League of Legends X: Armored Armadillo Delivers Ambiguous Affirmative

[Volatar]

League of Legends X:
Armored Armadillo Delivers Ambiguous Affirmative

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Rammus: Can't touch this. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=258919) by Math_Mage
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of elo hell. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=341821) by Math_Mage
Twitch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10267058&postcount=1448), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Faulty's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10304586&postcount=314) by Faulty
Jungle Akali (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498621&postcount=1358) by Djinn

CLASSY VIDEOS FOR CLASSY PEOPLE

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TRAVEL BACK IN TIME: PREVIOUS THREADS

League of Legends IX: New Thread Available! Only 6300 IP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076)
League of Legends VIII: Gali-Os: They're idolicious! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185516)
League of Legends 7: Truly, Truly Outrageous! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182486)
League of Legends 6: Jannaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178334)
League of Legends 5: Tall Grass Used Garen! DEMACIAAA! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173805)
League of Legends 4:CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169616)
League of Legends 3: You only need to click once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164008s)
League of Legends Goes Where It Pleases 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158135)
League Of Legends: We post where we please. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094)

[Volatar]

Feel free to chirp in on any changes you think should be made to the OP.

[Brother Oni]

What happened to the champion quickstart guide that we were developing in the last thread?
Was it going to be linked here, or did the project just fizzle out?

Would a link to the LoLreplay third party program be worthwhile, so that people having issues with their gameplay can record themselves and upload so that we can offer advice?

[Faulty]

The quick start guide more or less fizzled out because I got busy and by the time I got not busy I had other things on my mind. But it's still there, half-completed, in case anyone wants to use it.

[Silverraptor]

You might want to add Dog's and Shades' alphabet to the comic section.

[Volatar]

I don't have enough time to go searching for all this stuff. Please link it when you ask me to put it in :smallredface:

[Silverraptor]

I don't have enough time to go searching for all this stuff. Please link it when you ask me to put it in :smallredface:

Oh sorry. I'm on my cell phone currently and posting links is both difficult and time consuming for me. I believe its on the 3rd or 4th page of the last thread.

[Raistlin1040]

I think we should finish the quickstart guide, and in the spirit of that, I've done a few. I am not a pro in any sense of the word, but these are what I usually use.
SwainSwain
Champion Role: Tanky AP
Solo Priority: Medium
1 v 2 Capability: High
Jungle Capability: Low
Farm Dependency: Medium
Runes:
•Quints:
•Marks:
•Seals:
•Glyphs:
Masteries: 9/0/21
Summoners: Ignite, Ghost, Flash, Clairvoyance
Start: Sapphire Crystal, Doran's Ring
Core: Rod of Ages
Further Item Suggestions: Rylai's Crystal Scepter, Spirit Visage, Rabadon's Deathcap, Zhonya's Hourglass
Skilling Priority: R>E>Q>W*
Notes: Swain has great early game harass and is a great due laner. If you land your W and follow up with an EQ+Ignite combo, you are probably going to get the kill. Partnered with someone like Blitz, Panth, Maokai, or Ryze, you will land that combo all the time. Endgame, you really want blue buff in order to sustain your R in teamfights and still get off your other spells.
VladimirVladimir
Champion Role: Tanky AP, Sustained DPS
Solo Priority: Very High
1 v 2 Capability: Low
Jungle Capability: Low
Farm Dependency: High
Runes:
•Quints:
•Marks:
•Seals:
•Glyphs:
Masteries: 9/0/21
Summoners: Ghost, Flash, Ignite, Teleport, Clairvoyance
Start: Amplifying Tome, Boots 1, Doran's Ring
Core: Spirit Visage, Rylai's Crystal Scepter
Further Item Suggestions: Haunting Guise, Rabadon's Deathcap, Abyssal Scepter, Void Staff
Skilling Priority: R>Q>W>E, R>Q>E>W
Notes: Vladimir doesn't get going until around level 7, so be careful in the beginning and keep your distance except when you're harassing. You can handle the other team's damage output with your healthbar, but you are not a tank. Use your Q to harass and use it as much as possible from the midgame on to heal yourself. Your E stacks do decent damage but really help you heal with your Q if necessary

[Volatar]

Yeah, I should probably contribute to that quickstart guide too. I think I could do a Zilean one with a good amount of confidence.

[Raistlin1040]

I could do Twisted Fate, but I don't remember my AD build for him since it's been a while. I remember my Hybrid build for him though, but AD TF>Hybrid TF.

[Flechair]

I could do Twisted Fate, but I don't remember my AD build for him since it's been a while. I remember my Hybrid build for him though, but AD TF>Hybrid TF.

I've never been that great at TF. But I do enjoy having one on my team. I probably should get good at him just because of his pseudo map control.


I could probably do a quickstart guide for AP Akali, Hybrid Jax, or Tryndamere.

[Mtg_player_zach]

I don't really have a guide, but I have a tip.

Build catalyst.

Win lane.

[Math_Mage]

I don't really have a guide, but I have a tip.

Play Ryze.

Build catalyst.

Win game.

Fix'd :smallbiggrin:

[Raistlin1040]

Okay, that is it. I am quitting this damn game for a bit because I cannot handle the people I find myself forced to play with.

As I have said before, people that critique builds without being asked for their opinion piss me off. I build mostly AD Mundo. Not tank Mundo. I build AP Cho'Gath. No tank Cho'Gath. And yes, I just started playing Poppy but it seems pretty obvious to me that she is an AD character. Not a tank. Don't tell me how to build my characters, and don't rage about how I'm doing. I don't bitch when I see AP Shaco. I grumble to myself and decide to be make sure he's never alone when he can get ganked. If your teammates make decisions you disagree with, help them out by being a better player. Not by raging into chat. And now for some personalized messages.

Jarvan, way to feed like a boss bro. Maybe you don't know the definition of feeding, but going 1/12/3? That's feeding. Being surrounded by 3 characters that all have less than 200 health, while you have full and running away so they can freely kill you with no damage against them? That's stupid. Ulting a character that I already stunned that has no health left? That's wasteful. Yeah, feel free to yell at me for not building tank Poppy, but there is no excuse for you, the tankiest character on the team, not building tanky. And don't say you're not a tank when you are Tanky DPS with an emphasis on tanky.

Fiddles, thank you for ulting the entire team and then running away with the ult still active when they hit you because you were scared. Thank you for jumping in front of them when I was running away and then raging about how I'm a bad tank and you died for me and I did nothing. Protip, if I'm really the tank? I should be dying for you. If I'm running, you'd better follow me, and jumping in front of them when I was already out of danger due to my crazy movespeed after hitting my W? That's dumb.

Jax, you thought you were above all of it yeah? After all, you had only 4 deaths because you're so pro right? Or was it because you ran from every teamfight, DC'd for fifteen minutes, and were afraid to hit the other team? Oh yeah, and the ethnic slurs (about an ethnicity I don't even belong to) and the homophobic garbage (about an orientation that I belong to in part)? SO CLASSY. Really, that made me want to follow you when you decided to run at the entire team after we all died, and I totally would've except I was dead because I ran in with the other guys while you sat back and watched.

Ashe, thank you for being the only one on the team to not be a total ass. Way to go.

I'm not saying I did well. I went like 4/9/5. First normal game as Poppy, still working out her abilities and what to build on her, but god, at least I stay civilized.

[Arbitrarity]

Poppy is not a tank. Anyone who thinks she is should be shot.

She has no tank-relevant abilities. Her passive shouldn't have any effect as a tank, as no effects should deal more than 10% of your health in a single blow as a tank.
Her Q is straight damage. It is not relevant for tanks.
Her W increases her armor a small amount. It's relevance for tankiness is far less than Courage, Tantrum, or any other Tank mitigation skill. Instead, it gives movement speed.
Her E situationally stuns and deals significant damage to a single target. This is not tank-level CC. This is like Fiddlesticks level of CC. It interrupts, moves a bit, and might stun
Her ult is the EXACT OPPOSITE of a tanking skill. It tells the enemy team "IGNORE ME OR WASTE YOUR TIME". Unless they are complete idiots.

Poppy is a AD or AP Anti-carry. Her job is to get into fights, smash their squishy carry into graphite, and run away.

[Flechair]

Poppy is a AD or AP Anti-carry. Her job is to get into fights, smash their squishy carry into graphite, and run away.

And a fed poppy, that does her job well, is terrifying. :smalleek:

[Dogmantra]

Speaking of Poppy I wanna play Team No You're Going To Stand Over There Instead.

Alistar/Blitzcrank/Poppy/Gragas/Urgot

It would be the most hilarious team.

[Astrella]

Her W increases her armor a small amount. It's relevance for tankiness is far less than Courage, Tantrum, or any other Tank mitigation skill. Instead, it gives movement speed.

...I just checked the champion overview...has Poppy's W always had an active?...If so...I'm a fool for not realizing that in a year of playing this game...

Edit: According to League wiki, she has always had it. I feel embarrassed. :smallredface:

[Dienekes]

Okay, that is it. I am quitting this damn game for a bit because I cannot handle the people I find myself forced to play with.

As I have said before, people that critique builds without being asked for their opinion piss me off. I build mostly AD Mundo. Not tank Mundo. I build AP Cho'Gath. No tank Cho'Gath. And yes, I just started playing Poppy but it seems pretty obvious to me that she is an AD character. Not a tank. Don't tell me how to build my characters, and don't rage about how I'm doing. I don't bitch when I see AP Shaco. I grumble to myself and decide to be make sure he's never alone when he can get ganked. If your teammates make decisions you disagree with, help them out by being a better player. Not by raging into chat. And now for some personalized messages.

While I agree with you, people who make unwanted comments on your build are annoying, really annoying, so are those who you think will tank but dont. I've played in three games in a row now where someone takes the much needed tank character, which I think allows me to play what I enjoy, only for them to not tank. This can be rather simply avoided if when someone picks a tanky character for them to just announce they're not going to tank with them before the game starts so the team can plan accordingly. Of course if you have a Jarvan already then yeah I don't see much to worry about, and Poppy's not really a tank to begin with.


I'm not saying I did well. I went like 4/9/5. First normal game as Poppy, still working out her abilities and what to build on her, but god, at least I stay civilized.

Cheers, but thankfully I've been lucky enough to only have met a few buggers in this game and all (except one) was on the other team.

[Silverraptor]

Speaking of Poppy I wanna play Team No You're Going To Stand Over There Instead.

Alistar/Blitzcrank/Poppy/Gragas/Urgot

It would be the most hilarious team.

Yes it would. I want to try this team now.:smallbiggrin:

[Dogmantra]

Yes it would. I want to try this team now.:smallbiggrin:

Just to make it easier to get people interested, I guess Trundle and Anivia would count for the walls.

[Darth Mario]

Okay, that is it. I am quitting this damn game for a bit because I cannot handle the people I find myself forced to play with.

As I have said before, people that critique builds without being asked for their opinion piss me off. I build mostly AD Mundo. Not tank Mundo. I build AP Cho'Gath. No tank Cho'Gath. And yes, I just started playing Poppy but it seems pretty obvious to me that she is an AD character. Not a tank. Don't tell me how to build my characters, and don't rage about how I'm doing. I don't bitch when I see AP Shaco. I grumble to myself and decide to be make sure he's never alone when he can get ganked. If your teammates make decisions you disagree with, help them out by being a better player. Not by raging into chat. And now for some personalized messages.

For the record, those are all perfectly acceptable builds at high level play (although Poppy is more frequently built AP rather than AD to burst down squishies faster, but either works just fine). It gets better. And Poppy is never, ever a tank. As has been pointed out, she is the exact opposite.

That said, I'm curious as to what, exactly, your Mundo and Cho builds are. Even AD/AP versions of these guys should have some survivability in it, which may be what your team was reacting to. In addition, there is a strong expectation upon seeing them on the champion select screen that they will be building at least moderately tanky, which may lead to your team not having sufficient tanking prowess. Above all, be flexible. Hold off that Starks for a Force of Nature if you're having problems getting bursted down as Mundo, or your team is simply lacking in a front-line beefy character. Take a Rylai's on Cho'Gath for AP, Health, and an awesome slow on your autoattacks (thank you, Vorpal Spikes, for being awesome.) Take a Guardian Angel on either, even if the rest of your build is for damage—GA is amazing on characters that are getting focused, particularly Tanky DPS types.

Now, it's likely that all this advice is unnecessary and you really did run into a group of super jerky jerkfaces. If that's the case, you could try queueing with friends.

[Douglas]

Just to make it easier to get people interested, I guess Trundle and Anivia would count for the walls.
Those just block people rather than moving them, though.

Tristana and Singed qualify.

[term1nally s1ck]

I've tried it. It is almost impossible to lose with, though I'd recommend using chars with non-ult movement skills. Singed is a favorite.

Basically, you can suck as much as you want as long as you don't lose inner tower to inhib in one go. Defending an inhib tower is a simple matter of blitz grabbing someone and the rest of the team putting them in the fountain.

For a broken team, try this variant on the tanky DPS team, based on knockup being the most powerful CC in the game:

Chogath, Alistar, Malphite, Xin Zhao, Blitzcrank.

Interesting fact: Knockup duration STACKS. It doesn't overlap, so if you simultaneously drop all those knockups on someone they vanish from sight for about 6-7 seconds, and then suddenly drop from the sky a-la panth.

Interesting fact #2. The knockup glitch is exploitable. It happens every single time you knockup anyone right next to a wall, and the random horizontal movement knocks them towards the wall.

Interesting fact #3. The knockup glitch appear to be multiplicative with knockup duration.

Combining all of the above resulted in a poor garen disappearing from the game for about 30s, and then falling from the sky into the middle of our team and getting promptly knocked back in the air again and dying.

This is both hilariously fun, and remarkably effective, as any stacked CC team is. Even better, if your blitz is good enough to lane solo, ali can roam and chogath can jungle, resulting in the craziest ganking powers ever.

[Eldariel]

Those just block people rather than moving them, though.

Tristana and Singed qualify.

And Janna. You always want Janna.

[Dogmantra]

This is both hilariously fun, and remarkably effective, as any stacked CC team is.

I refuse to believe that there's a better team comp than 1 magic carry, 1 phys carry and 3 off-tanks or tankier with some nice CC.

[Eldariel]

I refuse to believe that there's a better team comp than 1 magic carry, 1 phys carry and 3 off-tanks or tankier with some nice CC.

5 supports. With a Manamune.

[Khaeta]

So I just picked up Eve. I'm fully prepared to feel like a horrible person (and be one), but I think she'll be good practice for both snowball-carrying and roaming (not to mention fun, even if it's kind of a guilty pleasure >.>)

The build I'm planning on using once I transition to normal games is

Amp tome
Sheen
Rylai
Lich Bane
->survivability/lategame AP

I'm lacking in much variety for runes right now, but I'm looking into

Mpen reds
Scaling Mp5 yellows
CDR blues
AP quints

and then 10/0/20 (or so) with ignite and flash.

