Wizard Malconvokers [3.5]

[Bobikus]

To split this up from just other Wizard help thread, has anyone here specifically played the Malconvoker with a Wizard base? Decided to try one and a few things I'm kind of wondering about, mainly if Focused Specialist is worth the loss of a spell slot and a 3rd forbidden school.

[Soren Hero]

ive never played a malconvoker before, so i can't give any specific advice but i have read the malconvoker handbook available at http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872758/Mastering_the_Malconvoker?pg=1

this would be a great place to start, if you haven't read it before

[Firechanter]

As that handbook implies, the key to being a successful Malconvoker is knowing your summonable creatures inside out. So that's a lot of prep work.

[Gnorman]

Focused Specialist is absolutely worth the loss of a third school. Evocation and Necromancy are automatic banned schools, while the third is a toss-up between Illusion (really hard to give up for defensive purposes) and Enchantment (normally an automatic ban, but quite helpful for Planar Binding so harder to give up as a Malconvoker). I'd ban Enchantment, despite its utility as a summoner. Most of the holes in your repertoire can be plugged by summons anyway, so it's not as if you'll feel the loss too keenly.

I loved every round I played as a Malconvoker - the class positively oozes delicious flavor and is also quite strong, despite the loss of a caster level. Wizard makes a strong base, too - though the Cleric or Archivist chassis is inherently stronger, the ability to take the Rapid Summoning ACF more than makes up for it - summoning as a standard action is extremely helpful. Throw some basic battlefield control in there (from the Conjuration school, naturally - Web, Grease, Glitterdust, Black Tentacles, and the whole gamut of teleportation/rearrangement spells), and you'll be a totally badass chessmaster, manipulating the field to your absolute advantage. You won't personally rack up the kills, but your indirect influence will win nearly every fight you start.

[Runestar]

Focused specialist is definitely worth it. Knowing all the spells in the game doesn't really mean much when you have so few slots to cast them out of. I would gladly give up 3 schools for more slots. :smallsmile:


As that handbook implies, the key to being a successful Malconvoker is knowing your summonable creatures inside out. So that's a lot of prep work.

Not just that, you will also want to be very intimate with the rules for combat maneuvers such as trip, grapple and bull-rush, if you wish to take full advantage of the summons' special abilities.

But well worth it.

[Grendus]

Malconvoker is AWESOME with wizard base! Wizard can get Rapid Spell metamagic on all summoning spells via an ACF, plus Augment Summoning (which trades a different class feature). And if you really want a familiar, you can grab one with your third level feat anyways.

The downside is it really grows teeth later in the build, and requires a moderately late entry (sixth level), plus the lost caster level. The upside? Free demon/devil/fiend when you summon! Bonus hit points and damage! Free Extend Spell on summons. In terms of sheer power, the Malconvoker is one of the better PrC's out there without drifting too far into cheeseville.

The biggest thing you need to remember is it's either a 5 or 9 level class, depending on whether you want the bonuses to the Planar Ally line. As an added bonus, even if you take it as a 5 level PrC it gives you the Planar Ally spells, which qualifies you for the Thaumaturgist PrC. Otherwise you'd have to take a cleric dip or the Arcane Disciple feat.

[Gnorman]

The biggest thing you need to remember is it's either a 5 or 9 level class

The 9th level of Malconvoker isn't crucial - you can easily drop it to make room for something else in a build.

[Last Laugh]

The downside is it really grows teeth later in the build, and requires a moderately late entry (sixth level), plus the lost caster level. The upside? Free demon/devil/fiend when you summon! Bonus hit points and damage! Free Extend Spell on summons. In terms of sheer power, the Malconvoker is one of the better PrC's out there without drifting too far into cheeseville.


Level 6 entry isn't so bad, Mindbender is a wonderful dip for a malconvoker, nonverbal communication and all that.

[Zaydos]

You can also take Master Specialist Conjurer for a few levels before and after Malconvoker (only problem is you either need early entry or to only take 7 levels of Malconvoker to get Master Specialist's big ability 3/day auto quicken on conjuration).

[CockroachTeaParty]

If you're going focused specialist, I'd ban evocation of course, but you have to think carefully about the other schools.

