How much damage would a Scythe with another blade under it do? (Pic inside)

[Sims]

http://www.animemetro.com/gundamwing/grafx/characters/mechs/deathscythe2.jpg
Now I don't want it to be a beam scythe. Just pretend that it was a normal scythe.

Would it do a predictable 4d4 x4 Crit?

[Vknight]

http://www.animemetro.com/gundamwing/grafx/characters/mechs/deathscythe2.jpg

Now I don't want it to be a beam scythe. Just pretend that it was a normal scythe.

Would it do a predictable 4d4 x4 Crit?

Probably just normal Scythe damage.

If it must be different
It may do 3d4 damage or apply the full strength modifier twice.
It's Crit range would also probably be 19-20 because the twin blades give increased likelyhood of striking vulnerable areas on its target

[Shapurnippal]

How much damage would an axe with another axe under it do?

Probably the difference would be negligible or it would do less than a normal scythe. For one, if you had two scythe-blades it would impart its energy on a wider surface area, and therefore do less damage (Crit x3 instead of x4, maybe?).

Most of the real impracticalities of a double scythe (it would be a bitch for getting caught in things like clothing and armour, for example) would be represented by its being an Exotic Weapon, I think.

[Sucrose]

Figured it'd be Deathscythe. Maybe an extra +1 or +2 damage, tops. You're going to be aiming with the outer blade, so the inner blade will do next to nothing, as it'll be passing through a cut that's already been made, unless you aim for a vampire bite sort of attack, which would be playing against your weapon's strengths. It most certainly is not remotely as effective as two separate scythe strokes.

In any case, it'd certainly require an EWP, just to avoid snagging one of the blades on armor that you're avoiding with the other blade.

Really, such a weapon is pretty pointless. If they were offset horizontally rather than vertically, they could at least make two separate cuts, which might make it a bear to repair, and could potentially justify an extra d4 or two of damage.

[Cartigan]

2d4/x4

But it gives you a +2 to intimidate while wielding it.

[Shademan]

why would you do that!?

http://images-mediawiki-sites.thefullwiki.org/05/2/3/4/12509571696755021.png

[Vknight]

Except that there is now more damage being done upon a greater area. So the str mod applied twice and the increased crit range.
But it also makes sense that a crit would deal less damage once totaled so I can agree with the x3 rather then x4crit.

An axe with a second axe under it would make the weapon unbalanced so lower crit chance negative to attack greater impact so chance of pushing and knocking target prone but nothing else really.

[Eurus]

The "more pointy bits = more damage" route is not a good one to take. That way lies only the madness of the Daggerbroom and the Orcish Quadruple Flail. :smalltongue:

[faceroll]

What if you put an ax under your ax under your ax?

[Vknight]

But of course and thats why there are limiting factors to it.

[Sucrose]

Except that there is now more damage being done upon a greater area. So the str mod applied twice and the increased crit range.
But it also makes sense that a crit would deal less damage once totaled so I can agree with the x3 rather then x4crit.

An axe with a second axe under it would make the weapon unbalanced so lower crit chance negative to attack greater impact so chance of pushing and knocking target prone but nothing else really.

Not really. You still are only able to apply the same amount of force to the weapon. Same sort of haft, same motion of attack. Ergo, since that force is split between the blades, if you're somehow able to get them to deal damage to distinct areas (as with the horizontal scythe I proposed, but not, in my view, the vertically split blades shown, for reasons I've already mentioned), the amount of damage to the area either scythe blade attempts to cut will be less. Thus, minimal, if any, additional damage.

[Critical]

Umm...


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EgPcrnOHcjA/TGM10CZaAeI/AAAAAAAAA90/p4s0H0At_cY/s1600/xzibit-happy.jpg

[The-Mage-King]

...

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab251/The-Mage-King/motivatorcbffac5dfd54a173a5738209f7813c19c182e3e0. jpg


EDIT:@^ ... Mines more relevant.

[Vknight]

So your arguing against an idea similar to your own.

Instead of 3/2 strength mod, 2/1 for your strenght mod. Also this is a fantasy world so don't bring your science near it.

And I agree minimal damage but an increase that would also be sutiably noticeable without being to great such as an addtional d4.

[Critical]

...

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab251/The-Mage-King/motivatorcbffac5dfd54a173a5738209f7813c19c182e3e0. jpg

Well, Hidan actually has a reason to have so many blades on his scythe.

And kinda swordsage'd you there, by the way.

[Vknight]

You both swordsaged me.

Yeah Hidans reasoning makes sense greater chance to strike an opponent and maximizing damage.

[lord_khaine]

Actualy, i would say the scythe would do 1d6/x3 at most, you can reach a point where adding another blade to your weapon would only reduce its effectivenes.

edit.