Thoughts/recommendations? I want to have a pretty good idea of how to build her so I don't feed horribly :smallyuk:

[Octopus Jack]

So I just picked up Eve. I'm fully prepared to feel like a horrible person (and be one), but I think she'll be good practice for both snowball-carrying and roaming (not to mention fun, even if it's kind of a guilty pleasure >.>)

The build I'm planning on using once I transition to normal games is

Amp tome
Sheen
Rylai
Lich Bane
->survivability/lategame AP

I'm lacking in much variety for runes right now, but I'm looking into

Mpen reds
Scaling Mp5 yellows
CDR blues
AP quints

and then 10/0/20 (or so) with ignite and flash.

Thoughts/recommendations? I want to have a pretty good idea of how to build her so I don't feed horribly :smallyuk:


Tank Eve is suprisingly good, initiate by coming out of stealth and watch everyone focus you whilst you heal from your carries killing them.

Though on a more serious note, Lichbane, boots and AP is all you really need for items as with decent AP you can burst down a carry in a few seconds.

[Astrella]

Speaking of Poppy I wanna play Team No You're Going To Stand Over There Instead.

Alistar/Blitzcrank/Poppy/Gragas/Urgot

It would be the most hilarious team.

Ooh, I would love to be in on this.

[term1nally s1ck]

My eve build is:

Jungling:

Boots of mobility
Wriggle's
Sheen/Triforce (upgrade when appropriate)
Spirit Visage
Banshees Veil
Guardian Angel.

Non-jungling:
Boots of mobility
Ghostblade
Sheen
Spirit Visage
Banshees Veil
Guardian Angel.

AD is much a better build than AP, AP eve *is* hard countered by oracles, AD Eve turns into a strange version of Master Yi when they get oracles, and can still kill most people who have oracles if she gets the chance.

Plus, AD eve is a serious pain in teamfights, whereas AP eve is useless unless she gets lucky positioning and can burst down the carry. Having to keep spending money on AP items to be relevant makes you too squishy to be an effective melee range burster.


I refuse to believe that there's a better team comp than 1 magic carry, 1 phys carry and 3 off-tanks or tankier with some nice CC.

Overall, possibly. But a solid push or backdooring comp can beat that unless you have people who can counteract that, and large amount of AoE CC will beat it unless you have a way to control positioning.

[Joran]

While I agree with you, people who make unwanted comments on your build are annoying, really annoying, so are those who you think will tank but dont. I've played in three games in a row now where someone takes the much needed tank character, which I think allows me to play what I enjoy, only for them to not tank. This can be rather simply avoided if when someone picks a tanky character for them to just announce they're not going to tank with them before the game starts so the team can plan accordingly. Of course if you have a Jarvan already then yeah I don't see much to worry about, and Poppy's not really a tank to begin with.


Yup. I've learned to always ask Jungling Udyr's whether or not they're building DPS or tanky. For some reason, in normal queue, despite being the only tanky champion on the team, a lot of them still build DPS and get pasted when they try to initiate.

I always announce if I'm building an off-spec to the normal spec. Usually, this only involves AP Sion, but even he's not really an off-spec.

[Astrella]

I always announce if I'm building an off-spec to the normal spec. Usually, this only involves AP Sion, but even he's not really an off-spec.

Hmmm? I was under the impression that AP Sion's the default these days, and AD / Crit Sion is the outlier.

[term1nally s1ck]

I'm the super outlier, I go tank sion. (ok, so I get a mejais after aegis, but hey...)

[Nargan]

Just bought anivia.
Why?

Faulty's damn awesome avatar :/

[NeoVid]

Speaking of Poppy I wanna play Team No You're Going To Stand Over There Instead.

Alistar/Blitzcrank/Poppy/Gragas/Urgot

It would be the most hilarious team.

My idea for a gimmick team came to mind when I noticed Merc Treads don't reduce silence (or knockup):

Cho'Gath
Malzahar
Kassadin

...And I'm not quite sure who else to put on this team comp.

[Dogmantra]

My idea for a gimmick team came to mind when I noticed Merc Treads don't reduce silence (or knockup):

Cho'Gath
Malzahar
Kassadin

...And I'm not quite sure who else to put on this team comp.

Xin Zhao and Blitzcrank would give it some much needed AD.

[Arbitrarity]

Xin Zhao Garen and Blitzcrank Soraka (http://www.own3d.tv/video/66863/Reginald__AD_Soraka_Carries_High_ELO..._AGAIN_) would give it some much needed AD.
Fixed that for you.

[Dogmantra]

Fixed that for you.

Neither of those guys have knockups.

Also free Kennen week. Time to get super fed off book-rushing Lightning Squirrels.

[Faulty]

Neither of those guys have knockups.

They have silences.


Just bought anivia.
Why?

Faulty's damn awesome avatar :/

If you need advice, ask.

[Dogmantra]

They have silences.
Well so does Blitzcrank.

[Volatar]

When your team has no tank and is facing a team with a slow, a taunt, and two stuns, one of those Annie, you build Merc Treads.

You don't do this:

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5621/meltanfaces.png

It was just too easy. I was 6/0/3 by the end of the laning phase. Late game I could solo three of them and win. At one point Jarven ulted me, catching Eve and Kat in the ult as well.

Tibbers ate all three of them :smallbiggrin:

Oh man, Annie is so much fun.

[Eldariel]

Puh. Toughest 3v3 win I've had in ages; Nidalee (me), Yi, Sion vs. Singed, Rammus, Maokai. Early game ownage is nothing when you actually cannot kill your opponents midgame anymore. Eventually we set up backdoors and split them up to finally kill them but a 15 min win turned into a 40 min game ._.

[Reinboom]

On the HP discussion from last thread and some days ago... >.>

A defense state provides an effective HP against its respective damage equal to: your HP * defense / 100
So, +20 Armor provides +20% effective "physical HP".

There is no point of oblivion where armor stacking becomes worthless against a physical only team. Instead, there only gets to a point where HP becomes better than armor.


Let's take a blank character who has 50 armor, 30 magic resist, and 1500 HP.
Their effective physical HP is (1500 + (1500 * 50%)) = 2250
Their effective magic HP is (1500 + (1500 * 30%)) = 1950

Adding a Chain Vest to this (+45 armor) changes this formula to:
(1500 + (1500 * 95%)) = 2925 physical HP
(1500 + (1500 * 30%)) = 1950 magic HP

Adding a Negatron Cloak instead (+48 MR) changes the formula to:
(1500 + (1500 * 50%)) = 2250 physical HP
(1500 + (1500 * 78%)) = 2670 magic HP

Adding a Giant's Belt instead (+430 health) changes the formula to:
(1930 + (1930 * 50%)) = 2895 physical HP
(1930 + (1930 * 30%)) = 2509 magic HP

You may notice here that the armor/MR choice is both better when dealing with a focused damage type AND cheaper. However, when dealing with a fairly mixed team and if this was to be your only defense item, one could make a strong argument for HP.


Now, compare using a 200 Armor / 150 MR heavy tank who's been stacking. Let's use 2500 HP.

Base:
(2500 + (2500 * 200%)) = 7500 physical HP
(2500 + (2500 * 150%)) = 6250 magic HP

Chain Vest:
(2500 + (2500 * 245%)) = 8625 physical HP
(2500 + (2500 * 150%)) = 6250 magic HP

Negatron Cloak:
(2500 + (2500 * 200%)) = 7500 physical HP
(2500 + (2500 * 198%)) = 7450 magic HP

Giant's Belt:
(2930 + (2930 * 200%)) = 8790 physical HP
(2930 + (2930 * 150%)) = 7325 magic HP

In these cases, one can make a VERY strong argument that HP is better in most cases.
... However, as HP increases then the potential value of HP versus the potential value of armor or magic resistance decreases.

So the argument "which is better" is never tied to a hard value like "150 armor". Instead, it's constantly shifting based on your HP, your armor, your MR, and your enemy team's comp and playstyle.

Hope that helps some people.

[Spartacus]

And people laugh when they learn I play with a calculator next to me... Hey, I like to know how much AP Archangel's is giving me!

[Joran]

And people laugh when they learn I play with a calculator next to me... Hey, I like to know how much AP Archangel's is giving me!

When I was starting out, I had a notepad next to me listing a build order, cost of the items and where they were in the shop.

This game requires quite a bit of knowledge.

[Spartacus]

I hate finding certain items in the shop, like QSS. I always forget what category it's in.

[Inhuman Bot]

New champion approaches: Nocturne, the eternal nightmare. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=565664)

[Astrella]

New champion approaches: Nocturne, the eternal nightmare. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=565664)

Ooh, looks nice.

[Dogmantra]

I hate finding certain items in the shop, like QSS. I always forget what category it's in.

It's in the awesome froody category. :smallcool:

[Nargan]

Need anivia advice :/

First game, still playing, but 5-6-9 currently. :F

[toasty]

And people laugh when they learn I play with a calculator next to me... Hey, I like to know how much AP Archangel's is giving me!

3% of your mana+its base, yes? Can't you do that in your head? :smalltongue:

On a more serious note. Yes, I understand people that have notes about what items to get when, and itemizing correctly, esp. defensive items, is one of those things that get really tricky. Knowing when to build Banshee's Veil and when to build Force of Nature or QSS, or abadoning those items altogether and just grabbing a Sunfire's Cape isn't the easiest thing in the world, I admit.

Of course, I play a lot of tanks; we have some of the most flexible builds in the game, so I SHOULDN'T be complaining.

In other news, I've taken to playing Tristana again and I feel like I'm doing better with her than I have with Ashe. I need to play Ashe and Kog a few more times and see how I do with each of them. However, I do have a question, what are the situations where you want Ashe over Tristana? Kog is pretty much a counter-pick to the Tanky-DPS meta (So if they have WW, Chogath, Taric, I'm picking Kog'Maw), but what about Tristana? She's a LOT of fun and I'd say slightly easier to farm with than Ashe (she also doesn't have mana issues, which means, yes, I do need another Rune page. :smalltongue:).

[Eldariel]

Need anivia advice :/

First game, still playing, but 5-6-9 currently. :F

9/0/21 Masteries. Runes: MPen Red, Mana Reg/5/Lvl Yellow, AP-or-CDR Blue and HP Quints.

Flash/Ghost generally, or Flash/Clarity if you expect a durable laner you want to kill. Blue Crystal + 2 Pots into Catalyst, Boots (I generally use Swiftness except for magic-heavy teams where I get Mercs), Tear of the Goddess, Archangel's Staff, Deathcap, Banshee Veil, your selection of Zhonya's Hourglass/Abyssal Scepter/Rylai's Crystal Scepter (or Guardian Angel, Hextech Gunblade/Will of the Ancients, Frozen Heart or some such in more rare circumstances).

Position yourself distantly in combat, break enemy formations with walls, keep them in Glacial Storm, Flash Frost mass stun, Frostbite on squishies or as harass with Storm. ALWAYS get blue; make it clear to your team you NEED it from level 7 or so.

[Neftren]

We need a bigger mumble server.

[Nargan]

Thanks for the tips ^^

Garen is stealing mah blue buff. :/

[Volatar]

Problem: Mumble server is full. Lots of people are AFK (and not in the AFK channel). No Mumble admins are online.

[Dogmantra]

wow
just wow

Playing a game as Jungle Trundle.

Our Jax stole my blue buff. And XP. Meaning I couldn't take Red. Which means I couldn't gank their mid giving ours a bad time. What the crap.

[Inhuman Bot]

Ooh, looks nice.

In my personal mind, he looks terrible because EVERY TEENAGER and Neckbeard is going to play him. :smalltongue:

[Astrella]

In my personal mind, he looks terrible because EVERY TEENAGER and Neckbeard is going to play him. :smalltongue:

What's a neckbeard?

[Silverraptor]

New champion approaches: Nocturne, the eternal nightmare. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=565664)

I can just bet he's 6300.:smallsigh:

[Silverraptor]

New champion approaches: Nocturne, the eternal nightmare. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=565664)

I can just bet he's 6300.:smallsigh:

[Astrella]

I can just bet he's 6300.:smallsigh:

Well, at least that'll make Djinn (semi-)happy.

[Raveypoos]

I can just bet he's 6300.:smallsigh:

Jarvan was 4800 (finally), so maybe we're lucky this time and the new champ is 4800 or maybe 3150 (like Karma).

But yeah, most likely 6300.

[Qwertystop]

Please be like Mercurial (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/spectre) or Darchrow (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/enigma)...
PLEASE!

(preferably Darchrow, but either one's good)

[Joran]

What's a neckbeard?

What Guinsoo had during the patch preview video.

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=109368&d=1296379082

P.S. He shaved it due to Internet backlash.

[Darth Mario]

I can just bet he's 6300.:smallsigh:

Djinn will be thrilled.

[Silverraptor]

So, apparently my ELO is still idiot level when I solo. Lost 3 games in a row that we could've won easily if people just stopped doing stupid things.:smallsigh:

[Inhuman Bot]

Please be like Mercurial (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/spectre) or Darchrow (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/enigma)...
PLEASE!

(preferably Darchrow, but either one's good)

Enigma was a stupid hero, and I played him all the time.

(Reason being, I felt like he had too much CC in game where CC was vital.)

[toasty]

Enigma was a stupid hero, and I played him all the time.

(Reason being, I felt like he had too much CC in game where CC was vital.)

Correction: Engima IS a stupid hero; he's still a very good and strong hero, even if no one here really plays DotA. :smalltongue:

[Raistlin1040]

For the record, those are all perfectly acceptable builds at high level play (although Poppy is more frequently built AP rather than AD to burst down squishies faster, but either works just fine). It gets better. And Poppy is never, ever a tank. As has been pointed out, she is the exact opposite.

That said, I'm curious as to what, exactly, your Mundo and Cho builds are. Even AD/AP versions of these guys should have some survivability in it, which may be what your team was reacting to. In addition, there is a strong expectation upon seeing them on the champion select screen that they will be building at least moderately tanky, which may lead to your team not having sufficient tanking prowess. Above all, be flexible. Hold off that Starks for a Force of Nature if you're having problems getting bursted down as Mundo, or your team is simply lacking in a front-line beefy character. Take a Rylai's on Cho'Gath for AP, Health, and an awesome slow on your autoattacks (thank you, Vorpal Spikes, for being awesome.) Take a Guardian Angel on either, even if the rest of your build is for damage—GA is amazing on characters that are getting focused, particularly Tanky DPS types.

Now, it's likely that all this advice is unnecessary and you really did run into a group of super jerky jerkfaces. If that's the case, you could try queueing with friends.My Cho'Gath build is Rod of Ages, Rylai's, Deathcap core, and my Mundo build is Ghostblade, Spirit Visage, and Force of Nature core.