If you're going to use the planar binding line, enchantment is wonderful, as is necromancy. Either way, I'd probably ban illusion; yes, you lose some good defenses, but your summons should be between you and any threats, and some of the later ones have SLA's that can cover illusion or other defenses.

So evocation and illusion are gone... now what to lose? If you're not going to use planar binding too much, I'd probably drop necromancy, and perhaps enchantment instead of illusion. Necromancy is a great way to weaken called creatures before 'negotiations' begin. I know it sounds insane, but I might consider dropping transmutation.

Before I get a bunch of bricks thrown at me, consider the following:

Transmutation has a lot of good buff spells, but many of the staples won't effect your summons. Enlarge Person won't work, and neither will Bull's Strength or Bear's Endurance (they're enhancement bonuses, which won't stack with Augment Summoning). You'll lose some fun utility powers like Rope Trick and Disintegrate, but your later summons' SLA's should be able to cover for you in a pinch. You'll lose polymorph and Alter Self as well, but you're already having to memorize tons of summons abilities, so why trouble yourself with more homework in the form of other forms to take? Plus, they're pretty cheesy spells in general.

In my experience, transmutation has a lot of good spells, but Conjuration is a diverse enough school that you should be able to make up for it. So you lose Haste; that sucks. But would you rather spend a round Hasting your mob of summoned fiendish dire tigers, or would you rather summon reinforcements?

So basically, if summoning is all you're after, ban evocation, enchantment, and necromancy. If you want to have fun with planar binding, ban evocation, illusion, and transmutation. If the thought fills you with horror, you can ban necromancy in place of transmutation, but as a malconvoker you're not trying to be the best utility wizard; you're a summoner, a commander of powerful outsiders, and a scoundrel. Leave utility to your summons, or another spellcaster in your party.

[molten_dragon]

It's a great class, and even with the loss of a spellcasting level, it can easily keep up at the table with other T1s. One thing to note though is that you need to be careful when playing one not to hog too much of the limelight.

It's quite easy for a Malconvoker to have a truly ridiculous number of summons on the table at one time, and therefore eat up WAY more than their fair share of time during combat.

[Bobikus]

I think I'm going to go Evocation, Necromancy, and Enchantment/Illusion, probably Illusion since most of the good illusion spells can be handled by our Bard (using the Tome Bard on the Dnd-wiki.org). Just need to decide on my starting feats now, since Human with 2 Flaws from UA gives me 4 to start with.

[Fox Box Socks]

Aren't the various Summon Undead spells Necromancy? I vaguely remember playing with a Malconvoker that supplemented his demonic summons with intelligent undead (which are really, really, really good). Seemed to work out for him.

[Bobikus]

I'm not a big undead fan, and we might have a cleric that wants to dabble in animating/creating undead anyway.

[Bobikus]

Looking at the feats, since I have 4 to work with thanks to the DM allowing up to 2 flaws, I think I might Start with Improved Initiative to get my summons out early and Spell Focus(Conj) to prepare for Master Specialist at 4.

What Metamagic feats and combos work will with summoning?

[Fox Box Socks]

Augment Summoning and Extend Spell are obvious winners.

Isn't there a feat from Frostburn that gives your summons the Cold subtype and some other goodies?

[Andion Isurand]

I would recommend looking at the Demonomicon of Iggwilv arcticle in Dragon Magazine 336.

The Ensnarement spell is of particular use for wizards when using planar binding spells ...as it lets you make any opposed Charisma checks against a creature bound in a magic circle (enhanced by the Ensnarement spell) using your Intelligence modifier instead if you so choose, among other things.

[Bobikus]

lright thanks, right now looking at starting with out with:
Focused Specialization (Conjuration), Necro, Evoc, Illusion banned (Illusion over enchantment due to having someone playing bard)
Rapid Summoning
Enhanced Summoning

4 Level 1 Feats (Class, Human, 2 Flaws)
Improved Initiative
Spell Focus(Conjuration)
Extend Spell
Metamagic School Focus(Conjuration)

Will probably take Master Specialist at 4-5, then take Malconvoker to at least 5. After that, some combination of more Master Specialist, maybe a couple 7fold veil levels, and probably a 1 level Paragnostic Apostle dip to give my summons fast healing.

