3.5 arcane theisis

[kayden87]

is there any feat like arcane thesis that lowers all MM? or is AT the only one

[Vistella]

metamagic school focus from complete mage

its only 3/day though and only for specific school

[Aemoh87]

Oh man this thread is going down a road of no return. Just a heads up I recommend not using this tactic to go in the negative with Metamagics. But it is a good idea to take irresistible spell from Kingdom's of Kalamar so you can cast without those pesky saves.

[kayden87]

and thats it hmm?.

since AT can reduce a spell MM to 0 and incantrix10 reducesit a nother one, that mean I can perm empower a spell linked to AT?

[Aemoh87]

It technically means you can empower it at one level lower. Whether or not your DM will see it that way is questionable. In the end this is a relatively bad idea for PC's as it makes you significantly better than a normal opt wizard. So your above tier 1. But don't worry there are still classes better than the Incantrix.

[Vistella]

add easy metamagic and you can maximise that spell for free
add practical metamagic (think thats what its called, races of dragon) and you can persist for just +1, +0 with the metamagic school focus

so yes

[kayden87]

but incantrix10+sorx+learnedMM =fun tho

[kayden87]

Oh man this thread is going down a road of no return. Just a heads up I recommend not using this tactic to go in the negative with Metamagics. But it is a good idea to take irresistible spell from Kingdom's of Kalamar so you can cast without those pesky saves.

How do you get into the negitives with MM? With out Easy MM and Practical MM

[Aemoh87]

invisible spell is the easiest, since it's SL +0.

[FMArthur]

Don't think you can. You definitely can't using Arcane Thesis. All you can do is use Arcane Thesis to make +0 metamagics into -1 metamagics, but it can never go below the level of the original spell. You can take Sanctum Spell to make the spell count as lower for all purposes except what slot it goes in, and then make evil loops with Arcane Fusion casting itself and one other spell forever until everything targettable is dead.

[kayden87]

arcane theisis and incantrix both say they cant reduce past +1 or +0.

Whats the way to get around it to get into Neg levels?


Don't think you can. You definitely can't using Arcane Thesis. You can take Sanctum Spell to make the spell count as lower for all purposes except what slot it goes in, and then make evil loops with Arcane Fusion casting itself and one other spell forever until everything targettable is dead.

Thats dirty lol

[gbprime]

invisible spell is the easiest, since it's SL +0.

And Sanctum spell. also +0.

[kayden87]

So aslong as you ARE NOT in your sanctum this MM will work

Juss getting invisable, sanct, and all those spells, wont really have the room in my build for them :(

[gbprime]

arcane theisis and incantrix both say they cant reduce past +1 or +0.

Whats the way to get around it to get into Neg levels?

I suggest you read Arcane Thesis again. It says no such thing. That's the exploit.

Invisible Sanctum spell with Arcane Thesis is a -2 adjustment. Add Maximize at +2 instead of the normal 3 and you're good to go.

Or invisible sanctum repeat mage's lucubration... that's the ultimate exploit.

[FMArthur]

Are we talking about the same thing here? Arcane Thesis's errata states unambiguously that you cannot reduce a spell's final adjustment to below zero. Yes, it is possible to make individual adjustments into -1s to mitigate other adjustments, but you can't use those to modify a spell to be used out of a lower level slot than the original.

[kayden87]

so I was somewhat correct

[Tyndmyr]

Fmarth has the right of it. Errata says you can't go below original lvl.

Also, if you can get turning, there's dmm.

[kayden87]

Fmarth has the right of it. Errata says you can't go below original lvl.

Also, if you can get turning, there's dmm.

from lvl 17-20 I nees 3.lvls of w/e

would sacred exorcist quallify for dmm?

[dextercorvia]

Yes, but DMM only works on divine spells.

[Tyndmyr]

Probably. Personally, I like 2 lvls of ur priest, then mystic theurge.

For bonus cheese points, convince your dm to allow pf mt. Nothing like casting 4 9th lvl spells in a single turn.

[kayden87]

Yes, but DMM only works on divine spells.

u sir, ripped my heart in half lol

[dextercorvia]

You don't need it if you are going Incantrix anyway.

Other ways to get free persist:

Ultimate Magus
Anima Mage
Naenhoon +Turning
Spelldancer

[kayden87]

ya persist is nice, only got room for 3 lvls tho.
any of those get it from lvl 1-3?