[toasty]

My Cho'Gath build is Rod of Ages, Rylai's, Deathcap core, and my Mundo build is Ghostblade, Spirit Visage, and Force of Nature core.

Your builds are acceptable by anyone who is smart, so long as you inform them before the game begins. For instance, even though everyone assumes Sion is AP, if I play Sion i'm going to say he's AP just so someone doesn't pick say, Annie, and call top and get angry when I build AP.

Also: IMO, DPS Mundo with Starks, Spirit Visage+Tanky is a more reasonable build than the standards Warmog's FoN build that I see. :smallsigh: I prefer a tank Cho to a Caster Cho primarily because... I like other casters, but that's a personal preference thing.

[Qwertystop]

Stupid meaning hard to play as, meaning bad, or meaning stupidly good? He/She/It is the only one I ever won with, and that's mostly because of the one ability that makes 3 minions, which attack and then make more minions, which make even more minions, repeat ad infinitum. Because of how Warcraft's engine requires you to select all of them, I often ended up with 2 full 12-mook groups that I had to chain to Darchrow before they started timing out. That ability is the one I really want, not the black hole or the weird glowy thing. The repeated stun is good too though.

[Inhuman Bot]

Correction: Engima IS a stupid hero; he's still a very good and strong hero, even if no one here really plays DotA. :smalltongue:

He's not as bad anymore though.

[Neftren]

Problem: Mumble server is full. Lots of people are AFK (and not in the AFK channel). No Mumble admins are online.

Maybe we need a new Mumble admin?




Also, Irelia is so much fun again, now that not every shmuck on the block is playing her. Bladesurge in and then stun/slow on a hapless Miss Fortune who has only 1 (yes, that's right, one) magic resist, and over 70% of that healthbar vanishes. Poof! Also had a great round as AD Irelia (4/0/6 or something crazy like that).

[toasty]

Stupid meaning hard to play as, meaning bad, or meaning stupidly good? He/She/It is the only one I ever won with, and that's mostly because of the one ability that makes 3 minions, which attack and then make more minions, which make even more minions, repeat ad infinitum. Because of how Warcraft's engine requires you to select all of them, I often ended up with 2 full 12-mook groups that I had to chain to Darchrow before they started timing out. That ability is the one I really want, not the black hole or the weird glowy thing. The repeated stun is good too though.

Repeated stun is amazing for chasing/skirimishes and his ulti is one of the best darn spells in the game. ALso: he's one of the few mages that scale a decently because one of his spells (at least) does percentage damage. Most mages, like, say, Lich, don't scale against tanky heroes because they simply don't do enough damage to realistically 1v1 them. Lich is great, and still does decent damage in a teamfight, but he's not going to win a game like some hard carries do, who will literally 3 hit your tank. And 3 hits in something like 2 seconds, at that.

[Qwertystop]

Well, I hope LoL implements the minion ability at least.

[Flechair]

Also, Irelia is so much fun again, now that not every shmuck on the block is playing her. Bladesurge in and then stun/slow on a hapless Miss Fortune who has only 1 (yes, that's right, one) magic resist, and over 70% of that healthbar vanishes. Poof! Also had a great round as AD Irelia (4/0/6 or something crazy like that).

I think a lot of people underestimate the power of AP Irelia.

I usually get perfect games as Akali or Jax. :smallsmile:

[Inhuman Bot]

Maybe we need a new Mumble admin?




Also, Irelia is so much fun again, now that not every shmuck on the block is playing her. Bladesurge in and then stun/slow on a hapless Miss Fortune who has only 1 (yes, that's right, one) magic resist, and over 70% of that healthbar vanishes. Poof! Also had a great round as AD Irelia (4/0/6 or something crazy like that).

You forgot to mention our Ashe usually hit her with her arrow first. :smalltongue:

[toasty]

Well, I hope LoL implements the minion ability at least.

I can almost assure you they will not. To my knowledge there are 3 "pets" in LoL, all of which are ults and all of which create exactly 1 pet, one of which is somewhat challenging to get (Mordekaiser). The reason they do this is really a good one: LoL shouldn't be about gimicky abilities like Prophet Teleporting around the map, as an equivelent of AD Soraka or Annie summoning pets from the nearby forest and then BDing your tower before teleporting away to the other side of the map; this is just silly.

Edit: they likely won't implement his multi-stun ability either. Again: its against their general design mindset. And while this mindset might certaintly be limiting, it does provide for a simpler, more "clean" game, albeit at the risk of requiring a lot more thought to make heroes that are similar, but still unique. Largely, IMO, this has been a success (see kassadin, Akali, and Poppy, three heroes that doe the same thing, but all play differently).

[Inhuman Bot]

^^

The ones I can think of:

Voidling Call
Summon: Tibbers
Children of the Grave
Jack in the Box
Evolution Turret
Hallucinate
LeBlanc's innate thing I guess

On heroes that play the same:

Also Renekton, Jax, Irelia, Xin and Jarvan, Ashe, Tristana, Sivir, Miss Fortune and Caitlyn, etc..



Well, I hope LoL implements the minion ability at least.

The most minions any person can summon, AFAIK, is 3 from Malz's voidling call, so probably not.

I don't recall the last time there's been a DotA ripoff, anyways.

[Vauron]

LoL's engine can't reallly handle a pet summoner currently, which is a bigger issue than the difficulty of balancing a pet summoner. Imagine trying to control half a dozen mooks with just the alt+mouseclick.

[Brother Oni]

So the argument "which is better" is never tied to a hard value like "150 armor". Instead, it's constantly shifting based on your HP, your armor, your MR, and your enemy team's comp and playstyle.

I fully agree with this assessment. When tanking it's dependent on your enemy's team comp and build more than any other factor.

For example, an opposing team with an Corki, Olaf and Cho'gath would generally recommend stacking health, stacking only HP opens you up to Bloodrazor (I crunched the numbers a while back and I think a fully stacked RoA only lets you survive 2 extra hits against somebody with a bloodrazor).

Stacking only MR/armour makes the various %penetration items (Void Staff and Last Whisper) more effective, without additional HP to pad it out.


As an aside, while I fully agree with your analysis, I'm not a fan of the Effective HP calculations you've used as they can be somewhat misleading since they assume that you will be taking attacks solely of that damage type.
Against characters whose attacks deal multiple damage types (eg Corki, a physical dps with BR, Kayle), you'll find that your HP will melt a lot faster than you expect.


LoL's engine can't reallly handle a pet summoner currently, which is a bigger issue than the difficulty of balancing a pet summoner. Imagine trying to control half a dozen mooks with just the alt+mouseclick.

Well with the correct fluff (zombie master for example), the engine will accurately replicate the situation of having mindless pets. :smalltongue:

[Math_Mage]

In other news, I've taken to playing Tristana again and I feel like I'm doing better with her than I have with Ashe. I need to play Ashe and Kog a few more times and see how I do with each of them. However, I do have a question, what are the situations where you want Ashe over Tristana? Kog is pretty much a counter-pick to the Tanky-DPS meta (So if they have WW, Chogath, Taric, I'm picking Kog'Maw), but what about Tristana? She's a LOT of fun and I'd say slightly easier to farm with than Ashe (she also doesn't have mana issues, which means, yes, I do need another Rune page. :smalltongue:).

Ashe has more CC, AoE, and utility.
Tristana has more DPS, range, and mobility.

So whatever your team lacks, you provide. If your tanks aren't great initiators (Udyr and Alistar, for example), Ashe is a better pick. If your team lacks single-target burst, Tristana is a better pick.

[Heliomance]

SINGED IS SO MUCH FUN.

Had my first real game with him since becoming competent today. Early game went awfully. At one point we were losing one kill to 30-ish. Then I hit my stride and figured out how he played, and our first-time Garen did the same. I died four times in the laning phase. I didn't die again all game. I chased down so many people and threw them back into the team, it was glorious.

Game stretched out for a glorious 68 minutes. With first win of the day and an IP boost, I got 477 IP off that game. Some kind of record?

[Volug]

Game stretched out for a glorious 68 minutes. With first win of the day and an IP boost, I got 477 IP off that game. Some kind of record?

I've gotten almost 600 with 2 IP boosts and a Win of the Day before.

[Gourtox]

Just played a great game as ashe. Went 12/7/21(their sion was great at early game ganks) Also at a moment of hilarity our team went to go baron and our udyr was there before the rest of us. When we got there Udyr was at full health and Baron was about 50%. The rest of the 50% was me and him, but he practically soloed it.

[toasty]

Interesting fact: CLG will not be able to participant in WCG in theri current format. WCG will have a separate team for Canada and the United States. IIRC this means that Elementz and either Chauster or Jiji will have to form a separate team Canada, which sucks.

edit: its the EU teams that really get screwed by this, though.

[Heliomance]

I've gotten almost 600 with 2 IP boosts and a Win of the Day before.

You can stack IP boosts? Huh?

[Neftren]

You forgot to mention our Ashe usually hit her with her arrow first. :smalltongue:

That was only on two or three kills on a few Miss Fortune mids. I think I got her twice like that.

[Volug]

You can stack IP boosts? Huh?

Yes. Per win and timed IP boosts.

I bought a timed with my small left-over RP I had when I got that 10 win IP boost from riot.

Gives you x4 IP on win, regular 2x on loss.

[ZombyWoof]

Uuuuuugh first game of the day.

1/11 singed
1/15 ez

WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN.

[Flechair]

Uuuuuugh first game of the day.

1/11 singed
1/15 ez

WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN.

Because you're playing with random pubs. :smallannoyed:

I played a 3's match just yesterday as Tryndamere. I had like 11 kills, was trying to push, but they'd just gang up on me, and chase me away (Singed, Poppy, and Maokai) I had a Mundo and Annie, and they did nothing but defend. We'd kill Poppy and send Singed B, and they'd want to hide by our inhib turrets. I ended up losing because of it and was really frustrated.

[Math_Mage]

Just played a great game as ashe. Went 12/7/21(their sion was great at early game ganks) Also at a moment of hilarity our team went to go baron and our udyr was there before the rest of us. When we got there Udyr was at full health and Baron was about 50%. The rest of the 50% was me and him, but he practically soloed it.

Wriggles-Triforce Udyr solos Baron all day erryday. He's not as good at it as Shaco/WW/Nasus, though.

[toasty]

Wriggles-Triforce Udyr solos Baron all day erryday. He's not as good at it as Shaco/WW/Nasus, though.

Someday I want to play a Baron-Soloing team combo

Lane Shaco (not so good, but maybe if he did some counter-jungling...), Kog'maw, WW, Janna and then maybe Shen for tank.

Or you could do Amumu, Shaco, Kog'maw, Xin Zhao Janna, Xin Zhao rushing Madreds. you would have, in theory, 3 madreds and Amumu.

[Math_Mage]

Someday I want to play a Baron-Soloing team combo

Lane Shaco (not so good, but maybe if he did some counter-jungling...), Kog'maw, WW, Janna and then maybe Shen for tank.

Or you could do Amumu, Shaco, Kog'maw, Xin Zhao Janna, Xin Zhao rushing Madreds. you would have, in theory, 3 madreds and Amumu.

Lanewick >>> Lane Shaco. :smallwink:

WW (or Xin or Nasus) top, Kog mid, Janna + Shen bot, Shaco jungle? I like that comp. I really like that comp. We should give it a go.

[toasty]

Lanewick >>> Lane Shaco. :smallwink:

WW (or Xin or Nasus) top, Kog mid, Janna + Shen bot, Shaco jungle? I like that comp. I really like that comp. We should give it a go.

I was thinking a more roaming Shaco, attempt to do a crazy gank team with a semi-double jungle, and then everyone rushes Bloodrazors and the team barons at the 15 minute mark.

[Prplcheez]

Impulse bought Sona the other day (which was stupid, because Karma is the same price and I knew I was good at Karma), and results so far have been decent. 1-4 in my first game, had a full team of similar scores and that game was a miserable failure. Second game, went 8-4-24. A gangplank fed me and my lane partner, Blitzcrank, in the beginning of the game. Then (forgive the pun) Blitzcrank and I proceeded to steamroll the game. I ended up with Merc Treads, Soul Shroud, Archangel's, Deathfire Grasp (because they had a Poppy that kept targeting me with her ult), and the pieces for Will of the Ancients. All of my team (sona, twitch, jax, miss fortune, and blitzcrank) ended up fed in the end, the least kills being me with 8.

Only complaint I have about Sona is that she doesn't make much of an impact on teamfights. In 2-3 person ganks, she's a wonderful character and can really influence a fight, but when you're staring down 5 enemies, there's not much you can do besides heal a teammate and occasionally do a little bit of damage.

[Shades of Gray]

Her ult and auras more than make up for it. Especially the former.

[Flechair]

Only complaint I have about Sona is that she doesn't make much of an impact on teamfights.

I fail to see this as true. When I was playing Ezreal in the last 2 weeks, my friend played Sona and kept me alive in a 2v5. We won that fight. I suppose I was fed though. I already had a fully stacked Bloodthirster, a Triforce, a Manamune, and boots. I killed their Xin that rushed me, their shen that taunted me (Sona healing and buffing me the entire time), then Sona stunned their lux and kat, I killed lux, then Kat and AD Teemo ran because the rest of my team was showing up.

[Math_Mage]

Impulse bought Sona the other day (which was stupid, because Karma is the same price and I knew I was good at Karma), and results so far have been decent. 1-4 in my first game, had a full team of similar scores and that game was a miserable failure. Second game, went 8-4-24. A gangplank fed me and my lane partner, Blitzcrank, in the beginning of the game. Then (forgive the pun) Blitzcrank and I proceeded to steamroll the game. I ended up with Merc Treads, Soul Shroud, Archangel's, Deathfire Grasp (because they had a Poppy that kept targeting me with her ult), and the pieces for Will of the Ancients. All of my team (sona, twitch, jax, miss fortune, and blitzcrank) ended up fed in the end, the least kills being me with 8.

Only complaint I have about Sona is that she doesn't make much of an impact on teamfights. In 2-3 person ganks, she's a wonderful character and can really influence a fight, but when you're staring down 5 enemies, there's not much you can do besides heal a teammate and occasionally do a little bit of damage.

Guide to Sona:
QWEQWEQWEQWEQWE
Press R every teamfight
???
Profit

That's her teamfight contribution, right there. And it's no small thing.

[ZombyWoof]

How to Play Sona 101:

First, stick your left cheek on the left side of the keyboard. Then roll face from left to right. Then roll back from right to left. Repeat until enemy team is dead.

