Several questions on sneak attack

[Hazzardevil]

In a PVP Tournament I'm going to try and join.
I was thinking of a daring outlaw,
My only problems are getting sneak attack on an opponent since it will be one on one.

1.
I have a few questions:
Supposing I took a level of Assasin and a level of Avenger Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a).
That would give me 2 dice of sneak attack. I then take 5 levels of swashbuckler so I can qualify for Daring outlaw.
Presuming I took 5 levels of swashbuckler that is the minimum, that would be 3d6 dice of sneak attack if those levels where rogue.
Now I don't have any rogue levels to stack my swashbuckler levels with for sneak attack. Would those Swashbuckler levels give sneak attack by themselves?

2.
What is the best way of getting my sneak attack on an opponent.
The best way I can think of is either a level of bard and a level of druid and either way trade a animal companion for distracting attack which would give me sneak attack on every attack.

3.
What would the best race be?
I'm considering playing a elf and use elven thinblades ora water Orc with dragon splits.

Any other advice?

[bloodtide]

1.Swashbuckler does not give you the ability to Sneak Attack. Why do you need 5 levels of Swashbuckler to take Daring Outlaw? You can take that feat any time after you take two levels of Swashbuckler.

Of course to even at assassin you will need a couple levels of another class..like a couple levels in rouge.

2.Flanking works. You can also use Bluff.

3.Elf with a thin blade is nice

[gorfnab]

Supposing I took a level of Assasin and a level of Avenger Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a).
That would give me 2 dice of sneak attack. I then take 5 levels of swashbuckler so I can qualify for Daring outlaw.
Presuming I took 5 levels of swashbuckler that is the minimum, that would be 3d6 dice of sneak attack if those levels where rogue.
Now I don't have any rogue levels to stack my swashbuckler levels with for sneak attack. Would those Swashbuckler levels give sneak attack by themselves?
This all depends on your DM's interpretation of the feat since the errata and the sage are silent on the issue. If your DM allows this interpretation of Daring Outlaw to work I would see if you can get away with Swashbuckler 3/ Sneak Attack Fighter 3/ Feat Rogue 14 (not necessarily in that order though, rogue first for sneak attack). This would net you 11d6 sneak attack, 8 bonus feats, and 16 BAB.



What is the best way of getting my sneak attack on an opponent.
The best way I can think of is either a level of bard and a level of druid and either way trade a animal companion for distracting attack which would give me sneak attack on every attack.
Ring of Blinking + Mage Slayer feat + Pierce Magical Concealment feat



What would the best race be?
I'm considering playing a elf and use elven thinblades ora water Orc with dragon splits.
Feats are a scarce resource. Taking EWP for Thinblades or Dragon Splits means delaying other potentially useful feats. Besides if you're planning to focus on sneak attacking the difference between a d6, d8, or d10 weapon is negligible when you're actual purpose is to add fistfuls of d6 sneak attack damage. Short Swords, Kukris, or even Daggers are great for sneak attack builds.



Any other advice?
Take Craven and the TWF chain. More attacks per round = more potential sneak attacks per round.

[ffone]

Second gorf's. Ring of blinking is one of the most reliable ways to sneak attack. It also has great defensive benefits, and utility like going through walls. Even if it costs most of your WBL it may be worth it.

You can avoid the 20% miss chance with those feats he suggested, or a Force bow. Force is a great enhancement anyway (also bypasses all DR) and blinking makes ranged sneak attacking more feasible. Combine with the Sniper's Shot spell for bypassing the range requirement (assassin spell, or in a chambered wand, or a custom wondrous item if the DM allows.)

Even if you can't avoid the 20% miss chance, the 'invisible attacker' bonuses (+2 and they lose their Dex bonus) may cause your expected number of hits to actually go up (and of course more will be sneak attacks.)

Also, concealment foils sneak attack, so as a rogue you may want a way to get around that. The Pierce Magical Concealment feat suggested above is good, as is a Blindfold of True Darkness (or Blindsighed weapon) if you can afford it. The blindsight is also good in case you get Glitterdusted / Obscuring Misted / etc.

Maybe ask if you can Permanency See Invisibility via items and Use Magic Device (note that the SRD Scrolls page has Perm scrolls, suggesting you can.)

