Starcraft 2 Thread 5: Hey, You Got Banelings In My M&Ms!

[The Glyphstone]

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9540/mmbane.jpg

Because they're like deadly green landmines! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzMhh8zhTiY)

StarCraft 2 is a real time strategy game by Blizzard that was released on July 27th, 2010. This thread is for general discussion with no real focus within the game.

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Here we discuss strategy, story, gameplay, Esports, casters and generally share awe inspiring moments.

Threads
One (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142825)
Two (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158508)
Three (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165601)
Four (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176154)

GitP Group (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162205) Saturday. 5pm est
GiTP Rankings (http://sc2ranks.com/c/680)


Sharing replays:

1) Save your replay in Battlenet. Give it a descriptive name.
2) Find replay on hard drive. Usually in My documents/starcraft2/user#/users#/replays/multiplayer
3) upload it to a file share site. http://www.sc2replayed.com/ is good, as is www.sc2rep.com , and so is others.
4) post link here.

Downloading replays:

1) click on link
2) download file
3) to launch, double click on replay file or drag replay file onto starcraft2 shortcut. sometimes need to log in, but plays immediately.

[Turalisj]

Warp process successful.

[Spartacus]

Superfluous end quote tag at the end, and no link to thread 4.

[The Glyphstone]

Superfluous end quote tag at the end, and no link to thread 4.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[arguskos]

Huzzah! New thread is new! Glorious. :smallcool:

We need an introductory topic. Anyone have anything in mind?

[Silverraptor]

Oh god, the banelings!

We need go put the picture from last thread into the OP.

[Turalisj]

I settled on getting the shiny AlienWare laptop. I should be able to get the cheaper one at the end of the month, in time for the local con.

Steve Chenault of Troll Lord games was there last time, among others. Including one of Gygax's sons.

[Turalisj]

Do you guys know if this (http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&series_name=dv6t_series&a1=Processor&v1=Intel&a2=Category&v2=High performance) laptop can run sc2 effectively?

The only thing that is getting me confused is figuring out which computer has a good enough processor @_@

[Emlyn]

Let me be frank, don't buy that laptop. At best it'll SC2 will crawl along, and good luck with any game that doesn't have good scaling. In fact, in general, never buy directly from a manufacturer. I highly advise using newegg.com as you will almost always find something better for cheaper. If you give your price range I can point out some stuff for you, otherwise just browse the sight.

[Turalisj]

Price range is close to or less than $500. The only the processor I can't figure out, I can't find any comparison guides.

I could always build one. My brother built his desktop from spare school computer parts.

[The Glyphstone]

Do you guys know if this (http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&series_name=dv6t_series&a1=Processor&v1=Intel&a2=Category&v2=High performance) laptop can run sc2 effectively?

The only thing that is getting me confused is figuring out which computer has a good enough processor @_@

I own that exact machine (well, series - a dv6300, maybe a 6400 - the sticker fell off), and your answer is a resounding NO. I can only run it at all on the lowest possible settings, and it still lags horribly in any sort of online play.

[Emlyn]

Desktops are easy to build, laptops not. Your bigger issue is actually the graphics card as any dual core, which is almost a universal feature, is going to get the bottleneck for gaming.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220866
I would recommend this as it is on sale for a fair bit and more importantly it doesn't have an integrated intel card.

[Turalisj]

Except its out of stock, which doesn't help.

[mangosta71]

I think you can still get the sale price if you order it, you'll just have to wait a little longer for it to arrive than normal.

[Turalisj]

Here's two others I saw...

A Samsung (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+-+Laptop+/+Intel%26%23174%3B+Core%26%23153%3B+i3+Processor+/+15.6%22+Display+/+4GB+Memory+/+500GB+Hard+Drive+-+Silver/1814118.p?id=1218293981088&skuId=1814118)

And A refurbished Asus (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6810297&CatId=4965)

[Recaiden]

I must say, that is a wonderful picture.

As to laptops, I have a Sony VAIO something or other, and it runs fine on medium settings.

[Spartacus]

So upon a quick poll of 4 friends (asked separately), Concussive Shells was put forward as the most powerful upgrade in the game, overall. I then mentioned Stimpack and Warp Gate, and all 4 realized they were a little silly. Still goes to show how people perceive the game.

Slightly telling, the closest any of them could come to such a tech for Zerg was Zergling Speed, hardly on the same level as Stim.

[arguskos]

So upon a quick poll of 4 friends (asked separately), Concussive Shells was put forward as the most powerful upgrade in the game, overall. I then mentioned Stimpack and Warp Gate, and all 4 realized they were a little silly. Still goes to show how people perceive the game.
C-Shells is pretty good for cost. Warp Gates/Stims are still superior though.


Slightly telling, the closest any of them could come to such a tech for Zerg was Zergling Speed, hardly on the same level as Stim.
Zerg has less "defining" upgrades. Only Roach Speed and Ling Speed are really truly defining upgrades like Warp Gates or Stims or Seashells.

[Kyeudo]

Zerg has less "defining" upgrades. Only Roach Speed and Ling Speed are really truly defining upgrades like Warp Gates or Stims or Seashells.

Ever seen a Zerg have a heyday with Neural Parasite? I'd say that upgrade is pretty defining.

Hydralisks are also so much better once you get Grooved Spines its amazing.

[Aron Times]

Hello everyone. It's been a while since I last visited the GitP forums. My Starcraft 2 nickname is now EternalDalek#756, though if you've already added me to your friends list, I will still be on it with the new name.

Since I was last here, I have switched full-time to Random, and am now using the High Templar icon (Random 1v1 250 Wins). Having a decent Random icon would have made me e-peen bigger if not for getting demoted to Platinum due to a massive losing streak due to my skills having atrophied in the months that I stopped playing Starcraft 2. I'm hoping that I will make it back into Diamond 1v1 soon as I've been playing against a lot of Diamond players lately (low Diamond, mind, but still Diamond).

Anyway, the reason I am here is because I am looking for a teammate for 2v2 AT play. I would like to play 4v4 games, since most of my Starcraft 1 experience has been with 4v4 games in a cybercafe with my friends, and my Warcraft 3 ladder experience has mostly been 3v3 RT on the Asian (Kalimdor) server since 4v4 RT wasn't available, but my computer is over five years old and sometimes dips below 30 FPS in 200/200 battles (especially when there's a Zerg player around). 2v2 is a compromise between 1v1's low requirements and being able to play with a team.

So, anyone up for it? I will be playing Random, by the way, since I want the corresponding Random portraits for team games.

[Kyeudo]

You know what really sucks? The feeling you get when you realize that you needed to have started your anti-air unit production at least 30 seconds sooner as Zerg, because right now there's a pack of Void Rays lasering your queens to death. Every other race can at least spam some basic unit and try to do something, but Zerg has to specifically build to be able to deal with air. WHY? Why do air units have to be like a second form of Dark Templar?

[Darth Mario]

You know what really sucks? The feeling you get when you realize that you needed to have started your anti-air unit production at least 30 seconds sooner as Zerg, because right now there's a pack of Void Rays lasering your queens to death. Every other race can at least spam some basic unit and try to do something, but Zerg has to specifically build to be able to deal with air. WHY? Why do air units have to be like a second form of Dark Templar?

Queens aren't a basic unit? :smallconfused:

[term1nally s1ck]

Queens aren't really spammable unless you start mass producing early.

[Kyeudo]

Queens aren't a basic unit? :smallconfused:

If you can't pop it from larva, its not a basic unit for Zerg.

[Kneenibble]

Anyone here play Night of the Dead?

[Darth Mario]

Queens aren't really spammable unless you start mass producing early.

It's not unreasonable in the least to have three queens on the field in a 2basing zerg's play, and by the time a "pack" of Void Rays gets to your base you can pretty easily have another two up as fast as at least Terran could get out the handful of marines he would need to deal with the same. Grouped up, with transfuse, those Queens are going to provide ample defense. We're not talking huge numbers here.

[term1nally s1ck]

2 void rays beats 2 queens pretty handily, and unless you're not vomiting on both hatches they can pick off one before the queen stops it.

2 void rays and 2 phoenixes destroys 4-5 queens.

[Suedars]

You know what really sucks? The feeling you get when you realize that you needed to have started your anti-air unit production at least 30 seconds sooner as Zerg, because right now there's a pack of Void Rays lasering your queens to death. Every other race can at least spam some basic unit and try to do something, but Zerg has to specifically build to be able to deal with air. WHY? Why do air units have to be like a second form of Dark Templar?

Mutas are good against a lot of air (like everything but BCs, Phoenixes, and Corruptors) and are quite standard. Hydras are part of the basic build for ZvP as well.

[Kyeudo]

Mutas are good against a lot of air (like everything but BCs, Phoenixes, and Corruptors) and are quite standard. Hydras are part of the basic build for ZvP as well.

Notice that part about 30 seconds? I had 4 Void Rays come in about 30 seconds before my spire was done. He'd just transitioned from some 2 gate zealot pressure, so both of us were off our ideal timings. I had 2 queens, no evo chamber, and no hydra den. My spire finished and I built 3 mutas, which would have been enough to kill the void rays if I had been able to build them as soon as I saw the void rays (since they'd have had a queen to support them and the void rays would be on low damage), but my spire was still building then, so I just got to watch as the fully charged void rays roasted them and then went back to killing my drones.

Getting a response to air is part of every non-all in Zerg build because Zerg have to tech to Tier 2 just to be able to shoot up with something massable. Yeah, if you start pumping queens from the moment your hatchery pops, you can have a good mass of queens, but they are slow to replace and you almost have to be psychic to use that as a response to air.

[Recaiden]

So upon a quick poll of 4 friends (asked separately), Concussive Shells was put forward as the most powerful upgrade in the game, overall. I then mentioned Stimpack and Warp Gate, and all 4 realized they were a little silly. Still goes to show how people perceive the game.

Slightly telling, the closest any of them could come to such a tech for Zerg was Zergling Speed, hardly on the same level as Stim.
Warp Gate and Stim aren't so much upgrades as requirements.


Hello everyone. It's been a while since I last visited the GitP forums. My Starcraft 2 nickname is now EternalDalek#756, though if you've already added me to your friends list, I will still be on it with the new name.

Since I was last here, I have switched full-time to Random, and am now using the High Templar icon (Random 1v1 250 Wins). Having a decent Random icon would have made me e-peen bigger if not for getting demoted to Platinum due to a massive losing streak due to my skills having atrophied in the months that I stopped playing Starcraft 2. I'm hoping that I will make it back into Diamond 1v1 soon as I've been playing against a lot of Diamond players lately (low Diamond, mind, but still Diamond).

Anyway, the reason I am here is because I am looking for a teammate for 2v2 AT play. I would like to play 4v4 games, since most of my Starcraft 1 experience has been with 4v4 games in a cybercafe with my friends, and my Warcraft 3 ladder experience has mostly been 3v3 RT on the Asian (Kalimdor) server since 4v4 RT wasn't available, but my computer is over five years old and sometimes dips below 30 FPS in 200/200 battles (especially when there's a Zerg player around). 2v2 is a compromise between 1v1's low requirements and being able to play with a team.

So, anyone up for it? I will be playing Random, by the way, since I want the corresponding Random portraits for team games. Hello. I would put myself forward (I mainly play 4v4 Random) but since I don't know what AT or RT mean, I feel like I'd be over my head. Recaiden (549) over there.


Anyone here play Night of the Dead?

I played it once. Fun, but a bit easy, and I prefer games with more people.

[Suedars]

Getting a response to air is part of every non-all in Zerg build because Zerg have to tech to Tier 2 just to be able to shoot up with something massable. Yeah, if you start pumping queens from the moment your hatchery pops, you can have a good mass of queens, but they are slow to replace and you almost have to be psychic to use that as a response to air.

Which is very similar to Toss and detection. Either you tech to a Robo, or you build cannons in your base and are unable to move out if the opponent has stealthed units.

[Cynan Machae]

Hello. I would put myself forward (I mainly play 4v4 Random) but since I don't know what AT or RT mean, I feel like I'd be over my head. Recaiden (549) over there.

RT and AT stand for Random Teams/Arranged Teams

[Recaiden]

RT and AT stand for Random Teams/Arranged Teams

Thank you.

[dgnslyr]

A stroke of genius inspired me to look up the Chinese wikipedia page for Starcraft 2. Now I feel the need to learn all the names.