[Silverraptor]

Djinn is our Ward Malphite Bitch. That is all. (Had to say that Djinn:smalltongue:)

[Raistlin1040]

Well I decided to give it another go, and I ended up with two great teams, and two good victories as Kennen. Next time I have RP lying around, I'll be picking him up I think. I've been starting with Boots and 3 health pots, going to Rylai's, then Swiftness boots, Sunfire Cape, Zhonya's Hourglass, and Will of the Ancients.

[Flechair]

Well I decided to give it another go, and I ended up with two great teams, and two good victories as Kennen. Next time I have RP lying around, I'll be picking him up I think. I've been starting with Boots and 3 health pots, going to Rylai's, then Swiftness boots, Sunfire Cape, Zhonya's Hourglass, and Will of the Ancients.

surprisingly enough, that's kinda how my friend plays kennen, he always rushes rylai's so survivability and the slows, but then, if he doesn't get fed once he's got all that AP he starts building more tanky instead of pure damage.

[toasty]

surprisingly enough, that's kinda how my friend plays kennen, he always rushes rylai's so survivability and the slows, but then, if he doesn't get fed once he's got all that AP he starts building more tanky instead of pure damage.

More kenne's should be building off-tank IMO. Rylai's --> Deathcap --> Hourglass --> Abyssal (with boots in there somewhere)

[Dogmantra]

More kenne's should be building off-tank IMO. Rylai's --> Deathcap --> Hourglass --> Abyssal (with boots in there somewhere)

You should get Hourglass before Deathcap. Before Rylai's if teamfights start REALLY early (in a perfect game, you lane as long as you can getting fed off your two opponents).

Oh, also Raistlin, you are normally gonna want to get Merc's Treads. With a Rylai's, Kennen is TERRIFYING at escaping. You'll want the lowered CC for actually managing it. Swiftness are wonderful against the teams you don't need Merc's for. I also suggest playing around with Doran's Shield starts. You often need the long term sustain in a solo vs two (and that's Kennen's forte).

Alternatively you can play Health Kennen which we all know is the best.

[Raistlin1040]

Yeah, honestly I buy Swiftness on way too many people >.> And I tried to Shield start and it was fine (I was midding against a Swain), but I like the Boots start since it lets me rush the Rylai's faster.

I've been going prioritizing R>Q>W>E with a point in W at 4th level. Is that good?

[ZombyWoof]

Wow. I dominated the jungle and we lost. Why? Because Xin Zhao did NOT talk at ALL. We spent 5 minutes waiting to find out if he wanted red buff after which I was like "Whatever" and took it. Then we did it again, only this time the enemy team got positioning while XIN ZHAO SAT AROUND DOING NOTHING when I kept asking him to take red buff. So Sion goes in and then Xin Zhao jumps in and we ace them but only myself (nunu) and Alistair are up so we can't even deal all that much damage.

I don't understand. Please help me understand. When your team asks if you want red buff, why would you sit around and say nothing?

[Flechair]

I don't understand. Please help me understand. When your team asks if you want red buff, why would you sit around and say nothing?

You're one of the many people on LoL that don't speak english.

[Croverus]

So can someone tell me about backdooring? apparently it is supposed to be something Yi is really good at. My last game we were totally owning... until our Yi had no idea how to backdoor and wasted time when we dropped the enemy going after buffs. Is backdoorign something just for Yi and speedy people like him, or could I backdoor with, say, urgot?

[Mtg_player_zach]

Just wrecked a ranked game as nasus. All the tanks were banned so I volunteered to build tanky nasus under the condition that I get solo top. So, I laned against gangplank and jarvan. It's always a little rough going until you get a level or two on them. But that's not hard, once you have that you can start killing them. So, I port after a little while after I pushed the lane. I buy chain vest and cloth armor (aegis and sunfire). From that point forward I owned the lane. I could kill them whenever I had the mana to do so. This is typical for nasus. So I carried as a tank (building FULL tank, no sheen-didn't need it). Didn't build a trinity force cause I had all the damage I needed in my SS and ult. We won after a bit.

Weird part is that the previous ranked game I had a problem with poor teammates and organization on my team and we got wrecked, ( I was 3/4/5 udyr, building tanky for the team).

It seems one game I'll have competant teammates and another I'll have teammates who look like they just hit 30 and went straight into ranked knowing next to nothing, is this normal for ranked or will it improve as I rise in elo? (I am unranked, I have 2W 1L)

[Astrella]

They're bringing out a hotfix for minions. Note that the message says Monday, but it's already been moved to Tuesday.


Hey everyone,

Last patch, we changed minions to both try to end games earlier and promote minion pushing earlier in the game. Unfortunately, this has caused us to reward a very unfun general strategy in the process.

We're fixing this in the upcoming patch. While numbers are still being tweaked a bit internally, here's the general idea;

* Move additional cannon minion spawns from 20 minutes to 40-45 minutes. This mechanic should be utilized to force long, drug-out games to end, and 20 minutes is just when the action gets interesting in terms of teamfights and objectives. This is simply too early and we'll be making this happen past the normal average game length, instead.

* Minions are too important mid-game when they clump, due to stat changes. We'll be reverting the additional cannon minion tower resistance, as well as reducing all minion tower damage a bit. Net result of this should be a small increase to minion-to-tower damage, but much smaller than what we see on live. Minions will retain the MR buff to keep AOE'ing them down to be a little harder (since when that's very easy, strong AOE mages can single-handedly prevent tower pushes too effectively).

We do want to make it so games that aren't good, interesting fights resolve more quickly, but the effects of these changes has had other consequences that are not worth the tradeoffs. We're happy to go in and change this immediately, and make them into something that better meets our goals.

We will be hotfixing this on Monday, barring any localized disasters.

[Flechair]

So can someone tell me about backdooring? apparently it is supposed to be something Yi is really good at. My last game we were totally owning... until our Yi had no idea how to backdoor and wasted time when we dropped the enemy going after buffs. Is backdoorign something just for Yi and speedy people like him, or could I backdoor with, say, urgot?

Backdooring is not only viable with Master Yi, he's just good at it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the definition of Backdooring is to take out the tower of the enemy teams without the assistance of minions, usually while the enemy team is trying to push one of your team's towers. The thing is, towers take damage for your AD or 40% of your AP, whichever is more, but most of the time, AD carries have AS increasing skills or items, so they are more efficient at backdooring. That being said, you can back door as anyone, but know that the enemy team will be hunting you down for it, and if you didn't do it extremely quickly you're going to be low on HP thanks to the tower.


They're bringing out a hotfix for minions. Note that the message says Monday, but it's already been moved to Tuesday. Thank god. The more tank minions would come into play, and I would notice that one wave of minions would win, then the next wave would have tank minions with the old minions that won, and they'd just push super hard. In ARAM it'd be like "Oh look, they took my tower- and now my inhib, wtf" :smallannoyed:

[Master_Rahl22]

I'm glad they're nerfing the minions slightly. In close games it's tough to take advantage of a won teamfight unless you aced them with 5 still up cause somebody generally has to break off to stop a clump of minions from killing your tower.

[Neftren]

I'm glad they're nerfing the minions slightly. In close games it's tough to take advantage of a won teamfight unless you aced them with 5 still up cause somebody generally has to break off to stop a clump of minions from killing your tower.

Yeah I've lost a good number of games because of this. Winning a teamfight doesn't really give you an advantage unless you can push lanes, and if it's not a really push oriented team, well...



Also, I'm about 1000 IP away from getting Sona, maybe less, so I'll have a support champ next. The logical question is, "how do I go about supporting"?

[term1nally s1ck]

Stay in the back, put buffs on the nicest person you know, put debuffs on the nastiest person you know, and if you have CC use it on as many scary people as possible.

Sona specifically:

qwewqeqweqweqweqweqweqweqweqweqweqweqwewqeqweqwe

Oh, and when you see a clump of people, Ult them.

[Raistlin1040]

Nerfing minions?

GG guys, quitting the game, minions suck now. Why does Riot have to nerf all the best characters?

[Dogmantra]

Yeah, honestly I buy Swiftness on way too many people >.> And I tried to Shield start and it was fine (I was midding against a Swain), but I like the Boots start since it lets me rush the Rylai's faster.

I've been going prioritizing R>Q>W>E with a point in W at 4th level. Is that good?
I find you need your three marks as soon as possible, so I grab a rank in Lightning Rush at level 3 instead. Also, I find that a few more points in Electrical Surge allow for more reliable harrass, so I alternate between Shuriken and Surge. With standard key bindings I think that's QWEQWRQWQWRQWEEREE


Is backdoorign something just for Yi and speedy people like him, or could I backdoor with, say, urgot?
Urgot's not a particularly good backdoorer, he's not amazing at pushing up minions (for those times where you want 'em) and he can't hurt a tower much when he's tanking it since Acid Hunter doesn't work on towers. There are plenty of other people who are better though.


The thing is, towers take damage for your AD or 40% of your AP, whichever is more, but most of the time, AD carries have AS increasing skills or items, so they are more efficient at backdooring.
Also if you're tanking the tower without your minions nearby it only takes half damage, so you need someone with REALLY high AD, and I think Yi is the champion with the second highest possible AD in the game (highest being Sion with Atma's).

[toasty]

Wow. I dominated the jungle and we lost. Why? Because Xin Zhao did NOT talk at ALL. We spent 5 minutes waiting to find out if he wanted red buff after which I was like "Whatever" and took it. Then we did it again, only this time the enemy team got positioning while XIN ZHAO SAT AROUND DOING NOTHING when I kept asking him to take red buff. So Sion goes in and then Xin Zhao jumps in and we ace them but only myself (nunu) and Alistair are up so we can't even deal all that much damage.

I don't understand. Please help me understand. When your team asks if you want red buff, why would you sit around and say nothing?

If they don't want red take it yourself. Or don't take it at all. You will of course notice, that when I'm Kog'Maw I will make sure I'm getting red all the time, cuz Kog is one of the best canidates for Red in the game. But few AD carries seem to realize what they are missing.


Just wrecked a ranked game as nasus. All the tanks were banned so I volunteered to build tanky nasus under the condition that I get solo top. So, I laned against gangplank and jarvan. It's always a little rough going until you get a level or two on them. But that's not hard, once you have that you can start killing them. So, I port after a little while after I pushed the lane. I buy chain vest and cloth armor (aegis and sunfire). From that point forward I owned the lane. I could kill them whenever I had the mana to do so. This is typical for nasus. So I carried as a tank (building FULL tank, no sheen-didn't need it). Didn't build a trinity force cause I had all the damage I needed in my SS and ult. We won after a bit.

Weird part is that the previous ranked game I had a problem with poor teammates and organization on my team and we got wrecked, ( I was 3/4/5 udyr, building tanky for the team).

It seems one game I'll have competant teammates and another I'll have teammates who look like they just hit 30 and went straight into ranked knowing next to nothing, is this normal for ranked or will it improve as I rise in elo? (I am unranked, I have 2W 1L)

You'll get this early game. Honestly, it took me nearly a year to get from 1200ish to 1400 elo and I don't think I'm going to go down any time soon. However, I was a lot worse when I started ranked last summer...

My suggestion is to attempt to play a role few people do well at and is really necessary; basically junglers/support/tank. Counter-jungling nunu won me 11 games last week, and I've had some great moments with Amumu and Shen.

[Heliomance]

Loving Singed so much. Just bought him, awesome fun.

[Eldariel]

I just played the richest game I've ever seen:
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7326/richestgame.png
Builds, for those who care:
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3176/richbuilds.png


Backdooring is not only viable with Master Yi, he's just good at it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the definition of Backdooring is to take out the tower of the enemy teams without the assistance of minions, usually while the enemy team is trying to push one of your team's towers. The thing is, towers take damage for your AD or 40% of your AP, whichever is more, but most of the time, AD carries have AS increasing skills or items, so they are more efficient at backdooring. That being said, you can back door as anyone, but know that the enemy team will be hunting you down for it, and if you didn't do it extremely quickly you're going to be low on HP thanks to the tower.

The big thing in this equation is Lichbane; gives many mage-types a really efficient anti-tower nuke. Twisted Fate is the king of this. Backdooring generally means just pushing behind the enemy lines; whether you do it with or without minions is another matter entirely but in general, "to backdoor" means "bypass enemy team and go straight for the base".

Champs commonly doing this are Alistar, Rammus, Shaco, Twisted Fate and Master Yi. Alistar generally builds a Sheen or so and uses his ultimate to completely ignore tower damage; Rammus Defensive Ball Curls to mostly ignore the tower and Tremors them down; Shaco has his clone and massive base damage regardless of the chassis; Twisted Fate Gate + TP is virtually untouchable and he thus just sidelane pushes wherever and if minions ever reach a tower, he just destroys it and Destinys out, combined with Zhonya's in AP builds (you can initiate Gate and Zhonya making you untouchable). And Master Yi just combines all his abilities for massive damage + attack speed and clears minion waves with Alpha Strike (or just takes the tower out faster than it takes him out) and moves like a wind and is unslowable with his ult making him hard to stop.

Twisted Fate is prolly the best backdoorer in the game; last WCG team SK singlehandedly destroyed CLG with him until CLG banned TF. The combination of Gate, Teleport, massive tower damage and minion sweeping (red card + wildcard) makes him obscenely hard to contain. Alistar and Rammus are nice since they are very desirable champs for tanking and their ability to walk in and wreck towers without much effort is pure bonus. Rammus more so than Alistar since Alistar needs some damage item to really do it well. But he likes to build one or two anyways due to his naturally obscene bulk so it's not that big a deal. And Shaco is one of the best Jungle Gankers in the game. Since his teamfighting is lackluster, backdooring is actually his primary lategame strat. Master Yi is similar to Shaco, really, but a worse jungler so he kinda comes off in the bottom of the list though certainly viable.

[Reinboom]

As an aside, while I fully agree with your analysis, I'm not a fan of the Effective HP calculations you've used as they can be somewhat misleading since they assume that you will be taking attacks solely of that damage type.
Against characters whose attacks deal multiple damage types (eg Corki, a physical dps with BR, Kayle), you'll find that your HP will melt a lot faster than you expect.

This is why I coupled physical HP + magic HP together in that analysis.
If you are taking the two values and assume only one of the two actually applies then that's your own fault. Not a fault of EHP calculations. :smalltongue:



Stay in the back, put buffs on the nicest person you know, put debuffs on the nastiest person you know, and if you have CC use it on as many scary people as possible.

Sona specifically:

qwewqeqweqweqweqweqweqweqweqweqweqweqwewqeqweqwe

Oh, and when you see a clump of people, Ult them.

Also known as:
How to quickly run out of mana as Sona and become useless during teamfights. :smallbiggrin:


Sona is an easy champ but you still must position yourself so you don't get face-wrecked. You must still position yourself so you can hit efficiently with Q. It's still usually smart to move in and hit with your passive. etc.