Foiling concealment is especially important for PvP - I hear many contestants pick up a concealment ability specifically to hose sneak attackers.

[Darrin]

1.
I have a few questions:
Supposing I took a level of Assasin and a level of Avenger Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a).
That would give me 2 dice of sneak attack. I then take 5 levels of swashbuckler so I can qualify for Daring outlaw.
Presuming I took 5 levels of swashbuckler that is the minimum, that would be 3d6 dice of sneak attack if those levels where rogue.


The typical entry for Daring Outlaw is Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3, take Daring Outlaw at ECL 6, and then finish off with something that looks like Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16. The "minimum" to get Daring Outlaw is Swashbuckler 3. The only reason to continue to take Swashbuckler levels is the full BAB, particularly if you want to combine sneak attack with the usual two-handed power-attack damage-multiplyer shenanigans.

Another good entry is Thug 3 (Fighter variant from UA/SRD (http://srd.realmspire.com/unearthedCoreClass.html#thug))/Swashbuckler 3, then finish off with Swashbuckler. This gives you full BAB for all 20 levels.



Now I don't have any rogue levels to stack my swashbuckler levels with for sneak attack. Would those Swashbuckler levels give sneak attack by themselves?


There are differing opinions on this, so you'll need to check with the DM, but generally, yes, most folks allow "Rogue 0 + Swashbuckler X" to count towards Daring Outlaw.



2.
What is the best way of getting my sneak attack on an opponent.
The best way I can think of is either a level of bard and a level of druid and either way trade a animal companion for distracting attack which would give me sneak attack on every attack.


Distracting Attack is a 4th level Ranger ACF. I don't see how bard would help there. Some DMs might allow a druid to trade their animal companion for Distracting Attack (the druid animal companion is much stronger than the ranger's, and Distracting Attack would probably be considered "trading down"), but that'd be a houserule.

Also, Distracting Attack wouldn't apply to every attack. It won't apply to the first attack, and you have to hit and do damage to apply it to any subsequent attack. If the next attack on that opponent misses, the flanked status goes away until you can establish it again. Also, while Distracting Attack allows you to count as a flanker for your allies' next attack, and you do count as your own ally (per the Glossary in the PHB), there's a bit of rules hiccup on whether you can "flank with yourself" (you generally need at least two allies to establish flanking, even with Distracting Attack). So check with your DM on that one. At any rate, I'd recommend against Distracting Attack.

Other ways to trigger Sneak Attack:

1) Wand of Grease/ice slick/path of frost. A UMD Rogue is best, although there are a couple ways to get UMD as a class skill. A dip into wizard, cloistered cleric, Magical Training regional feat (PGtF), or Planar Touchstone linked to the Catalogues of Enlightenment (for the Magic domain power) allows you to activate spell-trigger items as a 1st-level wizard.

2) Marbles (Arms & Equipment Guide p. 24). 2 SP per bag, spread into a square as a standard action, essentially a 5' x 5' square of non-magical grease. With some GP or ranks in Handle Animal, you can train a monkey to do this for you, and then it's only a move action instead of a standard action. Make the monkey a familiar, animal companion, or wild cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) and it becomes a free action. However, in an arena setting, familiars/animal companions/cohorts can be a bit fragile and subject to one-shots.

3) Greater invisibility, particularly if you can add Persistent Spell to it, but this is difficult to do without a lot of arcane caster levels.

4) Swordsage dip (Tome of Battle). If you take your first Swordsage level at ECL 5, you can pick up the Cloak of Shadows maneuver, which gives you invisibility for the entire round as a swift action. The Island of Blades stance also makes flanking stupendously easier. If you then take your second Swordsage level at ECL 8, you can take Assassin's Stance for +2d6 Sneak Attack. And since you're going to be spending a lot of time in Shadow Hand stances, taking the Shadow Blade feat to add your Dex bonus to damage isn't a bad idea, either. There are also a few maneuvers that render an opponent flat-footed.