Some of the more interesting names include:
Thor: thunder god
Ultralisk: thunder beast
Mutalisk: flying mantis
Hydralisk: thorn snake

[Turalisj]

Starcraft 6: GREAT THORNY SNAKES!

[dgnslyr]

A bit soon for that, are you?

[Turalisj]

Preemptive strike.

[Aron Times]

I mean no offense to those who volunteer to be my 2v2 partner, but I'm looking for someone within one league of me in 1v1 (Platinum, Diamond, or Master). And someone I can trust with shared control.

[Recaiden]

@^: No offense taken. As I said, I do 4v4s, not 1v1.


A stroke of genius inspired me to look up the Chinese wikipedia page for Starcraft 2. Now I feel the need to learn all the names.

Some of the more interesting names include:
Thor: thunder god
Ultralisk: thunder beast
Mutalisk: flying mantis
Hydralisk: thorn snake

Well, Thor is in fact a thunder god. :smalltongue:
And the mutilisks are from an animal called a mantis screamer.
Hydralisk is neat though.

[DrizztFan24]

I almost pulled off the iEchoic TvT build last night. I had the hellions, a handful of vikings, and 5 or so banshees, I scanned the other guys base and spotted a huge amount of rines, sprinkled marauders, and 3 tanks. I was so thrilled....it was perfect. Then he killed my hellions...and beat up my banshees, but I eliminated his army. From then on, it was both of us running on fumes as I continue to get banshees and he pumps marines and tries to keep a raven out. I felt like an idiot afterwards....I thought "Why in the world did I keep making banshees? All he had was marines and scvs...why no blue hellions?" *facedesk* I'll put the replay up as soon as I can.

[LordShotGun]

The Husky + Day9 casts were pretty damn good. Check them out on huskystarcraft in case your not already subscribed (Why the heck are you not?)

[Silverraptor]

So, I want to do a protoss fight, but I encounter a problem. I don't know what to do really in PvP, especially on this map (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/149113-1v1-protoss-scrap-station) where I like to do flyers. I did a cannon rush against him, being that its the only thing I could think of using against him.

Could I get advice of good PvP openings, especially on scrap station of flyers?

[Suedars]

Going for early air is a bit sketchy on Scrap Station, since normally you use forcefields on your ramp to hold off a 4 gate (which is extremely common in PvP) until you get your air units out and can beat it. Because of Scrap Station's wide ramp you can't FF it, making any build that can't straight up fight a 4 gate very risky. You might be best off delaying your air a little, going for a defensive 3 gate expand or 2 gate robo build to survive the 4 gate, then getting your stargate once you get your expo running.

[Silverraptor]

However, whenever I try to expand to my natural, my enemy always seems to come and wipe it out. I don't really know what I need to do to defend my natural against early attacks.

[mangosta71]

So, you want a VR rush build order?

[Suedars]

Could you post a replay or two of you losing an early natural?

[Silverraptor]

So, you want a VR rush build order?

Yes please. I got Banshee's down.

[The Glyphstone]

I just won Smash And Grab on Brutal literally by a nose - I killed my 3rd stone statue almost simultaneously with the Zerg swarm killing theirs, and it gave the victory to me.

[Dragon Elite]

So, I'm getting Starcraft 2 soon, Tuesday in fact, and I was wondering what basic tips you can give.

I know about the basics, build orders, constant worker production, expand while rushing, &c. I watch Day[9], so I know some basic strats, and I was just wondering what race is best for a beginner?

My friend has played Sc2 before, and he says Terran is the best, which is true, stims and combat shields are way too cheap (50/50? Really Blizzard?). But I think the Zerg takes advantage of the other player's mistakes better (easy to make a new army quickly to counter). However, I was thinking of playing as random too, because most people don't know good, generic builds at the start.

Wow, I guess I do know a lot about this game, but still, what races are you favorite, and why?

[Spartacus]

I like Protoss, and I do not know why. I am about as good at Terran as I am at Protoss, but I prefer Protoss. I hate making a Bioball, so I largely play Mech with Marine support. My Zerg is horrible and would lose to Silverraptor or Glyphstone.

[Recaiden]

So, I'm getting Starcraft 2 soon, Tuesday in fact, and I was wondering what basic tips you can give.

I know about the basics, build orders, constant worker production, expand while rushing, &c. I watch Day[9], so I know some basic strats, and I was just wondering what race is best for a beginner?

My friend has played Sc2 before, and he says Terran is the best, which is true, stims and combat shields are way too cheap (50/50? Really Blizzard?). But I think the Zerg takes advantage of the other player's mistakes better (easy to make a new army quickly to counter). However, I was thinking of playing as random too, because most people don't know good, generic builds at the start.

Wow, I guess I do know a lot about this game, but still, what races are you favorite, and why?

I never like stimpacks. I must be a terrible Terran Player. I do play Random, but Protoss is my favorite. Phoenixes and Void Rays are so much fun. And sentries are also nice.

Zerg are ok, but using Queens is so tedious.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I never like stimpacks. I must be a terrible Terran Player. I do play Random, but Protoss is my favorite. Phoenixes and Void Rays are so much fun. And sentries are also nice.

Zerg are ok, but using Queens is so tedious.

Try Bancheese. Particularly against Zerg, it's quite effective.

[Suedars]

Try Bancheese. Particularly against Zerg, it's quite effective.

You can also just pick up free wins out of nowhere with it against Tosses that aren't going Robo, since their detection has to be specifically teched to.

[Kyeudo]

I love my Zerg. You never have to worry that much about queueing, you almost never have to build more buildings just for production, and creep is like a free map hack if you know what you are doing.

On the subject of Bancheese, it is so effective against Zerg because it requires both detection AND the ability to shoot up effectively, two things Zerg must pre-plan to have.

EDIT: Just held off a diamond league player's 4 gate by taking the gold minerals as my first expansion. It was fun. Take a look. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/149361-1v1-protoss-zerg-scrap-station)

[Silverraptor]

I like Protoss, and I do not know why. I am about as good at Terran as I am at Protoss, but I prefer Protoss. I hate making a Bioball, so I largely play Mech with Marine support. My Zerg is horrible and would lose to Silverraptor or Glyphstone.

QFT.

We are both on the low end of the skill spectrum here.:smalltongue:

[Eldariel]

Lol. Second game in forever and it throws me into Master League O.o I even lost my first one. The basis can't be just plain win/loss...

[Cynan Machae]

Same happened to me, hadn't played ladder since november, and two weeks ago when I played I got to master with my first win. It's only based on hidden MMR which isn't related at all to w/l ratio or points

[The Glyphstone]

Lol. Second game in forever and it throws me into Master League O.o I even lost my first one. The basis can't be just plain win/loss...

Wait, there is such a thing as master league?

[term1nally s1ck]

For Dragon Elite, I'd recommend playing Random at least for now, and you might find that one naturally fits your style.

I'm still playing as Random, because I can't decide between the three. :smallbiggrin:

[Eldariel]

Wait, there is such a thing as master league?

It was added some time around December (when neither me nor Cynan played, apparently); basically, Master-league should contain the top 5% of the player-base. Diamond is the league a step under Master-league. Apparently Blizzard found the skill gaps in Diamond too large so they wanted to further split the player-base.

And of course, I'm now facing random 1-base all-ins all the time in Master (today a Voidray all-in, a Banshee all-in and an Immortal all-in out of the 5 games I played; two opponents actually expanded) so guess I need to climb Ladder-ranking to start facing some competent players.


As for the races, I like Terran due to the largest amount of built-in versatility in the units (tho frankly, that's a bit of a leftover from Brood War-days and not so true in SC2; SC2 mostly has micro-intensive units and then Vikings for some good stuff but getting infinite dropships automatically still caters to my taste) and the emphasis on micro control and small skirmishing style combat with meticulous execution being the key to success; a Banshee loses to 3 marines heads-on but with proper control you can kill dozens with each. Same with Hellions, Vikings and company (though it's true that Tanks and Thors have less impressive a spectrum of potency depending on your micro).

Zerg is a tad bit more macro-heavy and generally wins through outmacroing and thus overwhelming the opponent. Protoss, on the other hand, generally wins through steadfast and a doom push though there's definitely leeway in Protoss strategy and most of it falls between the two extremes in Terran and Zerg (not quite as micro intensive as Terran, but not quite as able to just overwhelm someone by throwing an army after an army at them as Zerg).

[The Shadowmind]

Bronze league ranks is getting annoying. Start at 60~70 ranks at 0 points, win a few matches to get around 10~20 points and get to 60~50 ranks, then lose a single match and end up with less than 5 points again, back to the 60~70 ranks.

[Suedars]

I wouldn't worry about ranks much. They don't really mean anything since you'll advance out of your league eventually and they don't actually determine your advancement.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I love my Zerg. You never have to worry that much about queueing, you almost never have to build more buildings just for production, and creep is like a free map hack if you know what you are doing.

On the subject of Bancheese, it is so effective against Zerg because it requires both detection AND the ability to shoot up effectively, two things Zerg must pre-plan to have.

EDIT: Just held off a diamond league player's 4 gate by taking the gold minerals as my first expansion. It was fun. Take a look. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/149361-1v1-protoss-zerg-scrap-station)

Concerning your match-up:

Well, it was fairly clear that both of you have some things to work on.

He transitioned from a strong 4gate into... a couple of void rays? They forced you to go Hydra, but since he was going 4gate anyways, hydra is a natural choice, as they are rather good at all of the gate tech units he had out.

I will say this much, at least your opponent knew how to keep his bank account low. At the end there, you had over 3k in minerals. I don't think you ever got much under 1k after your expansion. You could have ended the game *much* sooner if you had used what was available to you.

Specifically, you got too scared by a couple of cannons. Those probes were the *only* ones he had. Taking them out, even sacrificing every single Muta you had, would have won you the game.

Good snipe on the robo, you killed it before he could get thermal lances. That must have pissed him off butt good.

At the end, it was broodlords for the win, which really surprised me, since he already had phoenixes flying around. It would have been fairly trivial to deal with them, but instead he rage-quit.

Of course, at that point it was mere mop up for you anyways, seeing as how you had a *massive* economy advantage over your opponent, who never mined out of more than one base at a time. Hell, even if he had taken out every single one of your drones at that point, you still had enough in the bank to simply swarm him.

Personally, if I were toss, I'd have *started* with the void ray rush, then transitioned into 4gate. But then, the short air rush distance on that map, compared to the longer ground rush distance, always screams 'void ghey/bancheese' to me.

[Shadowleaf]

You can also just pick up free wins out of nowhere with it against Tosses that aren't going Robo, since their detection has to be specifically teched to.
If they don't scout your Starport with Tech Lab, they're just asking to die anyway.

[LordShotGun]

You can also just pick up free wins out of nowhere with it against Tosses that aren't going Robo, since their detection has to be specifically teched to.


I play protoss and that is one of my biggest problems in gold. You are pretty much forced to get robotics bay or at least two cannons per mineral line (as two banshees can focus down one cannon before your army gets there).

Protoss really needs another form of mobile detection and one suggestion that I liked alot on the starcraft forums was to make Archons detectors. Archons really need a boost for their cost and being a detector would allow people to go twilight council builds (although after KA was removed I dunno why).

[Turalisj]

I never like stimpacks. I must be a terrible Terran Player. I do play Random, but Protoss is my favorite. Phoenixes and Void Rays are so much fun. And sentries are also nice.

Zerg are ok, but using Queens is so tedious.

Dark Templar rush. You need to be quick and have a good defense to deter any attacks beforehand, but if you can pull it off you can take out the main base before the other guy reacts.

[term1nally s1ck]

Ehh, I'm never the biggest fan of going DT rush. Too much of an all-in for me, you have to hit him very hard or you lose.

Personally, I feel like the strongest play for protoss these days is blink stalker opening, expanding and dropping your robo as you put pressure on, and then picking either DTs or Colossi to tech to depending on what you see of your opponent's mix.

DT/Stalker/Immortals/Zealots with an observer is as terrifying a mix as Colossi/Stalker/Sentry/Zealot. Use the stalkers to pick off any detection if necessary, and watch as the DTs melt their army, while yours is scarily durable.

[LordShotGun]

Ehh, I'm never the biggest fan of going DT rush. Too much of an all-in for me, you have to hit him very hard or you lose.

Personally, I feel like the strongest play for protoss these days is blink stalker opening, expanding and dropping your robo as you put pressure on, and then picking either DTs or Colossi to tech to depending on what you see of your opponent's mix.