[ZombyWoof]

You're one of the many people on LoL that don't speak english.
Then why would you say nothing instead of at least saying "I don't speak english"? And we were pinging red buff constantly.

[Master_Rahl22]

My suggestion is to attempt to play a role few people do well at and is really necessary; basically junglers/support/tank. Counter-jungling nunu won me 11 games last week, and I've had some great moments with Amumu and Shen.

I enjoy playing Nunu and jungling with him, but what exactly is counter-jungling? Is it just roaming through the enemy jungle trying to kill/screw with the other teams jungler? Are there more specific strategies for it? One obvious strategy is to hide at their blue for someone dependent on it and steal it or kill/drive the enemy away. What are some others?

[Dogmantra]

I enjoy playing Nunu and jungling with him, but what exactly is counter-jungling? Is it just roaming through the enemy jungle trying to kill/screw with the other teams jungler? Are there more specific strategies for it? One obvious strategy is to hide at their blue for someone dependent on it and steal it or kill/drive the enemy away. What are some others?

Nunu often starts at their Wraiths, consumes the big one then runs to take Blue.

Otherwise it's just going into their jungle, stealing all but one minion from camps (so they don't respawn), taking their buffs etc.

[Eldariel]

I enjoy playing Nunu and jungling with him, but what exactly is counter-jungling? Is it just roaming through the enemy jungle trying to kill/screw with the other teams jungler? Are there more specific strategies for it? One obvious strategy is to hide at their blue for someone dependent on it and steal it or kill/drive the enemy away. What are some others?

Basically, you can run a dedicated counterjungler like Poppy or Evelynn, who just starts in the opposing jungle, stays hidden, clears camps and tries to catch the opposing jungler for the kill. The big trick is Warding the opposing jungle, especially the buffs. Then you can either have your jungler gank or lanes. Most efficient way to get it done is Teleport; Teleport-ganks in jungle are extremely brutal.

Of course, the counterjungler has to be careful since opposing laners are closer than your allies so if you get caught, you likely die. This makes Evelynn and Shaco particularly efficient due to their stealth and ability to clear the jungle easily. But yeah, basically you roam in their jungle (you can roam the lanes too) and steal their creeps and try to trap the opposing jungler. That's a dedicated counterjungler/roamer. And you can counterjungle with Wards/CV in their jungle to catch the jungler at weak spots (generally buffs) and have your own jungler or TPing laner or so try to gank 'em.

Wraiths are the easiest thing to steal since they're fast to kill and near the river. Golems are harder and buffs of course take time and make you weak early on making 'em risky steals. Wraith steals I actually do quite a bit when I'm midlaning Anivia after I hit 6. Push the lane, steal Wraiths with CV backup, get out; free gold!

[Silverraptor]

Nunu often starts at their Wraiths, consumes the big one then runs to take Blue.

Otherwise it's just going into their jungle, stealing all but one minion from camps (so they don't respawn), taking their buffs etc.

Nunu can start with Doran's shield while jungling and still work, correct?

[Eldariel]

Nunu can start with Doran's shield while jungling and still work, correct?

Fully runed and masteried Nunu doesn't really need items, period, to jungle. You can buy full 6 wards if you feel like that. Indeed, buying a couple of Wards in the start and laying them before 1:30 tends to be very key for efficient counterjungling. The ones that can do that are supergood junglers who don't need items for it (WW, Nunu, Fiddle, Shaco, Udyr), and supports. Cloth + 2 Pots + Ward is a good start.

[Silverraptor]

Fully runed and masteried Nunu doesn't really need items, period, to jungle. You can buy full 6 wards if you feel like that. Indeed, buying a couple of Wards in the start and laying them before 1:30 tends to be very key for efficient counterjungling. The ones that can do that are supergood junglers who don't need items for it (WW, Nunu, Fiddle, Shaco, Udyr), and supports. Cloth + 2 Pots + Ward is a good start.

Really? Because I tried Jungling with a Ruby Crystal or a Saphire Crystal to try to get the catalist faster, and was close to clearing the jungle, but didn't quite make it. (Atleast they were practice games) What Runes/Masteries should I get for that kind of start?

[Thrantar]

So I queued up for a ranked solo queue game. After picking Jarvan, Swain, Irelia, and Xin, my team informed me that they needed a tank...

[Silverraptor]

So I queued up for a ranked solo queue game. After picking Jarvan, Swain, Irelia, and Xin, my team informed me that they needed a tank...

Welcome to League of Legends Ranked Solo Que.:smallsigh:

[Math_Mage]

So I queued up for a ranked solo queue game. After picking Jarvan, Swain, Irelia, and Xin, my team informed me that they needed a tank...

4 tanky deeps + tank? Sounds fine. Any good initiator will stomp with this comp.

[Eldariel]

Really? Because I tried Jungling with a Ruby Crystal or a Saphire Crystal to try to get the catalist faster, and was close to clearing the jungle, but didn't quite make it. (Atleast they were practice games) What Runes/Masteries should I get for that kind of start?

Well, I just used ArPen Red/Armor Yellow/CDR Blue/HP Quints and 1/19 (Dodge not maxed)/10 (Utility Mastery) to do it in 4:30. I had to use two Consumes on bluebuff to be sure; I was getting VERY close calls without it, but microing around to avoid hits and getting two Consumes was the easy way. You could prolly cut ~16 seconds away if you get it clean (or cut Utility Mastery but hell if I ever do that on a jungler).

[toasty]

Welcome to League of Legends Ranked Solo Que.:smallsigh:

Yeah, i know, players are stupid.


I enjoy playing Nunu and jungling with him, but what exactly is counter-jungling? Is it just roaming through the enemy jungle trying to kill/screw with the other teams jungler? Are there more specific strategies for it? One obvious strategy is to hide at their blue for someone dependent on it and steal it or kill/drive the enemy away. What are some others?

Well you could hide at blue, but blue is often protected by 2-3 champions and its risky. A better suggestion is to know the enemy jungle path and screw with him. If he's a slower jungler, grab your blue and wolves then consume his blue wraith, ward his red buff, and start on his golems, waiting for him to show up at Red. March down to red and wait for him to get red low, consume+smite red and then kill him. First blood! You'll only be in trouble if top/mid attack you and even then if you have flash and smart teammates you'll probably escape.

Otherwise, just grabbing golems or blue wraith early game is actually really effective because it pretty much assures the enemy is going to be somewhat messed up.

edit: For the record, my Nunu still needs cloth armor and a health pot to take golem at level 1. I do not have Armor Pen Quints though, as theoddone suggests you take.

[Thrantar]

4 tanky deeps + tank? Sounds fine. Any good initiator will stomp with this comp.

Personally, I would of thought support, an AP carry, or a ranged AD carry would all be better.

[Volatar]

I really often end up playing Galio (my only tank, but man is he fun) when I Solo Queue. Honestly you can still have a lot of fun as the tank. If your team has a tank and the other team does not you will usually win that game by definition (this is discounting leavers and feeders, which are dice rolls every time you play with pubbies)

Heck, I end up playing Galio in premades a lot of the time. Right now I feel like he is my best champion. I feel like I contribute a lot to any team when I am him, even to the point of carrying teams sometimes. When your 20 stack Mejai's Vlad only barely edges out Galio for most damage dealt on the team you can feel good at your Galio playing :smallsmile:

[Eldariel]

Well you could hide at blue, but blue is often protected by 2-3 champions and its risky.

Depends on the jungler. Some start at golems, some at blue, some at red and most have multiple options. Clairvoyance is the key to determine where, though if you lack that you can use stealth champs or just hope. Don't forget: Ward buffs, stay in the general vicinity, go killl.


On a completely unrelated note, I just tested: You can't sell and rebuy Guardian Angel to refresh it. To combat that tho, you can buy Guardian Angel, sell it when it's on CD (the status keeps counting down even without GA in your inventory) and have a backup defense item like Banshee Veil in that slot for the duration instead. When you're filthy rich, at any rate.

[Volatar]

On a completely unrelated note, I just tested: You can't sell and rebuy Guardian Angel to refresh it. To combat that tho, you can buy Guardian Angel, sell it when it's on CD (the status keeps counting down even without GA in your inventory) and have a backup defense item like Banshee Veil in that slot for the duration instead. When you're filthy rich, at any rate.

When you have enough money to keep all 4 potion buffs on you at all times AND do this, then you have too much money :smalltongue:

[Flechair]

When you have enough money to keep all 4 potion buffs on you at all times AND do this, then you have too much money :smalltongue:

Galio can do it, he's the minion murderer. When I played Galio for the first time, I got a full build out and had 5000 more gold by the end of the game.

[Dogmantra]

Galio can do it, he's the minion murderer. When I played Galio for the first time, I got a full build out and had 5000 more gold by the end of the game.

Also if you get a solo lane you are the undisputed king of farming (champions). :smallwink:

[Eldariel]

When you have enough money to keep all 4 potion buffs on you at all times AND do this, then you have too much money :smalltongue:

First time in my life was that last game I pasted here. 5k and nothing to do with it after quad potting.

[Prplcheez]

On the subject of Kennen builds:

I'd like to think I was one of the first to build tanky Kennen. I bought him the day he came out and my build was Regrowth Pendant --> Warmog's --> Boots of Swiftness --> Rylai's --> Never die. Ended most games with 3500 health and around 400 AP.

In most of my games people would call me a noob for getting Warmog's on Kennen, but would then praise me at the end of the game for being amazing.

[toasty]

On the subject of Kennen builds:

I'd like to think I was one of the first to build tanky Kennen. I bought him the day he came out and my build was Regrowth Pendant --> Warmog's --> Boots of Swiftness --> Rylai's --> Never die. Ended most games with 3500 health and around 400 AP.

Hmm... I suppose you could do it that way.

My prefered method would be Regrowth Pendant --> Hourglass --> Rylais --> Death Cap -- Abyssal

Warmog's is a really bad item.

Also: I bought the Woad Ashe skin, me likes. And I've decided my Ashe, Trist and Kog are good enough for ranked as a back up, I'm not a GOOD carry player, but I do okay. I also have Sion and Annie for mages and I own Kass so I swap with people. Next hero I need to buy is Malphite. But before that I need more runes/a new runesheet.

[Brother Oni]

If you are taking the two values and assume only one of the two actually applies then that's your own fault. Not a fault of EHP calculations. :smalltongue:

I think it's personal preference - I just don't like EHP calculations and prefer it presented as flat health with %mitigation for each damage type.

It's probably due to me being a long time EVE Online player, where almost every attack deals multiple damage types, rendering EHP calculations of limited value.


Then why would you say nothing instead of at least saying "I don't speak english"? And we were pinging red buff constantly.

How would you type "I don't speak Chinese" in Chinese? Or "I don't speak Russian" without a Cyrillic font installed?

On the EU server especially, I get a lot of people pinging things then expecting me to take appropriate action, when I don't know whether they're pinging to go there, be careful of an enemy ambush, gank this character, help me take this buff, you take this buff, etc.

I recognise that playing a game where you don't at least understand some of the language is a poor decision, but assuming everybody has some English fluency is unfair, to say the least.

[Douglas]

I recognise that playing a game where you don't at least understand some of the language is a poor decision, but assuming everybody has some English fluency is unfair, to say the least.
Expecting someone to learn a whole language just to play a game is unfair, but I think it is reasonable that people should at least look up the phrase "I don't speak <language>" in the appropriate language before entering an area where that language is known to be dominant. You don't need to be fluent to know a few phrases, and that one is one of the most basic essential phrases for anyone completely out of their depth in a language environment.

[Volatar]

Galio can do it, he's the minion murderer. When I played Galio for the first time, I got a full build out and had 5000 more gold by the end of the game.

Galio is just awesome like that. I really love him. He is both a main tank and an AP carry at the same time. I had ~220 resists last game, and had a spare slot to buy something, so I bought a deathcap. It doubled my AP to ~550. So much awesome. I wasn't even using pots, so I could have had more.


How would you type "I don't speak Chinese" in Chinese? Or "I don't speak Russian" without a Cyrillic font installed?


Even Chinese and Russian localized copies of Windows come with normal fonts installed. They are pretty much required to use the internet and half the programs out there. Lack of fonts is not a legitimate excuse.

[Brother Oni]

You don't need to be fluent to know a few phrases, and that one is one of the most basic essential phrases for anyone completely out of their depth in a language environment.

In a normal everyday situation, I agree with you. However this is the internet on a free to play game. Normal common sense rules do not apply. :smallbiggrin:



Even Chinese and Russian localized copies of Windows come with normal fonts installed. They are pretty much required to use the internet and half the programs out there. Lack of fonts is not a legitimate excuse.

You're missing the point. How would you say "I don't speak language X" when you don't speak language X?

For example, would you know that "wo bu hui shuo pu tong hua" is "I don't speak Mandarin" in pinyin romanisation?

Expecting a non English speaker to know "I don't speak English" is what I'm highlighting.

[toasty]

IMO, if you are playing League of Legends on the NA servers I'm going to assume you speak English. I know there are Asians, South Americans, and Europeans that play on these servers and I have no problem with them playing on these servers. In fact, I encourage them to play where they want to, especially people in South America and Asia that do not have servers (India being a glaring example; the SEA servers do not allow for Bangladesh or Indian IPs to play on them. :smallsigh:).

However, if you don't have ANY english, then ... yeah, I'm gonna feel a bit annoyed. It doesn't take a lot of English to understand "Group up" "push" "don't go alone" "need 2 farm." Obviously I'm going to talk in English in length in the teamchat about what I think we need to do, but there are key terms in LoL that everyone should know. ESPECIALLY on the NA servers.

Servers in SEA or EU, that's a different story. But I dont play on those servers.

[Raveypoos]

Shaco is really fun, and I'm very glad I bought him.
I can jungle with him, I just really don't feel ready enough D:

[Brother Oni]

However, if you don't have ANY english, then ... yeah, I'm gonna feel a bit annoyed. It doesn't take a lot of English to understand "Group up" "push" "don't go alone" "need 2 farm." Obviously I'm going to talk in English in length in the teamchat about what I think we need to do, but there are key terms in LoL that everyone should know. ESPECIALLY on the NA servers.


This I agree with, since it's a lot simpler and more 'internet speak', which is far more universal, especially at the age group that would play LoL.

The only other option I can think of, is that they've done what I do if I'm having a really bad game with pubbies (they're feeding and flaming everybody on your own side, you know, THOSE sort of games) - /mute all, then do whatever I feel like.

[Spartacus]

If you speak French, Spanish or English, come on down to NA servers. If you do not, please take a course first.

[Math_Mage]

Personally, I would of thought support, an AP carry, or a ranged AD carry would all be better.