[Waker]

Aren't the various Summon Undead spells Necromancy? I vaguely remember playing with a Malconvoker that supplemented his demonic summons with intelligent undead (which are really, really, really good). Seemed to work out for him.
Nope, they are Conjuration spells with the Evil type on it. With Malconvoker you could use them with no ill effect.

[Bobikus]

Then I should be fine dropping necromancy. Anyone see any glaring issues they see with the above starting stuff I posted or any good suggestions (that don't require material from setting-specific books or Dragon magazines)?

[Bobikus]

One thing I realize I'd be losing by banning Illusion is that I wouldn't be able to use shadow evocation to emulate contingency, although I haven't played a character with access to that spell enough to know how if losing it would be worth still having enchantment as a Malconvoker who plans on doing a lot of planar binding at high level.

[Firechanter]

Dude. You are taking Abrupt Jaunt. That _is_ permanent Contingency.

[Bobikus]

I can't take both Abrupt Jaunt and Rapid Summoning, and the latter is pretty much required for a Malconvoker.

EDIT:

Mask of the Ideal in Complete Mage is shifting my choice toward Illusion a bit.


Mask of the ideal shifts everything toward an ideal form. Any creature that perceives you in any fashion beholds something that it finds aesthetically pleasing. You gain a +4 competence bonus on Bluff and Diplomacy checks, as well as on Disguise checks made to disguise yourself (but not others).
You also gain a +4 competence bonus on any Charisma check you make to influence a creature that you have enchanted (such as with charm person) or conjured (such as with planar binding).

[FMArthur]

Wait, I'm confused. Someone else is playing a Bard, and you were banning Illusion out of fear of redundancy instead of Enchantment? Beguilers are the ones who major in Illusion and minor in Enchantment. Bards are the other way around.

[Gnorman]

Yesssss, keep illusion. That spell is quite nice. As I recall, Serene Visage is an Illusion spell - it gives you a scaling bonus to Bluff.

Also, Mirror Image, Invisibility, Silent Image, etc...

[Akal Saris]

Dragon Magic also has a transmutation spell that gives you Suggestion, if I recall.

[Gnorman]

Voice of the Dragon in Spell Compendium, I think you mean. Great spell.

[Bobikus]

Looks like Evoc, Necro, Ench it is for my 3 banned. Just trying to figure out what all PrCs I'll be dipping into now aside from Malk so I can plan out feats/etc for PrC reqs.

[Seatbelt]

It's quite easy for a Malconvoker to have a truly ridiculous number of summons on the table at one time, and therefore eat up WAY more than their fair share of time during combat.

As long as you use the summons to support the party it should be no problem. My rogue always had a flanking ally and my fighter always had something to distract the enemy while he got in to position for whatever stupid thing he was planning.

[Waker]

Looks like Evoc, Necro, Ench it is for my 3 banned. Just trying to figure out what all PrCs I'll be dipping into now aside from Malk so I can plan out feats/etc for PrC reqs.
Master Specialist (CMag) or Thamauturgist (DMG) would probably be the best classes to accompany Malconvoker.

[Master_Rahl22]

Definitely grab Benign Transposition from SpC at least, and possibly the higher level one that lets you target enemies as well. Party member getting grappled by the huge thing with an unbeatable grapple check? Suddenly he's grappling a Fiendish Crocodile instead. It's an amazing spell when you have expendable allies to voluntarily put themselves in harms way to save a party member.

[FMArthur]

One level in the Paragnostic Apostle prestige class (CC) can give your summoned critters Fast Healing 2 plus one per 3 caster levels, maximum 5 and is very painless to enter (think it's only skill reqs).

[Bobikus]

Master Specialist (CMag) or Thamauturgist (DMG) would probably be the best classes to accompany Malconvoker.

Thamauturgist requires Lesser Planar Ally though doesn't it?

[Waker]

Thamauturgist requires Lesser Planar Ally though doesn't it?
Indeed it does, but at the fifth level of Malconvoker you get Lesser Planar Ally added to your spell list.

[Bobikus]

Indeed it does, but at the fifth level of Malconvoker you get Lesser Planar Ally added to your spell list.

Looking at the book and it's just the binding spells, not the ally ones that it gives.

[dextercorvia]

Arcane Disciple can fix that.