That's what is good about blink stalkers is that unlike other race's harassment tech like banshee's cloak or roaches tunneling claws, blink is useful for the rest of the game especially against zerg tier 3 as blink stalkers rip apart broodlords and can kill ultralisks if your good or lucky. Blink is also good for running away, or catching running units, or blink micro to extend your army strength.

[Karoht]

Protoss really needs another form of mobile detection and one suggestion that I liked alot on the starcraft forums was to make Archons detectors. Archons really need a boost for their cost and being a detector would allow people to go twilight council builds (although after KA was removed I dunno why).I disagree that Protoss need another form of detection (as Observers are pretty darned good), but I agree that such a change would make Twilight Council builds more viable, along with making a Robo-less build viable.

[Recaiden]

Protoss really needs another form of mobile detection and one suggestion that I liked alot on the starcraft forums was to make Archons detectors. Archons really need a boost for their cost and being a detector would allow people to go twilight council builds (although after KA was removed I dunno why).

I agree that Twilight Council builds need something, but again, not detection. If anything, the Zerg have the hardest time keeping detection on the field, given how the new Queens are, and how expensive Overseers are.

[LordShotGun]

I agree that Twilight Council builds need something, but again, not detection. If anything, the Zerg have the hardest time keeping detection on the field, given how the new Queens are, and how expensive Overseers are.

Well how expensive are Archons? Also you can have an Overseer whenever and wherever you want without losing anything except money as apposed to Archons where they pretty much suck.

Well how about instead of a permanent detection ability, how about an activated ability similar to EMP and Fungal Growth that decloaks hit units. Or better yet make psi storm detect invisible units who are inside of it.

[Recaiden]

Well how expensive are Archons? Also you can have an Overseer whenever and wherever you want without losing anything except money as apposed to Archons where they pretty much suck.

Well how about instead of a permanent detection ability, how about an activated ability similar to EMP and Fungal Growth that decloaks hit units. Or better yet make psi storm detect invisible units who are inside of it.

I forgot that Fungal Growth did that, and giving such a thing to Archons would make sense. Though now that I think about it, they could well be detectors in game. :smallconfused:

Also, you lose supply when they kill the big target you're making of your overseer by including it. :smalltongue:

[Suedars]

If they're killing your Overseer they're generally killing a bunch of other units as well, making losing the bit of supply cap not too painful.

[Karoht]

Or better yet make psi storm detect invisible units who are inside of it.Psi-Storm already acts as a detector though. Psi-Storm a suspected area. Are there dead things? Great, you detected the invisible units. Huzzah.


And I agree that detection isn't really the thing to make the Twilight Council more popular in early builds. Archons could probably use a buff though. Maybe decrease their merge time? Would also help in later game. And Archons are anti-air units as well, which could give Protoss a boost for early anti-air.

[Turalisj]

Psi-Storm already acts as a detector though. Psi-Storm a suspected area. Are there dead things? Great, you detected the invisible units. Huzzah.

I think he means something like 'surround hit targets with an aura that lights them up' or something useful like that.

[Karoht]

I think he means something like 'surround hit targets with an aura that lights them up' or something useful like that.
And I was making a joke. =D

[The Glyphstone]

It's like the old vampire joke: If you suspect them of being a vampire, drive a wooden stake through their heart. If they were a vampire, this will kill them. Conveniently, it will also kill them if they're not a vampire.

[Silverraptor]

It's like the old vampire joke: If you suspect them of being a vampire, drive a wooden stake through their heart. If they were a vampire, this will kill them. Conveniently, it will also kill them if they're not a vampire.

Everybody wins!

[Karoht]

It's like the old vampire joke: If you suspect them of being a vampire, drive a wooden stake through their heart. If they were a vampire, this will kill them. Conveniently, it will also kill them if they're not a vampire.Exactly.
If Psi-storm had an additional area around the Psi-storm area that detected, that would work. But, we'd be back to the problem of the K-amulet which is effectively a Psi-storm nerf. So it really wouldn't change much about the issue of the Twilight Council in the build.

[mangosta71]

Archons could probably use a buff though. Maybe decrease their merge time? Would also help in later game. And Archons are anti-air units as well, which could give Protoss a boost for early anti-air.
"Early" anti-air? You'll have stalkers out long before you get HTs or DTs. Besides, with archons being slower than a queen off creep and having a shorter attack range than a zealot, they're not much of a deterrent to air harassment. About the only thing they're good for is soaking damage - they'll never catch anything that they can kill.

[Turalisj]

Anyone else see Bnet down?

[Kyeudo]

Anyone up for doing some Team Monobattles? I've got some free time this afternoon.

[Silverraptor]

Anyone up for doing some Team Monobattles? I've got some free time this afternoon.

Don't know what monobattles are. But I feel really pumped about playing some games after watching the Day 9 coverage of the tournament. However, I'm streaming my 400th win in LoL first so...

[Artanis]

I just won Smash And Grab on Brutal literally by a nose - I killed my 3rd stone statue almost simultaneously with the Zerg swarm killing theirs, and it gave the victory to me.

Smash and Grab is one of the very few missions I've beaten on Brutal :smallcool:

I still haven't beaten All In on Hard though :smallfrown:

[Kyeudo]

I still haven't beaten All In on Hard though :smallfrown:

Do belly of the beast, then mass Vikings and Battlecruisers. Three bunkers plus like 5 siege tanks can handle all the ground troops at each entrance to your base. Get all the upgrades for Vikings and Siege tanks and use the nova whenever things look hairy.

[Recaiden]

Smash and Grab is one of the very few missions I've beaten on Brutal :smallcool:

I still haven't beaten All In on Hard though :smallfrown:

I would say it depends on if you have Psi Disruptor or Hive Mind Emulator. Psi Disruptor works quite well against ground units, but with the Emulator you can overwhelm all opposition with mind-controlled Mutas and Brood Lords.
Against ground, a 3 line defense of perdition turrets, bunkers, and tanks can handle anything but Kerrigan, and a pack of banshees can keep the Nydus worms down with just a little bit of work.

[The Glyphstone]

I would say it depends on if you have Psi Disruptor or Hive Mind Emulator. Psi Disruptor works quite well against ground units, but with the Emulator you can overwhelm all opposition with mind-controlled Mutas and Brood Lords.
Against ground, a 3 line defense of perdition turrets, bunkers, and tanks can handle anything but Kerrigan, and a pack of banshees can keep the Nydus worms down with just a little bit of work.

Indeed - I had the HME when I Let's Played through on Hard, and it was a breeze vs. air.

Next time, I'm going to try going v. ground with the HME, and leave a few Nydus worms alive to give me infinite free Ultralisks for lulz.

[Turalisj]

I would say it depends on if you have Psi Disruptor or Hive Mind Emulator. Psi Disruptor works quite well against ground units, but with the Emulator you can overwhelm all opposition with mind-controlled Mutas and Brood Lords.
Against ground, a 3 line defense of perdition turrets, bunkers, and tanks can handle anything but Kerrigan, and a pack of banshees can keep the Nydus worms down with just a little bit of work.

Massed ghost sniping ftw against kerrigan.

[Eldariel]

Massed ghost sniping ftw against kerrigan.

Thor Stun works (or at least worked in the earlier patches) on Kerrigan too, very useful.

[Recaiden]

Massed ghost sniping ftw against kerrigan.

A few brood lords work wonders if you have them.

[mangosta71]

A few brood lords work wonders if you have them.
Yeah, the AI is kinda stupid. Attack with a bunch of broodlords and watch the AI start frantically trying to kill all the broodlings while your lords continue to rain more down into them.

[Silverraptor]

How I finish the All in mission is Mass Seige tanks and flame turrets (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1zRFpDcpnY&feature=related).

[Silverraptor]

So, I was really bored of MMT and I saw Day 9's funday about no MMT's. So I decided to go blue flame helion, just to try them out. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/150397-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis) I fully expected to lose to him since I had no idea what I was doing. I was prepared to surrender, but since I had killed 2 changlings that game, I was waiting around for him to send a few more so I could get the achievement. In the meantime, I wanted to harass his expansions with helions and vikings. Damn those things cut through zerg like butter!:smallbiggrin:

So I NEED to know the proper Helion/Viking building procedure. I will be doing this strat against alot of zerg players.:smallbiggrin:

Edit: Also, could I get in on that monobattle for funday monday?:smallsmile:

[Artanis]

Woot! Beat All In!

Thank you guys for the help. The comments about flame turrets and HMCs/Psi Disrupters helped big-time, in no small part because I tend to completely forget that I have them. Once I threw them into the mix, it got a hell of a lot easier :smallbiggrin:

[Semidi]

So I was doing funday monday earlier today when I had a two hour game. We couldn't finish it because our only air unit was broodlords and the Terran lifted and floated to the corners of the map.

Still, epic game though. I hope we make it in. We covered the entire map in creep and mined out every base.

[The Glyphstone]

So I was doing funday monday earlier today when I had a two hour game. We couldn't finish it because our only air unit was broodlords and the Terran lifted and floated to the corners of the map.

Still, epic game though. I hope we make it in. We covered the entire map in creep and mined out every base.

Did the Funday ban muta/corruptor?

[LordShotGun]

See, I found All In ground version so be really really REALLY easy even on brutal. But there is one counter intuitive thing you MUST do. You have to destroy your mercenary building because it takes up valuable space that siege tanks need. Then just build masses and masses of siege tanks supported by psi disruptors and make sure you have ultracapacitors (the level one protoss researched attack speed tech).

Then build tons of marines to take care of Kerrigan and although they will almost certainly die, they kill her very quickly.

Here is a replay of how effective this tactic is. In fact I never had to go nydus hunting even on brutal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPBYYHXDoig&feature=channel_video_title

[Kyeudo]

Did the Funday ban muta/corruptor?

No, it's Team Monobattles. You can only build a single unit type beyond workers and (for zerg) queens and overlords.

[Silverraptor]

So guys? Could I please get an optimal build order for Helions and Vikings?:smallsmile: Also, could I get in on a monobattle? If we get eight of us, we could do an inhouse where all eight of us are only building 1 type of unit.:smallcool:

[Karoht]

No, it's Team Monobattles. You can only build a single unit type beyond workers and (for zerg) queens and overlords.Is the unit type set? So could I for example build Battlecruisers are there some restrictions?

[LordShotGun]

No, it's Team Monobattles. You can only build a single unit type beyond workers and (for zerg) queens and overlords.

Also static defenses are allowed so missle turrets, cannons, spine and spore crawlers.


So for protoss pick stalkers, for terran pick marines and for zerg....well your SOL except for maybe mutalisks...and a f***ton of spinecrawlers. Hmm actually with a few queens dedicated to creep mass spine crawlers and mutalisks does not sound that bad.

[Recaiden]

Also static defenses are allowed so missle turrets, cannons, spine and spore crawlers.


So for protoss pick stalkers, for terran pick marines and for zerg....well your SOL except for maybe mutalisks...and a f***ton of spinecrawlers. Hmm actually with a few queens dedicated to creep mass spine crawlers and mutalisks does not sound that bad.

What you do is load a bunch of drones into overlords (unless researching transport is disallowed), and then drop them in a base with a few queens, generating creep, and start building crawlers.

[DrizztFan24]

No, it's Team Monobattles. You can only build a single unit type beyond workers and (for zerg) queens and overlords.

Medivacs and hydras

[term1nally s1ck]

Rec, you can load spinecrawlers into nydus worms and iirc overlords. Just build em and drop em there yourself. :smallbiggrin:

I kinda wanna do one of all the dfferent units bar transports. Potential silliness ensuing with mass high templar being unable to kill any buildings ever, requiring me to use my drones to kill his buildings.

Mass Raven could be hilarious, Mass Ghost would be lulzy but VERY VERY hard to do...

Mass Mothership?

Mass Banelings. :smallbiggrin:

[KuReshtin]

Mass Mothership?


That'd work REALLY well, considering you can only build one mothership at a time. :smallbiggrin:

[Kyeudo]

That'd work REALLY well, considering you can only build one mothership at a time. :smallbiggrin:

They did it last time. IT WAS AWESOME! It really ended up being mass cannons with a mothership, but it worked.

[Silverraptor]

So guys? Could I please get an optimal build order for Helions and Vikings?:smallsmile: Also, could I get in on a monobattle? If we get eight of us, we could do an inhouse where all eight of us are only building 1 type of unit.:smallcool:

Anyone?:smallfrown:

[Eldariel]

Umm, what kind of Hellion/Viking setup do you want? How many Factories and Starports? Only Hellions and Vikings or some other air too?