All suboptimal options, IMO. The major utility a tank brings to the table is that the team can initiate a 5v5, focus someone down with chain CC, and make a quick 5v4 more easily than any other team comp. If you don't have the initiator, the other team will have the luxury of superior poking and positioning, every teamfight, and they'll destroy you. It's true I'd prefer that this kind of team have a Janna on it--then you can jump on someone, focus him down, reset the teamfight, and repeat at leisure--but Janna doesn't boost the "jump on someone" step that's so crucial to this strategy, so is second priority to the tank. Maybe Taric--but as a support tank he fits both our suggestions. The carries are not my preferred choice, as you already have a ton of burst and sustained damage in this comp--the problem is bringing that damage to bear on a tower or protected squishy. Tanks do that best.

[Volatar]

So I now own 11 champions. I have one for every role except pure assassin (which doesn't look to be my thing anyways), but I need more in each role to flesh out my options.

I own Annie, Ashe, Mundo, Galio, Garen, Lux, Nasus, Nunu, Tristana, Xin, Zilean

Physical Carry - Tristana, Ashe
Mage Carry - Lux
Tanky-Physical-DPS - Mundo, Garen, Nasus, Xin
Tanky-Mage: None (hoping to see Vlad free again sometime soon to give him a try for this role)
Support - Annie, Zilean
Tank - Galio
Jungle - Nunu

These are not necessarily their assigned roles, but this is how I play the champions.

It looks like I need another AP Carry, another Tank, and another jungler to start with.

These champ purchases will likely be a bit delayed as I need to spend some ip on runes first, and I will play any recommendations on their next free weeks before buying them.

First one I tried out was Kennen as he is free this week. Played him in a botgame. Wheeeeeeee lightning squirrel. He was fun :smallbiggrin:

[Dogmantra]

All this talk of Kennen and it being Kennen free week made me wanna write a guide for Kennen like I've been meaning to.

So for an extremely highbrow, very intellectually challenging read, open the following spoiler and you will become enlightened in the ways of the Lightning Squirrel.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide1.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide2.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/Kennenguide3.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide4.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide5.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide6.png
Right so there actually is some good advice there. I think.

[Arbitrarity]

Physical Carry - Tristana, Ashe
Mage Carry - Lux
Tanky-Physical-DPS - Mundo, Garen, Nasus, Xin
Tanky-Mage: None (hoping to see Vlad free again sometime soon to give him a try for this role)
Support - Annie, Zilean
Tank - Galio
Jungle - Nunu

It looks like I need another AP Carry, another Tank, and another jungler to start with.

I can't help but re-recommend Amumu. Rammus, Shen, and Malphite are also all viable jungling tanks (and normal tanks). If you want a dedicated jungler, Udyr, Shaco, or Warwick are all good bets. Ryze, Sion and Cho'gath are all quite viable tanky mages, and Ryze and Sion can pseudo-carry. Vlad is of course inherently a tanky mage-carry, and Kassadin/Akali are solid mage-carry assassins.

[ZombyWoof]

14-1-3 as Annie in ranked. I love this champ so much...

Laning vs vlad I went 3/1 mostly because I didn't realize the way the new pool mechanic worked. Apparently if you pool, it cancels out Annie's spell, removes CD, returns mana, and resets pyromania stax. Once I figured that out the lane became REALLY funny because he'd use W as a free 20% nuke, then come back and I'd Q-W him and see him at below half health. Then he freaked out and ran, over and over.

EDIT: Learn Cho or Shen (hopefully both) as your tanks because Galio's pretty nerfed.

[Dogmantra]

EDIT: Learn Cho or Shen (hopefully both) as your tanks because Galio's pretty nerfed.

I'd say Galio is still probably a better main tank than Cho'Gath though. His ult still wins teamfights. Just not as hard as he used to.

[Master_Rahl22]

All this talk of Kennen and it being Kennen free week made me wanna write a guide for Kennen like I've been meaning to.

So for an extremely highbrow, very intellectually challenging read, open the following spoiler and you will become enlightened in the ways of the Lightning Squirrel.
Kennen Awesomeness
Right so there actually is some good advice there. I think.

Steps 4, 5, and 6 didn't load for me, but I totally want to save these and learn Kennen now. :smallbiggrin:

[efdf]

I enjoy playing Nunu and jungling with him, but what exactly is counter-jungling? Is it just roaming through the enemy jungle trying to kill/screw with the other teams jungler? Are there more specific strategies for it? One obvious strategy is to hide at their blue for someone dependent on it and steal it or kill/drive the enemy away. What are some others?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmc4xsPIcf0
is a good guide



All suboptimal options, IMO. The major utility a tank brings to the table is that the team can initiate a 5v5, focus someone down with chain CC, and make a quick 5v4 more easily than any other team comp. If you don't have the initiator, the other team will have the luxury of superior poking and positioning, every teamfight, and they'll destroy you. It's true I'd prefer that this kind of team have a Janna on it--then you can jump on someone, focus him down, reset the teamfight, and repeat at leisure--but Janna doesn't boost the "jump on someone" step that's so crucial to this strategy, so is second priority to the tank. Maybe Taric--but as a support tank he fits both our suggestions. The carries are not my preferred choice, as you already have a ton of burst and sustained damage in this comp--the problem is bringing that damage to bear on a tower or protected squishy. Tanks do that best.

Please do not advocate a 5 tank/tanky DPS team. It's probably one of the worst ideas in the game that people still cling to and a good way to lose horribly.

[Math_Mage]

So I now own 11 champions. I have one for every role except pure assassin (which doesn't look to be my thing anyways), but I need more in each role to flesh out my options.

I own Annie, Ashe, Mundo, Galio, Garen, Lux, Nasus, Nunu, Tristana, Xin, Zilean

Physical Carry - Tristana, Ashe
Mage Carry - Lux
Tanky-Physical-DPS - Mundo, Garen, Nasus, Xin
Tanky-Mage: None (hoping to see Vlad free again sometime soon to give him a try for this role)
Support - Annie, Zilean
Tank - Galio
Jungle - Nunu

These are not necessarily their assigned roles, but this is how I play the champions.

It looks like I need another AP Carry, another Tank, and another jungler to start with.

These champ purchases will likely be a bit delayed as I need to spend some ip on runes first, and I will play any recommendations on their next free weeks before buying them.

First one I tried out was Kennen as he is free this week. Played him in a botgame. Wheeeeeeee lightning squirrel. He was fun :smallbiggrin:

Ryze and Sion are cheap, fun tanky mages (Sion has more of the tank, Ryze has more of the mage).

For tanks, make a dartboard of the usual four (Rammus/Shen/Mumu/Malphite) and throw. Add Alistar if you're up to the challenge.

Junglers...well, see above. Add WW/Udyr/Shaco/Trundle.

Side note: Sivir's a good and cheap third ranged carry. TF is a good and cheap global ranged carry who can double as an AP carry on demand. (And jungler, apparently. :smallwink:)


All this talk of Kennen and it being Kennen free week made me wanna write a guide for Kennen like I've been meaning to.

So for an extremely highbrow, very intellectually challenging read, open the following spoiler and you will become enlightened in the ways of the Lightning Squirrel.
<snip>
Right so there actually is some good advice there. I think.

Ow. Split sides. Dog you too funny.



Please do not advocate a 5 tank/tanky DPS team. It's probably one of the worst ideas in the game that people still cling to and a good way to lose horribly.

All right, then what would you 5th-pick in that situation? It's not like I can wave a wand and make his team not 90% of the way to a tanky DPS comp. Of course it's better to get the balanced comp, but you work with what you get, and I don't see a superior alternative to playing the tank. If you don't get the Malphite-equivalent, your team is stuck with subpar jungling and subpar initiation.

[Volatar]

Thanks for the recommendations. I will check out those champs when they come up in the free rotation.


Galio's pretty nerfed.

He is still quite awesome. Also: Riot said they will be buffing the radius of his ult soon.

[Dogmantra]

For tanks, make a dartboard of the usual four (Rammus/Shen/Mumu/Malphite) and throw. Add Alistar if you're up to the challenge.

I wouldn't add Alistar to the dartboard since I find he tends to struggle at tanking in more sustained damage team comps rather than the bursty ones, which incidentally, are the same comps that Galio has a bit of trouble tanking in (though Galio doesn't have too much of a problem, it's still noticable), so I'd go for a more sustained tank. I'd say Shen.


He is still quite awesome. Also: Riot said they will be buffing the radius of his ult soon.
That's... a completely wonderful idea for a buff to Galio. Nice.

[Astrella]

All this talk of Kennen and it being Kennen free week made me wanna write a guide for Kennen like I've been meaning to.

So for an extremely highbrow, very intellectually challenging read, open the following spoiler and you will become enlightened in the ways of the Lightning Squirrel.
----
Right so there actually is some good advice there. I think.[/spoiler]

...

I don't care what Faulty and you have going on, marry me!

Edit: On slightly less serious matter; does anyone know if the minion hotfix got through already?

[Volatar]

That's... a completely wonderful idea for a buff to Galio. Nice.

Yeah, it is. Its not happening this patch because they need an artist to change the animation before they can do it, but it is going to happen. Makes me really happy. All too often I just barely miss someone with the ult.

[efdf]

All right, then what would you 5th-pick in that situation? It's not like I can wave a wand and make his team not 90% of the way to a tanky DPS comp. Of course it's better to get the balanced comp, but you work with what you get, and I don't see a superior alternative to playing the tank. If you don't get the Malphite-equivalent, your team is stuck with subpar jungling and subpar initiation.

Ashe. Jarvan, Swain, Irelia, Xin is a low damage, way too melee heavy comp very vulnerable to being kited and is really bad at pushing towers. Adding on a tank will do very little to rectify their problem of being unable to kill anyone.

+ her arrow is best initiation ability in the game

[Darwin]

It's a common ragepost, nothing special about it, don't read it if you don't care. In fact, don't read it at all. I just need to vent.

Last night's rating: 1495
Tonight's rating: 1419

I am NOT amused :smallfurious: Every, single, game has been ridden with whiners and leavers all blaming me or themselves for their defeat. You can have Elealar as my witness that nothing I did in those games caused us to lose, or even gain major disadvantages. I don't get how I can fill out my part to 100% satisfaction and still lose the majority of games like that. I have taken such a drastic drop in rating that I'm seriously considering quitting the game, because the sheer effort of climbing back up seems insurmountable (no, I don't know what it really means, It's just a big word for an angry post).

¤%&# League of Legends and #¤%& it's lame*** players :smallannoyed:

Hugz, anyone? :smallfrown:

[toasty]

Ashe. Jarvan, Swain, Irelia, Xin is a low damage, way too melee heavy comp very vulnerable to being kited and is really bad at pushing towers. Adding on a tank will do very little to rectify their problem of being unable to kill anyone.

+ her arrow is best initiation ability in the game

This actually seems really reasonable. Jarvan+Ashe+Xin is good initation. Irelia jungles, Ashe and Swain solo (or have Ashe go bot with Xin). It... could work.

[Joran]

I don't get how I can fill out my part to 100% satisfaction and still lose the majority of games like that.

/hugz

I find as a mostly tank player that my success or failure is due in large part to my teammates. I've seen one single fed carry or assassin rip through a team before, just by sheer bad assitude. I've rarely seen a team carried by a tank.

So I can be a boss tank, soak up all the damage, appropriately initiate, protect my carries and still lose because my teammates don't focus fire or don't do enough damage quickly enough.

/shrug, team game is frustrating sometime, especially when you're playing with people you don't know. As Elementz once said something to the effect that "Solo queue is for practice, 5v5 is where the real game is."

[lord_khaine]

All this talk of Kennen and it being Kennen free week made me wanna write a guide for Kennen like I've been meaning to.

Hilarious :smallbiggrin:

[toasty]

It's a common ragepost, nothing special about it, don't read it if you don't care. In fact, don't read it at all. I just need to vent.

Last night's rating: 1495
Tonight's rating: 1419

I am NOT amused :smallfurious: Every, single, game has been ridden with whiners and leavers all blaming me or themselves for their defeat. You can have Elealar as my witness that nothing I did in those games caused us to lose, or even gain major disadvantages. I don't get how I can fill out my part to 100% satisfaction and still lose the majority of games like that. I have taken such a drastic drop in rating that I'm seriously considering quitting the game, because the sheer effort of climbing back up seems insurmountable (no, I don't know what it really means, It's just a big word for an angry post).

¤%&# League of Legends and #¤%& it's lame*** players :smallannoyed:

Hugz, anyone? :smallfrown:

One of my friends says she actually has just plain given up on the game because she is sick of this happening to her.

I'm more resilient. Plus, I just got to 1400 elo. :smalltongue:

[Astrella]

Eh, it's basically the risk you take when you solo-queue, no point complaining about it. I only play when we have at least a group of 4; off course, this means I'll be playing less but at least I'll be having fun.

[Joran]

Eh, it's basically the risk you take when you solo-queue, no point complaining about it. I only play when we have at least a group of 4; off course, this means I'll be playing less but at least I'll be having fun.

Well, the other problem is that my group of friends tends to consist of:
tank player, off-tank player, support player, mage player, support player. We have no true carry specialists on our team. I guess we're just your usual geeks; very passive, very quiet people.

[Silverraptor]

All this talk of Kennen and it being Kennen free week made me wanna write a guide for Kennen like I've been meaning to.

So for an extremely highbrow, very intellectually challenging read, open the following spoiler and you will become enlightened in the ways of the Lightning Squirrel.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide1.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide2.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/Kennenguide3.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide4.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide5.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide6.png
Right so there actually is some good advice there. I think.

Curse you Dog and your Intellectually superior British writing skills.:smalltongue: Though one question, do I start with boots, or do I get a Doran's shield first?

[Prplcheez]

Warmog's is a really bad item.

The math agrees with you. The noobs who don't know how to kill a 3500 HP Kennen don't.

:smallbiggrin:

[Dogmantra]

Curse you Dog and your Intellectually superior British writing skills.:smalltongue: Though one question, do I start with boots, or do I get a Doran's shield first?

I say Doran's Shield, but I've seen other people do Boots and Potions and do well. Before the Doran's changes I would have said Shield is Just Better but now they both have their virtues. I'd say you definitely want Doran's if you're 1v2ing though.

[Eldariel]

It's a common ragepost, nothing special about it, don't read it if you don't care. In fact, don't read it at all. I just need to vent.

Last night's rating: 1495
Tonight's rating: 1419

I am NOT amused :smallfurious: Every, single, game has been ridden with whiners and leavers all blaming me or themselves for their defeat. You can have Elealar as my witness that nothing I did in those games caused us to lose, or even gain major disadvantages. I don't get how I can fill out my part to 100% satisfaction and still lose the majority of games like that. I have taken such a drastic drop in rating that I'm seriously considering quitting the game, because the sheer effort of climbing back up seems insurmountable (no, I don't know what it really means, It's just a big word for an angry post).