5) Grappling. If you get the Scorpion's Grasp feat or the Improved Grab ability (Spirit Bear Totem Barbarian or Amphibious template + Scaled Horror PrC), you can initiate a grapple on a successful attack, and then choose to treat yourself as outside the grapple with a -20 attack penalty (you may be able to use Multigrab and Improved Multigrab to reduce this). Familiars/animal companions/wild cohorts can also be used to set up a grapple, but mules are much cheaper: 8 GP each, and with a little extra time or GP, you can train them to use the Hold trick (Complete Adventurer p. 100) to establish a grapple. However, this strategy is completely hosed by freedom of movement, which isn't exactly uncommon in arena battles.

6) Blind your opponent. There are a couple ways to do this cheaply and without allowing a save: dust eggshell grenades (10 GP, Oriental Adventures) require only a ranged touch attack (5' range increment), and the target is blinded for 1d4 rounds, no save. There's also a 2nd level druid spell in the Spell Compendium, blinding spittle, that blinds as a ranged touch attack (-4 attack penalty), no save. Getting that spell on your spell list as an Assassin or Arcane Trickster/Unseen Seer can be a little tricky, but if you go the UMD route, a wand of blinding spittle only costs 4500 GP. If you're willing to take your chances with a save, there are a bunch of other items/spells/enhancements that can blind opponents.

7) Ring of Blinking + Pierce Magical Concealment has already been mentioned. Very effective, but expensive (at least 27000 GP for the ring).

8) Hide in Plain Sight + massive Hide bonus. There are several ways to get HiPS, although some are better than others (Shadowdancer's is generally considered the best, since it can usually be done without cover/concealment). The "massive Hide bonus" part is generally accomplished with dips into Factotum, Marshall, and maybe a little Incarnum (for the Kruthik Claws soulmeld).

9) Confound the Big Folk tactical feat, Knee Striker option (Races of the Wild). Best when used in a I May Be Tiny But You're Dead (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872846/I_May_Be_Tiny_But_Youre_Dead_the_other_melee_Kille r_Gnome_for_your_pleasure) build, but there are several variations out there.

10) Stunning. Very difficult to do reliably, although Pounce + Shape Soulmeld: Thunderstep Boots + Open Least Chakra: Feet is probably the easiest to pull off at lower levels (i.e., ECL 6).



3.
What would the best race be?
I'm considering playing a elf and use elven thinblades ora water Orc with dragon splits.


Your feats are too precious to waste on Improved Weapon Familiarity or Exotic Weapon Proficiency. The elven thinblade/lightblade only does +1 damage on average than a non-exotic weapon. You're better off sticking with a rapier or kukris and spend that feat on something like Craven or Travel Devotion.

As far as race:

Human, Azurin, or Strongheart Halfling are probably still best for the bonus feat.

Lesser or Savage Progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) Tiefling is pretty decent: medium size, Dex bonus without a Str penalty.

Whisper Gnome (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=3) is also a strong pick, and the silence ability can be quite handy for shutting down spellcasters.

If you're trying to maximize your number of attacks, Earth or Desert Kobold has three natural attacks that can be added to your full attack progression as secondary attacks.

[Hazzardevil]

This all depends on your DM's interpretation of the feat since the errata and the sage are silent on the issue. If your DM allows this interpretation of Daring Outlaw to work I would see if you can get away with Swashbuckler 3/ Sneak Attack Fighter 3/ Feat Rogue 14 (not necessarily in that order though, rogue first for sneak attack). This would net you 11d6 sneak attack, 8 bonus feats, and 16 BAB.


Ring of Blinking + Mage Slayer feat + Pierce Magical Concealment feat


Feats are a scarce resource. Taking EWP for Thinblades or Dragon Splits means delaying other potentially useful feats. Besides if you're planning to focus on sneak attacking the difference between a d6, d8, or d10 weapon is negligible when you're actual purpose is to add fistfuls of d6 sneak attack damage. Short Swords, Kukris, or even Daggers are great for sneak attack builds.


Take Craven and the TWF chain. More attacks per round = more potential sneak attacks per round.

Craven and TWF were planned already, I'm considering splashing a level of crusader and using 2 feats for the aforementioned shadowhand strike and assasins stance so I can recover the boost every turn.

I'll look into the ring of blinking, mage slayer and pierce magical concealment.