For monobattles, somebody has to go Mass Queen even though they're normally allowed anyways, just to throw things off. Mass Transfusion is <3 anyways.

[Silverraptor]

Umm, what kind of Hellion/Viking setup do you want? How many Factories and Starports? Only Hellions and Vikings or some other air too?

For monobattles, somebody has to go Mass Queen even though they're normally allowed anyways, just to throw things off. Mass Transfusion is <3 anyways.

Well, I want a build that gives me Blue Helions as fast as possible to repel zergling/roaches rush with Vikings quickly out to repel muta rushes. I will then prevent the zerg from expanding with greater manuverability.

[term1nally s1ck]

iEchoic build?

[Silverraptor]

iEchoic build?

Pardon?:smallconfused:

[Kyeudo]

iEchoic build?

That'd be a good suggestion. There's even a Day9 daily about it.

It's basically 1 Barracks that does nothing, 2 Factories for Hellions, and 2 Starports that make Vikings, Medivacs, and Banshees. If you need a finisher, he builds Battlecruisers late game.

[mangosta71]

Seems to me that the banshee rush build order could be tweaked. Instead of building a tech lab on your factory and then lifting, simply build a reactor on it (or do you need a tech lab to research blue flame? I don't usually mess with hellions). Same goes for the starport - no benefit to a tech lab, but a reactor doubles your viking production.

Barracks down at 12, factory at 15, starport at 18 IIRC - the sites I use to look up build orders are blocked at work. Actually, the banshee rush calls for 2 simultaneous starports, but if you're going hellion/viking you probably want to make the second port another factory.

[term1nally s1ck]

You need tech lab for blue flame. Personally, I'd put the tech lab on the barracks, and lift it for the factory, and then again for a starport to get banshees.

EDIT: Watch dis for hellion/banshee. (http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4745995/)

[Silverraptor]

Thanks for the build order and typical food count guys.:smallsmile: I'll work on perfecting it later. I hope to do a monobattle with you guys some time.:smallwink:

Edit: Uh, could I also get timings in addition to the food instructions? I would like to know the usual time I should expect a dozen or so zerglings/roaches and what time the opponent should have mutas if they focused on them from the beginning.

[Shadowleaf]

Thanks for the build order and typical food count guys.:smallsmile: I'll work on perfecting it later. I hope to do a monobattle with you guys some time.:smallwink:

Edit: Uh, could I also get timings in addition to the food instructions? I would like to know the usual time I should expect a dozen or so zerglings/roaches and what time the opponent should have mutas if they focused on them from the beginning.
You should never limit yourself to one strategy, it's a surefire way to lose.

You should always scout your opponent before commiting to something like Blue-flame Hellions, cloak Banshees, etc., especially if it's a very all-in build.

If you scout early (at ~11 food, I usually send the SCV I had building my first Depot) and spot a finished Spawning Pool, your opponent probably 6-pooled, and you will have 6 Zerglings in your base shortly. Act accordingly. If you scout a gas at this point, he's probably going to be popping out Roaches soon, so Hellions will be next to useless. If neither has happened, he is fast-expanding, and you're gold. Keep your scout around - if he doesn't throw down a Roach Nest and instead goes for a Lair, he'll be bringing Hydras/Mutas to the table. You'll have some time to get out some Hellions as he'll be saving his gas (both Mutas and Hydras are pretty gas-heavy).

In my experience, Hellion-'rushing' a Zerg doesn't work. Any smart Zerg will know to throw down a Roach Nest just in case - going directly for Mutas or Hydras isn't that great against a Terran, seeing as Marines are great against both those units. Roaches are a strong unit, and most importantly they can deal with the dreaded Marauders.

[Silverraptor]

I thought Maraders were effective against roaches?:smallconfused:

[Khosan]

Marauders counter Roaches pretty handily.

I think, in general, you'll want to go heavy Zergling against Terran for early defense. Before a Terran can pull together a ball o' death, Lings are pretty good at handling Marines and marauders.

For Protoss, Roaches are effective at defense. Zealots and Stalkers aren't great counters to them.

[Silverraptor]

Marauders counter Roaches pretty handily.

I think, in general, you'll want to go heavy Zergling against Terran for early defense. Before a Terran can pull together a ball o' death, Lings are pretty good at handling Marines and marauders.

For Protoss, Roaches are effective at defense. Zealots and Stalkers aren't great counters to them.

Thanks.:smallsmile:

[DrizztFan24]

I just got Bunker rushed into bronze league...as terran. I scouted and didn't see anything super aggressive, so I built up about 4 hellions and a viking...only to have a bunker and three siege tanks outside my base shooting at my wall. I had never had anything like that happen to me. He had the scan, so banshees did nothing...and the marines in the bunkers made the hellions useless. Oh well. I guess I will have to squash cannon rushes till I make it back up again.

[Semidi]

Well, I want a build that gives me Blue Helions as fast as possible to repel zergling/roaches rush with Vikings quickly out to repel muta rushes. I will then prevent the zerg from expanding with greater manuverability.

I don't want to staunch creativity, but using vikings to take out mutas is generally a bad idea. Mutalisks tend to rip them apart.

[Eldariel]

I don't want to staunch creativity, but using vikings to take out mutas is generally a bad idea. Mutalisks tend to rip them apart.

No, not exactly. What you're saying is true without micro, but Vikings' massive range means that they can be microed against Mutas very efficiently. It's the same thing as Marines vs. Banelings; if you just attack-move, the Marines will die by with proper micro it's actually fairly even.

As I've said before, Terran is the most micro-intensive race in the game. How good a given Terran strategy is depends heavily on how well the units are controlled.

[Lord Herman]

Do you guys watch any commentaried replays of Starcraft 2 games? I always find such commentaries very helpful in learning how a particular RTS is played.

I've already learned quite a bit from those by Team Liquid (http://www.youtube.com/teamliquidnet) and HDstarcraft (http://www.youtube.com/user/HDstarcraft). Anyone know of any other good ones?

[Eldariel]

Do you guys watch any commentaried replays of Starcraft 2 games? I always find such commentaries very helpful in learning how a particular RTS is played.

I've already learned quite a bit from those by Team Liquid (http://www.youtube.com/teamliquidnet) and HDstarcraft (http://www.youtube.com/user/HDstarcraft). Anyone know of any other good ones?

Day 9 (http://day9tv.blip.tv/) is probably the most knowledgable commentator in the game. He actually makes educational dailies; I'd definitely make it a point to watch at least the ones that are analyses of games, and some games he casts. But especially the analyses.

And since you're already aware of HDStarcraft, his companion-in-crime, HuskyStarcraft (http://www.youtube.com/user/huskystarcraft?blend=1&ob=4) is also worth checking out. And of course, GSL games (http://www.gomtv.net/) are casted by Tasteless+Artosis and the first game of each match can be viewed for free.

[Shadowleaf]

I thought Maraders were effective against roaches?:smallconfused:
Sorry, it was around 2 AM when I posted that. :smallsigh:

[LordShotGun]

Do you guys watch any commentaried replays of Starcraft 2 games? I always find such commentaries very helpful in learning how a particular RTS is played.

I've already learned quite a bit from those by Team Liquid (http://www.youtube.com/teamliquidnet) and HDstarcraft (http://www.youtube.com/user/HDstarcraft). Anyone know of any other good ones?

This guy also does pure gameplay analysis commentary and has pretty good relations with several big name SC2 pros and gets their nontournament and normal ladder games quite often.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BlizShouter?feature=chclk

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I just got Bunker rushed into bronze league...as terran. I scouted and didn't see anything super aggressive, so I built up about 4 hellions and a viking...only to have a bunker and three siege tanks outside my base shooting at my wall. I had never had anything like that happen to me. He had the scan, so banshees did nothing...and the marines in the bunkers made the hellions useless. Oh well. I guess I will have to squash cannon rushes till I make it back up again.

That's not a bunker rush, that's a tank rush with bunker support.

[Suedars]

That's not a bunker rush, that's a tank rush with bunker support.

Yes, from the description it doesn't sound like he was putting much pressure on. Just containing you. If he scans, pull your Banshees back, wait for the scan to wear off, and head back in. He shouldn't have spotting onto your high ground for his tanks, since your vikings should give air superiority.

[Semidi]

No, not exactly. What you're saying is true without micro, but Vikings' massive range means that they can be microed against Mutas very efficiently. It's the same thing as Marines vs. Banelings; if you just attack-move, the Marines will die by with proper micro it's actually fairly even.

As I've said before, Terran is the most micro-intensive race in the game. How good a given Terran strategy is depends heavily on how well the units are controlled.

Eheh... No they can't. Mutalisks out run vikings but a substantial amount. Micro all you want, you'll get off one volley--maybe two before the mutalisks catch up and put the hurt on. The only exception is if you have vikings behind marines and thors. Edit: With this exception, missile turrets do the same job but for cheaper, if a viking ball moves out mutalisks will catch up and wreck it. In other words, it's a huge waste of money (unlike pheonixes).

[DrizztFan24]

Yes, from the description it doesn't sound like he was putting much pressure on. Just containing you. If he scans, pull your Banshees back, wait for the scan to wear off, and head back in. He shouldn't have spotting onto your high ground for his tanks, since your vikings should give air superiority.

He had a medivac I was trying to hit. He has the bunker positioning perfect so I could only get one shot on it before he retreated. Then the scvs repair the medivac and continue the poundage while he builds a turret. Ill get my replays up some time this week.

[Eldariel]

Eheh... No they can't. Mutalisks out run vikings but a substantial amount. Micro all you want, you'll get off one volley--maybe two before the mutalisks catch up and put the hurt on. The only exception is if you have vikings behind marines and thors. Edit: With this exception, missile turrets do the same job but for cheaper, if a viking ball moves out mutalisks will catch up and wreck it. In other words, it's a huge waste of money (unlike pheonixes).

The turrets were kinda given. Or hell, Raven with Seeker Missile or whatever. Just something that prevents them from following you through the map; seems kinda given.

[Silverraptor]

Eheh... No they can't. Mutalisks out run vikings but a substantial amount. Micro all you want, you'll get off one volley--maybe two before the mutalisks catch up and put the hurt on. The only exception is if you have vikings behind marines and thors. Edit: With this exception, missile turrets do the same job but for cheaper, if a viking ball moves out mutalisks will catch up and wreck it. In other words, it's a huge waste of money (unlike pheonixes).

So, I understand that terran just sucks at air control if their anti-air loses to things that suck in straight up fights to begin with.

[HalfTangible]

So, I understand that terran just sucks at air control if their anti-air loses to things that suck in straight up fights to begin with.

Vikings are pretty decent against mutas whenever I make mutas :(

And phenixes own everything they outrange thanks to their move and attack thing.

Edit: well, CAN own everything. Depends on how many of each type of unit there is and how long you're willing to kite

[Eldariel]

So, I understand that terran just sucks at air control if their anti-air loses to things that suck in straight up fights to begin with.

Vikings deal extra damage against heavily armored targets; they're great for taking those out. They, however, are rather poor against Mutalisks since Mutalisks are light; a curiosity that carried over from Brood War (back then Muta was practically the only light air unit (Corsair & Observer were the other two) and practically all AA was Explosive (50% to light units - Missile Turrets, Dragoons, Goliaths, Wraiths, Scouts) which effectively made them twice as durable as their HPs would lead you to believe, except relevantly against Marines, Archons, High Templar, Science Vessels and Photon Cannons). Of course, nowadays there are other relevant light air units (Phoenixes, Banshees) but that's irrelevant to the point at hands.

Their type makes Mutalisks somewhat effective against Vikings, but not Phoenixes that deal extra damage to light units instead (and are eminently microable in air). Do mind though, as I said, Vikings can be microed very effectively against Mutas with any heavy damage source to work off due to their immense range.


But yeah, Vikings are quite effective against other Vikings, Corruptors, Voidrays, Battlecruisers, Carriers, Brood Lords and the like. Phoenix vs. Viking is kinda silly since both deal reduced damage but they're about even with mitigating factors on both sides, leaving Mutas to beat Vikings and Phoenixes to beat Mutas (in equal food, at any rate; of course the math depends).

So, your statement only really applies to TvZ. In TvT and TvP Vikings are great air superiority units with equal or favorable match-up against all other air units, and supreme range. Mutalisk is really the only unit with type advantage against Vikings.