¤%&# League of Legends and #¤%& it's lame*** players :smallannoyed:

Hugz, anyone? :smallfrown:

And then we finally got a good team composition (what did it require? Me playing the jungle as 1st pick, of course) and win with stellar colors, making the enemy team groan our mass CC. Rammus/Shen FTW :smallbiggrin:

[Joran]

Another tease from Guinsoo:

"Alistar playtested very well today again. I think he's ready for Mar 29. Waiting for tech for Angry run animation :)"

So... New Passive?

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Could I get some thought experiments/brainstorming/what-have-you on jungling with Yi? How low he runs, good starts, skilling, that sort of thing.

I've tried cloth+pots start, I've tried Doran's Ring start, I've tried longsword+pot start, at wolves, minigolems.

I have no trouble with him on 3v3. 5v5 jungle seems tougher, so I'd like to shape that game up a little.

[Eldariel]

Could I get some thought experiments/brainstorming/what-have-you on jungling with Yi? How low he runs, good starts, skilling, that sort of thing.

I've tried cloth+pots start, I've tried Doran's Ring start, I've tried longsword+pot start, at wolves, minigolems.

I have no trouble with him on 3v3. 5v5 jungle seems tougher, so I'd like to shape that game up a little.

I brought you something. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIevaEr6GMc) It is worth noting that he has many viable jungle paths tho and much depends on AS procs. Starting at Small Golems and doing Blue Wraith with the 7th hit tends to be rather workable.

[term1nally s1ck]

Against low-mid elo players, warmogs makes you tanky. If they see a guy with 3500 HP, they ignore him and go for the guys with less HP.

If, like Kennen, your CC and a fairly large amount of your damage don't need AP to happen, ignoring him is a good way to die completely.

[Qwertystop]

Is this viable? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdZ62QRDCq8) If so, is anyone interested in doing it with me? I'm trying to get enough IP for Aniva, and so far my method has been "play only when the First Win of the Day bonus is acheivable so as not to get too much XP and be high-level when I first try her out".

[Maeglin_Dubh]

I brought you something. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIevaEr6GMc) It is worth noting that he has many viable jungle paths tho and much depends on AS procs. Starting at Small Golems and doing Blue Wraith with the 7th hit tends to be rather workable.

So a lot of it is getting lucky with Alpha Strike?
Also, I usually go 1/16/13, but that video advocates 16/0/14. I should probably experiment with that, I'm just so attached to not having less HP than a soggy piece of toilet paper for the first 20 minutes of the game.

EDIT: He also says in the comments that AS quints are necessary. Welp, out of luck there.

[Eldariel]

So a lot of it is getting lucky with Alpha Strike?

No, that's not it; getting lucky with Alpha Strike is something that can speed up your jungle when you get lucky but with perfectly average play, you can still get it done.


EDIT: He also says in the comments that AS quints are necessary. Welp, out of luck there.

For that jungle build; that's apparently the fastest you can do. As I said, you can just start that the small golems and be just fine.


Don't forget that you can just do early red and gank on level 2; Master Yi is very good at that.

[ShortOne]

All this talk of Kennen and it being Kennen free week made me wanna write a guide for Kennen like I've been meaning to.

So for an extremely highbrow, very intellectually challenging read, open the following spoiler and you will become enlightened in the ways of the Lightning Squirrel.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide1.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide2.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/Kennenguide3.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide4.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide5.png
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/kennenguide6.png
Right so there actually is some good advice there. I think.

Oh, Dog. You so brilliant.


So I'm thinking of trying Miss Fortune. Do any of you have any build ideas?

[Volatar]

It's a common ragepost, nothing special about it, don't read it if you don't care. In fact, don't read it at all. I just need to vent.

Last night's rating: 1495
Tonight's rating: 1419

I am NOT amused :smallfurious: Every, single, game has been ridden with whiners and leavers all blaming me or themselves for their defeat. You can have Elealar as my witness that nothing I did in those games caused us to lose, or even gain major disadvantages. I don't get how I can fill out my part to 100% satisfaction and still lose the majority of games like that. I have taken such a drastic drop in rating that I'm seriously considering quitting the game, because the sheer effort of climbing back up seems insurmountable (no, I don't know what it really means, It's just a big word for an angry post).

¤%&# League of Legends and #¤%& it's lame*** players :smallannoyed:

Hugz, anyone? :smallfrown:

Hey, it could be worse. A friend of mine is in a similar situation, but he lost a lot more Elo than you. He went from 1312 to ~850 in the space of a week because he had a leaver on his team every single game.

[Eldariel]

So I'm thinking of trying Miss Fortune. Do any of you have any build ideas?

Doran's Blade(s) [they improve your laning vastly so get as many as you need to win your lane, up to 3] into Infinity Edge with Berserker Greaves/Mercs depending on opposing team and the competency level of your tanks. Yes, MF is really that simple. The subsequent item should probably be Last Whisper in a large number of games (that is, when enemy team is building Armor) or a Bloodthirster but that already falls under the "adapt to opponents"-part.

Your core is basically Doran's into Infinity Edge. Then you get some combination of BTs, LW, Banshee's Veil, Guardian Angel, Madred's Bloodrazor, Phantom Dancer, and in general whatever suits the particular match (team compositions, player performance and such obviously affect the last items).

EDIT: Hell, for more ability-oriented style you can just build into BT over IE.

[Math_Mage]

Is this viable? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdZ62QRDCq8) If so, is anyone interested in doing it with me? I'm trying to get enough IP for Aniva, and so far my method has been "play only when the First Win of the Day bonus is acheivable so as not to get too much XP and be high-level when I first try her out".

Bot farming has been changed and made...well, not really viable. Which is all to the good, IMO, since IP farming is the most boring way to play the game and I don't think there should be an external reason to punish yourself with boring games.

The nerfs to the rest of the IP system, well, :smallannoyed:.

[term1nally s1ck]

I'd say Galio is still probably a better main tank than Cho'Gath though. His ult still wins teamfights. Just not as hard as he used to.

I recently figured out why chogath is so terrifyingly good.

A) If you have a great initiattor on your team, like Ashe or someone, or any ranged CC, rupture -> scream is a insanely powerful way to separate someone from the team for threat of instadeath.

B) If the ENEMY initiate, you can either shut down the intiation completely with silence, or you can pick half their team off with CC as they pile in. If their entire team are coming at yours, and you rupture the middle of them, then the 2-3 stragglers have to either back off, or get knockuped, then silenced, then feasted if they're squishy. Yeah, after a few seconds, they've dealt with that and have probably locked you down so you couldn't close on their team and eat them.....but in that time the other 2 people have been squashed by your team behind them. I played a game recently where the enemies had an amumu, and 15 kills on us. I got fat and sassy, and I literally blocked of their entire team from joining the fight when amumu initiated every single time, and he got taken out repeatedly before they could get past me to join the fight properly, and we just poked the towers down one by one, finally killing 4 people at their bottom inhib and ending the game.

[toasty]

terminally sick, trying to argue about galio with dog is like trying to tell Hotshot that Nidalee isn't a good champion. Whether or not its true doesn't matter, they will make it work, dammit!:smalltongue:

[Volug]

I think Hotshot put Nid in bot tier on his tier list...

... Just so people don't play her I think.

[Silverraptor]

I think Hotshot put Nid in bot tier on his tier list...

... Just so people don't play her I think.

Probably embarassed by all the bad Nid's I bet. Like when its free Kennen week and Dog see's all the bad kennens.:smallamused:

[term1nally s1ck]

I was objecting more to the idea that chogath wasn't a great main tank than the idea that galio was a good one. I know little about galio.

What I will say is that Galio has the best part-of-a-song ever in D-town.

Sadly, when we ran against the Demacia team, we wrecked them. Going 3-0-5 as Jungle Chogath in the first 12 minutes didn't help their cause, especially when I dropped 2 sets of 2 kills on the duo lane in 1 minute. When you're L3 and laning against 2 L6 champs, you get pwned.

[Prplcheez]

I'm seeing now how QWE spam is good with Sona. Only problem is that before you get a fairly stacked Archangel's, you run out of mana fast.

[toasty]

I'm seeing now how QWE spam is good with Sona. Only problem is that before you get a fairly stacked Archangel's, you run out of mana fast.

Run a AD Soraka on your team to feed you mana? :smallbiggrin:

[Qwertystop]

Bot farming has been changed and made...well, not really viable. Which is all to the good, IMO, since IP farming is the most boring way to play the game and I don't think there should be an external reason to punish yourself with boring games.

The nerfs to the rest of the IP system, well, :smallannoyed:.

Is there any fast way to get IP now that bot farming has been stopped? Everyone I want's too expensive to get in any reasonable amount of time while still keeping up-to-date on runes if I play normal matches.

[Reinboom]

I'm seeing now how QWE spam is good with Sona. Only problem is that before you get a fairly stacked Archangel's, you run out of mana fast.

My general play with Sona is as follows:
Meki Pendant + 2 Blue Pots

Support~ Support~ Support~ Harass~ Support~ Support~

First B usually happens when you can blow your ultimate finally in order for someone to gank your lane or something similar.
Get Boots + Fiendish Codex + Wards

Manage mana correctly. Don't randomly spam QWE QWE QWE.

Get Evil Tome. Get defensive items.
Win.

Spamming QWE over and over again is not that smart as Sona, really.
Instead, just watch what your current needed function is. In many cases, your aura is more important than your effects.

[Volatar]

Just played a pair of hilarious 10-man in-house games. We picked good characters, and built them with hilarious builds. All in the same voice chat channel.

It was non-stop hilarity.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/724/bestbuilds.png
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/5894/bestbuilds2.png

[Maeglin_Dubh]

No, that's not it; getting lucky with Alpha Strike is something that can speed up your jungle when you get lucky but with perfectly average play, you can still get it done.



For that jungle build; that's apparently the fastest you can do. As I said, you can just start that the small golems and be just fine.


Don't forget that you can just do early red and gank on level 2; Master Yi is very good at that.

So, start cloth/pots, alpha strike, golems?

It's mainly the early bit I'm fiddly with. Once I have a wriggles, I'm fine.

[Maxios]

I just signed up for this game :smallbiggrin:
My Forum name is Maxios
My Game Name is Maxios20

[Silverraptor]

Darn. So I guess Tank Twitch doesn't work?:smalltongue:

[Maxios]

The game just finished downloading :smallbiggrin:
Any advice for the newbie?

[Silverraptor]

The game just finished downloading :smallbiggrin:
Any advice for the newbie?

Do the tutorial, all of them. They really help.

[Eldariel]

So, start cloth/pots, alpha strike, golems?

It's mainly the early bit I'm fiddly with. Once I have a wriggles, I'm fine.

Well, duh, anybody can jungle after level 6 without really trying. Of course it's the early game that's tricksy. Yeah, Alpha Strike Golems Cloth Pot is a fairly safe opening. Red Elixir Pot is a supersafe version if you really doubt yourself but really, those 250 can be spent better on Master Yi. And Vampiric Scepter-start is super risky though it can be pulled off on Master Yi for a decent outcome, at least with Alpha Strike procs. Longsword + Pot is also somewhat doable but...

[Raistlin1040]

Oh my god so much carrying.

I jsut won a game as Kennen, going 8/10/5. I had a really bad mid game, but my late game was filled with three double kills on Morgana and Miss Fortune. Our team was carried by our 20/10/7 Annie and their team was carried by their 30/10/9 Twitch. Every teamfight became "FOCUS TWITCH OH GOD". He had bad positioning so I was able to QWE fast and stun him and then my team would put him out while we pushed. Annie was 2hitting most of their team with Stunbear Tibbers and Fireball. So ridiculous. I got so much gold too. Ended up with Swiftness Boots, Rylai's, Hourglass, Abyssal Scepter, and a Sunfire Cape with about 1000 left over. I was about to buy stuff when I was dead but we won.

[Darcand]

I just discovered LoL this week and I'm now obsessed. I love Sivir's bump and go style, and thought I would ask for build advice.

[Douglas]

Try asking in the main League of Legends discussion thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189950) here.

[Fjolnir]

I was just finishing my smurfing and had a question, what is a tier 3 hero?

[Dogmantra]

I was just finishing my smurfing and had a question, what is a tier 3 hero?

Either people who are on Tier 3 on a champion tier list, or they could be referring to price tiers, where tier 3 is 3150 IP.

[Math_Mage]

Is there any fast way to get IP now that bot farming has been stopped? Everyone I want's too expensive to get in any reasonable amount of time while still keeping up-to-date on runes if I play normal matches.

Runes aren't something you need to keep up to date with, really. It's important to have two pages, physical and magical (e.g. Apen marks, Dodge seals, *whatever* glyphs, Apen quints; and Mpen marks, mp5/lvl seals, CDR glyphs, and MS quints). Of secondary importance is picking up a jungler page and a manaless mage page. Everything else is numbers wanking, honestly. Only in rare cases will a specific page significantly boost your performance with any hero (mana runes on Ryze, maybe).


I was just finishing my smurfing and had a question, what is a tier 3 hero?

A champion. Someone decided that he's about average in their personal tier list and hence they refer to him as a tier 3 champion, but again, that's mostly fluff talk.

EDIT: Or the above. I completely forgot about price tiers.

[Croverus]

Can Urgot make a good jungle? I'm trying to get the hang of him. So far I'm decent at sowing terror in the early game thanks to how fast acid hunter works, but my aim with noxious charge could use some improvement. I've done ok as soloing mid with him, was curoius if he's any good in jungles.

[Fjolnir]

Any suggestions on how to build/play corki so he can actually survive a fight with the average paper bag?

I like him, he pushes like a boss, I just end up on the recieving end of too many beatings.

[Arbitrarity]

Urgot is not a jungler. He owns lanes. Use him there. His jungle is about as viable as Nasus. Technically possible, but a really bad idea. And requiring a very specific runepage.

Corki should be squishy. To survive fights with paper bags, you need to not let the bag hit you. Position far away, make liberal use of rockets, range, and Phosphorous bomb, Valkyrie away from approaching enemies. Watch some GeneralWiser (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Kci_8wZy0), since he records pro streams. It's a good source for watching high level gameplay, and the occasional trolling.

Hm. That may not be the best example video. It appears to consist of about 30 minutes of farming.
Which is what tends to happen.

[Math_Mage]

Can Urgot make a good jungle? I'm trying to get the hang of him. So far I'm decent at sowing terror in the early game thanks to how fast acid hunter works, but my aim with noxious charge could use some improvement. I've done ok as soloing mid with him, was curoius if he's any good in jungles.

Urgot is a terrifying laner. But the jungle doesn't care about zoning, which is Urgot's forte. Also, Urgot's pre-6 ganking is weak for a jungler. So no, he doesn't really make a good jungle.


