much loot, and we had to bluff that the girl died.

Honestly, I think that the main issue is it's turning into a game of guess the magic words. Doing the proper sidequests is what's being rewarded, rather than actual roleplaying. But I'm really not sure how one character managed to find all the sidequests, and I don't feel like I'm getting sufficient DM time when I do go out looking in order to find them.

Vknight
2011-03-06, 01:38 PM
Ok that makes sense did you discuss with your Dm like we suggested. You should do this before the next session.

Also the sorcerers died well thats sad.

WarKitty
2011-03-06, 01:42 PM
Ok that makes sense did you discuss with your Dm like we suggested. You should do this before the next session.

Also the sorcerers died well thats sad.

She didn't die, we just managed to fake it.

But yeah, I'll talk to him. After my session however.

Vknight
2011-03-06, 01:47 PM
Yeah because that way you can hopefully fix it.

I read bluff the girl died as. Buffed but the girl died. Amazing what the mind sometimes does.