[Lord Herman]

Thanks, Eladriel and Lord Shotgun. I'll watch those when I'm done with StarcraftHD's recent casts. :smallsmile:

By the way, has anyone else been experiencing random crashes during solo custom games? I've been playing them against the AI for achievements (which you don't get if you play offline), but I've had four crashes in the 15-odd games I've played. Never had any crashes in offline games.

Speaking of achievements, I like the way the newbie achievements are set up. The ones where you have to produce a certain number of marines/zerglings/zealots had me thinking about making a build order that was actually efficient, instead of just making that spawning pool whenever I happened to be floating enough resources. :smalltongue:

[DrizztFan24]

instead of just making that spawning pool whenever I happened to be floating enough resources. :smalltongue:

So...off of 6 drones right? :smallwink:

[Eldariel]

TeamLiquid Star League 3 (http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/TeamLiquidTV) being streamed here! Game 1 of the last match of the day, Slayers_Boxer vs. NightEnd is just starting! Everybody should tune in right now!

EDIT: Game two just started! Tune in right now if you haven't already!

EDIT#2: Alright, it's over for the day. Just a heads-up; more games tomorrow, lots of awesome players, check up the time and be there!

[Cynan Machae]

Much much better that the GSL final games from yesterday.

[Eldariel]

Much much better that the GSL final games from yesterday.

Definitely; bleh at those. Tho the play from MC in the first game of the finals was pretty sexy.

[Eldariel]

Today's TSL games here (http://www.ustream.tv/teamliquidtv) - Jinro vs. Morrow as we speak!

[DrizztFan24]

Here are some of the previous replays that I posted, I don't know if they ever got reviewed, the naming contest kind of took over right after I posted these. But I would appreciate reviews and critiques.:smallbiggrin:
Reapers in a TVP game (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145698-1v1-terran-protoss-gutterhulk)
A custom game vs another terran, took advantage of mobility. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145682-1v1-terran-metalopolis)
I win against a failed VRR. Timing Window (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145680-1v1-terran-protoss-xelnaga-caverns)
I TOTALLY had this game...till he double expanded and I didn't catch it. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145678-1v1-terran-zerg-shakuras-plateau) Well maybe not...if he had the money to double expand he probably should have won earlier.
My first try with a reaper rush vs toss. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145675-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis#rd:units) It actually turned out kind of well.
Successful nuke rush...less successful follow-up. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145672-1v1-terran-protoss-steppes-of-war) I didn't see the early gold and so it avoided my explosive fury. But since the game was one of those "Screw it, I'm going nuke!" games I don't feel so bad.
Silver vs Plat...how well do you think THAT went? (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145664-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis) He toyed with me the whole game.
I got cattlebruisers. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145663-1v1-terran-protoss-xelnaga-caverns) I saw the SUPER early probe and was like "Why is he scouting so early? *light turns on* Oh crap..." I scouted the early forge to confirm my suspicions...and then I decided to go with a massive air fleet to punish his poor decision making.

And these are the newer replays.
iEchoic's Strat vs mass BCs and banshees, my win. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/152515-1v1-terran-delta-quadrant)
iEchoic's again. But I lost. I wasn't thinking and kept up the banshees when I should have done hellions. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/152516-1v1-terran-metalopolis)
I saw the double gas and went "Hmmm. expand or pressure? I'll expand. Oh look, a gold expo that makes a fine natural. My win. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/152519-1v1-terran-backwater-gulch)
iEchoic's again. I love it. But I lost to mass marines...how do I manage to pull that off? Who knows... (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/152521-1v1-terran-gutterhulk#rd:units)
This one I tried a new hotkey set-up. And it worked well. I managed to keep enough production up to keep his tanks out of "ma' grill". My win. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/152524-1v1-terran-backwater-gulch)
I was suspicious when I saw the two gas and only 1 gateway. Then I scanned and saw the robo. I pushed the pedal to the metal and pumped out infantry to knock down his door before he got colossus out. My win. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/152526-1v1-terran-protoss-xelnaga-caverns)
Our resident Raptor and I square off. I abused his cannon investment and cheesed with reapers. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/152527-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis)
I loaded this before watching it. I thought he gave me the win. Turns out he sacrificed almost all of his drones in that last push. I guess I managed to hold in well enough. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/152528-1v1-protoss-zerg-backwater-gulch)

[Legoshrimp]

So I learned something today, Stalkers actually can make a decent defense to cannon rushes. Also I suck at scouting on slag pits, two games now I have scouted all of the naturals and not the mains. :smalleek: I'll upload the replay whenever I finish making an account at the replay site I decided to go with.

Edit: Or SC2replayed won't recognize the map slag pit and then I'll decided to go to bed instead of bothering to figure it out now.

So what replay site does everyone use?

[Silverraptor]

So I watched the funday monday, and it was hilarious!:smallbiggrin:

"And of course, missle turrets are the perfect defense to combat helions and zerglings"

Oh, and my favorite of all time.

Stalker-"Attack, Retreat, Attack, Retreat? Okay fine, Retreat, past the bunker over and over again."

I'm only about halfway through and have to reload it again for the second half. I want to try placing in 3v3 and 4v4 now just so I can join you guys in future monobattles.

[Kyeudo]

I couldn't get a team together for the monobattles. I was looking forward to massing Infestors and Spine Crawlers.

[Artanis]

Oh hey, a patch.

Looks like the Khaydarin Amulet upgrade was indeed removed.

[Karoht]

I couldn't get a team together for the monobattles. I was looking forward to massing Infestors and Spine Crawlers.
Yeup, Infestors is what I'd be gearing towards. Early enough in the tech tree, cheap enough to mass, deadly in masses, extra army from infested marines, Fungal Growth = awesomesauce, and tunnelling to work your way in. Oh boy!

[Silverraptor]

Whats the theme for next week's funday monday? If its monobattles, I'd love to join you Kyeudo

[Kyeudo]

Whats the theme for next week's funday monday? If its monobattles, I'd love to join you Kyeudo

It's not monobattles, it's Nuke rushing.

[Silverraptor]

It's not monobattles, it's Nuke rushing.

When does he say that?

[Khosan]

When does he say that?

At the end.

You can't expand or attack in any way until you get at least one nuke built and you have to drop at least three nukes throughout the game.

[Silverraptor]

At the end.

You can't expand or attack in any way until you get at least one nuke built and you have to drop at least three nukes throughout the game.

It cut off at the end for me, just before the last game ended. It just went to a commercial and ended. Bummer.

Edit: What time does Day 9 do a stream live?

[Legoshrimp]

Normally now. 7:05 PST at http://www.justin.tv/day9tv But today he is not because he has to finish his masters thesis. I suggest going back and watching some of the nooby tuesdays that you have missed if you want to watch something. The archives are day9tv.blip.tv

[DrizztFan24]

If that is the case then I already have a replay for Funday Monday. I have had it for a few months now. :smalltongue: I think I linked it.

[Silverraptor]

If that is the case then I already have a replay for Funday Monday. I have had it for a few months now. :smalltongue: I think I linked it.

Is that link in with the million others? Can you point it out for us with less attention span than- Oooooo! Look! A squirrell!

[Kyeudo]

Oooooo! Look! A squirrell!

Squirrel? Where?

[Silverraptor]

Squirrel? Where? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrAIGLkSMls&feature=related)

Fixed that for you.:smalltongue:

[Kyeudo]

Just played an intense ZvP. I was literally shaking. My left hand was vibrating so hard I had trouble hitting hotkeys and making control groups. My early game was slow, so when he attacked with four zealots I had nothing but drones. My expansion fell. I thought for sure that that would be game. Still, I hung on, made spine crawlers and a roach warren, and turtled my way through his early pressure.

I got my lair up and put down my only hope: Mutalisks. If I could harass him enough that he was one basing against my one base, I might be able to come back, take my expansion, and even things up.

It went better than I could have imagined. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/153465-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Just played an intense ZvP. I was literally shaking. My left hand was vibrating so hard I had trouble hitting hotkeys and making control groups. My early game was slow, so when he attacked with four zealots I had nothing but drones. My expansion fell. I thought for sure that that would be game. Still, I hung on, made spine crawlers and a roach warren, and turtled my way through his early pressure.

I got my lair up and put down my only hope: Mutalisks. If I could harass him enough that he was one basing against my one base, I might be able to come back, take my expansion, and even things up.

It went better than I could have imagined. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/153465-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns)

Now that was an awesome replay, and an example of how Z can beat a 4Gate opening.

Your opponent, however, was married to the 4gate tactic so much, however, that he refused to change tactics, even when it was clear it wasn't working.

He should have done more against your muta harass. That was, ultimately, what won you the game. You wrecked his economy time and time again. If I were he, after the first couple of muta harass swipes, I'd have had cannons all over my minerals. Enough to make you think twice about it, and give me time to move my stalkers over to counter, anyways.

You were in bad shape when he took out your early expo, but you managed to chase him off with crawlers, lings, and roaches, which were your primary composition of ground troops until later on when you added Hydra.

I don't see why he called you an @$$hole. He had the advantage, and failed to take it to the win. He gave the tactical advantage to you the moment he moved his containment forces back to his base. From that point on, he was on the defensive, and you were on the offensive. Bad tactical decision at that point.

Also, he never even saw your Broodies who had just shown up. If your muta hadn't taken him out, the broodlords would have. He lost the game when he lost his entire army. You had the ability to make a new one. He didn't.

Excellently played, definitely a textbook study case for anyone who wants to play Z better.

[DrizztFan24]

Is that link in with the million others? Can you point it out for us with less attention span than- Oooooo! Look! A squirrell!

Ouch, bro. Just posting a lot of them so if folks are looking for something specific they can have better odds of finding what they might be interested in.
This one. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145672-1v1-terran-protoss-steppes-of-war)

[Silverraptor]

Just played an intense ZvP. I was literally shaking. My left hand was vibrating so hard I had trouble hitting hotkeys and making control groups. My early game was slow, so when he attacked with four zealots I had nothing but drones. My expansion fell. I thought for sure that that would be game. Still, I hung on, made spine crawlers and a roach warren, and turtled my way through his early pressure.

I got my lair up and put down my only hope: Mutalisks. If I could harass him enough that he was one basing against my one base, I might be able to come back, take my expansion, and even things up.

It went better than I could have imagined. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/153465-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns)

That was awesome. I love how he called you an @$$hole because he wasn't building cannons or chaging his strategy and for you doing what zerg is suppose to be doing.:smalltongue:

Also, I remember you wanted to know when you should transition to a Hive. By watching this game, I would say that when you have about 600-800 minerals and you're just building up your forces should be when you should transition to hive. Atleast, from my observations.

[Newhill]

Just played an intense ZvP. I was literally shaking. My left hand was vibrating so hard I had trouble hitting hotkeys and making control groups. My early game was slow, so when he attacked with four zealots I had nothing but drones. My expansion fell. I thought for sure that that would be game. Still, I hung on, made spine crawlers and a roach warren, and turtled my way through his early pressure.

I got my lair up and put down my only hope: Mutalisks. If I could harass him enough that he was one basing against my one base, I might be able to come back, take my expansion, and even things up.

It went better than I could have imagined. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/153465-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns)

I liked the way you transitioned into mutas when you were contained, but kinda felt that you should have seen the Zealot rush coming. You scouted the two gateways, but did not respond in any way, just put down your hatch, and even got gas before pool. Luckily, the mutas freaked him out. :smallbiggrin:

If anyone cares for an example of how zerg can hold off a 4gate without losing his nat, I think this might be interesting. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/153522-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis)

Please note that I still made quite a few mistakes, I didn't scout properly for proxy pylons, lost a queen, and my macro slipped. If anyone have additional input, it would be much appreciated. Both me and my opponent are platinum, btw.

[Kyeudo]

I liked the way you transitioned into mutas when you were contained, but kinda felt that you should have seen the Zealot rush coming. You scouted the two gateways, but did not respond in any way, just put down your hatch, and even got gas before pool. Luckily, the mutas freaked him out. :smallbiggrin:

I forgot to click the warp rift, so I thought that was his cyber core. :smallredface:

[Silverraptor]

I forgot to click the warp rift, so I thought that was his cyber core. :smallredface:

Did you see my suggestion on the hive Kyeudo?

[Artanis]

Just played an intense ZvP. I was literally shaking. My left hand was vibrating so hard I had trouble hitting hotkeys and making control groups. My early game was slow, so when he attacked with four zealots I had nothing but drones. My expansion fell. I thought for sure that that would be game. Still, I hung on, made spine crawlers and a roach warren, and turtled my way through his early pressure.