Yeah Hidans reasoning makes sense greater chance to strike an opponent and maximizing damage.

No, the only thing Hidan was maximizing was the chance to draw blood, as a weapon the scythe was worse than a normal one.

[Vknight]

Maximizing his chance to inflict damage even agianst armored targets.

[Dusk Eclipse]

You both swordsaged me.

Yeah Hidans reasoning makes sense greater chance to strike an opponent and maximizing damage.

Actually Hidan's scythe is designed to get the maximum possibility of drawing blood. Due the voodoo ritual Hidan doesn't care how much damage he deals with the scythe, just a nick is enough for him.

[Spiryt]

Actualy, i would say the scythe would do 1d6/x3 at most, you can reach a point where adding another blade to your weapon would only reduce its effectivenes.


And you reach this point as soon as you add the second one. :smalltongue:

To give "realistic" answer :

- it would be terrible idea, you would receive 'weapon' that's pretty much impossible to hack something well with, chances that you don't nail target really good with either of blade is very high.

Leaving aside the fact that you've just added more weight at the end of the wood without real point.

From the 'fun' point of view - do whatever suits you.

Think about your DM sanity though. :smallwink:


Actually Hidan's scythe is designed to get the maximum possibility of drawing blood. Due the voodoo ritual Hidan doesn't care how much damage he deals with the scythe, just a nick is enough for him.

I can't be only on to notice, that there's not much chance of 'drawing' blood with the top blades anyway, since they're obscured by the lowest one. :smalltongue:

[Lapak]

Not really. You still are only able to apply the same amount of force to the weapon. Same sort of haft, same motion of attack. Ergo, since that force is split between the blades, if you're somehow able to get them to deal damage to distinct areas (as with the horizontal scythe I proposed, but not, in my view, the vertically split blades shown, for reasons I've already mentioned), the amount of damage to the area either scythe blade attempts to cut will be less. Thus, minimal, if any, additional damage.There are very good reasons why you don't find real-life weapons designed this way. This is one of them, and probably the most important.

The double-blade would all but completely negate the ability of the outer blade to actually CUT, for another. The additional weight at the top end of the weapon would require a counterbalance on the gripping end to retain anything like a balanced weapon, making the whole production much too heavy. The doubled blade would be vulnerable to all kinds of leverage that would allow blade-breaking techniques impossible against a single blade (not such a D&D concern, but still.)

[Dusk Eclipse]

I can't be only on to notice, that there's not much chance of 'drawing' blood with the top blades anyway, since they're obscured by the lowest one. :smalltongue:

Ummm I think he can move the orientation of the blades so they are not one top of each other, not sure if I am making any sense; but...let's try to describe it as the haft being at the centre of a clock and the blades arranged son one is facing 12 o'clock, one at 1 o'clock and the third blade at 11 o'clock.

[Spiryt]

Ummm I think he can move the orientation of the blades so they are not one top of each other, not sure if I am making any sense; but...let's try to describe it as the haft being at the centre of a clock and the blades arranged son one is facing 12 o'clock, one at 1 o'clock and the third blade at 11 o'clock.

I get it, and in such case, it becomes too removed from reality to really argue about it. :smallwink:

Still, morningstar of something would be much better at guaranting at least some blood.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I get it, and in such case, it becomes too removed from reality to really argue about it. :smallwink:


Dude...it is the weapon from an anime character... reality was thrown away from the equation A LONG TIME AGO.
:smalltongue:

[Sims]

Yeah well, **** everything you guys said.

I'm letting it do 3d4 19-20 x4 Crit.

[Spiryt]

Dude...it is the weapon from an anime character... reality was thrown away from the equation A LONG TIME AGO.
:smalltongue:

I guess authors were not listening to Freddie closely...

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/163522/Freddie+Mercury.jpg

No escape from reality




:smallwink:

[Vknight]

Yeah well, **** everything you guys said.

I'm letting it do 3d4 19-20 x4 Crit.

Exactlly its how you wish it to be done!

[Sucrose]

Yeah well, **** everything you guys said.

I'm letting it do 3d4 19-20 x4 Crit.

Dude, you asked what it would do, not what it should do for game balance/awesomeness purposes. For an exotic weapon, that'd probably be okay. It just makes no real-life sense.

[Eldan]

Well, technically, a scythe would be a slashing weapon, and your prototype there just completely blocks the cutting surface of the top scythe form even reaching the enemy.

That was the boring answer. The interesting answer, I think, would be to further increase the critical modifier. I'd make it 2d4/x5.

Normally, only one blade hits, and does normal damage. Rarely, they both hit, and it's ever so devastating.

[SiuiS]

You are dividing the force between two blades. 1d4+STR per blade.
they have weapons like this. You don't do more damage, you do less damage but get an additional attack (see crescent blade).