Any suggestions on how to build/play corki so he can actually survive a fight with the average paper bag?

I like him, he pushes like a boss, I just end up on the recieving end of too many beatings.

Triforce + Banshee's Veil + good positioning. Don't enter fights with your Valkyrie-Gatling Gun until the major burst is past and CCs are down, if then.

[Heliomance]

How would you type "I don't speak Russian" without a Cyrillic font installed?
Ya nye gavaryu pa ruski.

To be honest though, if someone typed to you "ya nye gavaryu pa Angliskii" you'd probably get the gist. Nye is recognisably a negation and it doesn't take that much intuition to work out that "Angliskii" is English. Similarly "Ich sprache nicht Englisch" and "Je ne parle pas Anglais". I don't know how to say it in Spanish, but I'd probably understand it.

[Volatar]

Ya nye gavaryu pa ruski.

To be honest though, if someone typed to you "ya nye gavaryu pa Angliskii" you'd probably get the gist. Nye is recognisably a negation and it doesn't take that much intuition to work out that "Angliskii" is English. Similarly "Ich sprache nicht Englisch" and "Je ne parle pas Anglais". I don't know how to say it in Spanish, but I'd probably understand it.

I would never have figured out what those words meant. On the other hand, the fact that they respond in a language other than English sends the same message without needing to know the words.

[Brother Oni]

To be honest though, if someone typed to you "ya nye gavaryu pa Angliskii" you'd probably get the gist. Nye is recognisably a negation and it doesn't take that much intuition to work out that "Angliskii" is English. Similarly "Ich sprache nicht Englisch" and "Je ne parle pas Anglais". I don't know how to say it in Spanish, but I'd probably understand it.

I would, but then again I live in Europe where I have far more exposure to different languages, among other reasons.
I expect you live somewhere similarly cosmopolitan or have a background that has exposed you to a variety of languages.

The majority of Americans are... somewhat insular, to put it politely and beyond spanish at school, are unlikely to have much experience with foreign languages, as Volatar amply demonstrates (no offense intended).

This combined with the widespread distribution of English can sometimes leads to an unreasonable (in my opinon) expectation that everybody has a conversational level of English (although I admit that the British are equally guilty of this).

[Master_Rahl22]

No hablo Inglais <- I don't speak English in Spanish.

I'm gonna join with people who said that even typing anything at all in a language that is obviously not English will get the point across that you don't speak it, not that you are illiterate or ignoring your team or something.

[Eldariel]

Any suggestions on how to build/play corki so he can actually survive a fight with the average paper bag?

I like him, he pushes like a boss, I just end up on the recieving end of too many beatings.

Yeah, positioning is the key; it's also the hardest thing in the game to learn for carry play. You need to be able to unleash on the opponent while being protected by your own tanks.

I generally build him Manamune into Triforce (into Bloodthirsters/Last Whisper/defensive) though Doran's Blade into Triforce is equally viable. He's very similar to Ezreal, really. With Corki, you have two phases in combat; 1 - you poke with rockets at range. This is to soften opponents up, remove Banshee Veils and with sufficient damage, just make 'em bugger out. You get one rocket per 8 seconds so that's a good ratio to shoot them at; you want to have some left in the fight.

The second phase is the fight. Provided you get a decent engagement, you can fly in all guns blazing (literally; slam Gatling Gun on and learn to move yourself so that it's constantly aimed at the opponent, bomb and rocket them whenever those two are off CD and take an auto attack at every opportunity). If the initiation is good enough, you can use an offensive Valkyrie if you're slightly out of position. If you're at risk, you'll want to save Valkyrie for escape/repositioning for extended poking. Don't forget the DoT component of Valkyrie; it's not that useful that often but it's there and sometimes it actually makes a difference (especially when escaping with Valk and low HP opps chasing).

[Volatar]

The majority of Americans are... somewhat insular, to put it politely and beyond spanish at school, are unlikely to have much experience with foreign languages, as Volatar amply demonstrates (no offense intended).


No offense taken. I do not understand other languages by choice (I get confused trying to speak English as it is)

[Faulty]

Urgot is not a jungler. He owns lanes. Use him there. His jungle is about as viable as Nasus. Technically possible, but a really bad idea. And requiring a very specific runepage.

Corki should be squishy. To survive fights with paper bags, you need to not let the bag hit you. Position far away, make liberal use of rockets, range, and Phosphorous bomb, Valkyrie away from approaching enemies. Watch some GeneralWiser (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Kci_8wZy0), since he records pro streams. It's a good source for watching high level gameplay, and the occasional trolling.

Hm. That may not be the best example video. It appears to consist of about 30 minutes of farming.
Which is what tends to happen.

I think Corki skill is influenced by general carry skill, so as you get better as carries has a group, you'll do better as Corki. Corki's rockets give him really long range, so if things are dangerous it's not unreasonable to launch them into fights. I also suggest running Ghost or Flash + Cleanse. It'll bump up your survivability by quite a bit.

[Prplcheez]

I've seen people build Frozen Mallet on Corki. It seems at least slightly viable, if not optimal.

I'm tempted to do a joke Kog'maw guide, but I'm lazy.

[Eldariel]

I've seen people build Frozen Mallet on Corki. It seems at least slightly viable, if not optimal.

I lost a ranked game because our carry rushed Frozen Mallet. This almost made me quit playing Janna in Ranked, since the support can't do a thing if your carry isn't capable of dealing serious damage (even with my Shield). Please don't do it, at least if trying to win.

At least not until you have two-three serious damage items. Then you can get your defensive stuff just fine, though Banshee Veil is far superior to Frozen Mallet on ranged carries most of the time. What kills you is getting caught in CC, not incremental damage.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Especially now that it's less effective on ranged characters.

[Faulty]

Carries should start by building damage or they're going to be useless as crap. Carries survivability comes from good positioning, proper use of escape abilities and summoner spells, and hopefully good tanks and supports. For Corki I like:

Sapphire + 2 pots
Tear -> Manamune
Ruby -> Phage
Sapphire -> Sheen
Zeal -> Triforce
Banshee's
Cleaver

[Dogmantra]

Can Urgot make a good jungle? I'm trying to get the hang of him. So far I'm decent at sowing terror in the early game thanks to how fast acid hunter works, but my aim with noxious charge could use some improvement. I've done ok as soloing mid with him, was curoius if he's any good in jungles.
He is actually pretty darn good at clearing minions in the jungle. He can gank without Red Buff, and since he's a high damage physical attacker who doesn't rely on attack speed, he's one of the few guys who can still solo dragon pretty early. He's got two ways of increasing his attack damage (Acid Hunter and the armour reduction on Noxian Charge) AND a shield, which are all marks of a good jungler. However, it's about as intelligent to put Urgot in the jungle as it is Karthus. Now I'm not saying that's a bad thing, Karthus is a hilarious (and fun) jungler. I'm just saying that they're completely lane dominant.


Banshee Veil is far superior to Frozen Mallet on ranged carries most of the time. What kills you is getting caught in CC, not incremental damage.
This is why I pretty much always seem to get a Quicksilver Sash on Ez now, I dislike getting caught in multiple CCs, and BV doesn't do anything to help.

[Eldariel]

This is why I pretty much always seem to get a Quicksilver Sash on Ez now, I dislike getting caught in multiple CCs, and BV doesn't do anything to help.

I often find it quite easy to position yourself so as to not get caught in CC with any TP-character but there's always that one blinking assassin coming after you, or the Ashe-arrow or whatever for which Banshee really works nicely. Of course, QSS is an excellent option too.

[Faulty]

I tend to get Cleanse on carries with a blink, is the thing, so I can generally eschew QSS or Merc's.

[Prplcheez]

I lost a ranked game because our carry rushed Frozen Mallet. This almost made me quit playing Janna in Ranked, since the support can't do a thing if your carry isn't capable of dealing serious damage (even with my Shield). Please don't do it, at least if trying to win.

At least not until you have two-three serious damage items. Then you can get your defensive stuff just fine, though Banshee Veil is far superior to Frozen Mallet on ranged carries most of the time. What kills you is getting caught in CC, not incremental damage.

Well I wasn't saying to rush it, I was just saying it seems like a semi-not-terrible choice for the later game.

[Adumbration]

I just had the weirdest ranked game. I really should've screenshotted the score board. :smallsigh: Final total score was 12 kills for our team, 1 for them. I checked everyone's ELO afterwards, and the lowest was 1453 (me), with just about everyone else in the 1500 bracket.

They had Teemo, Mordekaiser, Kayle, Warwick and Shen. We had Janna (me), Malzahar (who got 9 kills), Ashe, jungle Amumu and a champ I can't remember. Amumu failed the early jungle when Malzahar didn't pull the blue golem, but to my surprise we kept catching them unawares. I can't remember them having any teamplay, and the ww kept feeding like mad. First inhibitor at 18 minutes, finish at about 22.

I was like okay, so this is middle-to-high ELO ranked gaming.

[Inhuman Bot]

I was like okay, so this is middle-to-high ELO ranked gaming.

League of Legends has a closely guarded secret I will let you in on.

There's basically no difference between 500 and 2500 ELO.

[Eldariel]

League of Legends has a closely guarded secret I will let you in on.

There's basically no difference between 500 and 2500 ELO.

There is, it's just in probabilities, not absolutes.

[Neftren]

League of Legends has a closely guarded secret I will let you in on.

There's basically no difference between 500 and 2500 ELO.

Well, I'm thinking here... take two groups of players. The first 5v5 set is at 1000 ELO and the second set is at 2000 ELO. The 5v5 1000 ELO (or if 1000 is too low, say, 1500 -- the number is irrelevant) will probably play similarly to the 2000 ELO 5v5, no? What seems to matter is relative skill level. I can't really think of how I want to say this just yet. I'll post again later.

[Inhuman Bot]

Well, I'm thinking here... take two groups of players. The first 5v5 set is at 1000 ELO and the second set is at 2000 ELO. The 5v5 1000 ELO (or if 1000 is too low, say, 1500 -- the number is irrelevant) will probably play similarly to the 2000 ELO 5v5, no? What seems to matter is relative skill level. I can't really think of how I want to say this just yet. I'll post again later.

I'm saying that, going from Ghetto Fabulous' games, you will still have feeding, blaming, tears, poor builds, etc no matter where you are.

Actually, except for the last one, there's probably more of that in higher ELOs.

[Volatar]

League of Legends has a closely guarded secret I will let you in on.

There's basically no difference between 500 and 2500 ELO.

There is actually one difference:

The percentage of games with leavers is much, much greater at sub 1k Elo. That "3% of ranked games" with a leaver? They are all at the low end of Elo

[Croverus]

Looking for an optimal build for Urgot. I usually get killed for one of 3 reasons:

1) Get ganked by a fast melee champ and can't run away, flash only gets me so far
2) 2:1 or more in my lane and no one will come to help.
3) I try helping someone and they waste it, getting me killed in the process.

I'm just wodering which type of builds are best? Suggested items for Urgot seem good but I tend to prefer the boots with CD reduc or AS bonus over the suggested Mag resist boots. I always get 2 of his suggested weapons, the Beater and Mas. Are there better items to replace these?

[toasty]

I'm saying that, going from Ghetto Fabulous' games, you will still have feeding, blaming, tears, poor builds, etc no matter where you are.

Actually, except for the last one, there's probably more of that in higher ELOs.


This isn't entirely true. I've seen more advanced tactics and better 1-on-1 play at higher elos. Not saying that there aren't exceptions, but it is a fact.

[Dogmantra]

I'm just wodering which type of builds are best? Suggested items for Urgot seem good but I tend to prefer the boots with CD reduc or AS bonus over the suggested Mag resist boots. I always get 2 of his suggested weapons, the Beater and Mas. Are there better items to replace these?

My core is normally Manamune/Ghostblade, with Stompers (CDR boots). Then build tanky.

[Eldariel]

Lol. Played a ranked game where 4th pick was just "I will play Veigar no matter what you pick" and last pick promised to feed. I wasn't expecting much of the game. 20 mins in:
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/4702/failfeed.png

That Jarvan sucks at feeding.

[Ziren]

I just finished an epic match as Shen:

http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/7972/epiclolmatch.png (http://img848.imageshack.us/i/epiclolmatch.png/)

The only weak link on our team was our Renekton, who often wandered off on his own and pushed lanes a lot too far when half the enemy team was missing.

[Inhuman Bot]

Lol. Played a ranked game where 4th pick was just "I will play Veigar no matter what you pick" and last pick promised to feed. I wasn't expecting much of the game. 20 mins in:
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/4702/failfeed.png

That Jarvan sucks at feeding.

Speaking of Jarvan, I just noticed I have a 100% Win Ratio with him in ranked. :smalltongue:

[Flechair]

That Jarvan sucks at feeding.

He sure does. Maybe he's foreign and meant to say "I'm going to get fed." :smallamused:


I had an epic game as shen

I find it amusing to read the comments in German and see that the enemy Olaf was calling Garen bad for building DPS.


EDIT: Oh god I accidentally hit Quote not Edit. Had to delete a double post. :smallredface:

[Spartacus]

I've been wondering for a while...

Of the 4 names on my team off to the right, why is one of them me?

Also, Eldariel, that's the first game I can think of in a while where you weren't with DarwinSomethingSomething. In fact, I thought for a few games that's who you were, going just by your screenshots.

[Qwertystop]

Do IP bot farming tactics work in normal games? Specifically, is it viable to have everyone on a team play a pusher and push mid, then wait around until whatever the mark is for good IP?

[Spartacus]

So you're going to pushpushpush and then just...Stop? I don't really understand, to be honest.

Also, humans actually gang up and stick together sometimes. Not so with bots.

[Astrella]

Ehm, it really doesn't make a difference. With some deviation, ip gain basically comes down now to "played time = ip gained", so drawing out games really isn't that profitable.

(And there's always the risk of people coming back and taking your victory away from you.)

[Volatar]

Do IP bot farming tactics work in normal games? Specifically, is it viable to have everyone on a team play a pusher and push mid, then wait around until whatever the mark is for good IP?

No. They will stick 3 mid and hold you off just fine and have their other two people push the other two lanes until you give up and play the game. :smallwink:

[Qwertystop]

So there is now no way at all to farm IP effectively besides just playing lots of normal matches?

[Volatar]

So there is now no way at all to farm IP effectively besides just playing lots of normal matches?

Yep. Riot nerfed ip farming into nonexistence.

[Qwertystop]

Yep. Riot nerfed ip farming into nonexistence.

Is the per-day first-win IP bonus enough that playing only when it is available is worth it, to get as much IP/match as possible, or is it better just to play as much as you can?

[Volatar]

Is the per-day first-win IP bonus enough that playing only when it is available is worth it, to get as much IP/match as possible, or is it better just to play as much as you can?

The latter.