I got my lair up and put down my only hope: Mutalisks. If I could harass him enough that he was one basing against my one base, I might be able to come back, take my expansion, and even things up.

It went better than I could have imagined. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/153465-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns)
That was a fun replay. Congrats on the win :smallbiggrin:


Regarding all the comments about the Protoss player not transitioning: what it looked like to me was that he had memorized a fairly effective rush build order, but didn't have the skills to handle things once he no longer had a checklist in front of him. When Kyeudo survived the rush, the Protoss player didn't know what to do next, and was completely lost as Kyeudo proceeded to outplay him :smallwink:


And I agree that the Protoss player had no right to call you an ******* :smallsmile:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I liked the way you transitioned into mutas when you were contained, but kinda felt that you should have seen the Zealot rush coming. You scouted the two gateways, but did not respond in any way, just put down your hatch, and even got gas before pool. Luckily, the mutas freaked him out. :smallbiggrin:

If anyone cares for an example of how zerg can hold off a 4gate without losing his nat, I think this might be interesting. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/153522-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis)

Please note that I still made quite a few mistakes, I didn't scout properly for proxy pylons, lost a queen, and my macro slipped. If anyone have additional input, it would be much appreciated. Both me and my opponent are platinum, btw.

You got supply blocked at 18, just after he had scouted your early expo and you knew he had at least 2gate + cyber, which should have been a dead giveaway to a 4gate. I hate seeing an 18 supply block, because that early in the game, minor delays can have major consequences. Just a minor nitpick, but it's there.

By the 10 minute mark, you pretty much had things under control. You had fended off his first 4gate assault sucessfully, taken out his proxy pylon, and were gearing up.

The counter-push was great, although you let the zealot by who killed off your ling holding the beacon. His warp prism drop was hampered by the fact that he had over a dozen roaches in his base, powering down his gates.

In short, he made a push, you made an excellent retort, and retaliated appropriately.

Personally, since I knew you were roach heavy, I'd have tried to build a couple of immortals out of robo. Those things are hella effective against roaches. Use zealots to counter lings. It would have at least forced you to go Muta.

[Silverraptor]

I hate this. I can now no longer see how many total games I've played.:smallannoyed:

[Kyeudo]

I know. It's annoying. I want to know my Win/Loss percentage.

[Cynan Machae]

It should really just have been an option you can toggle if you want...

...or get into Masters <<

[Dragon Elite]

I am happy. Just beat my first human opponent. He was Protoss, I was terran. I got a medivac with 2 ghosts, nuked once, then ran in with my troops behind the cover of another nuke. :smallbiggrin: He only had a couple stalkers and zealots my MMM ball defeated him pretty well.

[The Glyphstone]

Pretty big balancing patch. K-Amulets gone, Stims research time increased, fungal growth cut in half, and extra engines on cattlebruisers. One of these things is not like the other...

[term1nally s1ck]

Fungal doing +damage to armored is nuts. I have no idea what to do in ZvZ anymore.

[Artanis]

Pretty big balancing patch. K-Amulets gone, Stims research time increased, fungal growth cut in half, and extra engines on cattlebruisers. One of these things is not like the other...

On the plus side, it finally decided to give me my Hard 25 achievement :smalltongue:

Also, I'm liking the new replay UI

[Recaiden]

Fungal doing +damage to armored is nuts. I have no idea what to do in ZvZ anymore.

The answer is always Zerglings. :smallwink:

[term1nally s1ck]

Fungal instagibs lings.

Erm...not really. The entire of ZvZ is now defined by 'lol infestors' and I struggle to see a way to stop that happening. It's like protoss sentries, only with the killing too.


There's a lot of gas units that work still, including mutas and hydras....but there's not much that you can burn them minerals on. I guess I could resurrect the old mass queen option, but with infestors? Lets me tech to hive sooner, which gets me the happy happy brood lords that queens love so much.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Fungal instagibs lings.

Erm...not really. The entire of ZvZ is now defined by 'lol infestors' and I struggle to see a way to stop that happening. It's like protoss sentries, only with the killing too.


There's a lot of gas units that work still, including mutas and hydras....but there's not much that you can burn them minerals on. I guess I could resurrect the old mass queen option, but with infestors? Lets me tech to hive sooner, which gets me the happy happy brood lords that queens love so much.

Yea, pretty much the solution to lol infestors is lol broodies

[The Glyphstone]

On the plus side, it finally decided to give me my Hard 25 achievement :smalltongue:

Also, I'm liking the new replay UI

11 Brutal wins for me. Sara Kerrigan portrait will be mine yet.

[Recaiden]

11 Brutal wins for me. Sara Kerrigan portrait will be mine yet.

In Utter Darkness, man! A mission that is actually less ridiculous than some of them.

[Khosan]

Fungal instagibs lings.

Erm...not really. The entire of ZvZ is now defined by 'lol infestors' and I struggle to see a way to stop that happening. It's like protoss sentries, only with the killing too.

Better than 'lolroaches', 'lolbanelings' and 'lolmutas' which is what it's been in the past. At least Infestors are a unit you can't just a-move with. You're forced to micro them.

[Dragon Elite]

I've been playing a lots of custom maps lately, most notably Left 2 Die. I find it so fun. Also, lolfirebats and vultures seem to destroy everything except the flyers. Oh well, I guess you can't have everything.

[Silverraptor]

Fungal instagibs lings.

Erm...not really. The entire of ZvZ is now defined by 'lol infestors' and I struggle to see a way to stop that happening. It's like protoss sentries, only with the killing too.


Hey... Mass sentries can kill...:smallfrown: Day 9 proved that.

[Artanis]

11 Brutal wins for me. Sara Kerrigan portrait will be mine yet.

I've only got six :smallredface:

[LordShotGun]

Brutal is really not that hard. Honestly. As long as you don't forget the the A.I. now targets healing medics and repairing SCVs. So don't skimp on the medic numbers and if all else fails suicide rush the objective.

The suicide rush strategy has worked many times for me. Particularly on the battlecruiser mission and "A Sinister Turn". Mass yamato cannon the shield holding the artifact you need, and you instantly win the mission. Same with "A Sinister Turn" and immortals. Just make pure immortal and stalker and bum rush the preservers with blink since the immortals will hardly take any damage due to hardened shields.

Some of the best advice for my First Brutal run came from this guy who did it DRUNK!!!:smallbiggrin: http://www.youtube.com/user/PsyStarcraft#p/c/96557A7D61753181/10/lzRLdrSMFOM

[Artanis]

I'm really not that good, and there's a lot of missions that I can barely beat on hard. So Brutal is scary :smallfrown:

[The Glyphstone]

In Utter Darkness, man! A mission that is actually less ridiculous than some of them.

I'm actively dreading Brutal In Utter Darkness.


So why did BC's deserve a roughly 20% speed increase for no apparent reason? Does anyone actually play with them?

[Eldariel]

I'm actively dreading Brutal In Utter Darkness.

It's easy enough. You just gotta execute it somewhat decently and you'll get through and then some. Phoenixes to lift up hybrids and Colossi to wreck things alongside tons of cannons and some air and maybe few meats in the ground.


So why did BC's deserve a roughly 20% speed increase for no apparent reason? Does anyone actually play with them?

You kinda answered your own question.

[The Glyphstone]

It's easy enough. You just gotta execute it somewhat decently and you'll get through and then some. Phoenixes to lift up hybrids and Colossi to wreck things alongside tons of cannons and some air and maybe few meats in the ground.



You kinda answered your own question.

Point - but I've never even seen a game where I lasted long enough for either side to tech to them.

[Eldariel]

Point - but I've never even seen a game where I lasted long enough for either side to tech to them.

Oh, those happen aplenty especially on bigger maps where you get to macro up. Once you have 3-4 bases running, you can make a gradual tech switch into BCs quite easily. Only prob is, they no longer say "I win" with the ground damage nerf, making them far less potent than they used to be. So even if you could, it's not always worth it to tech into BCs. They definitely have a role to play tho.

Especially in TvT they definitely are a formidable option for the player controlling the skies; a single BC can easily trash a whole squad of Marines and Thors do nothing to them meaning the BCless player is just ****ed unless they get enough Vikings up to overwhelm yours AND the BCs. And TvT lends itself well to long games due to the position controlling power invoked by Siege Tanks and Terrans' generally strong defense.

[Kyeudo]

I'm actively dreading Brutal In Utter Darkness.


Building nothing but Colossi, saving regularly, and doing lift micro with the pheonixes gets you very far. Just build cannons once you max out on Colossi and focus Brood Lords down as soon as they appear.

[Eldariel]

Building nothing but Colossi, saving regularly, and doing lift micro with the pheonixes gets you very far. Just build cannons once you max out on Colossi and focus Brood Lords down as soon as they appear.

Strongly suggest making some air too; Voidrays and Phoenixes in particular but also some Carriers can't hurt. The thing is, Voidrays rock against Hybrids (and trust me, they'll be always fully charged) and more importantly, Broodlords, while Phoenixes lift Hybrids up and provide you with some extra muscle against Mutalisks. That setup got me the kill achievement on Brutal.

[Artanis]

So in other words, everything except Immortals and Gateway units? :smallconfused:

[Kyeudo]

Strongly suggest making some air too; Voidrays and Phoenixes in particular but also some Carriers can't hurt. The thing is, Voidrays rock against Hybrids (and trust me, they'll be always fully charged) and more importantly, Broodlords, while Phoenixes lift Hybrids up and provide you with some extra muscle against Mutalisks. That setup got me the kill achievement on Brutal.

You get all the air units you need from all of the warp-ins throughout the whole mission. If you lose too many or have a few extra food, yeah, throw in some void rays or pheonix, but you don't really need that many air units if you are proactive with your giant colossi ball.

[Eldariel]

So in other words, everything except Immortals and Gateway units? :smallconfused:

*chuckle* Maxing one unit is rarely optimal; indeed, the game would be incredibly boring if it were. But yeah, in that map you can rely on Photon Cannons for meatwalls so you have little need for the walking variants; makes most Gateway units quite useless.

Dark Templar are an exempt for the various block strategies, and High Templar can be good though run out of energy kinda quickly. And Immortals; well, they're only good if you can focus fire on the heavy types with them, which is kinda hard.

Btw, I was so sad it wasn't a Feat of Strength to finish the map after killing all the Omegalisks and the Zerg buildings.


You get all the air units you need from all of the warp-ins throughout the whole mission. If you lose too many or have a few extra food, yeah, throw in some void rays or pheonix, but you don't really need that many air units if you are proactive with your giant colossi ball.

I'm not sure that's optimal. It can work, sure, but Colossi block each other; to maximize the amount of firepower you have available at any given time, you'll prolly want to construct more air.

[Recaiden]

I'm actively dreading Brutal In Utter Darkness.


So why did BC's deserve a roughly 20% speed increase for no apparent reason? Does anyone actually play with them?

You know it can be done. I used mostly the starting defenders until the second attack on the left flank, meanwhile I built a nexus at the rich mineral place.
I trained only Dark Templar and Phoenix (and a few observers), an old strategy from SC1 campaign. Use the DT to wall off the two ramps leading down to the plateau (and pull all your units back when the rich base dies). Use phoenixes to focus down any overseers. Then put colossi behind the Templar and laugh.

Now, the Great Train Robbery... :smalleek:


As to the cattlebruisers, this makes them more playable. And I have seen them done in team league play.

[Eldariel]

Now, the Great Train Robbery... :smalleek:

Whuh? If you do it once you have Siege Tank tech, you literally only need to build a handful of those and siege them up; they wreck the killteams before they get anywhere near the tanks, they wreck the trains in a matter of seconds (mobile force obv most efficient) and you only need like 1 AA unit on the entire map so build one Viking or whatever. I've completed the mission with 0 units lost (admittedly, that involved stoving away all the Diamondbacks after the first two trains, since they're such a miserable unit). Without Siege Tanks you may need some effort but with them, it's IMHO literally the easiest mission in the game aside from the starters where you needn't do anything.

[Recaiden]

Whuh? If you do it once you have Siege Tank tech, you literally only need to build a handful of those and siege them up; they wreck the killteams before they get anywhere near the tanks, they wreck the trains in a matter of seconds (mobile force obv most efficient) and you only need like 1 AA unit on the entire map so build one Viking or whatever. I've completed the mission with 0 units lost (admittedly, that involved stoving away all the Diamondbacks after the first two trains, since they're such a miserable unit). Without Siege Tanks you may need some effort but with them, it's IMHO literally the easiest mission in the game aside from the starters where you needn't do anything.