So a double bladed scythe deals 1d4+STR, x4 on a crit. You make 2 attack rolls for each attack action, and deal damage on each successful attack roll.

[Vknight]

Dude, you asked what it would do, not what it should do for game balance/awesomeness purposes. For an exotic weapon, that'd probably be okay. It just makes no real-life sense.

Not in a realistic sense but in a game world sense were people throw fireballs and fight dragons I believe.

[Sucrose]

Not in a realistic sense but in a game world sense were people throw fireballs and fight dragons I believe.

That's the sort of reasoning leading to hundred-armed humans and people who continue to fight while dead without an explicit ability letting them do so. Things are assumed to follow real-world physical laws except when they are explicitly stated not to in the rules.

[Eldan]

You are dividing the force between two blades. 1d4+STR per blade.
they have weapons like this. You don't do more damage, you do less damage but get an additional attack (see crescent blade).

So a double bladed scythe deals 1d4+STR, x4 on a crit. You make 2 attack rolls for each attack action, and deal damage on each successful attack roll.

That's seriously overpowered, actually, two attack rolls in one action. You just doubled all your damage boni, including precision dice like from Sneak Attack.

[Vknight]

That's the sort of reasoning leading to hundred-armed humans and people who continue to fight while dead without an explicit ability letting them do so. Things are assumed to follow real-world physical laws except when they are explicitly stated not to in the rules.

You do realize what you descirbed sounds awesome right?
Also so what this is just a game have fun!

[icefractal]

You know, by this route, the Morningstar should be the ultimate weapon. Look at how many spikes it has! At least a dozen! Even if you say that every spike is only shuriken-sized, that's 12d2 or more damage! :smalltongue:

[Miscast_Mage]

Add in a single source of extra damage(eg sneak attack) and hilarity ensues.

[Vknight]

Except that is small sized shuriken so 1damage.

[Claudius Maximus]

Gentlemen I present THE DEADLIEST WEAPON:
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3167/hairbrush.jpg

That has to be AT LEAST 50d1 damage.

[Miscast_Mage]

And it's a light weapon, perfect for TWF!

[AtomicKitKat]

I'd make it like Yeenoghu's Flail. Flip a coin. Heads=1 hit. Tails=2 hits. Counts as 1 attack, if both heads hit, you get 3d4 of damage. Else 2d4. Same crits.

In all seriousness, don't think of it as blocking the top blade from cutting. Think of it as adding a curved dagger to the top of your existing blade. The bottom blade is now doing the cutting where your old single blade used to.

[RTGoodman]

Let me just post these from a long, long ago thread on the WotC forums, in a similar thread. (I think the OP there asked if four daggers attached to a stick would do 4d4 damage, and it just went from there...)


http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1893/axeofretardkk1.png

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6123/chainofretardox0.png

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4052/crossbowofretardlj3.png

[Vknight]

Gentlemen I present THE DEADLIEST WEAPON:
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3167/hairbrush.jpg

That has to be AT LEAST 50d1 damage.

No Silly only so many of those could hit at once. Also it's easily tiny sized so it would have to be made bigger. Next your forgetting how easily something that frail would break.


Let me just post these from a long, long ago thread on the WotC forums, in a similar thread. (I think the OP there asked if four daggers attached to a stick would do 4d4 damage, and it just went from there...)


Thank you for those images. Also most of those weapons look designed to be thrown at a target.
Now I have an evil idea.

[icefractal]

Also most of those weapons look designed to be thrown at a target.Yeah, the Quad-Axe seems like it would be good for Telekinesis. And the Octo-Chain could work if you stuck weights on the end of each chain and threw them all as separate objects (which just happened to be attached).

[Vknight]

And it would be so awesome that I want to make a villian doing just that.

[BallsInABowl]

How about a quad-gnome-hooked-hammer,
One end each with:
two hammers,
two hooks,
one hammer above one hook,
one hook above one hammer.

Or just four ends each with a hook & hammer.

That'd be a 2-handed weapon, for
4d6 + 6STR (crit x3) + 4d4 + 6STR (crit x4)
and on a crit would it be:
12d6 + 18STR + 16d4 + 24STR?

[balistafreak]

Let me just post these from a long, long ago thread on the WotC forums, in a similar thread. (I think the OP there asked if four daggers attached to a stick would do 4d4 damage, and it just went from there...)

I lol'd.

Please say there are more. Or perhaps a link to the thread. :smallbiggrin:

[RTGoodman]

I lol'd.

Please say there are more. Or perhaps a link to the thread. :smallbiggrin:

It was originally lost, but it appears to be back now.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19565390/3d4_damage_Ill_buy_that_for_a_feat

EDIT: And let me direct your attention to these...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/thegreatestnightmare/DireTarrasque.jpg

http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w139/robbypants/direcrossbow.jpg

http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w139/robbypants/orcdireaxe.jpg

[Claudius Maximus]

No Silly only so many of those could hit at once. Also it's easily tiny sized so it would have to be made bigger. Next your forgetting how easily something that frail would break.