Yeah, I had no siege tanks there, so it was quite a challenge.

Outbreak and All In were the other ones that gave me trouble on Brutal.

[LordShotGun]

See, I didn't have any problem on brutal using diamondback. In fact they are nearly necessary for killing the speed trains and I kept building them throughout the mission. Heck my best strategy is to make marine medic and diamondback.

MM grabs the attention of the guards and killteams when the diamond backs can shoot when moving allowing them to flank very easily.

[Eldariel]

See, I didn't have any problem on brutal using diamondback. In fact they are nearly necessary for killing the speed trains and I kept building them throughout the mission. Heck my best strategy is to make marine medic and diamondback.

MM grabs the attention of the guards and killteams when the diamond backs can shoot when moving allowing them to flank very easily.

That certainly works; I doubt it's as efficient as having a ball of Siege Tanks and slamming 'em next to whatever track the train is coming from tho :smallbiggrin: 0 effort, easy win, no casualties.


Out of memory, I had some trouble with:
- Zero Hour (killing the damnable Hatcheries)
- Welcome to the Jungle (Feat of Strength)
- Safe Haven (saving the 3 outposts)
- The Dig (killing the 'toss buildings)
- Supernova (the artifacts)
- All-In (Aces High)

[Artanis]

Yeah, I had no siege tanks there, so it was quite a challenge.

Outbreak and All In were the other ones that gave me trouble on Brutal.
Odd, Outbreak is one of the ones I've beaten on Brutal. Reapers are basically death incarnate on Outbreak, so you bunker the hell out of each entrance and then spam Reapers. It actually fit my playstyle extremely well in that way.


Edit:


Out of memory, I had some trouble with:
- Zero Hour (killing the damnable Hatcheries)
- Welcome to the Jungle (Feat of Strength)
- Safe Haven (saving the 3 outposts)
- The Dig (killing the 'toss buildings)
- Supernova (the artifacts)
- All-In (Aces High)
For the Feat of Strength on Welcome to the Jungle, you can have BCs on that mission :smalltongue:

I originally got the achievement without them (and without Siege Tanks, for that matter), but BCs make it hilariously easy :smalltongue:



Edit 2:

For the record, the ones I've beaten on Brutal are Outbreak, Smash and Grab, Breakout, Whispers of Doom, Belly of the Beast, and The Dig.

[Eldariel]

For the Feat of Strength on Welcome to the Jungle, you can have BCs on that mission :smalltongue:

I originally got the achievement without them (and without Siege Tanks, for that matter), but BCs make it hilariously easy :smalltongue:

I did it with Marauders as my only non-tech but I used the rather non-standard Marauder/Goliath mix. Was kinda difficult; the production and templar are pretty brutal (heh) on Brutal, but it's doable it seems. Not easy tho. Apparently MM&M works on Brut too, but dunno, don't like it myself due to vulnerability to Colossi and Templar.

[Recaiden]

Odd, Outbreak is one of the ones I've beaten on Brutal. Reapers are basically death incarnate on Outbreak, so you bunker the hell out of each entrance and then spam Reapers. It actually fit my playstyle extremely well in that way.


And without reapers, things don't go that way. I had one building left alive at the end, a barracks that was flying around the map, and my troops were dodging zombies all night long.

[Newhill]

So, I'm kinda having trouble with ZvP at the moment, especially holding off 4gates. Just lost (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/154659-1v1-protoss-zerg-scrap-station) to a 4gate after scouting it, and holding off for a really long time. I had more workers than him, and my money was lower, and he still outproduced me.

Any advice would be most welcome.

[Eldariel]

And without reapers, things don't go that way. I had one building left alive at the end, a barracks that was flying around the map, and my troops were dodging zombies all night long.

Huh? I just made a nice Firebat/Marine/Medic stack at each entrance and wrought some hell night and day. What are these bunkers people talk of?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So, I'm kinda having trouble with ZvP at the moment, especially holding off 4gates. Just lost (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/154659-1v1-protoss-zerg-scrap-station) to a 4gate after scouting it, and holding off for a really long time. I had more workers than him, and my money was lower, and he still outproduced me.

Any advice would be most welcome.

1) When you saw the 4gate, all you did was build roaches and more roaches. This let him toss in the occasional Immortal which seriously wtfpwns them.

2) You need Muta Harass if you ever want to beat a 4gate. Look back a couple of pages to see how it's done right. Hell, he was 1base, his min line was completely undefended. Six mutas would have wtfpwned his economy and given you back the advantage.

3) You were taking way more losses than he was. That's how he was keeping up with you. You never got any spine crawlers on the south side. This needed to happen to pull this off easier with less losses and less need for macro.

4) you had a nice, beautiful ledge which he was crammed up against most of the time, and you failed to take advantage of it. Come on, it's basically free hits. Perfect place to put your spine crawlers, in point of fact. Heck, his proxy pylon was within reach of your ledge...

5) He had immortals. This means you should assume he's got an obs floating around somewhere. Build an overseer and something that can hit air. This would have helped your flanking strikes be more successful.

[DrizztFan24]

Funday Monday completed!
Observe! (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/154731-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis)

[Turalisj]

*chuckle* Maxing one unit is rarely optimal; indeed, the game would be incredibly boring if it were. But yeah, in that map you can rely on Photon Cannons for meatwalls so you have little need for the walking variants; makes most Gateway units quite useless.

Dark Templar wall. That is all.

[mangosta71]

Huh? I just made a nice Firebat/Marine/Medic stack at each entrance and wrought some hell night and day. What are these bunkers people talk of?
Firebats with range upgrade in fully upgraded bunkers = Great Walls of Fire.

[Lord Herman]

Watching yesterday's TSL matches now. Exciting stuff.

Spoiler about one of yesterday's matches:
Loved the Adelscott vs MVP game. Was rooting for Adelscott because he seemed like a nice guy in the TLO games he was in. Plus I kinda hope the foreigners do well in this tournament.

I was pretty impressed by how Adelscott managed to micro his gateway units to good effect while at the same time out-economying his opponent. And I liked his use of upgrades to give him an edge over the terran bioball.


Oh, and thanks again to Eladriel for pointing me to Day 9's show. I'm sure I'm being Captain Obvious here, but he's very educational while at the same time being entertaining as heck.

[Eldariel]

Firebats with range upgrade in fully upgraded bunkers = Great Walls of Fire.

Remove the bunkers, add few medics and you have a self-repairing wall of fire that goes to roast thingies when it pleases :smallbiggrin:

Oh, and for the interested who missed the TSL games, TeamLiquid Youtube Account (http://www.youtube.com/teamliquidnet) has the VODs.


MVP vs. Adelscott
I was massively disappointed by the micro in the match but I guess that's a byproduct of lag for playing on the US server. Still, there's no excuse for losing...well, everything by Adel in G1 (the blinks, the colossus control, the zealot positioning were all off) and the whole early game by MVP in G2 (given his build, he really should've kept the marine and the reaper alive - not only that but he's extremely capable of doing just that). Losing units to workers is just...eww...

[Aron Times]

Looking at the GitP ladder, I see that we only have two active Masters and two active Diamonds (one of which is me, EternalDalek). What happened to everyone? Did the others get bored of Starcraft 2? Or perhaps got aggro'd by real life?

http://sc2ranks.com/c/680

[Eldariel]

Looking at the GitP ladder, I see that we only have two active Masters and two active Diamonds (one of which is me, EternalDalek). What happened to everyone? Did the others get bored of Starcraft 2? Or perhaps got aggro'd by real life?

http://sc2ranks.com/c/680

Naa, just played other games more lately (League of Legends being the main culprit). Solo ladder in SC2 is really quite the time investment so lacking the time to invest in it, I have mostly played 2v2s and 3v3s with friends every now and then. Besides, I know I'd need to play like 100 games to:
1) Get back to the rating category I belong in (since average ratings have risen so much)
2) Perfect various build orders for the new patches and maps (my game is about 4-5 patches behind)

It's just too much effort right now to get high on Master.

[The Glyphstone]

I've more or less given up on competitive play, because my computer can't handle running the game at anything about absolute minimum settings, and even then it lags horribly if processing more than a hundred or so units.

[Aron Times]

Here's something interesting:

http://sc2ranks.com/search/contains/all/dalek#points:0

I am the only EternalDalek in Starcraft 2, and I'm the highest-ranked among all Daleks.

/enlarge e-peen

[Kyeudo]

I've more or less given up on competitive play, because my computer can't handle running the game at anything about absolute minimum settings, and even then it lags horribly if processing more than a hundred or so units.

Zerg must give you a headache.

[Dragon Elite]

Looking at the GitP ladder, I see that we only have two active Masters and two active Diamonds (one of which is me, EternalDalek). What happened to everyone? Did the others get bored of Starcraft 2? Or perhaps got aggro'd by real life?

http://sc2ranks.com/c/680

I've gotten into Siege Tank Bronze level, hoping to move up eventually, even though I'm rock bottom right now. Username is Dragonic.

How would I join the group?

[Cynan Machae]

Naa, just played other games more lately (League of Legends being the main culprit). Solo ladder in SC2 is really quite the time investment so lacking the time to invest in it, I have mostly played 2v2s and 3v3s with friends every now and then. Besides, I know I'd need to play like 100 games to:
1) Get back to the rating category I belong in (since average ratings have risen so much)
2) Perfect various build orders for the new patches and maps (my game is about 4-5 patches behind)

It's just too much effort right now to get high on Master.
Lol that's exactly the same for me, except I would remplace LoL by Heroes of Newerth << I'm at like 2000 bonus pool it's just ridiculous how much games I would have to play. Might play a bit more after the reset, but else I'm just playing random team games or some games with people I know.

Btw, TSL day 4, can't wait for Mondi to play!

And:
Cruncher: :)
lol.

[The Glyphstone]

Zerg must give you a headache.

It's like playing a particularly shiny version of Dwarf Fortress. Except losing isn't fun.

[Eldariel]

Lol that's exactly the same for me, except I would remplace LoL by Heroes of Newerth << I'm at like 2000 bonus pool it's just ridiculous how much games I would have to play. Might play a bit more after the reset, but else I'm just playing random team games or some games with people I know.

Lol, same reason, practically the same game (I don't personally really differentiate between the various MoBAs). Tho I have you beat in the bonus pool; mine is over 4000 already, I think.

[Jimp]

I've more or less given up on competitive play, because my computer can't handle running the game at anything about absolute minimum settings, and even then it lags horribly if processing more than a hundred or so units.
Same for me. Bronze league will have to do until I get a better computer.

[Legoshrimp]

Yeah I'm about the same as you guys, although I am staring to play again! My goal for this season is to get to 50+ in my division. I couldn't really get higher since I hadn't laddered for 4 months. So I had ~600 points and the top of the division has 3k+. But next season I plan on getting up in my diamond(hope to get into masters but for that I would need to stop sucking).

[Kyeudo]

I am trying so hard to make Diamond, but it refuses to happen. I can pretty much curb-stomp most people in platinum, but diamond players continually overwhelm me with superior fundamentals. I'm #1 in my division and 300 points ahead of the #2 position. It is frustrating sometimes.

[Eldariel]

In case somebody isn't yet, you must start watching TSL Mondy vs. Zeerak right now (http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/TeamLiquidTV); Day9 and Dj Wheat casting!

EDIT: OHMYGODWTF! Watch Mondy vs. Zeerak G1 VOD right now!

Game spoilers:
Mondy BEASTING it BW style! Abusing the fact that Phoenixes need energy to touch ground units; you can kill 10 Roaches, sure, but how about 100? And you can defend one front with that ****, sure, but GL defending 3! Straight triple-expand into getting harassed into oblivion into ignoring that stupid air and wiping out economy instead of army; true BW-style game right there!

[Cynan Machae]

Mondi was my fav foreigner player in BW, so glad he's beasting it again ! :D

Best counter to phoenixes and void rays? Obviously roaches and more hatches!

[golentan]

Hey, just picked up SC 2 a couple days ago. And god I suck. Horribly, tremendously, amazingly. I could give the entire product line of hoover a run for their money.