Woah woah woah. I didn't say anything about the size.

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/5282/ogrebrush.png

[Vknight]

The first one is too silly (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitlehwgm85et78jj?from=Main.MontyPython)

The second one is reasonable and the third one seems to be a pair of "Axe Chucks Yo"

-Edit-

Swordsaged

[RndmNumGen]

What if you put an ax under your ax under your ax?

http://i54.tinypic.com/3323wuq.jpg

[SiuiS]

That's seriously overpowered, actually, two attack rolls in one action. You just doubled all your damage boni, including precision dice like from Sneak Attack.

It's also entirely legal. There are two weapons from dragon magazine like this; one is a light weapon that deals two attacks of 1d2+1/2STR each, the other is a two handed that deals 3 attacks of 1d3+STR each, if memory serves. I used one for half of second level before melting it down and using a staff. That many attacks got old fast.

Now imagine if I'd kept it and gone the 2wf pouncing quilting frenzy power attack/leap attack route?

But yeah. Totally has WoTC approved precedent.

[Fable Wright]

That's the sort of reasoning leading to hundred-armed humans[...]
Hekatonchiers are actually rare beings with the power to kill gods. Apparently, the game designers let that in too.

[...] people who continue to fight while dead without an explicit ability letting them do so.That's kinda the necromancer's job, isn't it? And the undead from Undead Leadership had to come from somewhere...

[MeeposFire]

That's seriously overpowered, actually, two attack rolls in one action. You just doubled all your damage boni, including precision dice like from Sneak Attack.

Honestly it should be treated as a variant on the volley style attack like multishot.

[ericgrau]

You should attach 17 blades but get the scythe with exotic weapon proficiency but then be a rogue so you can get sneak attack 17 times!!!1!!one!!!

But seriously the scythe won't do any extra damage nor give any extra attacks nor etc. If anything it may be worse from being awkward, but let's say it's really well made so... 2d4/x4. Now go back to role-playing your double scythe and don't worry about the mechanics.

[Yora]

Adding more blades to a weapon would actually reduce the amount of damage it deals.
More blades mean that the same impact force is spread over a larger surface. The natural resistance of armor or the body against impacts is applies twice while the amount of force behind the attack is the same. Which means more force is absorbed harmlessly and damage is reduced.

[awa]

the scourge and crescent blade are also an example of why dms are so prone to just saying no to things in dragon magazine they are even less well play tested then the regular books

[Sucrose]

Hekatonchiers are actually rare beings with the power to kill gods. Apparently, the game designers let that in too.
That's kinda the necromancer's job, isn't it? And the undead from Undead Leadership had to come from somewhere...

If you're joking, I'm sorry for not catching that, but: Hakatonchiers are not humans, but their own race, and necromancy is an explicit ability permitting one to cause the dead to continue to fight. So, you haven't actually said anything invalidating my point.

[unosarta]

If you're joking, I'm sorry for not catching that, but: Hakatonchiers are not humans, but their own race, and necromancy is an explicit ability permitting one to cause the dead to continue to fight. So, you haven't actually said anything invalidating my point.

His point about Necromancy was more of the Undead Leadership feat in which, he has a point; there are such things as natural undead. What is a natural undead? Something that continues to keep on fighting after it is dead.

But anyway, this is a kind of pointless argument at this point. Just thought I would chime in with that.

[Vknight]

Yeah and its off topic from the sycthe blade idea. Which got nowhere fast

[unosarta]

Yeah and its off topic from the sycthe blade idea. Which got nowhere fast

I was talking about the discussion in the thread, not the discussion going on above.

[Vknight]

Just pointing out it's off topic and this thread is more about the inherriant silliness of adding additional blades onto a weapon.

[unosarta]

Just pointing out it's off topic and this thread is more about the inherriant silliness of adding additional blades onto a weapon.

However the thread has, at this point, basically devolved into "physics says you can't" and "rule of cool says you can". There isn't really anything constructive that would help the OP understand what happens, besides maybe a post that happened two pages ago. And even then, it happened two pages ago.

[Vknight]

True and now were arguing that well others are arguing about Undead and things which is in a fantasy world so that makes no sense to argue it.

[AtomicKitKat]

I'll just leave this (http://www.toyzhunt.com/files/users/56/Lu_Bu.jpg) here.:smallwink:

And lest we forget how much precedent there is. The Marilith Scissor Sword from Savage Species as well as the aforementioned Yeenoghu Triple Flail.

[JamesonCourage]

These threads make me appreciate my group all the more.