Okay, I'm not that bad. I've got a good understanding of how common strategies work, and I've been warming up with a couple easy victories against AIs in Campaign and AI vs. modes before trying actual multiplayer. But I've got next to no micro, and I'm *slow.* I keep going and paying attention to X and when I come back I've got a thousand minerals I haven't actually put to use. Or I try to organize a retreat in good order and wind up losing everything I threw into the push instead.

Any advice on how I can improve other than "practice practice practice?" P.S. I prefer to play zerg if any advice is faction specific.

[Eldariel]

Hey, just picked up SC 2 a couple days ago. And god I suck. Horribly, tremendously, amazingly. I could give the entire product line of hoover a run for their money.

Okay, I'm not that bad. I've got a good understanding of how common strategies work, and I've been warming up with a couple easy victories against AIs in Campaign and AI vs. modes before trying actual multiplayer. But I've got next to no micro, and I'm *slow.* I keep going and paying attention to X and when I come back I've got a thousand minerals I haven't actually put to use. Or I try to organize a retreat in good order and wind up losing everything I threw into the push instead.

Any advice on how I can improve other than "practice practice practice?" P.S. I prefer to play zerg if any advice is faction specific.

1) Start using control groups. Including construction structures on control groups. That allows keeping building going on all the time while you're attacking/controlling.
2) Try to play faster. Sounds obvious, but the only way to get faster is to try to do things faster. You're nowhere near your limits; you can speed up by just deciding to do so. Your mind will come along.
3) Use hotkeys if you aren't already. Clicking is slow. Learn the hotkeys for all your units and abilities. Also learn stuff like attack-move (a + leftclick so units attack any units they encounter while moving), if you have not already.
4) Honestly, there's no way around it: The way to get smoother play and better mechanics is to play a lot. So even though you didn't want it, the "practice practice practice" (and analyse your losses and iron out build orders and overall, work for it) is really what you need. After all, it wouldn't be a rewarding E-sport level game if you could master it by just knowing a few tricks. That is not skill.

[Suedars]

Don't worry about micro much. Macroing well and spending your money is much more important. With the time and attention you spend microing to save two units, you could have built 5 new ones instead by macroing. Once your macro becomes good and you can play faster, then you can start learning to micro.

[Lord Herman]

I just started playing SC2 myself (apart from playing the campaign just after it came out), and I'm learning a lot by watching VODs (replays with commentary). The thread suggested Day 9's show (http://day9tv.blip.tv/). It's an hour-long show every day, with lots of analysis and general educationalness. He mostly seems to focus on specific strategies, though - I think HDstarcraft's channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/HDstarcraft) is better if you just want to see more 'generic' games.

Completing the challenges and some of the achievements help too. The challenges focus on one thing at a time though, so that might not solve your problem with dividing your attention. The achievements that have you make, say, 20 zerglings in the first 255 seconds of the game help you think about your starting build order, which I never really did before.

I'm still very much a beginner, though, so take my advice with a grain of salt. :smalltongue:

[DrizztFan24]

Get a practice partner or at least a reviewing partner for your replays. Wins and losses. More-so the losses. Day[9] has a Newbie Tuesday section that you can watch, and the team liquid forum has quite the archive of episodes. But mostly I would suggest submitting replays to individuals for review. Especially if you can explain your reasoning as you go then people can point out what could have helped, and other goodies. Like this nuke rush replay (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/154731-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis) I just posted. LegoShrimp and I went and watched it together after I posted it to try and see if my build would be vulnerable to early marines and marauders.

[tribble]

The other day I finished the qualifier matches for 2v2, because I am lazy and prefer 3v3.I lost three of the five matches, and now I'm in gold.:smalleek:
Compare this to my qualifier matches for 3v3, where I won every match (I love getting awesome teams) and was put in silver.(I have since been flunked into bronze.)

So now the question is: What do I do? I don't particularly want to be in a league I don't deserve to be in, but neither am I tantalised by the prospect of getting hammered over and over and over until I get dropped into a league I actually can play in.

[Kyeudo]

Any advice on how I can improve other than "practice practice practice?" P.S. I prefer to play zerg if any advice is faction specific.

Expand early. Terran and Toss can get away with having only one base for 10 minutes. Zerg can't do that except against other Zerg.

Don't get supply blocked. It really sucks, as for Zerg it costs you larva.

Get a Queen for at least your first three hatcheries. You need to abuse parallel production capacity to match the quality of Terran and Toss armies.

Scout agressively. If you are against Zerg, you can spread Overlords practically anywhere until they get hydralisks or spiretech. Otherwise, you can still have Overlords watching expansion sites. Check their front to see what army composition they are putting out. If you don't see alot of gas using units, panic.

[Kyeudo]

Just played a ZvP game with only about 20 minutes availible before I had to head for class. Since Toss seem to 4 gate almost by reflex, I decided to have a little suprise waiting for him in the form of more roaches than he brought stalkers. Game got interesting as I basically tried to race the clock in killing my opponent. Take a look if you want. (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/155350-1v1-protoss-zerg-scrap-station)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I just wish the only response to a 4gate wasn't 'lolroaches'. It just seems that building any one unit to the exclusion of all else is kind of... wasteful.

Also, I was surprised at how effective Hydra were against stalkers. Then it occurred to me that, as a light unit, stalkers didn't get their bonus damage against them.

I also wonder how effective it would be for the zerg to either double-expand, or just expand to the third location rather than the natural and create a wall-off there? It would severely nerf the ability to place a proxy pylon there, anyways, but might leave you too exposed.

[Kyeudo]

I just wish the only response to a 4gate wasn't 'lolroaches'. It just seems that building any one unit to the exclusion of all else is kind of... wasteful.


It's not quite "lolroaches". Sticking with roaches too long just gets you attacked by Void Rays or Immortals. Roaches just buy you enough time for the Mutalisks or Hydralisks.



Also, I was surprised at how effective Hydra were against stalkers. Then it occurred to me that, as a light unit, stalkers didn't get their bonus damage against them.


Hydras are the second most traditional counter to Stalkerballs, after Zerglings. :smallconfused: Where have you been since beta? :smallconfused:



I also wonder how effective it would be for the zerg to either double-expand, or just expand to the third location rather than the natural and create a wall-off there? It would severely nerf the ability to place a proxy pylon there, anyways, but might leave you too exposed.

I've taken the gold expansion on Scrap Station as my first expo. It worked amazingly because he wasn't expecting it and couldn't exploit two potential attack paths at once (my roaches streaming down the one side to my expo killed his proxy pylon on that side) and I had so much more money than normal.

[DrizztFan24]

So what do you zeros really hate to see when you have a ton of hydras? Siege tanks? Colossi? Psi storm? Chargelots?

[Newhill]

So what do you zeros really hate to see when you have a ton of hydras? Siege tanks? Colossi? Psi storm? Chargelots?


THE COLOSSUS! :smallfurious:

They just massacre hydras. Not even close. Psi storm can mean trouble, especially if your hydras are off creep, and chargelots can be a problem if they are numerous and you do not have any roaches to act as a buffer.

I do not use hydras i ZvT, but siege tanks are excellent against them. But so are a lot of other things in the terran arsenal, for example blue flame hellions.

[Kyeudo]

So what do you zeros really hate to see when you have a ton of hydras? Siege tanks? Colossi? Psi storm? Chargelots?

Honestly, Psi Storm is the one that puts the most fear into me, because the others have easy responses to get. Colossi go down to a good number of Corrupters. Siege Tanks are owned hardcore by Infestors with Neural Parasite. Chargelots are fended off by a decent Roach wall in front of your Hydras.

But Psi Storm? There's nothing in the Zerg arsenal that is really good at sniping High Templar except maybe Brood Lords. Psi Storm will shred a Hdra ball faster than Colossi and get the Roaches as a bonus. Other than just running away until he's out of mojo, I have never come up with a good response to Psi Storm.


EDIT: Just played my first game today. I feel cheated. Horribly horribly cheated. I play my heart out in Season 1 and can't break out of Platinum, then Season 2 comes, I play one game, lose that game, and get placed in Diamond. What the heck?

[Karoht]

So there I was. Playing Starcraft 2. When suddenly...

Okay, my plan going in was Thors and Vikings, with some Banshee's and Ravens mixed in. And it was going good. Held off rush number 1 from the neighbor on my left, utterly shut down rush number two from neighbor on my right. Swapped all 3 of my Barracks with Tech to my Factories at the exact right time, used all 3 Barracks to build Reactors and swapped them for the Starports. Had a good MMM ball going, had my Vikings all set, had 6 Thors ready to roll and more on the way, I was just starting to produce some Banshee's to enter the mix, had everything all scouted, had enough map control to have my natural + 2 more bases, was just getting production up and running in those bases, and otherwise ready to move out the moment I hit supply cap, the last Thor finished, some Ravens would take me to supply cap, had some Ghost Academies building at the time and...

Disconnected.

Sure, I was up against 5 other players. I don't hold any illusion that I would have won, but I did have some considerable advantages towards my immediate opponents (a Zerg player who never gets Broodlords and a Protoss player who was only going Stalker/Void Ray), and the other opponents were very much distracted.

I had high hopes. Oh well.

[Newhill]

EDIT: Just played my first game today. I feel cheated. Horribly horribly cheated. I play my heart out in Season 1 and can't break out of Platinum, then Season 2 comes, I play one game, lose that game, and get placed in Diamond. What the heck?

The one placement match is meant to weed out inactive players, so could it be that with them out of the way, you suddenly popped high enough to reach diamond? Or just a freak timing. Congratulations anyway.

EDIT: Oh, and since the ladders were locked for a week, your hidden ranking may simply have risen high enough during the past 7 days.

[Kyeudo]

EDIT: Oh, and since the ladders were locked for a week, your hidden ranking may simply have risen high enough during the past 7 days.

Well, that's something I wasn't aware of and makes me feel somewhat better. It just feels really wierd to go up a whole league by losing.

[HalfTangible]

Well, that's something I wasn't aware of and makes me feel somewhat better. It just feels really wierd to go up a whole league by losing.

I was placed in 3v3 silver league by a win in 1v1 :tongue:

[Kyeudo]

I was placed in 3v3 silver league by a win in 1v1 :tongue:

How does that work? :smalleek:

[Silverraptor]

How does that work? :smalleek:

Probably by adding the factors of gravity, the geological compostion of the Southern Lands, a butterfly flapping its tiny wings somewhere, and an alarming deficit of jetpacks. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

[HalfTangible]

Probably by adding the factors of gravity, the geological compostion of the Southern Lands, a butterfly flapping its tiny wings somewhere, and an alarming deficit of jetpacks. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

And my girlfriend's lack of information about my physical capabilities... besides those neccesary to-

... wait a minute, i don't have a girlfriend...

[Legoshrimp]

So just did my placement match, unsurprisingly got into diamond with a win.
I also thought I would try my hand at the latest funday monday, which is as protoss you can only have two gateways at one time.
Here is the replay (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/156726-1v1-protoss-zerg-taldarim-altar-le), what do you think of it? :smallsmile:

[Silverraptor]

So just did my placement match, unsurprisingly got into diamond with a win.
I also thought I would try my hand at the latest funday monday, which is as protoss you can only have two gateways at one time.
Here is the replay (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/156726-1v1-protoss-zerg-taldarim-altar-le), what do you think of it? :smallsmile:

I also did a Funday Monday (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/156740-1v1-terran-protoss-slag-pits).

[Turalisj]

Anyone interested in doing some diplo maps? I've got several bookmarked, but no one ever joins them.

Currently have been doing Desert Strike and Starship Battles.

[Dragon Elite]

This is a total noob question, but how does one transfer minerals/gas to other players in a 2/3/4v2/3/4?

[Recaiden]

This is a total noob question, but how does one transfer minerals/gas to other players in a 2/3/4v2/3/4?

You click on the second button from the top right. Small, green, locked for the first five minutes so one person doesn't do anything crazy with the whole team's economy.

[Aron Times]

Wow, the GitP ladder shrunk a lot! Inactive players don't have a rating, and sc2ranks.com only displays those who have a rating.

We're down to ten active players in the Playground. Come on, people, get back into the game!

http://sc2ranks.com/c/680

[arguskos]

Wow, the GitP ladder shrunk a lot! Inactive players don't have a rating, and sc2ranks.com only displays those who have a rating.

We're down to ten active players in the Playground. Come on, people, get back into the game!

http://sc2ranks.com/c/680
Been crazy busy with life. Plan to hit it up again soonish, since my 2s partner is getting back into the game.

[Dragon Elite]

I'm still in the bronze league, but I would love to join!

...how does one go about joining?